Is River Cruising still good 'value' or is the market saturated?

From time to time threads pop up here after a river cruise has been interrupted by either forces of nature, low water , high water, strikes or broken locks.

Cruise companies scramble with alternative arrangements and sometimes passengers are satisfied but most often they are not.

The reason? Because their dreams of their long awaited river cruise have been shattered.

Even if things do go right, river cruising has changed a lot in the time since my first river cruise in 2001 to my fourth and most recent one May 2015.

While the price hasn't changed that much in that time, the 'value' has deteriorated in my opinion. I define 'value' as good use of my time, energy and money.

My first cruise on the Rhine Amsterdam to Basel 2001 was peaceful, leisurely cruising on a river with very few passenger river boats. River cruising was relatively unknown to the North American markets.

We docked right in the middle of towns like Boppard and Dusseldorf . We were able to walk to the city market center to visit pubs, restaurants or just a safe leisurely walk along the walkway.

Fast forward to 2015 where there are so many ships that we are piggybacked four deep in Koblenz or stuck in some seedy industrial location where there was nothng to see or do in the immediate vicinity of the ship.

So many more ships means so many more passengers at the highlighted shore excursions. At Heidelberg castle, there were nine Viking busloads of passengers..do the math...which meant touring the castle was a nightmare.

Obviously the mantra of 'built it and they will come' rings true for river cruising. More baby boomers joining the cruising market; more ocean cruisers looking for something new to do. Cruises are SOLD OUT months or years in advance.

But the river boat market is saturated and so the 'value' is not there in my opinion.

To mitigate some of the 'value' issues, I made a conscious decision to NOT spend the extra money and NOT book a balcony (as I do on ocean cruising) because with the over built, over sold market, most of the time you have no view from your cabin; you are either cruising at night or docked next to another ship. :eek:

Now you see it..

Now you don't.

I think the IDEA of river cruising is lovely so perhaps just a day cruise on the Middle Rhine is the happy soluiton to this situation.

But as far as putting out the expense of time, effort and money in the future, sadly for this cruiser, I think I have taken my last river cruise.:o

I don't disagree with you, sadly.

This is why we are trying to go to places like China, Cambodia and India before the river cruising there suffers the same fate.

From time to time threads pop up here after a river cruise has been interrupted by either forces of nature, low water , high water, strikes or broken locks.

 

Cruise companies scramble with alternative arrangements and sometimes passengers are satisfied but most often they are not.

 

The reason? Because their dreams of their long awaited river cruise have been shattered.

 

Even if things do go right, river cruising has changed a lot in the time since my first river cruise in 2001 to my fourth and most recent one May 2015.

 

While the price hasn't changed that much in that time, the 'value' has deteriorated in my opinion. I define 'value' as good use of my time, energy and money.

 

My first cruise on the Rhine Amsterdam to Basel 2001 was peaceful, leisurely cruising on a river with very few passenger river boats. River cruising was relatively unknown to the North American markets.

 

We docked right in the middle of towns like Boppard and Dusseldorf . We were able to walk to the city market center to visit pubs, restaurants or just a safe leisurely walk along the walkway.

 

Fast forward to 2015 where there are so many ships that we are piggybacked four deep in Koblenz or stuck in some seedy industrial location where there was nothng to see or do in the immediate vicinity of the ship.

 

So many more ships means so many more passengers at the highlighted shore excursions. At Heidelberg castle, there were nine Viking busloads of passengers..do the math...which meant touring the castle was a nightmare.

 

Obviously the mantra of 'built it and they will come' rings true for river cruising. More baby boomers joining the cruising market; more ocean cruisers looking for something new to do. Cruises are SOLD OUT months or years in advance.

 

But the river boat market is saturated and so the 'value' is not there in my opinion.

