New dining in The Colonnade

Help. Trying to make sense of what I am reading in other threads about the advent of Thomas Keller dining. Am I correct that what is now being offered is an every other day fixed set menu reservation only in The Colonade? If so, this is for me a seriously retrograde step. I hate the whole booking idea, which is my main "beef" with Silversea. So now one won't be able to pitch up and, if necessary, wait for an outside table ( one of the highlights of a Mediterranean summer cruise) even if there are empty ones, because they may be awaiting guests. Moreover, if there can be no substitutions on the set menu ( which is what I think people are saying), where does that leave our family party of 6 next summer for a special birthday with two vegetarians? At a stroke our option to eat outside, which is the main attraction of the Med cruise, is halved either because our table will now be allocated by a booking system and/or because we have no menu choice. This is progress? Shutting down choice? If I am correct in my interpretation of what I have read, then it's another nail in Seabourn's coffin for us. And why do this? I hope I am wrong in my understanding.

At this stage, I can't comment on what's offered for vegetarian guests in the new dining concept in The Colonnade but I strongly agree with you about the necessity for making a reservation being a retrograde step. It is definitely that for us and it was one of the factors that drove us from Silversea across to Seabourn.

On SS there was no alternative to the MDR if one didn't make a reservation in advance.

I suppose on Seabourn we do still have The Colonnade on alternate evenings, and Patio Grill when it's open.

"Shutting down choice" is a perfect summation and not my idea of luxury.

Someone else may be along who can advise about vegetarian choices, if not I'm on Odyssey in December and will update as much detail as I can regarding menu choices and how the reservations system is working.

... I'm on Odyssey in December and will update...

Please let me know how that works out - I'll probably be at the Sky Bar drinking dinner because I couldn't figure out where we were allowed to eat that day. Do you suppose they'll offer a tutorial?

Please let me know how that works out - I'll probably be at the Sky Bar drinking dinner because I couldn't figure out where we were allowed to eat that day. Do you suppose they'll offer a tutorial?

 

It sounds like room service has been untouched. I wonder if you can still get course by course service.

I am very pleased that this Thomas Keller whoop-dee-doo is finally being

reported for its downside. I mean, I personally could care less about French Laundry or Per Se or Chef Boyardee or whatever this guy does for the eager and those recognition seekers buzzing among his American eateries. And now that it's kinda landed on Seabourn ships we can see it's not all his own cows' exclusive creme fraiche.

So now this messiah from the magazines is imposing, via Seaboun, platters of hand-around dishes from a restricted-scope menu to the lucky lot who

are shrewd enough to corner the reservations list, thereby locking out the

less aware. And this also means that the "eat where you want when you want" style of dining choice is like sooo over among the 4 dinner dining areas?

Who thinks this is a smart move? Who wants this? Above are listed people who left Silversea which apparently only had 2 dining venue choices and one was a reservations only (probably with a surcharge). And these converts to Seabourn are saying the Colonnade will be reservations-only every other night for the Keller Foodies' Platter Brigade? Will the surcharge be far behind?

This sounds retrograde, restrictive, and vulgar.

I hope Seabourn knows what it's doing. And will figure out a way to accommodate those who like dinners at the Colonnade as they have always been. And vegetarians. Many of us will soon find out and will be back about this. That's from time saved arguing with Seabourn Square, like I expect others will do, about their Keller looky likey restaurant reservations, who are dying to be "in", for those hamburgers everyone seems so fascinated about on these threads.

Happy sailing!

It sounds like room service has been untouched. I wonder if you can still get course by course service.

You probably can still get course by course service, but with the proviso that you let them know several days in advance that you'll require room service on a specific day and time, and there probably is no longer any choice. So one starter, one main course, one pudding, all selected by SB:);)

Markham, I was reading comments on this very subject on another site recently and none of the Seabourn regulars were keen on these changes.

Some of us are mocked here for being Seabourn "cheerleaders", well here's one former cheerleader who is boarding a Seabourn ship in just about 6 weeks' time. Following a less than stellar cruise on Sojourn in September, coupled with considering these new dining changes, I'm not really looking forward to the cruise. I want to be open-minded and will remain so about the actual food, but not about the concept.

A little bird tells me that the current requirement to make a reservation for Keller evenings in the Colonnade may only be a trial and that the longer-term aim is to make it work without necessitating advance reservations. Not sure how it can work, or how accurate my source is in this instance, but let's hope.

Please let me know how that works out - I'll probably be at the Sky Bar drinking dinner because I couldn't figure out where we were allowed to eat that day. Do you suppose they'll offer a tutorial?

 

We're on the 20 day shorter segment of your cruise in December, so by the time we board you should be well up to speed in the new system. If not I'll see you at the Sky Bar for dinner, I'll bring some fruit from my room to soak up the alcohol.

