Ala Carte items in MDR

How many shrimp are included in the shrimp cocktail now that it is a la carte. Under the $30 pricing, it was only 3 shrimp per cocktail.

Big picture.

NCL and management has one goal. Produce as much value for shareholders as possible. Note that I did not say passengers.

A few industry generalities...

New cruisers are generally more profitable than experienced ones. They haven't bought the stuff in the shops yet, they take ship excursions, they don't know to check for price drops, etc. The only negative is a higher cost of acquisition.

The average 'avid' cruiser (I am using Princess data here) cruises about once every 3 years. (Note that CC attracts an above average demo in this group, but CC <1 % of the cruising population).

Currently, the single largest increasing cost on cruise ships is food (fuel can sometimes eclipse this but as an overall trend, its food).

The vast majority of cruise passengers do little to no research, either depending on TAs or the cruise line marketing. And most TAs aren't exactly stellar (there are multiple confirmed anecdotes of pax thinking the MDRs were all upcharge and they could only eat at the buffet..seen this myself tho it has been a while). Wow factor counts a lot more these days than free prime rib.

What this means is that NCL, to achieve that goal, is going to look to monetize food or reduce food costs knowing full well that the average pax won't remember from 3 years ago, and not really caring if they lose a lower margin frequent cruiser (which is different than actively trying to discourage them, more like calculated apathy.) As long as they can fill ships at the projected cabin rates doing this, they will.

That's reality. And the corresponding reality is that every single other mass market line is doing exactly the same thing.

Let's be honest - Do you think some of the newbies even care, especially when before didn't have the promos? Plus, to some newbies, NCL reputation (Royal also benefits from this as well) as the anti-Carnival; helps them as well - if a better cruise means paying $5 per person per day more to avoid some of the unwanted masses, so be it. And this is on top of free Broadway and live music shows that's included in the base fare.

 

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I would agree with you but then we would both be wrong

How many shrimp are included in the shrimp cocktail now that it is a la carte. Under the $30 pricing, it was only 3 shrimp per cocktail.

You actually got 5 colossal shrimp under the way old cagneys pricing

Cagneys went up to $30 and 5 colossal shrimp morph into 3 large shrimp

But I'm a seasoned long time cruiser and can remember back to 2011 and the old cagneys

I didn't stop cruising Ncl but I did stop going to cagneys

Like I said before, you really can't compare the fare from when you booked to what it is now. Fares can go up and down based on occupancy and factors other than a promo being added.

 

 

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This is why I think adding $5 per day to the base fare (or as some suggested $50 total) would be acceptable (if even noticeable) to many cruisers. Given the increases, decreases, promos, KSF, etc., pricing isn't static, so increasing (or decreasing less) to cover the $5 per day, and cut out the annoying changes to/adding of fees may not even be noticed except by the most diligent. Our fare dropped $300 pp. I hardly would have raised stink if it'd only decreased $250 and they didn't tinker with everything.

Somewhat unrelated, but the fun performing chefs at Teppanyaki doubled as the omelet makers in the buffet at breakfast on the Escape.

The interesting fact in this discussion is that Mr. Del Rio founded Oceania Cruise Lines in 2002 (along with Joe Watters, formerly of Crystal) with just $14Million in capital raised from family and friends. They started from nothing, with the promise of one chartered ship, and sailed their Maiden Voyage as a cruise line on July 5, 2003.

 

Just 4 years later, in 2007, he sold 70% of Oceania to Apollo Management for almost $1 Billion! $14 Million to $1 Billion in 4 years -- unheard of in almost any industry, let alone the cruise industry.

 

Then, when Apollo bought Regent Seven Seas Cruises from the Carlson family, they rolled Regent and Oceania into a new division of Apollo called Prestige Cruise Holdings. They then moved FDR and almost his entire management team into place to run Prestige.

 

Fast forward a few more years -- about 6 -- and Apollo, parts owners of NCL as well as Prestige, took NCL Holdings public in an IPO. They were planning to do the same with Prestige, even filed some pre-IPO intentions, when someone came up with the bright idea of combining NCLH and PCH into one company instead of doing a PCH IPO. It happened -- and once again, FDR and almost his entire management team were tapped to provide the overall guidance for NCLH. Why? Because it always worked in the past.

 

Now, FDR is bringing his vision to NCL, slowly improving the food (the new menus are getting great reviews), improving the ships (when he took over Regent, he spent $100,000,000 improving just one ship -- Navigator), even improving the art -- he and vice chairman Bob Binder personally picked out all the art for Oceania and Regent -- see this book --

 

 

NCL has a great future ahead of it, and if the "Old Guard" of NCL opens their eyes and minds, they'll be more pleased than they expect. Of course, some will go away -- there's a famous inside joke in the cruise industry about passengers who need to be fired. But, even more will take their place.