 

To mitigate some of the 'value' issues, I made a conscious decision to NOT spend the extra money and NOT book a balcony (as I do on ocean cruising) because with the over built, over sold market, most of the time you have no view from your cabin; you are either cruising at night or docked next to another ship. :eek:

 

Now you see it..

 

Now you don't.

 

I think the IDEA of river cruising is lovely so perhaps just a day cruise on the Middle Rhine is the happy soluiton to this situation.

 

But as far as putting out the expense of time, effort and money in the future, sadly for this cruiser, I think I have taken my last river cruise.:o

Sad but alas, too true....we try to cruise in the "shoulder" season when everything is still open but it's not as crowded because kids and teachers are back in school, but as you say, our population is getting older and we have more money than our grandparents and it's so much easier to travel these days that's it's not surprising the market is being flooded....like Pogo so eloquently put it: "we has met the enemy and he is us!" :D

I don't disagree with you, sadly.

 

This is why we are trying to go to places like China, Cambodia and India before the river cruising there suffers the same fate.

Which are rapidly becoming the Rhine/Danube of Asia!!

Which are rapidly becoming the Rhine/Danube of Asia!!

Agreed.

China is going to explode in the next few years I think as it is not only foreign tourism, it is their own national tourism that is set to push huge volumes of people towards the more attractive spots.

We will be in Cambodia in February so we'll see how that is by then.

River cruising is still a lovely way to travel. You get to see places that you would need to either drive to, take the train, or shudder, bus trip. To us, river cruising is the best choice. I never believed my RC would be like a Viking commercial. We never have a desire to sit in a bedroom and watch. Go out and take a walk when your ship is docked. That's the beauty of a river cruise

Wow, very insightful post remydiva, thanks! As someone who will not be taking a first river cruise until next month, I found your history lesson to be very interesting. I have experienced what I call the "success dilemma" in other industries/venues.

The good thing for me is since I don't know any better, I will probably love my trip and not know what it could have been! :D

River cruising is still a lovely way to travel. You get to see places that you would need to either drive to, take the train, or shudder, bus trip. To us, river cruising is the best choice. I never believed my RC would be like a Viking commercial. We never have a desire to sit in a bedroom and watch. Go out and take a walk when your ship is docked. That's the beauty of a river cruise

Uhm....you must have misunderstood me Got2Cruise...don't think I ever said I wanted to just 'sit in a bedroom and watch'. If that was your takeaway from my post, then you missed my point or I missed being more clear.

So just to summarize, the main points I was making were--

*Too many ships,

*too much double/triple/quad docking,

*docking in industrial locations instead of in the heart of the city AS IT USED TO BE and

*too many crowds (even at the end of April...shoulder season) in small local attractions

...all because the river cruising is busting at the seams with too many new ships coming on line (Viking to name just one) and the rivers are not able to handle the exponentially growing river cruise industry.

That's all I'm saying.

As for NoSpin, you are right..you won't know what to compare your first cruise to and I will bet you do have a wonderful time. Please report back your experience and let us know!

Uhm....you must have misunderstood me Got2Cruise...don't think I ever said I wanted to just 'sit in a bedroom and watch'. If that was your takeaway from my post, then you missed my point or I missed being more clear.

 

So just to summarize, the main points I was making were--

 

*Too many ships,

*too much double/triple/quad docking,

*docking in industrial locations instead of in the heart of the city AS IT USED TO BE and

*too many crowds (even at the end of April...shoulder season) in small local attractions

 

...all because the river cruising is busting at the seams with too many new ships coming on line (Viking to name just one) and the rivers are not able to handle the exponentially growing river cruise industry.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

As for NoSpin, you are right..you won't know what to compare your first cruise to and I will bet you do have a wonderful time. Please report back your experience and let us know!

If you're bothered by the rafting then you are in your room. That's the only time rafting affects one's pleasure. You want to sit in your room in port and look out the window. Btw my comments are my opinion not directed at anyone in particular.