Is the reality that Thomas Keller coming on board Seabourn is at least in part a way of the new speciality restaurant lessening costs through restricting choice, introducing reservations and promoting still further self service with family style dishes whilst accepting that some of his fine dining dishes will doubtless enliven and refresh the choices in the MDR at dinner. This is on top of relegating the MDR for the most part to a dinner only service.

Are these changes also a reflection on the impact of the introduction of the Encore class ships where presumably the new dining option will be used apart from the Sushi bar for the Keller family dining concept which somehow has to be incorporated into the Odyssey class ships which don’t have a dedicated space unless one is to be conjured up following refits.

If my reading of the deck plans for the Encore class are correct and I appreciate that they are not drawn to scale the MDR and probably the Grand Salon will not have the space to accommodate all passengers at one time – in practice with the varied dining options it is unlikely ever to be required to seat all at once.

It all seems to add up to a down grading in luxury and freedom of choice we have been used to and why for us Seabourn stood apart from the other top end lines. Seabourn needs to explain as to what is really going on as at the moment we are booking ahead blind as to what the position will really be regarding the dining options, when locations are opened and whether and for what reservations will in future be required.

Nigella and Harvey2442,

A couple of things:

I am on Odyssey in 9 days and so will assess the lay of the land pretty soon. I will be able to report what impact TK is having on all the restaurants. That will include R2 with its reservations system that I have disliked over the past couple of years when it was opened up for the few to book all of the nights and thereby exclude everyone else.

It will be interesting to me to see who wants to organize a grouping and then rush across to book them into the TK Colonnade evenings for these family style platters. It will be interesting, too, to see how Seabourn Square copes if the uber eager eaters mob them for reservations and how these unsuspecting young people deal with the disappointed on day 2 and the remainder of the cruise. (They barely cope now with R2 now!)

I wonder what Seabourn is up to and how they will make themselves clear, assuming they know already what they're in for- as Harvey2442 intimates. He's right that the Encore class may offer more space and flexibility for this TK stuff without the stresses that this change brings to Colonnade diners on the Odyssey class ships.

There is something else, too, that us full time and part time cheerleaders might need to confront. That is, is Seabourn trying to develop a new market segment of "Special Signature Experience a la Per Se on the Sea" punters who have not necessarily even cruised before. Those people wouldn't know or even care what's being sacrificed in pursuit of Seabourn's new executions, such as TK/Colonnade/Family Platters/Sorry, we are already fully booked for this cruise, come back next year/innovation. And they would be more susceptible to upsells too such as VIP reservation fees, as they are already familiar with them at these kinds of "exclusive" restaurants in America.

Aarrgghh!

So rather than assign myself a thankless project to make sense of this TK stuff, I

would prefer that Seabourn do so, soon. I will be all ears and eyes and I am already hoping for the best.

Happy sailing!

Once again the Quote function of CC isn't working for me, but Harvey, I just wanted to say that that the first sentence of your final paragraph is *exactly* how I feel about this currently.

Markham, I'm pleased you're on Odyssey soon as you're one of the posters here whose opinion about all things SB I respect very much.

Once again, I do realise that my posts are somewhat negative lately. The Sojourn cruise we took in September has caused that. I reiterate that if we hadn't already booked the Odyssey in December we would have preferred to take a lengthy break from Seabourn so we could return with a fresher attitude.

I accept that life is about change, and normally I embrace it, but I'm sad about what I see happening to SB for the future, as Markham has suggested is what I'm thinking too.

Even though we've only been cruising for about 5 years, I love it. I don't enjoy our land holidays nearly as much. I love being at sea, I love the ambience onboard SB ships. Seabourn is (was?) perfect for us.

I don't know where we'll go if we turn our backs on SB. There seems no viable alternative, Europa 2 being the best hope.

I wonder if some of the comments would be a bit less harsh if the chef in question was Gordon Ramsay, or Heston Blumenthal or perhaps someone with a French pedigree.

If what happened on the Odyssey was any indication of things to come I wouldn't worry about getting reservations. On the final night of the new menu being offered there were a whole 50 people signed up. It seems at that point passengers were unhappy with the TK changes, unhappy with the cuts to entertainment, unhappy with the cuts to activities, and unhappy with the large size of the new ships.

On land I like Kellers food, but I don't think the Ad-Hoc theme is the one best suited for Seabourn. It's his lowest quality food (and I say that very tongue in cheek) and service. Further, I don't find serving myself from a large platter to be luxury. Perhaps as a theme for the patio grill or R2 this would be fine.

 

I wonder if some of the comments would be a bit less harsh if the chef in question was Gordon Ramsay, or Heston Blumenthal or perhaps someone with a French pedigree.

 

 

.

Not from me, they wouldn't be. Can't stand Ramsay, and Blumenthal's messed about with food isn't my style at all.

