Denied Boarding Holland America

OP just won't take the No Means NO and blames his own misfortune on everyone else but himself. That is all.

It's always someone else's fault. Like the woman on another board who got angry at her TA for not informing her that she couldn't cruise if she was more than 24 weeks pregnant. The woman was 26 weeks at the time of her cruise and she was denied boarding. She said it was a surprise pregnancy and didn't know you couldn't cruise after 24 weeks, but the TA should have said something. Yeah, like isn't it your responsibility to read your documents and it's your TA's job to know that you're pregnant? Surprise !!!!!!!!!

It's always someone else's fault. Like the woman on another board who got angry at her TA for not informing her that she couldn't cruise if she was more than 24 weeks pregnant. The woman was 26 weeks at the time of her cruise and she was denied boarding. She said it was a surprise pregnancy and didn't know you couldn't cruise after 24 weeks, but the TA should have said something. Yeah, like isn't it your responsibility to read your documents and it's your TA's job to know that you're pregnant? Surprise !!!!!!!!!

That was going to be my question. HOW would the TA even know if the woman was pregnant? It's probable she (cruiser) didn't mention it when making the plans.

That was going to be my question. HOW would the TA even know if the woman was pregnant? It's probable she (cruiser) didn't mention it when making the plans.

Kitty9 didn't quote the passenger quite right. She wasn't pregnant when she booked the cruise, didn't know there was a gestation limit, and found out when she went to pick up tickets. She isn't sailing yet, so hasn't been denied boarding...yet...EM

The op should ask Canada for a voucher

That made me LOL

Kitty9 didn't quote the passenger quite right. She wasn't pregnant when she booked the cruise, didn't know there was a gestation limit, and found out when she went to pick up tickets. She isn't sailing yet, so hasn't been denied boarding...yet...EM

The pregnant woman knows she can't fly at a certain gestation point. It makes sense to me for her to look into rules/regs/policies for cruising.

B ut I have learned here on various f orums the rules do not all apply equally to all of us. Some seem to think the rules are for othhers but not for them. AND, it sems to be hthe way of modern society to never accept blame for our own missteps or mistakes. It is always some one else's fault and someone with deep pockets needs to pay for it. :eek: This seems to be the way of the world these days. Few ever admit the unpleasant circumstance in which they find them selves was their own fault. Anyone in sight is an easy target to blame.

B ut I have learned here on various f orums the rules do not all apply equally to all of us. Some seem to think the rules are for othhers but not for them. AND, it sems to be hthe way of modern society to never accept blame for our own missteps or mistakes. It is always some one else's fault and someone with deep pockets needs to pay for it. :eek: This seems to be the way of the world these days. Few ever admit the unpleasant circumstance in which they find them selves was their own fault. Anyone in sight is an easy target to blame.

Touche

B ut I have learned here on various f orums the rules do not all apply equally to all of us. Some seem to think the rules are for othhers but not for them. AND, it sems to be hthe way of modern society to never accept blame for our own missteps or mistakes. It is always some one else's fault and someone with deep pockets needs to pay for it. :eek: This seems to be the way of the world these days. Few ever admit the unpleasant circumstance in which they find them selves was their own fault. Anyone in sight is an easy target to blame.

I agree some think rules don't apply to them but let's not forget that many times a company is at fault and a savvy customer can calmly point that out to them and perhaps negotiate some financial consideration

Happens all the time

Only difference is that the provider (the company) realizes they did indeed inconvenience the customer through no fault of the customer

This thread is the total opposite.

Customer was uninformed as to what they needed to do to board

Fwiw....a pp pointed out how did they check in online for the cruise without proper docs?

Hmmm....so much more to this "story" that we will never know lol

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One unfortunate fallout from our modern world is the wide acceptance of the lack of personal responsibility. What happened to the OP is unfortunate....but simply due to the failure of the OP to do their own due diligence. The cruise line had no alternative but to deny boarding and there is no reason why the cruise line should bear any responsibility or financial penalty...since they did nothing wrong. It is not reasonable for cruise lines to deal with all the various Visa issues since each cruise can have passengers from many different countries...each with different visa requirements for each and every port.

Hank

Long shot. First verify Canada requires a Visa. OP didn't give enough information. Next do you need a visa if you stay on the ship in Victoria.

Did you really on incorrect information contained on HALs website.