The synopsis and numbers you have provided are interesting, but you failed to mention how much of the increase in value was and is carried as DEBT.

The SEC filing shows that NCLH assumed over two and a half BILLION in debt when Apollo arranged for the companies to join together. NCLH debt is now more than one and a half times their book value.

Somewhat unrelated, but the fun performing chefs at Teppanyaki doubled as the omelet makers in the buffet at breakfast on the Escape.

Let's be honest - Do you think some of the newbies even care, especially when before didn't have the promos? Plus, to some newbies, NCL reputation (Royal also benefits from this as well) as the anti-Carnival; helps them as well - if a better cruise means paying $5 per person per day more to avoid some of the unwanted masses, so be it. And this is on top of free Broadway and live music shows that's included in the base fare.

 

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Let us never forget that the largest and most successful cruise line in the WORLD got there by catering to the "unwanted masses" that you so often disparage.

It doesn't matter what a person's financial status is. What really matters is how any person

decides to allocate their resources.

I have enjoyed many different cruise lines and have seen all classes of people on all of them, so it is unreasonable to point out any one cruise line as being low class because their fares are lower and that is what attracts the majority of the population to do business with them.

As I have stated before, the cruise lines that have tried to position themselves as "upper class" have not survived independently.

 

I agree with everything you said, except i don't understand why you feel the need to insult " obese " cruisers. I've seen skinny and muscular people with horrible eating manners as well.

 

Thanks for the lesson in political correctness. Just reading this thread has me nervous again - what is with the obsession with prime rib portions and shrimp portions? I thought the Escape might attract a less food obsessed crowd - looks like I might be wrong. I dread sitting next to people complaining they couldn't order everything off the menu and hoarding at the buffet.

 

Maybe I should upgrade to the Haven in hopes of being around people who don't value their vacation $ by the amount of food they can put on a plastic tray or the amount of plates they can order in a dining room or whether they got a 1/2 pound of prime rib vs a pound (when it is recommended that your portion be 4oz of meat in a balanced meal?)?

 

Thanks for the lesson in political correctness. Just reading this thread has me nervous again - what is with the obsession with prime rib portions and shrimp portions? I thought the Escape might attract a less food obsessed crowd - looks like I might be wrong. I dread sitting next to people complaining they couldn't order everything off the menu and hoarding at the buffet.

 

Maybe I should upgrade to the Haven in hopes of being around people who don't value their vacation $ by the amount of food they can put on a plastic tray or the amount of plates they can order in a dining room or whether they got a 1/2 pound of prime rib vs a pound (when it is recommended that your portion be 4oz of meat in a balanced meal?)?

 

 

It's not about gluttony. It's about taking things away that they promised to you when you booked your cruise and adding surcharges to get those items back,,,,none of which was in place when you booked said cruise and none of it for our health.

 

 

And thanks for the lesson in " drinking the kool aid"

 

 

 

Remember it's a slippery slope when anyone...the govt....your employer....your health insurer....among others.....want to tell you how much you can or cannot eat....and ....we allow them to do that without a fight

 

Soda sizes in NYC ring a bell? Disgusting food school lunch programs perhaps?

 

I dont advocate gluttony or wastefulness but I do advocate the freedom to be responsible for myself with no outside interference regarding my eating habits.

 

Would you be in favor of Ncl reducing portions to 2 oz if the govt said that was recommended?

 

I bet Ncl would be thrilled at their cost savings...and would raise the prices too....and would advertise themselves as being health conscious....for our convenience of course. Lol

 

They already offer heart healthy options so leave it at that and don't try to limit what the vast majority of people choose to eat.

On a la carte & cost control, NCL can easily "manage" their costs by addressing food "waste" in the AYCE buffet daily - upcharge for a 32 oz. pot roast can be quickly done with a quck swipe of the guest keycard at the carving station; and, some would cheer instead of starring at meatloaf (once, only found/served in O'Sheehan)

Otherwise, look for more restrictions - borrowing ideas from changes being put in place for specialty dining - ahead in the MDR: limit all to 1 starter, 1 entree, 1 dessert, and bread basket for a "nominal" charge, just saying - the possibilities are unlimited. As for Haven dining choices for breakfast & lunch ... could that be next :confused: Nah, it typically doesn't affect us - not going to be "upsetting" one tiny micro-bit. :eek:

Everyone will & should be fine with it then, if & when - times are changing, why should "they" be excluded from the rules simply because they are paying more ... the devil's advocate said. :rolleyes:

Use it - the Ignore list - easy to skip reading & not respond to nonsense, there is a difference on an open forum, on agreeing to disagree.