River cruising is still a lovely way to travel. You get to see places that you would need to either drive to, take the train, or shudder, bus trip. To us, river cruising is the best choice. I never believed my RC would be like a Viking commercial. We never have a desire to sit in a bedroom and watch. Go out and take a walk when your ship is docked. That's the beauty of a river cruise

Oh my yes, I am a graduate of the "If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium" bus circuit. It was fun when we were young and active and could handle bags out at 6 a.m. bus leaves at 8! We got to see an awful lot and we met a lot of nice people along the way. But now, we're older, wiser and slower. We like river cruising because we only unpack once. Dinner is down the hall, not a bus ride away and being within walking distance of the shops and local cafes is a huge plus. We do not stay in our cabin for hours on end, but I really do like my french balcony when I am in my cabin and truth be told, I've never minded rafting. I've made no secret of my pleasure in sitting by the balcony door with the curtains open sipping a cup of coffee and waiting for whoever's on the other side to open their drapes too. I had tea and cookies with a lovely British couple on the Nile and since we were going in opposite directions really enjoyed sharing what he had seen and what was coming up. I also shared wine with a Russian couple on our Russian cruise....they didn't speak English, we didn't speak Russian and after a few hits and misses we discovered that we both spoke French!!! Bottom line is, the rivers are more crowded as are the museums, cathedrals and streets of our charming river town but river cruising will always be my favorite way to travel. :D

Hydrokitty - Thanks more than you can know for your post regarding rafting. You have provided a wonderfully positive alternative take on something that most river cruisers dislike intensely.

On our AMS-BUD cruise next year on Tauck, we will try to maintain that same delightful attitude in any rafting situation and will hope to meet some good people on the adjacent boat. Just the notion of sharing libations and snacks from boat to boat is a total hoot.

Cheers, Fred

My first cruise on the Rhine Amsterdam to Basel 2001 was peaceful, leisurely cruising on a river with very few passenger river boats. River cruising was relatively unknown to the North American markets.

 

We docked right in the middle of towns like Boppard and Dusseldorf . We were able to walk to the city market center to visit pubs, restaurants or just a safe leisurely walk along the walkway.

 

Fast forward to 2015 where there are so many ships that we are piggybacked four deep in Koblenz or stuck in some seedy industrial location where there was nothng to see or do in the immediate vicinity of the ship.

 

So many more ships means so many more passengers at the highlighted shore excursions. At Heidelberg castle, there were nine Viking busloads of passengers..do the math...which meant touring the castle was a nightmare.

 

...

 

 

I think the IDEA of river cruising is lovely so perhaps just a day cruise on the Middle Rhine is the happy soluiton to this situation.

 

But as far as putting out the expense of time, effort and money in the future, sadly for this cruiser, I think I have taken my last river cruise.:o

Thank you for your excellent and very helpful post! Even though I have not taken an overnight river cruise, I have taken numerous delightful day and evening cruises on European rivers. I often visit the river cruise forum and frequently have considered taking a week-long river cruise to make it easier for me to show my husband "my old stomping grounds" as it is much more difficult for me to walk distances due to some sports injuries I had that have "matured" into osteoarthritis.

I know that the best option for touring Europe is "boots on the ground," but river cruising seems easier physically for me now. However, as you have mentioned that the docking locations are no longer immediately near downtowns, it would not be easy to just stroll over to the pedestrian zones and shop, have a beer or visit the nearby sites at will.

One thing caught my eye a half hour ago while I was reading Travel Weekly online and I found it very disturbing. It was a comment made by Torsten Hagen, chairman of Viking Line (ocean and river cruises).

The disturbing comment he made was that he would "like to see the fleet grow to 10 ocean ships and 100 river ships by 2020."

Having not only toured Europe extensively, but also having lived there within a couple of miles of the Rhine river, I know that the kind of river traffic Torsten Hagen proposes will be detrimental not only to other river cruisers, but to Europeans who live near the rivers.

Thank you for your excellent and very helpful post! Even though I have not taken an overnight river cruise, I have taken numerous delightful day and evening cruises on European rivers. I often visit the river cruise forum and frequently have considered taking a week-long river cruise to make it easier for me to show my husband "my old stomping grounds" as it is much more difficult for me to walk distances due to some sports injuries I had that have "matured" into osteoarthritis.

 

I know that the best option for touring Europe is "boots on the ground," but river cruising seems easier physically for me now. However, as you have mentioned that the docking locations are no longer immediately near downtowns, it would not be easy to just stroll over to the pedestrian zones and shop, have a beer or visit the nearby sites at will.

 

One thing caught my eye a half hour ago while I was reading Travel Weekly online and I found it very disturbing. It was a comment made by Torsten Hagen, chairman of Viking Line (ocean and river cruises).

 

The disturbing comment he made was that he would "like to see the fleet grow to 10 ocean ships and 100 river ships by 2020."

 

Having not only toured Europe extensively, but also having lived there within a couple of miles of the Rhine river, I know that the kind of river traffic Torsten Hagen proposes will be detrimental not only to other river cruisers, but to Europeans who live near the rivers.

You got my interest up so i went online and found 2013 Travel weekly interview with Tor

http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Rolling-on-the-rivers/

maybe the article you read was more recent and thus had more bravado as this 2013 article said in part--

Moreover, Hagen said no one should "discount the possibility" that there will 100 ships in total before the end of the decade.

Interesting article...the guy certainly speaks openly but has very little filter on some of his comments about his target demographics to name one point.

Hydrokitty - Thanks more than you can know for your post regarding rafting. You have provided a wonderfully positive alternative take on something that most river cruisers dislike intensely.

 

On our AMS-BUD cruise next year on Tauck, we will try to maintain that same delightful attitude in any rafting situation and will hope to meet some good people on the adjacent boat. Just the notion of sharing libations and snacks from boat to boat is a total hoot.

 

Cheers, Fred

Thank you Fred....I find that you can make friends anywhere.....all you have to do is want to! :D

I guess we have been fortunate. I think we have experienced good value on our river cruises. Our river cruises, about 50 stops in total, infrequently doubled up and usually docked within easy walking distance of town centers or close to trams into the town center.

Our first river cruise, ten years ago, berthed in an industrial area in Nuremberg. Our most recent river cruise also berthed in an industrial area in Basel, where we had a continuous shuttle between the ship and the tram stop. Other than those two, the only other non walkable city center was Trier, where we had an hourly shuttle.

We have only been rafted up before going on an excursion and on our return the other vessel has gone, mind you getting ready to leave the boat whilst still in the cabin we have seen a few sites we weren't prepared for and we have also met however fleetingly some pleasant cruisers, never had the chance to exchange drinks etc. I can't remember docking in an inconvenient area when there has been time for a shore walk about. On the UK canals the expression 'rafted up' is not used the expression is 'breasted up' and it's a normal occurrence at popular sites, when it's busy or during a festival.

Whatever happens find the best side and ignore the worst, CA

Sad but alas, too true....we try to cruise in the "shoulder" season when everything is still open but it's not as crowded because kids and teachers are back in school, but as you say, our population is getting older and we have more money than our grandparents and it's so much easier to travel these days that's it's not surprising the market is being flooded....like Pogo so eloquently put it: "we has met the enemy and he is us!" :D

I agree.

We also travel in shoulder or off season. I cannot even imagine what the rivers and ports are like these day in peak periods.

This same thing happened with ocean cruising that we are seeing now with river cruising. I took my first as a young girl in 1969 and it was magical! For many years, I cruised and much enjoyed the traditional service and small ships where we were treated as guests and not wallets.

These days ocean cruising for the masses has evolved into an experience night and day from what I enjoy. Now we will only cruise on a small ship with premium or luxury line as we simply do not enjoy monster ships with thousands of passengers where selling you something is the main goal.

