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Question about traveling with minor without legal guardianship


Cgaope
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I have a special situation and wonder if anyone here has had something similar to put my mind to rest.

 

My sister died five years ago and I have been raising her daughter Emma since.

My sister was a single mother, Emma's father disappeared soon after her birth and there is no father listed on the birth certificate.

 

Emma has lived with me since my sister's death but there has never been a reason to apply for legal guardianship before now. When I recently inquired about it I was told the cost would not be anything affordable for me.

 

Emma is now 13 and this is the first time I will try to travel with her.

 

I tried to apply for a passport for her but am unable to do so without legal guardianship papers.

 

I am hoping the cruise line will accept the following as proof of my guardianship:

Her birth certificate with my sister's name as mother and no father listed

My sister's death certificate

A copy of my insurance card listing her as my dependent and I can also bring a copy of tax return listing her as a dependent.

 

I think this will be ok but I am terrified we will not be allowed to board.

 

Can anyone advise?

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If it were me, I'd see an attorney. Perhaps whoever handled your sister's estate or your sister's will if it stated anything about guardianship in case of her death, would help. But if you want to travel, or get a passport and birth certificate, it could be worth the consultation fee to get better answers than what you'll probably pick up on a cruise chat board.

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Thanks. I have already tried that. They want a 5k retainer before they will give any advice. There is not time for me to obtain legal guardianship prior to our cruise. I am just wondering if anyone has experienced a similar situation and what documents were acceptable to the cruise line.

 

Also my sister was 28 and had no assets, estate or will.

Edited by Cgaope
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I bet they will not let you board with her without proper documentation. When my wife took our minor daughter on a Disney cruise, they required me to sign a form stating that I was OK with her cruising with my wife without me.

 

If it's not too late, cancel and get your deposit back. If you've passed the point where you cannot cancel, you may be in a bit of a pickle.

 

Does she have a passport? That's required too...

 

You might talk to your county's social services people - they may be the only ones who can help you now.

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I bet they will not let you board with her without proper documentation. When my wife took our minor daughter on a Disney cruise, they required me to sign a form stating that I was OK with her cruising with my wife without me.

 

If it's not too late, cancel and get your deposit back. If you've passed the point where you cannot cancel, you may be in a bit of a pickle.

 

Does she have a passport? That's required too...

 

You might talk to your county's social services people - they may be the only ones who can help you now.

 

A passport is not required for a closed loop cruise, leave and returning to US territory.

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You won't be able to board without the proper custodial documentation. If you are unable to apply for a passport (unnecessary for a closed loop cruise) without the proper legal guardianship papers, it is unlikely the cruiseline will allow you to board without similar documentation. Contacting the cruiseline should be your first order of business.

 

This should have been the first thing you clarified and resolved before you booked. Your terror is now rightly magnified.

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I bet they will not let you board with her without proper documentation. When my wife took our minor daughter on a Disney cruise, they required me to sign a form stating that I was OK with her cruising with my wife without me.

 

If it's not too late, cancel and get your deposit back. If you've passed the point where you cannot cancel, you may be in a bit of a pickle.

 

Does she have a passport? That's required too...

 

You might talk to your county's social services people - they may be the only ones who can help you now.

 

 

OP, DO NOT pay any attention to the reply I am quoting. Not only are they wrong but as you probably noticed yourself their reading comprehension skills are poor at best.

 

As for your problem. Take what you have. You will be fine No reason to take the tax forms.

Edited by loxley
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B

OP, DO NOT pay any attention to the reply I am quoting. Not only are they wrong but as you probably noticed yourself their reading comprehension skills are poor at best.

 

As for your problem. Take what you have. You will be fine No reason to take the tax forms.

 

This is equally bad (and incorrect) advice. The documentation you mention only evidences dependence, not guardianship.

 

Do not trust the words of anonymous forum posters on such a crucial issue. I can assure you things will not be "fine". Again, I implore you to verify with the cruise line what documentation they will accept to prove legal guardianship. Only then will you know the right answer.

Edited by StolidCruiser
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B

 

This is equally bad (and incorrect) advice. The documentation you mention only evidences dependence, not guardianship.

 

Do not trust the words of anonymous forum posters on such a crucial issue. I can assure you things will not be "fine". Again, I implore you to verify with the cruise line what documentation they will accept to prove legal guardianship. Only then will you know the right answer.

 

She will be FINE. You do not need to prove guardianship.

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The cruise line has told me she can travel with a close relative so I am hoping to prove I am a close relative with the docs I have. But I am still nervous since this is just from calling the cruise line and so I was hoping to find someone on these boards who had a similar situation and was able to board.

 

I have a query in with homeland security already.

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Contact the cruise line and get their answer in writing. Take it with you to the port.

 

Also, guardianship doesn't have to cost very much, you might want to look into legal aid, or whatever they have in your area.

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I am just wondering how you managed to register her for school or bring her to a doctor without being her guardian?

Are you completely sure this is an expensive thing to do legally?? I'd not want this to be left without something legal done. What happens if something happens to you??

Not just for cruising but I'd want something in writing somewhere1

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My daughter has gone to and from Canada with my parents with different last names with no issues. She has also been on 3 cruises and we have never been asked for any documentation about her guardianship or legal ability to travel without her father's information.

 

A lot of people will err on the side of caution (sometimes to the extent of being overly pessimistic and doomsdayish). No one wants you to pay to fly somewhere only to be turned away. But in my experience, and my daughters very active travel history, what they don't know won't hurt them and don't ask don't tell.

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The cruise line has told me she can travel with a close relative so I am hoping to prove I am a close relative with the docs I have. But I am still nervous since this is just from calling the cruise line and so I was hoping to find someone on these boards who had a similar situation and was able to board.

Normally when you're traveling with a minor that's not "yours", you're told to bring a notarized form from the parent(s) or legal guardian(s) indicating that it's okay for you to take the kid out of the country. This is listed on most cruise line websites as a "recommendation", not a "requirement".

 

It's required by some countries (like Mexico) if you're just traveling there, because they have a problem with one-parent kidnappings. If you tried to catch a flight to Mexico with Emma, the airline would refuse you boarding, they are very strict about asking for that documentation. With cruise lines - there are tons of posts on these boards from people that always brought the form but were never asked for it. So it's very likely that you'll be okay with the documentation that you have - but no one here can guarantee it for you.

 

Since you're asking the cruise line about it anyway, get their answer in writing, as an additional precaution.

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The cruise line has told me she can travel with a close relative so I am hoping to prove I am a close relative with the docs I have. But I am still nervous since this is just from calling the cruise line and so I was hoping to find someone on these boards who had a similar situation and was able to board.

 

I have a query in with homeland security already.

 

Do not let these people get you more worried.

 

When you get to check in, give the birth certs and ids. I bet that is all that will be needed, but IF they say where are her parents say her mother is dead and she never knew her father and she now lives with me, and you can give the death cert.

 

The US has absolutely no requirement for any paper work to travel with children. (No matter how much people, including me, thinks they should) Mexico has some requirements but only if that is your final destination such as taking a dive holiday there, but not a cruise ship stop. Canada is anal about it, but still I have seen stories where people were able to get thru without the required paper work even there.

 

In the wildest of imaginations, they may want to ask her some questions, but at 13. I am sure she could handle it fine. I am going on a cruise with my aunt who I have lived with since my mother died 5 yrs ago.

 

I really doubt you are going to find anybody here with a similar situation, but please come back to this thread when you get back home and let us know what happened.

 

I know it is hard to believe an absolute stranger on a board, esp when you have so many, and will have many more saying you need to get legal paperwork, blah, blah, blah, and maybe you do, but you will not need it to take the cruise. But, if it was needed, these boards would surely have had someone post a story in the past 10 years I have been here. The only have way story was a woman who claimed her friend, who had no access to internet btw, was turned away from RCCL because she did not have a paper from the childs father. A cruise line can require any paperwork they want to and I have only sailed on RCCL one time so I don't know all their rules, but I do know Carnival has no such rules.

 

Also I will point out, if it was required, it would be required for everyone and there are tons of people reporting they had the paperwork all in order they were told here they needed, but was never asked for it. Some people even going to court route to get the paperwork that was not needed.

 

As for the quiery you have in to border control, they will also tell you it is fine, but probably in a complicated way. If they tell you you need to have legal guardianship (they will not, but in case) ask them to give you the specific rule stating that fact. There are none. They "suggest" you have a note from the childs guardian, but in your case the child is your ward, you just don't have the legal paperwork.

 

Just go on the cruise, but please do report back.

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I am the legal guardian to my cousin so I had the paperwork to show it, if needed; however, no one ever asked or questioned who he was. He has a different last name than us as well. I think you will be fine with what you have.

 

Just as a side note, it only cost me $12 to become his legal guardian. We didn't need an attorney. Perhaps you can file the paperwork without one? Most forms are found on line (well they are in WI anyway).

 

Good luck! I think you will be fine!

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I don't know what Carnival will or will not require of you in this situation. However, as a former practicing legal aid attorney, I know that we used to handle guardianship cases for clients who met our needs requirements.

 

If you do not qualify for legal aid, contact your local bar association and they will be able to refer you to lawyers who accept pro bono cases (i.e. they will handle your case for free) or lawyers who may do the work for a reduced fee. If there is a law school in your area, there may be legal clinics there where law students will do the work under the supervision of a lawyer. They charge little or nothing for this.

 

As you can see, there are a lot of options out there which will allow you to take care of obtaining legal guardianship of your niece. I'm surprised it has not been a problem for you before now. Take care of it soon.

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B

 

This is equally bad (and incorrect) advice. The documentation you mention only evidences dependence, not guardianship.

 

Do not trust the words of anonymous forum posters on such a crucial issue. I can assure you things will not be "fine". Again, I implore you to verify with the cruise line what documentation they will accept to prove legal guardianship. Only then will you know the right answer.

 

 

 

 

Such as yourself?

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I took my step daughter on a cruise with CCL and they wanted a letter from the mother and father for me to board. I know others will say they have never had to prove it, but I had the paperwork and they did ask. Same happened coming into the US from Canada. We all had passports but since the mom and dad were not with us the Border Patrol pulled the two girls out of the car and questioned all of us for about an hour. Almost missed our flight out of Buffalo.

 

And to add, this is from https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/268/~/children---child-traveling-with-one-parent-or-someone-who-is-not-a-parent-or

 

If a child (under the age of 18) is traveling with only one parent or someone who is not a parent or legal guardian, what paperwork should the adult have to indicate permission or legal authority to have that child in their care?

 

Due to the increasing incidents of child abductions in disputed custody cases and as possible victims of child pornography, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) strongly recommends that unless the child is accompanied by both parents, the adult have a note from the child's other parent (or, in the case of a child traveling with grandparents, uncles or aunts, sisters or brothers, friends, or in groups*, a note signed by both parents) stating "I acknowledge that my wife/husband/etc. is traveling out of the country with my son/daughter/group. He/She/They has/have my permission to do so." See our Q&A parental consent.

 

* School groups, teen tours, vacation groups.

 

CBP also suggests that this note be notarized.

 

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

 

Adults traveling with children should also be aware that, while the U.S. does not require this documentation, many other countries do; failure to produce notarized permission letters and/or birth certificates could result in travelers being refused entry (Canada has very strict requirements in this regard).

 

As Judge Milan of the Peoples Court says, "Do I believe you or my lying eyes".

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We're cruising this fall and my son's girlfriend is going with us. She's 16 and Carnival told me that no documentation was required by the cruise line. YMMV

 

You do know she will need a photo ID right?

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