 

 

It's not about gluttony. It's about taking things away that they promised to you when you booked your cruise and adding surcharges to get those items back,,,,none of which was in place when you booked said cruise and none of it for our health.

 

 

And thanks for the lesson in " drinking the kool aid"

 

 

 

Remember it's a slippery slope when anyone...the govt....your employer....your health insurer....among others.....want to tell you how much you can or cannot eat....and ....we allow them to do that without a fight

 

Soda sizes in NYC ring a bell? Disgusting food school lunch programs perhaps?

 

I dont advocate gluttony or wastefulness but I do advocate the freedom to be responsible for myself with no outside interference regarding my eating habits.

 

Would you be in favor of Ncl reducing portions to 2 oz if the govt said that was recommended?

 

I bet Ncl would be thrilled at their cost savings...and would raise the prices too....and would advertise themselves as being health conscious....for our convenience of course. Lol

 

They already offer heart healthy options so leave it at that and don't try to limit what the vast majority of people choose to eat.

 

No trays in the buffet and food portion sizes in O'Sheehan's /MDR should be hints that NCL has been controlling how much people can eat for while now....And no offense - they never really promise Prime rib every night for free; only for selected nights of their choosing, not the passengers. They only promise to feed people and give them room as per contract - didn't say it had to be prime rib or even bread & water to fulfill the obligation.....

 

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Thanks for the lesson in political correctness. Just reading this thread has me nervous again - what is with the obsession with prime rib portions and shrimp portions? I thought the Escape might attract a less food obsessed crowd - looks like I might be wrong. I dread sitting next to people complaining they couldn't order everything off the menu and hoarding at the buffet.

 

Maybe I should upgrade to the Haven in hopes of being around people who don't value their vacation $ by the amount of food they can put on a plastic tray or the amount of plates they can order in a dining room or whether they got a 1/2 pound of prime rib vs a pound (when it is recommended that your portion be 4oz of meat in a balanced meal?)?

 

I would personally rather be around people that overeat the entire cruise than get completely drunk the entire cruise. To each his own.

 

Thanks for the lesson in political correctness. Just reading this thread has me nervous again - what is with the obsession with prime rib portions and shrimp portions? I thought the Escape might attract a less food obsessed crowd - looks like I might be wrong. I dread sitting next to people complaining they couldn't order everything off the menu and hoarding at the buffet.

 

Maybe I should upgrade to the Haven in hopes of being around people who don't value their vacation $ by the amount of food they can put on a plastic tray or the amount of plates they can order in a dining room or whether they got a 1/2 pound of prime rib vs a pound (when it is recommended that your portion be 4oz of meat in a balanced meal?)?

 

Exactly and that is not me. I'm the type of person who doesn't complain about anything on a cruise, I'm there to have fun not complain lol.

 

 

It's not about gluttony. It's about taking things away that they promised to you when you booked your cruise and adding surcharges to get those items back,,,,none of which was in place when you booked said cruise and none of it for our health.

 

 

And thanks for the lesson in " drinking the kool aid"

 

 

 

Remember it's a slippery slope when anyone...the govt....your employer....your health insurer....among others.....want to tell you how much you can or cannot eat....and ....we allow them to do that without a fight

 

Soda sizes in NYC ring a bell? Disgusting food school lunch programs perhaps?

 

I dont advocate gluttony or wastefulness but I do advocate the freedom to be responsible for myself with no outside interference regarding my eating habits.

 

Would you be in favor of Ncl reducing portions to 2 oz if the govt said that was recommended?

 

I bet Ncl would be thrilled at their cost savings...and would raise the prices too....and would advertise themselves as being health conscious....for our convenience of course. Lol

 

They already offer heart healthy options so leave it at that and don't try to limit what the vast majority of people choose to eat.

 

My point is if the foodaholics want to hoard at buffet or MDR - let them pay for it. I don't drink the government and social 'entitilement' mentality kool aid - you can make choices to kill yourself early by overeating and drinking - but this is why I see it as a positive that cruises are offering alternatives - I don't want to make that choice and therefore I don't mind paying for the choices I do make.

 

As for 1/4 lb being a kool aid portion - this recommendation isn't dictated by the gov. Many studies by docs/pharma have been done on societies not suffering from the high obesity rates America is seing (over 30% body fat) and portions that treat food as fuel and not as indulgences are at the root of their ability to eat just about anything and stay thin.

 

That said - if you feel your vacation is all about that 5th collosal shrimp or pound of prime rib or 3rd free dessert - knock yourself out and pay for it.

 

My point is if the foodaholics want to hoard at buffet or MDR - let them pay for it. I don't drink the government and social 'entitilement' mentality kool aid - you can make choices to kill yourself early by overeating and drinking - but this is why I see it as a positive that cruises are offering alternatives - I don't want to make that choice and therefore I don't mind paying for the choices I do make.