 

None of the above applies. Tell HAl you weren't planning on visiting Victoria, didn't realize you needed a visa and ask for an exception. Maybe a (small) part of your forfeited fare as an onboard credit towards a future cruise. Maybe ask why online check in didn't flag visa issue.

 

Sounds like HAL employee picked this up. I'd ask why HAL couldn't apply same screening during online check in

Do you know of any cruise line that asks for visa information as part of their online check in procedure? Celebrity did not when we were taking an Asian cruise; and there was constant debate on CC threads as to whether or not passengers would need a Chinese Visa.

Actually, the OP or his wife caused the problem by not finding out that she needed a visa and then not applying for one. I don't care whether she's from Brazil, Costa Rica, Sri Lanka, or Thailand.

Yes I agree the op and his wife did indeed cause the problem but as far as Hal giving them something...nope

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One unfortunate fallout from our modern world is the wide acceptance of the lack of personal responsibility. What happened to the OP is unfortunate....but simply due to the failure of the OP to do their own due diligence. The cruise line had no alternative but to deny boarding and there is no reason why the cruise line should bear any responsibility or financial penalty...since they did nothing wrong. It is not reasonable for cruise lines to deal with all the various Visa issues since each cruise can have passengers from many different countries...each with different visa requirements for each and every port.

 

 

 

Hank

I agree of course but a few years ago you probably remember the carnival splendor debacle on their maiden itinerary voyage around South America from Miami

Approx 150 American citizen pax were denied boarding in Miami due to not having Brazilian visas

Even if they agreed to stay on the ship in the. Brazilian ports they were still denied

Now in that case several factors came into play

1. It was a maiden itinerary and I believe a 1 time repo of the splendor

2. It was a 30 day cruise and more than likely senior citizens had to comprise a large number of those denied and may have been relying on a TA to handle the paperwork

3. It was long enough ago that not all bookings were done online so paper docs were in fact delivered to these pax so not sure why the cruiseline didn't pick up on the well known Brazilian visa requirement and remind pax in advance nor do I understand why the pax didn't know this

4. And this is the real key....Brazil has been requiring visas for at least the last 38 years from USA passport holders. I know I needed one in 1979 so the cruise line should have know this and communicated this to pax often and pointedly and yes primarily because the cruiseline had to know the age demographic of its pax and that they probably fell into that demographic that relies on others to do this stuff for them

You hank are a dyi but you know that not all in your age demographic are and are still old school when traveling

As an industrial engineer, I would have looked at this maiden itinerary and asked..." what do we as the cruiseline need to do differently with these ports?" The simple answer would have been ..let's take some time and manpower to make sure all our pax know about the Brazil visa requirement based on the high number of expected and currently booked USA passport holders that will be cruising.

5. Why? When a cruiseline knows they are going to a port with visa requirements and it's a maiden voyage it has to be assumed pax may be unaware if only because it is not a port the cruiseline has visited before

6. even when it's not a maiden voyage...cruiselines stress the need for visas...princess does an excellent job of this even with the easy to get at the port visa ports such as Istanbul

There was plenty of blame to go around with the splendor debacle...pax...TAs...CCL

Of course the op case is totally different because Canada does not require visas from USA passport holders and for the most part the vast majority of Alaska cruisers will be from the USA. Not all will of course but you can be sure the majority will be plus it's a weekly long standing itinerary and denied boarding due to visa requirements is more than likely not a common occurrence....however I'd venture to guess Hal does indeed mention pax are responsible if a visa is needed

However the bottom line here is every pax knows their nationality( even if the posters here think it's terrible to ask about it lol) and therefore should know if they need a visa by way of simple Google

Heck I'm off to Italy shortly and know full well I don't need a visa but I still double checked anyway

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Just wanted to react to the last post of luvtheships :). I do recall the Carnival fiasco....and we darn near were involved in another similar Brazilian fiasco on a 3 Continent Grand Princess cruise (many years ago). Many of those who are active here on CC, and experienced international travelers, know that Brazil, China, India, and Russia are always potential problems (with Visa issues). Others are not familiar with the problem and may or may not be given a heads up from their cruise line. In fact, many cruise lines even mislead their passengers (in order to sell overpriced cruise line excursions) when it comes to Russian Visas....but that is another story :{.

