Removing auto gratuities

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I expect Solent Richard was in his usual Cunard mode ;) We seasoned Cunaders are programmed into, 'Social Hostess' or only occasionally Social Host.:D

We have cruised a lot and always auto tip but would be interesting to hear a more detailed explanation how it works. A TV documentary a few years back suggested that a cruise ship worker earned say 850 dollar but the auto tip was used to make up this amount and if not enough tip was collected the company would make up the difference. I would like to think that the fantastic boys and girls got the tip over and above their basic salary but the documentary suggested that was not the case. Worth noting that the documentary was not about Cunard but another major cruise line.

Always an emotive subject - in an ideal world I would like the cruise companies to scrap auto gratuities and charge fares that ensure all crew are paid fairly.......

If this were the case I wouldn't be able to afford to cruise as often as I do.......it could have a huge impact on the demographic of the crew....., the number of passengers........it would be very different I think. Better for some but not for others?

So I carry on cruising , always feeling very grateful I can and try to do what I feel is right as I go along

Always an emotive subject - in an ideal world I would like the cruise companies to scrap auto gratuities and charge fares that ensure all crew are paid fairly....... If this were the case I wouldn't be able to afford to cruise as often as I do.......it could have a huge impact on the demographic of the crew....., the number of passengers........it would be very different I think. Better for some but not for others? So I carry on cruising , always feeling very grateful I can and try to do what I feel is right as I go along

You pay your fare, you leave the auto-tip in place (and calculate it as part of the cost of the cruise, as I do), and tip in person on top of the auto-tip when and where you feel it is right to do so (as do I).

Until the system changes as you wish, I'm not sure you can do any more.

Best wishes to you.

Always an emotive subject - in an ideal world I would like the cruise companies to scrap auto gratuities and charge fares that ensure all crew are paid fairly.......

 

If this were the case I wouldn't be able to afford to cruise as often as I do.......it could have a huge impact on the demographic of the crew....., the number of passengers........it would be very different I think. Better for some but not for others?

 

So I carry on cruising , always feeling very grateful I can and try to do what I feel is right as I go along

In many discussions there is (justifiably) talk of fairness to the crew in payment by the auto gratuity system. To me, what is potentially unfair, is that the customer has the choice to cancel the auto gratuity and potentially not tip at all. So would it not be TOTAL fairness for ALL parties to have the gratuity included in the fare price (even show it separately perhaps) and market this approach in a similar POSITIVE manner as some other cruise companies (e.g. Silversea). Marketed correctly I suggest it would not be detrimental to Cunard filling the ships.

Always an emotive subject - in an ideal world I would like the cruise companies to scrap auto gratuities and charge fares that ensure all crew are paid fairly.......

 

If this were the case I wouldn't be able to afford to cruise as often as I do.......it could have a huge impact on the demographic of the crew....., the number of passengers........it would be very different I think. Better for some but not for others?

 

So I carry on cruising , always feeling very grateful I can and try to do what I feel is right as I go along

It wouldn't affect the affordability, you would pay what you do now plus the auto tip that you wouldn't pay aboard. In fact the total take would be higher because everyone would pay.

We can only hope.

David.

In many discussions there is (justifiably) talk of fairness to the crew in payment by the auto gratuity system. To me, what is potentially unfair, is that the customer has the choice to cancel the auto gratuity and potentially not tip at all. So would it not be TOTAL fairness for ALL parties to have the gratuity included in the fare price (even show it separately perhaps) and market this approach in a similar POSITIVE manner as some other cruise companies (e.g. Silversea). Marketed correctly I suggest it would not be detrimental to Cunard filling the ships.

Good morning Trevor.

While I see your comment as admirable pragmatism dictates it ain't going to happen.

There are too many lines scrambling for that final percentage of customers to fill their ships to get any consensus.

And of course, any collusion to fix a rate would have the EU fly into apoplexy.

Hi everyone. Just have to add another comment about removing the auto gratuities which are added onto our on board charges. We were on the QM World cruise to Sydney this year and made friends with a group of Aussies who boarded the ship during the Valparaiso to Australia sector. They had all booked fantastically cheap deals with their travel agents (much cheaper than we had paid Cunard for that sector) which included 2 welcome bottles of VC champagne in their cabins on arrival. Their fares also stated that they didn't have to pay any of the auto gratuities as these were included in the fare! Why doesn't Cunard offer a 'gratuities paid' deal to their UK and American passengers, but offers this in fare savers to their customers on the other side of the world?

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Hi everyone. Just have to add another comment about removing the auto gratuities which are added onto our on board charges. We were on the QM World cruise to Sydney this year and made friends with a group of Aussies who boarded the ship during the Valparaiso to Australia sector. They had all booked fantastically cheap deals with their travel agents (much cheaper than we had paid Cunard for that sector) which included 2 welcome bottles of VC champagne in their cabins on arrival. Their fares also stated that they didn't have to pay any of the auto gratuities as these were included in the fare! Why doesn't Cunard offer a 'gratuities paid' deal to their UK and American passengers, but offers this in fare savers to their customers on the other side of the world?

