Jump to content

Passports, get them ordered now


Anthomaniac
 Share

Recommended Posts

Seems I read recently that a number of States (9 maybe) don't have driver licenses that meet the Federal ID requirements for domestic air travel starting in 2018.

 

We've been using our passports for even domestic travel for a couple of years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO, most people in the U.S. would vote to require passports for everyone arriving in the U.S. While they can still be counterfeit, it is more difficult to counterfeit a passport than a Drivers' License. Also, there are different styles of Drivers' Licenses (one style for every state) which makes recognition challenging.

 

As many of you know, when you enter some countries, you receive a stamped piece of paper (entry card) that you must have when you depart the country. This is how they track anyone trying to stay in the country illegally.

 

In any case, I think that we should all have passports (and we do live in a state where we will not be able to board a plane without one in the not so distant future - regardless of the destination).

 

If/when new laws go into effect, IMO, it is much better to have the passport than trying to obtain one when hundreds of thousands of other people are applying at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO, most people in the U.S. would vote to require passports for everyone arriving in the U.S. While they can still be counterfeit, it is more difficult to counterfeit a passport than a Drivers' License. Also, there are different styles of Drivers' Licenses (one style for every state) which makes recognition challenging.

 

As many of you know, when you enter some countries, you receive a stamped piece of paper (entry card) that you must have when you depart the country. This is how they track anyone trying to stay in the country illegally.

 

In any case, I think that we should all have passports (and we do live in a state where we will not be able to board a plane without one in the not so distant future - regardless of the destination).

 

If/when new laws go into effect, IMO, it is much better to have the passport than trying to obtain one when hundreds of thousands of other people are applying at the same time.

 

The law already does require passports for non-US and US citizens arriving by land or air and has very few exceptions (such as allowing the use of passport cards, EDLs, Nexus cards, etc. and land and sea ports of entry). As stated a US citizen on a closed loop cruise presents a low risk to the National Security- the cruise lines do a great job of making sure only passengers come back with the ship and the passengers are vetted during the cruise (US citizen and non-citizen alike) so if there are any issues they will be addressed upon the ship's return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Those regulations came from enabling legislation though and have the force of law. Current President may try to modify the regs, he may not. Only time will tell. I'm not really going to let all that he might do dictate my day to day actions.

 

With the current administration's attitude towards law and order, we might get closer to having to carry our passports at all times and occasionally being stopped to "show your papers." If you scoff at this, consider that during WWI and II, several countries who had relatively good freedom to move around like we do now were changed to a police state environment where everyone needed to be able prove they were legal residents at any time. Considering the incendiary rhetoric of the new president during and after this election, I would not be surprised if we get to that point in the next four years. I certainly hope not. But considering how unorthodox this election was, all bets are off for what the future will bring.

Edited by SantaFeFan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course the turnaround time now for passports is not long..... but what would happen if passports were required for all flights or if the "closed loop" cruises were no longer exempt? This is why I am so strongly in favor of getting passports now. As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/drivers-licenses-new-york-domestic-flight-real-id

 

In terms of closed loop exemptions - I have been against this for a long time. If you or a family member get sick -- if someone at home passes away or there is some other emergency, the delays in getting home are simply not worth it. Instead of getting off the ship and to the airport to fly home, you end up spending time at a U.S. Embassy..... just too big a risk IMO.

 

And here are the nine states that will require more than a drivers' license to board planes as of next year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/no-drivers-license-tsa-rule

Edited by Travelcat2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

.... As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/drivers-licenses-new-york-domestic-flight-real-id

 

And here are the nine states that will require more than a drivers' license to board planes as of next year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/no-drivers-license-tsa-rule

 

You need to take another look at the links you provide. It isn't the states that are requiring additional identification. It is the federal government, and this only because the driver's licenses in these states do not meet federal standards for identification documents. These states have had 11 years to comply. Can't imagine why they haven't bothered. If they issued compliant driver's licenses, then the passport requirement would go away, just like in most of the states - the ones who take proof of identification seriously.

 

Quoted from the very article you linked to:

 

"The IDs from these nine states do not meet the federal government’s minimum security standards. And, according to the REAL ID Act of 2005, federal agencies (like the TSA) are prohibited from “accepting for certain purposes driver’s licenses and identification cards from states not meeting the Act’s minimum standards.”

 

"In order for states to pass the government’s security standards, they must verify every ID applicant’s identity, put anti-counterfeit technology in the production of the card and conduct background checks on those who issue driver’s licenses."

Edited by sloopsailor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the current administration's attitude towards law and order, we might get closer to having to carry our passports at all times and occasionally being stopped to "show your papers." If you scoff at this, consider that during WWI and II, several countries who had relatively good freedom to move around like we do now were changed to a police state environment where everyone needed to be able prove they were legal residents at any time. Considering the incendiary rhetoric of the new president during and after this election, I would not be surprised if we get to that point in the next four years. I certainly hope not. But considering how unorthodox this election was, all bets are off for what the future will bring.