As Luvtheships posted, we are very experienced travelers...which certainly helps when it comes to planning and dealing with these type issues. Many other cruisers are not very experienced and rely (too much,...in our opinion) on cruise lines and travel agents. What is really unfortunate is that you simply cannot rely on cruise lines (or travel agents) when it comes to international travel. You need to check and recheck all the logistical issues including what to pack, air (or other transportation) arrangements, cruise payments, cruise tickets, Passport requirements, and possible Visa issues. And then there are the health related issues including pregnancy, inoculations, etc. One great thing about CC is that a single post will usually get you answers to all these questions and more. But call your cruise line or travel/cruise agent with the same questions and you are as likely to get misled...as to get accurate answers.

Even those of us with lots of experience can get frustrated with cruise lines. A few days ago we broke one of our personal rules...and decided to book air through Princess EZ Air. Our normal rule is to never book air through a cruise line (we could write a book about that issue) but in this case we were able to save about $3000 by using Princess EZ Air. After booking the air (online) we noticed that the online receipt only showed our first and last names...but also properly warned that names must perfectly match the names on Passports. So we called Princess and said we were concerned that our middle names were not included on their online documentation. The Princess rep called their air office and then told us "not to worry" because their web site was simply not programmed to show middle names on that particular screen. While many would just breath a sigh of relief....we are still quite concerned and will carefully follow-up on this issue. But this is just one more example of why travelers need to perform their own due diligence. Years ago you could easily find a decent professional travel agent who would dot all the i's and cross those t's. But now, you either become your own advocate...or you are simply rolling the dice and hope for the best. There are many posts across CC where folks who simply"hoped for the best" were denied boarding, missed their cruise, etc. So let the buyer beware.

When it comes to Visas, travelers should always check Visa requirements for each and every country to be visited (whether or not you plan to get off the ship). In the case of US Citizens (with a valid US Passport) the best source of information is the US Department of State's web site (they have country by country info). And it also pays to check each countries own government web site. We will do this on every trip...even though we have been to those countries many times...because policies often change (India is a good example). If you are a foreign national living in the USA you need to especially careful because you might be impacted by US regulations. And the Visa requirements for other countries are going to be based on your own Passport....not the fact that you simply live in the USA (or Canada). So let the buyer beware.....and do your own homework.

Hank

Yes I agree the op and his wife did indeed cause the problem but as far as Hal giving them something...nope

 

 

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So are you contending that, when someone does something careless that causes them loss, someone else owes them something?

I understand all that and thanks for the answers. But the airline industry will rebook you when issues are taken care of...

 

I worked for a major airline for 20 years and rebooked many for one reason or another with no fault of the airline.

Don't your follow the news? Major airline policies have changed in the last few years. A mistake like your wife's can get you a beating.

So are you contending that, when someone does something careless that causes them loss, someone else owes them something?

I believe the poster is saying just the opposite. Reread the last phrase, and in particular the last word, carefully:

but as far as Hal giving them something...nope

Since you are referring to Canada.....you might mention that even those who do not need a Visa (such as US Passport holders) might still be denied entry because of any kind of criminal record including something as simple as a Driving Under the Influence (DUI) conviction!

 

Hank

Denied entry yes, but in the case of a closed loop cruise originating in the US they would not be denied boarding, for the very simple reason that Canada does not receive a copy of the passenger manifest until after the ship has departed the US, so there's no way for Canada to tell the cruise line to deny boarding. Canada reviews the manifest after the ship's departure but before it makes a Canadian port call. What happens is that passengers with a DUI or other felony deemed unfit for entry into Canada will simply not be allowed to disembark in the Canadian port of call.

If the wife was not a permanent resident, she is here on some other kind of visa. Which implies she is not a novice to international travel. Nor is her husband, the OP. Pure negligent preparation on both parties. EM

Actually you make my point

 

There are so many countries that they should have known to check it out

 

Also why do you think anyone would need to hide their citizenship from any of those countries

 

She obviously is NOT in those countries now if she is looking to board a ship in Seattle so she was allowed to enter the USA in some way so why the need to hide it. PC for some reason taken to the extreme?

 

But let's be honest here....her documents/papers were simply not in order and it's possible that she didn't even have legitimate USA papers. To not at least consider this possibility just shows lack of knowledge of current issues and does not suggest any negative comment toward the wife.

 

Not saying illegal immigration is definitely the case just saying clear thinking COULD and WOULD consider that to be a possibility. Nothing more nothing less. Clear thinking also considers that they were just uninformed about visa requirements. Both are possibilities...to the clear thinker of course. Muddled thinking insists on not considering these possibilities and agrees with hiding the nationality.