I've expressed my enthusiasm and long-term, long-distance admiration for Thomas Keller on another thread and I'm so looking forward to visiting Bouchon Beverly Hills in January and a trip up to The French Laundry when I visit Palo Alto in the spring.

It's the concept of passing round a serving bowl, being told what to eat in a set menu and the lack of freedom of choice about where to dine when I'm onboard that's annoying me. I'm looking forward very much to trying the Keller offerings in the MDR. So, same as you, I guess?

Definitely agree that I'd prefer it as an alternate evening theme for Patio Grill than alternate evenings in the Colonnade.

TK has sufficient pedigree and I don't think that being French would help a bit. After all, you are describing conceptual changes, cut backs and limitations in

services/offerings across a fairly wide variety of categories. Perhaps closing the MDR for B & L was just the prelude.

Also, I wouldn't count on having TK's famous entrees in the MDR as they are extremely labor intensive....also, often market driven.

On the small ships one had to make a reservation for the Veranda (Colonnade equivalent) for dinner. So, in one way, this isn't anything new. There is also the nightly option of the patio grill (unless poor weather) which does not require reservations, unlike on the little sisters where sky bar grill was only available on a few nights and had to be reserved.

So all this change is not so unprecedented as some would make out. However, compared to what was previously on offer on the big ships, it does seem retrograde.

Reading through many of the posts here over the last six months I can't help feeling a sense of 'Goodbye Yachts of Seabourn - Hello HAL Luxe': piped music, closed MDR, Hostesses, ships with 600 pax and charges for speciality restaurants.....

Now that the initial excitement over TK (never heard of) has subsided and the reality appears to be 'less' rather than more, it does all seem to me to be fairly typical of mass-market sell-up hype. Promise the punters new heights of luxury, while the actual offering proves to be a thinly veneered cost-cutting measure.

I have often found that when 'New and Improved' is plastered all over a favourite product it usually means smaller and with less quality. Frequently all that is really new and improved is the profit margin.

Like others, I feel a little worried about our upcoming December cruise. I can only hope that the many little gripes and niggles expressed by posters recently reflect 7-day quickie in the Med syndrome. Like others, I will let you know.

I wonder that everyone posting here is a bit hasty, prematurely downgrading virtually every aspect of what the dining scene aboard Seabourn will be like without waiting to see what it will actually be like once they have the TK menus fully in place on all ships. I look forward to hearing more about diners' experience as opposed to some of the hysterical predictions of doom I'm reading here. The beginning of the end, it sounds like. For starters, I can't imagine that they will be cutting back on vegetarian options, especially if they are hoping to attract a younger crowd. We are on the Quest next May and fully looking forward to it. I'm sure we'll have some delightful meals, as well as some that we find a bit disappointing. Some meals will be in the MDR( which I always found to be quite nice at breakfast but a bit dismal at lunch), some will be in the Colonnade, some the Patio Grill and, maybe, even our suite. I'm sure we'll have some delightful meals and some that are disappointing. In truth, that's the way it has always been, big ship and small.

Oh how Bostonactor is right!!

All these CC hysterical predictions are completely misplaced.

We just left the Odyssey on Wednesday.

The MDR was open for breakfast, lunch and dinner. In fact some lunchtimes they were extremely busy, which actually upset my partner and myself as we prefer the calm and serene environment.

On every other night in the MDR, there is a TK menu insert. There was the choice of two starters, two mains and one dessert. Of course there are the normal SB bad boys that show up..........you all know the dishes, the ones you can predict that will be there. We did however note that the classics menu has been trimmed down but this is only to accommodate the TK trials.

As regards to the Colonnade, whoever said that the TK fixed menu was offered every other night was wrong. I think in our time on board it was offered four times in 15 days. The menu delivery is by way of a sharing platter. This is not to our liking, however, we tried it.....why not, your on holiday.....chill out! When we made a reservation we called the day before and had a allocation of times from 19:15 to 20:30........so really could not grumble at that.

What you all have to remember is that R2 is going to become the TK restaurant so once this comes online the MDR and Colonnade won't have the menus in them.

A friend of ours is a vegetarian and she said that the choices that she had were the best she can remember. One starter and one main on the TK insert for the MDR was a vegetarian option.

When the TK Restaurant comes online we were told that it will have two sittings which will be 45 covers I think. This came from a very reliable source as we travelled with an officer (who is usually Seattle based) when we flew back to the UK after leaving the ship.

We had an extremely good chat with them (over two hours in the Admirals Club) and it was very informative about not just the TK introduction but other new stuff on the horizon which they want to get In place on the current fleet before the Encore is introduced.