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In the Australian and New Zealand markets Cunard (and other lines) has to subsidize the gratuity pool. The percentage of passengers there who remove all gratuities is so high the crew would otherwise strike or quit. While this means a good deal for passengers in those markets it also removes much of the profitability from these itineraries. (Cunard didn't repeat a circumnavigation around Australia.)

Great bargains and superior services and amenities don't co-exist for very long. Many passengers demand lower fares and then complain about the reduced services and amenities that they get with lower fares. Why is the concept of "value for value" so difficult to understand?

We have cruised a lot and always auto tip but would be interesting to hear a more detailed explanation how it works. A TV documentary a few years back suggested that a cruise ship worker earned say 850 dollar but the auto tip was used to make up this amount and if not enough tip was collected the company would make up the difference. I would like to think that the fantastic boys and girls got the tip over and above their basic salary but the documentary suggested that was not the case. Worth noting that the documentary was not about Cunard but another major cruise line.

An industry insider who is a member here, BruceMuzz, outlined that it works like this:

"All the major mass market cruise lines handle gratuities in just about the same way. There are some minor variations, but essentially it works like this: At the beginning of the cruise, the number of guests onboard is posted in crew areas.

During the cruise, the names and cabin numbers of any guests who refuse the auto-tip are posted - as well as the reasons given by the guests.

At the end of the cruise, the number of cabins who tipped, the amount they each tipped, and the total dollar amount in the tip pool is posted.

Any additional tips or funds received for the tip pool are also posted.

Finally, a list of the actual dollars from the tipping pool, received by each crewmember is posted.

The entire process is very transparent. The crew is very careful to ensure that all the numbers add up correctly..."

Thanks BlueRiband, that makes sense. Really annoying for us Brits who pay much more for our fares and auto gratuities and are on the same sectors. I must say, that the Cunard staff are always so polite and friendly to everyone despite not getting their tips from some of these customers sailing with them. We do know that in NZ and Australia they don't tip at all! We found this out from our NZ and Aussie relatives and friends, but I think their minimum wage is much higher than ours.

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Why doesn't Cunard offer a 'gratuities paid' deal to their UK and American passengers, but offers this in fare savers to their customers on the other side of the world?]

... Great bargains and superior services and amenities don't co-exist for very long. Many passengers demand lower fares and then complain about the reduced services and amenities that they get with lower fares. Why is the concept of "value for value" so difficult to understand?

Cunard regularly has "gratuities paid" offers in the US market.

Yes. Just a couple of weeks ago on the CC British Isles forum there was an advertisement on the right hand side. I made a note of what it said:

Free upgrade

Free gratuities

$150 reduced deposit.

When I clicked on the advert it just took me to the UK Cunard website where there were none of these offers.

I've never seen gratuities paid advertised on the UK website. Maybe some UK agents offer this, but I don't know of any.

An industry insider who is a member here, BruceMuzz, outlined that it works like this:

 

"All the major mass market cruise lines handle gratuities in just about the same way.

During the cruise, the names and cabin numbers of any guests who refuse the auto-tip are posted - as well as the reasons given by the guests.

I have said it before - this feels as if it defies data protection.

I have said it before - this feels as if it defies data protection.

BruceMuzz has been active on the boards these last few days. While we don't have private messaging here you might ask him yourself - there is a hot tipping thread over in the "Ask a Cruise Question" section where he made some comments.

I have nothing against the auto tip system in principle, fair to service staff. However what irks me is that one is paying for the service, i.e. $13 per diem, whatever, before one receives the service, know what I mean? On Princess you can pay your auto tips, or as I call it, 'automatic wage subsidy - for that is what it is !! Pre cruise via your cruise personaliser, now that is way before you receive your service !!

At the end of the day the Cruise Lines don't want to pay all the service crew wages out of their profits, they want the pax to pay part thereof via a wage subsidy - auto tips.

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Pure Gold my Host.

In the Australian and New Zealand markets Cunard (and other lines) has to subsidize the gratuity pool. The percentage of passengers there who remove all gratuities is so high the crew would otherwise strike or quit. While this means a good deal for passengers in those markets it also removes much of the profitability from these itineraries. (Cunard didn't repeat a circumnavigation around Australia.)

 

Great bargains and superior services and amenities don't co-exist for very long. Many passengers demand lower fares and then complain about the reduced services and amenities that they get with lower fares. Why is the concept of "value for value" so difficult to understand?

This isn't necessarily the case. Australian cruisers often pay higher fares than those overseas, although great deals can be had. For example, the Australia segments for the WC each year are often very expensive - Cunard knows Australians are willing (and able) to pay more for perceived luxury (Cunard is held above the rest down here, even though there are more luxurious cruises on boutique lines).

I know that Princess cruises based in Australian waters incorporate the gratuity into the original fare. Given that tipping is culturally anathema to Australians, it does not surprise me that Cunard and other lines may choose to dispense with gratuities or build them into the original pricing. However, I have never experienced a free gratuity package in my years of cruising (I know they exist).

With respect to the previous question about why U.K. and US passengers can't get auto gratuities (US passengers seem to have access to this), there are different promotions and pricing options available to those North that is Southern Hemisphere denizens do not see. For example the Cunard Saver/Fare/Flight included is not available to Australian bookers. Also, some cruises out of Southampton are also unavailable to book unless from U.K., Europe, or the US.

With respect to the previous question about why U.K. and US passengers can't get auto gratuities (US passengers seem to have access to this), there are different promotions and pricing options available to those North that is Southern Hemisphere denizens do not see. For example the Cunard Saver/Fare/Flight included is not available to Australian bookers

The trouble with Saver fares is you don’t get to choose your cabin number and you might not get the seating you want in Britannia. And with the late Saver you can’t even use any free OBC from a Future Cruise Deposit.

In the US they can rebook/transfer to a reduced fare and still keep their cabin number.

I would rather there was just one fare all the time priced somewhere between the Cunard Fare and Early Saver and let it be on a 'first come better served' basis and we can all choose our cabin numbers.

On popular cruises, you can end up paying more on one of the saver fares than if you booked the full fare early on.

The trouble with Saver fares is you don’t get to choose your cabin number and you might not get the seating you want in Britannia. And with the late Saver you can’t even use any free OBC from a Future Cruise Deposit.

In the US they can rebook/transfer to a reduced fare and still keep their cabin number.

 

I would rather there was just one fare all the time priced somewhere between the Cunard Fare and Early Saver and let it be on a 'first come better served' basis and we can all choose our cabin numbers.

 

On popular cruises, you can end up paying more on one of the saver fares than if you booked the full fare early on.

I understand what you're saying, but the existing fare types wouldn't exist if they didn't deliver for the line.

From reading previous threads and hearing from UK table mates on past cruises, there are many happy Cunard Saver bookers just as there are many who prefer to book early and secure a cabin/table at dinner.

Being unable to choose a cabin is an issue that can even affect reasonably early bookers if a cruise itinerary and/or cabin grade proves popular. I've had a few guarantee bookings despite putting down a deposit early on. Also, OBC isn't always available for all bookings (not that I expect to get it every time - I see it as a bonus).

Ultimately, I ascribe to the philosophy of being satisfied with my choice since I booked knowing the price for what it is and the type of cabin I'm happy as at minimum. If I wasn't okay with paying the price promoted then I wouldn't have booked in the first place :)

An industry insider who is a member here, BruceMuzz, outlined that it works like this:

 

"All the major mass market cruise lines handle gratuities in just about the same way. There are some minor variations, but essentially it works like this: At the beginning of the cruise, the number of guests onboard is posted in crew areas.

During the cruise, the names and cabin numbers of any guests who refuse the auto-tip are posted - as well as the reasons given by the guests.

At the end of the cruise, the number of cabins who tipped, the amount they each tipped, and the total dollar amount in the tip pool is posted.

Any additional tips or funds received for the tip pool are also posted.

Finally, a list of the actual dollars from the tipping pool, received by each crewmember is posted.

The entire process is very transparent. The crew is very careful to ensure that all the numbers add up correctly..."

It would be a bit more transparent if it was posted on the pursers front desk.

David.

It would be a bit more transparent if it was posted on the pursers front desk.

 

David.

They could publish 'the hit list' in the ship's daily newspaper, lol.

Of course service crew are informed re those who don't pay their auto tips, so as they comply with policy and hand their cash tips in, for fear of termination of employment.

Some first-timers - unaware of how the ship board gratuity system works - may believe that they are doing their steward and waiters a favor by tipping them directly. However what really gets me are those who know full well how the system works become experts on Webster's dictionary and parse the meaning of "gratuity", "tip", and "discretionary" to justify removing them.

In my experience, the waiters and stewards seem to near leap for joy when handed cash on Cunard so I do not think they turn it in or are punished in any way. On the other hand they do not seem to care or know as to what's going on with the auto tip.

An industry insider who is a member here, BruceMuzz, outlined that it works like this:

 

"At the beginning of the cruise, the number of guests onboard is posted in crew areas.

During the cruise, the names and cabin numbers of any guests who refuse the auto-tip are posted - as well as the reasons given by the guests.

This scare tactic anecdote by "a self described insider" is not true because a few crew members would almost certainly retaliate on passengers who remove the auto tip for whatever reasons. Such a policy would surely invite problems and liability for the line as well as incense passengers.