We began river cruising before the rivers became crowded and are very happy we were able to experience it then.

I guess we were fortunate last year when we took our first river cruise down the Rhine in July. Even though I believe it was the height of tourist season we were only rafted a few times and rarely the whole time in port. Like NoSpin I guess we didn't know what it was like 10 years ago but we found the entire experience so wonderful and found the vacation value so high that we have already booked two more cruises. We had a balcony and were able to make great use of it. I believe it was Breisach that we were docked at and I must have sat an hour with a cup of coffee on the balcony watching the Geese play. I spent several early mornings sitting on the balcony as we sailed down the river. And most all of our stops allowed us to get off the ship and walk either to the town itself or a park like setting along the Rhine. Great way to spend a vacation in my opinion.

Every forum on Cruise Critic has threads about how cutbacks or changes have diminished the experience. I guess I'm lucky that I'm by nature optimistic, since my experience on those "diminished" trips has always been great.

Every forum on Cruise Critic has threads about how cutbacks or changes have diminished the experience. I guess I'm lucky that I'm by nature optimistic, since my experience on those "diminished" trips has always been great.

And it isn't just cruising. Go visit some of the big Disney boards. As an aside, I did feel my Disney experience had less value and no hurry to go back. Their prices have escalated more than cruising.

I also in agreement on the deterioration of river cruising but this will not stop me from traveling on more. When I did my first river cruise in 2001 I think there were only three companies that catered to the US market...Viking, Uniworld, and GCT. My trip then had no optionals and hooked me on river cruising. I've now been on 14 with 3 more booked.

Cost on my preferred line (not counting airfare) really have not changed much in the past 14 years. In 2001 I paid $4000 for my single cabin. This same cabin in now $4500.

A story concerning rafting was when we were not allowed to pass thru the ship we tied up to and had to climb up/down the stairs to their sun deck to get ashore. This was in 2003 at Novi Sad, Serbia. Things must have been worked out because when we returned to the ship we allowed to pass thru.

And it isn't just cruising. Go visit some of the big Disney boards. As an aside, I did feel my Disney experience had less value and no hurry to go back. Their prices have escalated more than cruising.

I think Disney prices have escalated more than their attendance! :D

We have been river cruising since 2001. There was rafting even then. It has not dampened our love og river cruising--number 21 in Oct. Pat

You got my interest up so i went online and found 2013 Travel weekly interview with Tor

 

http://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/Rolling-on-the-rivers/

 

maybe the article you read was more recent and thus had more bravado as this 2013 article said in part--

Moreover, Hagen said no one should "discount the possibility" that there will 100 ships in total before the end of the decade.

 

Interesting article...the guy certainly speaks openly but has very little filter on some of his comments about his target demographics to name one point.

The article I quoted was, I think, from 2014.

However, a quick and dirty search of Travel Weekly (UK) brought up essentially the same information I posted, though it was not the exact article I referenced. (I am still trying to find that one.)

OK, so Travel Weekly UK's May 5, 2015 online edition states the following:

"Viking fleet could nearly double in next five years, says chief

Viking Cruises could grow its fleet to 10 ocean vessels and more than 100 Longships within the next five years, and branch out into Asia and South America, according to its chairman. The cruise line already has 63 Longships and has just launched its first ocean ship, Viking Star."

63 Longships already? Yikes. Sorry, Viking fans, but I see that as a very sad situation.

We are currently in transit from our 8th river cruise. Yes agree with others who like us began rivercruising sometime ago, it is getting very busy. Newcomers will not notice perhaps the difference. It would assist if cruise companies could coperate and not arrive at ports at the same times.

we were staggered at the number of ships and buses. Large groups shuffling thru street with guides. We dislike herding and went our own way when possible. Perhaps more companies will offer smaller groups. It is pleasent to river cruise but the experience is changing. Homework and careful attention to details is more important than ever.

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