 

As for 1/4 lb being a kool aid portion - this recommendation isn't dictated by the gov. Many studies by docs/pharma have been done on societies not suffering from the high obesity rates America is seing (over 30% body fat) and portions that treat food as fuel and not as indulgences are at the root of their ability to eat just about anything and stay thin.

 

That said - if you feel your vacation is all about that 5th collosal shrimp or pound of prime rib or 3rd free dessert - knock yourself out and pay for it.

 

 

You still dont get it....it's not about the size of the portion....it's about the fact they took value away from me and didn't give me the appropriate money back.

 

 

You still dont get it....it's not about the size of the portion....it's about the fact they took value away from me and didn't give me the appropriate money back.

Every passengers who has had something taken off the MDR menu, with the new changes, could say the same. I like the spaghetti bolognese and now it is off the menu and only available on the room service menu, so everyone who likes it and still wants it would have to pay the $7.95 service fee if they want it. They could have just taken the prime rib off altogether and maybe that is what they should have done, instead of upgrading the size of the portion and adding it as an upcharge item.

Isn't ascribing the behavior of one or a few of a group to an entire group the basis of every "ism" that has ever existed? Yeah, it sucked that this one person singled you out but to blame the cruise line and everyone that choses to sail with that line seems a bit extreme.

It wasn't one person - it was a couple of them, like 1/3 of the ship. No offense - I'm not going to waste $1,000 plus with single occupancy penalty on top; to put up with that again.

It wasn't one person - it was a couple of them, like 1/3 of the ship. No offense - I'm not going to waste $1,000 plus with single occupancy penalty on top; to put up with that again.

Can you give some details as to what they did by singling you out?

What exactly happened

What was said to you

What do you think the reason was for whatever happened to you

Oh wow.

I feel very strongly about consumers getting what has been advertised to them as an inducement to part with their money. I've had to fight this battle many times, with many different companies and vendors who have promised me ABC in order to get me to sign a contract and then only want to provide A and B, and feel no obligation to provide C.

 

I wonder if any of these people would feel taken advantage of if they go to board a ship and suddenly the ropes course has a fee, or desserts have a fee, or the DSC is increased with no warning, or studio access is a $15 per day fee, or $1 per tender ride fee, entertainment is an additional $5 per show, etc. I mean technically those are all "choices" but they are fundamental changes to the package they had purchased and the value they bargained for is reduced or eliminated.

 

I too live by a budget. My budget is more than some, less than others, but it is a budget. All of the features and amenities of a particular cruise line or ship are considered in my value proposition when I put my money down on the line.

 

Duped. What I feel is duped by NCL. A lot of people are feeling duped. No gun to my head to pay for add ons, and out of principle I won't pay for them. but I will still feel duped. Our next cruise, on the Escape, includes a large number of family coming from various places, lots of arrangements have been made, flights, hotels, etc. It would be stupid of me as well to throw away a large sum of money or NOT spend time with extended family. If I was traveling solo and had no other considerations, perhaps I'd view things differently. But I sure as hell know when I'm being conned.

Well said. Thank you

 

My point is if the foodaholics want to hoard at buffet or MDR - let them pay for it. I don't drink the government and social 'entitilement' mentality kool aid - you can make choices to kill yourself early by overeating and drinking - but this is why I see it as a positive that cruises are offering alternatives - I don't want to make that choice and therefore I don't mind paying for the choices I do make.

 

As for 1/4 lb being a kool aid portion - this recommendation isn't dictated by the gov. Many studies by docs/pharma have been done on societies not suffering from the high obesity rates America is seing (over 30% body fat) and portions that treat food as fuel and not as indulgences are at the root of their ability to eat just about anything and stay thin.

 

That said - if you feel your vacation is all about that 5th collosal shrimp or pound of prime rib or 3rd free dessert - knock yourself out and pay for it.

 

What's ironic is I'm probably the heaviest person on cruise critic yes I'm pretty sure I ate less than most people, the simple reason food absorbs alcohol and for me Cruise are more about drinking then eating. I mean yeah its cool to have what you want when you want food wise but the more you eat the harder it is to stay drunk lol.

 

What's ironic is I'm probably the heaviest person on cruise critic yes I'm pretty sure I ate less than most people, the simple reason food absorbs alcohol and for me Cruise are more about drinking then eating. I mean yeah its cool to have what you want when you want food wise but the more you eat the harder it is to stay drunk lol.

 

This clears up quite a lot of things.;)

 

Bill

 

What's ironic is I'm probably the heaviest person on cruise critic

 

I doubt it! I saw your review videos. You're not a very big guy. :confused: