NCL is getting fancier but what will NCL do with the bottom of their target group?

I've read in some financial reports that the per passenger spending went up (no wonder LOL) on NCL. But how will NCL handle the aggressive marketing done by for example MSC? While NCL is kind of stretching their target group and hoping everyone stays on board in that process and making more it seems MSC is really going after a piece of former NCL pie..?

 

See this ad:

 

In my view NCL should maintain some lower pricing to compete with companies as MSC to keep a proper volume? What is it worth if your per passenger spending increases but the number of passengers eventually decreases due to the higher cruise fares? The nett profit would be a bit higher but could be more if they manage to keep the bottom of their target group with them? Not sure how high end they want NCL to be, the average NCL passenger mix already is less stylish than let's say the average passenger mix on MSC in the Caribbean.

 

Point of thread; will NCL allow MSC in their backyard whilst the front of the house is all up and shiny? ;) Will the NCL volume simply shift up and make room for others or will they retain and expand their volume? I think this is or should be the next focus for NCL after doing the more easy upscaling of their product.. Opinions?

It is an interesting question for sure. As we have been loyal to NCL thus far, we have been looking at MSC and Celebrity for our next cruise. Both have great offers. On both I can get a suite and all of the perks for about the same price I can get a Mini Suite on NCL.

 

We will know more next week when NCL releases their fall 2017 schedule

I have to disagree with some assumptions in your post.

 

Yes, FDR has stated that he want's to make NCL higher class but IMO none of the "improvements" so far support that claim - the prices have raised, and menus changed but in reality most of those changes only add to the bottom line of the company, instead of enhancing the customer experience.

 

One good example would be the new suite breakfast menu where for example crab cakes have been replaced with seafood sauce that reportedly has no identifiable pieces of seafood - exactly the same what they did when they cut lobster from MDR menu.

 

Also based on my experiences and recent posts read here, it seems that what they are really mostly attracting is the clientele of Carnival instead of Royal or Celebrity - while they might be able to get more money per passenger with the "included" drink package that is an upgrade only compared to Carnival (and even then only to passengers that drink over 15 drinks per day), it definitely is not the direction FDR has stated to steer the ship to.

 

Of course attracting that kind of clientele to the public spaces makes Haven seem even more exquisite, but that's about it. The experience we had on Getaway this year was completely different from all previous NCL cruises because of the changed clientele - and not in a good way.

 

From my perspective I have to say that to back up his message and vision, FDR must do a lot before NCL is anywhere close to Celebrity and their "Modern Luxury" that clearly is his biggest competition. Mean while I believe that attracting some new customers from other mass market lines to replace disappointed ones will do.

I agree with you Demonyte (I think we're kind alike with the shift towards X!) but with Norwegian NEXT investment there somehow must appear a fancier fleet (Escape and especially the refurbished Dawn)/company/private destinations in the near future.

 

Your reference to where the new passengers have to come from is quite spot on, that's also a large challenge for NCL.

 

It's a good thing NCL is trying to distinctive themselves from other lines but as said, it's not going to be anything near Celebrity in the future. With more bunks coming into the market in this golden age of cruising NCL needs to rethink their plan?

 

The bait and switch for the UBP and UDP packages isn't working any longer, not even for first timers, reading some recent posts on CC. The growth market is a good one but the new passengers aren't foolish, are independent bookers and demand great value for their buck.

 

I wonder if NCL is able to attract those passengers when of the newer megaships is homeported in Europe or whether it's MSC again biting off a large chunk of pie with their newest ships and package experiences?

 

If only FDR posted on here heheh...

 

We will know more next week when NCL releases their fall 2017 schedule

 

Very looking forward to that, and their fares :)

I agree with you Demonyte (I think we're kind alike with the shift towards X!) but with Norwegian NEXT investment there somehow must appear a fancier fleet (Escape and especially the refurbished Dawn)/company/private destinations in the near future.

 

Your reference to where the new passengers have to come from is quite spot on, that's also a large challenge for NCL.

 

It's a good thing NCL is trying to distinctive themselves from other lines but as said, it's not going to be anything near Celebrity in the future. With more bunks coming into the market in this golden age of cruising NCL needs to rethink their plan?

 

The bait and switch for the UBP and UDP packages isn't working any longer, not even for first timers, reading some recent posts on CC. The growth market is a good one but the new passengers aren't foolish, are independent bookers and demand great value for their buck.

 

I wonder if NCL is able to attract those passengers when of the newer megaships is homeported in Europe or whether it's MSC again biting off a large chunk of pie with their newest ships and package experiences?

 

If only FDR posted on here heheh...

 

I just read a review from a poster that just returned on the Dawn and (if I am recalling correctly) the ship does look better and all but there are still ongoing maintenance problems present from previous sailings (the poster has sailed on the Dawn prior to the upgrades) and the shortage of staff was noticeable. Del Rio will need to invest in staffing at some point and will need to work on ongoing customer service issues that continue to plague NCL if he wants to take NCL to the next level. (I just priced the Dawn to Bermuda for later next year and it was $2700 for an ocean view cabin and I'm not sure that pricing would work to get me onboard.)

Also keep in mind MSC is trying to break into the US market so their pricing and perks are going to be highly competitive with all the cruise lines. A while ago they were offering to status match to Royal, don't know if that is still going on or if it was to more companies than RCCL.

 

The Divina has been sailing from Miami for a while now, and they are purpose building the Seaside for the US market. Expect prices to be low and perks to be high for maybe another year, but after that they will be a better known option and their pricing will increase. Unfortunately two more ships sailing from Florida isn't going to put enough of a dent in the demand.

Just returned last week from a BA cruise. Thou we still had a wonderful cruise something was lacking from previous NCL cruises. I am usually booking my next NCL cruise but with the increase in prices I am holding off.

I've read in some financial reports that the per passenger spending went up (no wonder LOL) on NCL. But how will NCL handle the aggressive marketing done by for example MSC? While NCL is kind of stretching their target group and hoping everyone stays on board in that process and making more it seems MSC is really going after a piece of former NCL pie..?

 

See this ad:

 

In my view NCL should maintain some lower pricing to compete with companies as MSC to keep a proper volume? What is it worth if your per passenger spending increases but the number of passengers eventually decreases due to the higher cruise fares? The nett profit would be a bit higher but could be more if they manage to keep the bottom of their target group with them? Not sure how high end they want NCL to be, the average NCL passenger mix already is less stylish than let's say the average passenger mix on MSC in the Caribbean.

 

Point of thread; will NCL allow MSC in their backyard whilst the front of the house is all up and shiny? ;) Will the NCL volume simply shift up and make room for others or will they retain and expand their volume? I think this is or should be the next focus for NCL after doing the more easy upscaling of their product.. Opinions?

 

FDR said he he does not want bargain cruiser's.

 

After 20 something cruises with NCL. I'M not even thinking about looking at NCL now.

 

Not impressed by the new lipstick on Dawn.

 

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Also keep in mind MSC is trying to break into the US market so their pricing and perks are going to be highly competitive with all the cruise lines. A while ago they were offering to status match to Royal, don't know if that is still going on or if it was to more companies than RCCL.

 

 

 

The Divina has been sailing from Miami for a while now, and they are purpose building the Seaside for the US market. Expect prices to be low and perks to be high for maybe another year, but after that they will be a better known option and their pricing will increase. Unfortunately two more ships sailing from Florida isn't going to put enough of a dent in the demand.

 

 

MSC is status matching any loyalty program. I am BLACK now on MSC because I am PLAT on NCL.

 

This "NCL Loyalist" is not buying a future cruise certificate in Feb 2017. And I usually do.

 

I too am shopping around.

Edited June 26, 2016 by DMH15

I looked up the definition of "Affluent". That is who Del Rio wants to attract, and I found this.

 

Affluent - definition of affluent by The Free Dictionary

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/affluent‎Cached

SimilarSomething went wrong! The page has not loaded completely and some content

and functionality are corrupted. Please reload the page or if you are running ad ...

 

Perhaps a little warped humor here !!!

 

Maybe he meant to say "Effluent" ==== Effluent in the artificial sense is in general considered to be water pollution,

Edited June 26, 2016 by swedish weave

I must dumb bc I'm new to cruising and love NCL. I guess I'm the mark they want bc the vacays are cheaper than my non cruising ones and I go to Vegas and am used to a downmarket clientele and don't care. Sounds like I'm late to what used to be a great party.

I agree with you Demonyte (I think we're kind alike with the shift towards X!) but with Norwegian NEXT investment there somehow must appear a fancier fleet (Escape and especially the refurbished Dawn)/company/private destinations in the near future.

 

Your reference to where the new passengers have to come from is quite spot on, that's also a large challenge for NCL.

 

It's a good thing NCL is trying to distinctive themselves from other lines but as said, it's not going to be anything near Celebrity in the future. With more bunks coming into the market in this golden age of cruising NCL needs to rethink their plan?

 

The bait and switch for the UBP and UDP packages isn't working any longer, not even for first timers, reading some recent posts on CC. The growth market is a good one but the new passengers aren't foolish, are independent bookers and demand great value for their buck.

 

I wonder if NCL is able to attract those passengers when of the newer megaships is homeported in Europe or whether it's MSC again biting off a large chunk of pie with their newest ships and package experiences?

 

If only FDR posted on here heheh...

 

After a couple of recent NCL cruises, all in suites, we jumped back to Celebrity. The product did not warrant the price, and the food was pathetic. Out suite to Alaska was 1/2 what NCL wanted vs Celebrity. We get gratuities, drinks, Internet unlimited, and a nice OBC. Then booked a B2B on Celebrity for New Zealand and Australia in suites. cElebrity just has a nicer atmosphere IMHO, and they fit our requirements more. I do not see how NCL thinks they will attract the cruises who expects more. The nickel and diming was terrible.

FDR said he he does not want bargain cruiser's.

 

I came here to say this exactly. Unless you're able to spend money without thinking about it, FDR doesn't want you and he'd be happy for you to just go somewhere else.

 

 

This "NCL Loyalist" is not buying a future cruise certificate in Feb 2017. And I usually do.

 

I too am shopping around.

 

Ditto. We're doing Epic this September just to burn a future cruise certificate. Definitely won't be buying another one. We were prepared to be an NCL cruiser for life, but we've started to drift. Partially due to the changes, partially due to the prices. We have the UDP from last year before they stopped offering it. Wondering what it'll even be worth by the time we step on board.

I must dumb bc I'm new to cruising and love NCL. I guess I'm the mark they want bc the vacays are cheaper than my non cruising ones and I go to Vegas and am used to a downmarket clientele and don't care. Sounds like I'm late to what used to be a great party.

 

I wouldn't say dumb, but as you said you're new to cruising, so I'm guessing you've probably just missed all the changes? It's easy to love the product when you don't have something to compare it to.

Part of the basic challenges I see with NCL's product is that, what can executive / top management do about the basic sizes of the staterooms - outside of its Haven categories - the newly refurbished QM2's standard inside is bigger than the regular balcony on the *Away class ships, and it has a real chair (some with a sofa) vs. a "stool" for sea days.

From my perspective I have to say that to back up his message and vision, FDR must do a lot before NCL is anywhere close to Celebrity and their "Modern Luxury" that clearly is his biggest competition. Mean while I believe that attracting some new customers from other mass market lines to replace disappointed ones will do.

I totally agree. I've sailed on Celebrity considerably more than I have on NCL and I think NCL is a long way from a premium line like Celebrity. NCL has a long expensive road ahead of them if they want to move from a mass market line to a premium line. It is going to take a lot more than upgrading the ships, it is going to take extensive advertising dollars to change the perception of what NCL has always been.

I don't think NCL would be worried about losing some customers to MSC, as they seem to be garnering new customers to replace them.

I must dumb bc I'm new to cruising and love NCL. I guess I'm the mark they want bc the vacays are cheaper than my non cruising ones and I go to Vegas and am used to a downmarket clientele and don't care. Sounds like I'm late to what used to be a great party.

No, you are not late to the party; I have been cruising NCL for sometime (before many of the changes) and think it is great as well - I like some of the changes and don't like others, but realize NCL isn't building their business model to make only me happy. All cruise lines change and evolve and some folks just want it to be the way it was. A company can't make changes and keep everyone happy, they have to look toward the largest common denominator and keep them happy. Even on Celebrity, many have a huge issue with the changes they have made over recent years and want to go back to the white gloved servers, etc., but folks have to realize that things change and we will like some of the changes and not like others. There are enough cruise lines out there and that means that there is a match for everyone.

Is Celebrity just being used as an example or does FDR really think NCL can compete with or compare to Celebrity? :confused:

Probably like many of you, we look for cruises with interesting itineraries, that preferably have some new ports for us, at the best base price. For us, the base price is even more important because of exchange rates. The promotions that have come along with great fanfare, have not yet surpassed the price value we have gotten by booking early with few perks. Thanks to CC posters, we now look way ahead for cruises.

 

We went back to NCL in 2013 after reading how service had improved, and we do enjoy the flexible dining times and choices of specialty restaurants. However, most lines now offer some variation of flex dining times and are adding more specialty restaurants, so that is becoming less of a draw. And with the prices going up so much on NCL, it is practically moot.

 

We weren't very impressed on our NCL cruise last year with various things, and also got denied an extra loyalty point post-cruise for a yet to be determined reason. We also find that their itineraries in Europe are quite repetitive compared to other lines. The 2017 cruise we have since booked elsewhere has a great itinerary and a better price than the nearest comparable cruise on NCL, even with all the 'freebies', so it was not difficult to make that choice!

Is Celebrity just being used as an example or does FDR really think NCL can compete with or compare to Celebrity? :confused:

 

I think Celebrity is being used as an example, but Del Rio does want to move NCL up on the cruise line food chain. Industry analysts have said he wants to make NCL an entry level line for passengers to make the jump to Oceania and Regent.

MSC is status matching any loyalty program. I am BLACK now on MSC because I am PLAT on NCL.

 

This "NCL Loyalist" is not buying a future cruise certificate in Feb 2017. And I usually do.

 

I too am shopping around.

 

We were also status matched to Black on MSC since we are Platium with NCL. We just returned from a week in the Yacht Club on the MSC Divina....absolutely an amazing experience and the ship is beautiful. We have sailed in suites on NCL and enjoyed it but booked a B2B in the YC on the Divina for 2017 feeling it's a better value for now.

I've read in some financial reports that the per passenger spending went up (no wonder LOL) on NCL. But how will NCL handle the aggressive marketing done by for example MSC? While NCL is kind of stretching their target group and hoping everyone stays on board in that process and making more it seems MSC is really going after a piece of former NCL pie..?

 

See this ad:

 

In my view NCL should maintain some lower pricing to compete with companies as MSC to keep a proper volume? What is it worth if your per passenger spending increases but the number of passengers eventually decreases due to the higher cruise fares? The nett profit would be a bit higher but could be more if they manage to keep the bottom of their target group with them? Not sure how high end they want NCL to be, the average NCL passenger mix already is less stylish than let's say the average passenger mix on MSC in the Caribbean.

 

Point of thread; will NCL allow MSC in their backyard whilst the front of the house is all up and shiny? ;) Will the NCL volume simply shift up and make room for others or will they retain and expand their volume? I think this is or should be the next focus for NCL after doing the more easy upscaling of their product.. Opinions?

 

There are several things to consider here:

 

1 and the most important, have you tried booking the $799.00 rate? Do, see when it is available and what the taxes and port charges are? When I was still an agent I has a new client call with a rate she had seen advertised: 40% off on Alaskan cruises on HAL Well the ad was right, the catch: it was 40% off the July rate and only available for the first 2 May sailings.

2-MSC is relatively new to the Caribbean market: they are pushing for new business, just like a new store in town when advertising specials. X clients.

3-I have had X clients, family members and friends who have sailed MSC : the newer ships are very pretty apparently, but the service leaves a lot to be desired and the food, like most ships depends on the individuals tastes, plus they do not offer the selection of dining you get on the older standard mass marketed lines

4-Maybe NCL doesn't want to compete with them?

5-have you sailed them yet? Maybe you would fall in love, maybe come back with answers to your questions.

 

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We too are Platinum but are certainly shopping around and have lots of time to cancel NCL and rebook elswhere.

Is Celebrity just being used as an example or does FDR really think NCL can compete with or compare to Celebrity? :confused:

 

I'm using it as an example for two reasons:

 

1. That is the only mass market line that even remotely fits FDR's vision of future NCL and therefore is the only point of comparison. Other premium mass market cruise lines like Princess or HAL are more geared towards baby boomers whereas Celebrity (like NCL) now focus more on Gen X/Y clientele.

 

2. We switched over to Celebrity, partly because we're not interested in very old or too big Oasis class ships and therefore Royal and partly because what I stated in previous point.