 

These pax probably thought they were just taking a cruise to another USA state so thought she wouldn't have a problem

 

They needed to do the pride of America for that to happen.....assuming the wife had at minimum valid ID to board a plane to Honolulu

 

 

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How 'bout this? It's nobody's business where she's from. The OP only wanted to know about some good will vouchers from HAL despite the whole kerfuffle being their fault. He is right to not reveal where she's from, otherwise the cc busybodies would rush to give their full legal analysis and criticism. He knows they goofed, stop beating up on him (and her). There is a difference between "hiding" information and keeping information private that is no one's business. No one's business - and that includes me and you.

OMG, now there's speculation on his marital status. I do have some unsolicited advice for the OP: run and hide from the gossipy meddlers on cc as fast as you can.

I gotta go with Shorex on this one. Question asked and answered. This poor guy is out a lot of money, not to mention a vacation, and the sidebar assumptions on this thread have gotten ridiculous. He learned his lesson the hard way. No need to keep digging it in. JMHO.

How 'bout this? It's nobody's business where she's from. The OP only wanted to know about some good will vouchers from HAL despite the whole kerfuffle being their fault. He is right to not reveal where she's from, otherwise the cc busybodies would rush to give their full legal analysis and criticism. He knows they goofed, stop beating up on him (and her). There is a difference between "hiding" information and keeping information private that is no one's business. No one's business - and that includes me and you.

 

OMG, now there's speculation on his marital status. I do have some unsolicited advice for the OP: run and hide from the gossipy meddlers on cc as fast as you can.

+1

There is thread describing customs agents who demand a birth certificate in addition to an enhanced drivers license. The OP should make sure HAL is correct. Mistakes happen.

The poster booked a cruise an Alaskan cruise, leaving from (and returning to) a US port. Unlike some (many?) of the posters in this thread I can understand an honest mistake. Maybe they thought they could just stay on board, skip Victoria.

IATA has tool air passengers can use to check travel requirements. Airlines use the same tool when they validate passenger documentation. http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/

I agree the ultimate responsibility is with the customer BUT it would nice if the online check in process flagged issues. A pop up which said, you're a citizen of XXX. You need a VISA before you'll be allowed to board.

What do I think HAL owes the passenger nothing BUT if you want repeat business you try and work with a customer who made a mistake. Maybe $100 on board credit for a future cruise, want to be generous 10% of money lost. I don't know how long it takes for the OPs spouse to get a VISA. Contact the customer shortly before flash pricing and let them book a month or so before the cruise.

I almost think some posters derive sadistic pleasure in telling people it's all their fault, too bad, when there is an issue. A recent poster on the Celebrity board had friends who missed their ship (out of Vancouver) due to flight issues. Numerous posters told them their friends were out of luck due to PSVA issues. Illegal to let the people board in another port. Posters all but said they got what they deserved (cruise air). We later learned they were allowed to board at one of the ports.

 

IATA has tool air passengers can use to check travel requirements. Airlines use the same tool when they validate passenger documentation. http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/

 

The problem I foresee with recommending a site like the one above is that sometimes there are special exceptions for cruise passengers in transit (e.g., they have a port stop somewhere but they are not embarking or disembarking the ship in that country).

Turkey, for example, requires US citizens -- and many others -- to prepurchase an electronic visa prior to arrival by plane into the country. However, if you are a cruise ship passenger in transit -- arriving and leaving by ship -- you do not need a visa.

This is a source of endless confusion on these boards for as long as I've been here -- >10 years. Same with Egypt, and I'm sure other countries as well.

The problem I foresee with recommending a site like the one above is that sometimes there are special exceptions for cruise passengers in transit (e.g., they have a port stop somewhere but they are not embarking or disembarking the ship in that country).

 

Turkey, for example, requires US citizens -- and many others -- to prepurchase an electronic visa prior to arrival by plane into the country. However, if you are a cruise ship passenger in transit -- arriving and leaving by ship -- you do not need a visa.

 

This is a source of endless confusion on these boards for as long as I've been here -- >10 years. Same with Egypt, and I'm sure other countries as well.

I understand the IATA tool is for air travel. My point is cruise lines should be able to offer equivalent information to their customers.

I understand the IATA tool is for air travel. My point is cruise lines should be able to offer equivalent information to their customers.

No, cruise lines say it is passengers sole responsibity to get their traveling paperwork and visa in order before showing up at the pier. No babysitting, hand holding or free tutorial service provided on this subject. No freebie cruise voucher if you screw up. That's the deal.