 

I suppose anything is possible, but I'll wait and see rather than fear the worst to that extreme.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course the turnaround time now for passports is not long..... but what would happen if passports were required for all flights or if the "closed loop" cruises were no longer exempt? This is why I am so strongly in favor of getting passports now. As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/drivers-licenses-new-york-domestic-flight-real-id

 

In terms of closed loop exemptions - I have been against this for a long time. If you or a family member get sick -- if someone at home passes away or there is some other emergency, the delays in getting home are simply not worth it. Instead of getting off the ship and to the airport to fly home, you end up spending time at a U.S. Embassy..... just too big a risk IMO.

 

And here are the nine states that will require more than a drivers' license to board planes as of next year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/no-drivers-license-tsa-rule

 

We'll see what happens with those in the states that aren't REAL ID compliant, but 41 states are. Even if they did need an ID other than their drivers license to fly they don't have to jump to a full passport book, they could obtain a passport card for that purpose.

 

And as far as closed loop travel goes it is an individual decision, one that doesn't affect you at all, so if the person does make the wrong choice they have a little more hassle to face in getting home. Millions of people travel on closed loop cruises every year without any issues at all, so it just isn't that risky.

 

Back when the law changed requiring passports many people panicked and got passports, only to find out once the dust settled that they didn't really need them at all for the type of travel they do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/drivers-licenses-new-york-domestic-flight-real-id/QUOTE]

Can you PLEASE use updated facts? An article from 2015, especially one dealing with government regulations is not accurate. Up to date information: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs

Starting January 22, 2018, passengers who have driver’s licenses issued by a state that is not yet compliant with REAL ID and that has not received an extension will need to show an alternative form of acceptable identification for domestic air travel.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the current administration's attitude towards law and order, we might get closer to having to carry our passports at all times and occasionally being stopped to "show your papers." If you scoff at this, consider that during WWI and II, several countries who had relatively good freedom to move around like we do now were changed to a police state environment where everyone needed to be able prove they were legal residents at any time. Considering the incendiary rhetoric of the new president during and after this election, I would not be surprised if we get to that point in the next four years. I certainly hope not. But considering how unorthodox this election was, all bets are off for what the future will bring.

 

 

Make passports great again!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some states have laws or constitutional clauses that are more respective of citizens' privacy than the US Constitution.

 

What? Requiring an ID document to actually represent the person who is carrying it is anti-privacy? :confused::confused:

Edited by sloopsailor
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do understand that the nine states are not compliant and could change their Drivers' Licenses to become so but this does not change the issue of the ease of counterfeiting them. I was a Notary Public and had people present me with Drivers' Licenses from different states. Trying to determine their authenticity was not always easy. In any case, I strongly believe that anyone entering the U.S. should have a passport - not as concerned about flying within the U.S. (although based on history, I probably should be).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do understand that the nine states are not compliant and could change their Drivers' Licenses to become so but this does not change the issue of the ease of counterfeiting them. I was a Notary Public and had people present me with Drivers' Licenses from different states. Trying to determine their authenticity was not always easy. In any case, I strongly believe that anyone entering the U.S. should have a passport - not as concerned about flying within the U.S. (although based on history, I probably should be).

 

DHS has access to databases that you didn't as a notary and all passengers on a closed loop cruise are run through those databases while the cruise is ongoing. A US citizen having a passport on a closed loop cruise would do nothing to increase the national security since US citizens on a closed loop cruise present a low risk to the National Security to begin with. Making a phony drivers license isn't as easy as many think it is and making one that will stand up to the scrutiny of a trained law enforcement professional is even harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DHS has access to databases that you didn't as a notary and all passengers on a closed loop cruise are run through those databases while the cruise is ongoing. A US citizen having a passport on a closed loop cruise would do nothing to increase the national security since US citizens on a closed loop cruise present a low risk to the National Security to begin with. Making a phony drivers license isn't as easy as many think it is and making one that will stand up to the scrutiny of a trained law enforcement professional is even harder.

 

Interesting information! I still don't understand the rationale in exempting any person (or cruise) from requiring passports. IMO, if you travel outside of the U.S., a passport should be required

 

With the thousands of passengers leaving the country on closed loop cruises every year, it would be interesting to know how many had to return to the U.S. via plane that did not have a passport. This obviously requires more work on the part of the U.S. Embassy, the cruise ship and perhaps even the airlines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting information! I still don't understand the rationale in exempting any person (or cruise) from requiring passports. IMO, if you travel outside of the U.S., a passport should be required

 

With the thousands of passengers leaving the country on closed loop cruises every year, it would be interesting to know how many had to return to the U.S. via plane that did not have a passport. This obviously requires more work on the part of the U.S. Embassy, the cruise ship and perhaps even the airlines.

 

The reason for requiring passports is to prevent someone from sneaking into the country in order to harm the country. Who is going to sneak into the country just to sneak out of the country so they can sneak into the country again 7 days later? That's what would have to happen in order for them to embark on a closed loop cruise. I doubt that anyone sneaking into the country is all that worried about leaving in order to take a vacation;). As I point out on another thread I don't think that those sneaking into the country would do so via a closed loop cruise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is about getting your passport as soon as you can. I agree with this. If what I suspect happens (everyone needing a passport to enter the U.S.), I hope that this thread will be remembered!

 

That's the rub- the law has always required passports. This is pointed out in the DHS regulations that give us the closed loop cruise exception (plus about 11 other exceptions). Now, it is possible that some exceptions may be done away with, but if I didn't have a passport I wouldn't be rushing out to get one just because that might happen. I currently use an EDL to cross the border that is 8 miles from my front door, are you suggesting that should no longer be valid?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the rub- the law has always required passports. This is pointed out in the DHS regulations that give us the closed loop cruise exception (plus about 11 other exceptions). Now, it is possible that some exceptions may be done away with, but if I didn't have a passport I wouldn't be rushing out to get one just because that might happen. I currently use an EDL to cross the border that is 8 miles from my front door, are you suggesting that should no longer be valid?

 

Not sure what a "EDL" is. However, most cards (like NEXUS) that gets people across the Canadian border faster have had background checks (every 5 years in the case of NEXUS). If you do anything wrong (even carrying merchandise across the border for someone else - something seemingly innocent) you lose the card forever. If are arrested - even for misdemeanor, it can be taken away forever. IMO, people carrying these cards are less of a risk than people that carry only passports.

 

Having said that, this thread is a good wake-up call for people. Whether or not they decide to get a passport is up to them. Posters are only here to give opinions, suggestions and to provide information about their personal experiences. I think that this has been done quite well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure what a "EDL" is. However, most cards (like NEXUS) that gets people across the Canadian border faster have had background checks (every 5 years in the case of NEXUS). If you do anything wrong (even carrying merchandise across the border for someone else - something seemingly innocent) you lose the card forever. If are arrested - even for misdemeanor, it can be taken away forever. IMO, people carrying these cards are less of a risk than people that carry only passports.

 

Having said that, this thread is a good wake-up call for people. Whether or not they decide to get a passport is up to them. Posters are only here to give opinions, suggestions and to provide information about their personal experiences. I think that this has been done quite well.

 

Enhanced Drivers License, which serves the same function and purpose of a passport card. AFAIK Washington state also issues them. Also AFAIK if a background check was done it was only a rudimentary name search of the NCIC database or some such (the same as is done when a passport is issued). Yes, it has been a good discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is about getting your passport as soon as you can. I agree with this. If what I suspect happens (everyone needing a passport to enter the U.S.), I hope that this thread will be remembered!

But short of going to certain federal locations, a passport wouldn't be required for a year. So why get one "as soon as you can"? Or would you like everyone to carry passports wherever they go and they must present the "papers" whenever asked for them? :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But short of going to certain federal locations, a passport wouldn't be required for a year. So why get one "as soon as you can"? Or would you like everyone to carry passports wherever they go and they must present the "papers" whenever asked for them? :rolleyes:

 

Maybe not a bad idea! http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/harford/aegis/ph-ag-immigration-0127-20170126-story.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But short of going to certain federal locations, a passport wouldn't be required for a year. So why get one "as soon as you can"? Or would you like everyone to carry passports wherever they go and they must present the "papers" whenever asked for them? :rolleyes:

 

I did not start this thread and don't believe that everyone in the U.S. has to have a passport. However, For those people that are planning a cruise outside of the U.S., I wouldn't wait until the government forced me to get one as the wait times would be horrendous. I feel that cruisers need to be proactive so that we don't see a thread on CC 6 months now posting about how they missed their cruise because their passport did not arrive on time.

 

Sparks1093: Yes - Washington state does issue Enhanced Drivers' Licenses -- just never heard them referred to by their initials. When I referred to background checks, when you apply for NEXUS/Global Entry, the background check goes back a long way. I know of people that have been declined due to misdemeanor in the 50's. People with DUI's are definitely declined. Although Canada is very welcoming to foreign visitors, if these visitors want "quick entry" into the country, they want to make sure that their backgrounds are clean. Out of curiosity - are you able to go in the NEXUS line with your Enhanced Drivers License when entering Canada?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please don't tell me you're actually suggesting people should be required to carry ID papers with them at all times.

 

I did not start this thread and don't believe that everyone in the U.S. has to have a passport. However, For those people that are planning a cruise outside of the U.S., I wouldn't wait until the government forced me to get one as the wait times would be horrendous. I feel that cruisers need to be proactive so that we don't see a thread on CC 6 months now posting about how they missed their cruise because their passport did not arrive on time.

Well, you wouldn't see that thread because it would be at least a year before someone isn't able to fly. You still haven't explained why you think it's a good idea to require passports on a closed loop cruise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...