Now why don't you go back to moaning about smoking and children which is the usual on here!

jimmyw9

Apart from the quality and style of what is served, which of course is important, if reservations are required for dining venues, to avoid stressing about not being able to get the venue you want when you think you will likely want it, I would prefer to be able to book reservations online, starting 90 days or so ahead of departure, when ship excursion options and timings are also often lined up. Of course if your plans change, you could still cancel short-notice without penalty or having to reach a human, and others would likely easily scoop up your table. It would avoid mad-dash booking at boarding, or annoying insider-preferred-treatment bookings.

Silversea has online advance booking options for its non-MDR venues, and people report that they generally work out pretty well ( though there are occasional surprise bumps). I like being able to plan ahead in peace, on my ipad, and not have to rush to book reservations right on boarding to try and get the days I want when there is already a lot going on.

Europa2, where I will be for the first time in a few weeks, also has no advance dining bookings online for their 7 dining options, and there is apparently

little stress booking on boarding, though this may change, at least with their popular French venue.

jimmyw9 ....Now why don't you go back to moaning about smoking and children which is the usual on here!

.....Or perhaps update this list of First World Problems???

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/first-world-problems-top-50-2212642

Jimmyw9,

You are a ** star ** !!

So the TK trials will only result in additional choices in the MDR and a 2 sittings of the menus in R2 with reservations, leaving the Colonnade to its

open seating dinners. If only you had reported back earlier...

These explanations are especially appreciated. You spent so much time on them and also conducted interviews with those insiders at the Admirals Club. You really should work for Seabourn.

You mention smoking and children. Any further updates?

Happy sailing!

Markham

Have you had a personality by-pass, I don't think I have ever received a compliment from you before!

You are slightly wrong. There is a reservation system currently in place for the Colonnade for the TK menu on the nights it is offered. As I said it was for only four nights during our 15 day cruise. Once the R2 conversion to the TK venue is complete then this is the only place you will get that offering. As regards the two sittings this again relates to when the new restaurant comes on line. As I mentioned getting a reservation in the Colonnade was very easy with many timings being offered. They just want to know when you are turning up so that the TK experience can be fully appreciated.....which was the blurb on the card reminding you to show up.

We did not enjoy the sharing platter concept in the Colonnade and actually these are just trials so actually this may not figure in the final TK restaurant anyway. If it did then my source said that there would be a mix of this type of dining plus the usual TK fine dining you can get at his restaurants also.

We ate mostly in the MDR. Our waiter was excellent and even if we did not chose one of the TK dishes he asked if he could just order one so we could try a bite. He was very informed about the food each night. As I said we felt that only the classic menu had been compromised but this is just to accommodate the TK trials.

What everyone here needs to remember these are trials. A chance to sample what will come.........just relax and try not to board with all these hysterical rants in your head. They are trying to smooth things out.

We left the ship saying we thought the food was much better than we had on the Sojourn back in February around Asia and hopefully you will come to the same conclusion Markham since we had the pleasure of your company on that jaunt.

Hopefully we have left the Odyssey in a good enough state to greet you soon.

jimmyw9

Nigella and Harvey2442,

 

A couple of things:

 

I am on Odyssey in 9 days and so will assess the lay of the land pretty soon. I will be able to report what impact TK is having on all the restaurants. That will include R2 with its reservations system that I have disliked over the past couple of years when it was opened up for the few to book all of the nights and thereby exclude everyone else.

 

!

We will be on the folowing cruise ( 21 November) on Odyssey. Will you be able to post your observations from the ship so that we can board with expectations raised or dashed wrt the TK saga ( triumph or tragedy?). Most grateful if you could.

En passant,having been away from Seabourn ( and these Boards ) for two years,

It does seem that the Cheerleaders are less vocal and the Complainers more vociferous. And some of the former Usual Suspects are no longer posting - a pity.I hope that this is not a harbinger of a slide in Seabourn standards.

Oh, sorry to stray "off topic"!

Must read some posts on smoking and kids on board!

MARIANH,

It's good to hear from you after this dry spell!

Yes, I will write up some findings for this thread after a couple of days on the Odyssey cruise starting 9 Nov.

Apparently, and according to jimmyw9, Seabourn's aim is to settle into some routines involving the TK menus and R2. So in that respect, and in the absence of information about changes to what the ships offer, it should be understandable why there has been some confusion and conjecture by those who are looking forward to their cruises. And the Caribbean cruise season, Christmas and the winter cruises are almost here!

So I am reassured by jimmyw9's "insider" reports. It seems that the long and simple transatlantic run was a good choice for those trials, appropriate for crew training. And entertaining too for the guinea pigs. They seem satisfied enough, which is a good thing for the upcoming seasons.

We are clearer now about how the restaurants are evolving. That said, I don't get what jimmyw9 means when he talks about the "normal SB bad boys" in the MDR. If that's something the TK trials resolve following the transatlantic I am sure that would be in everyone's interests.

More later...

Happy sailing!

Hi Markham

The usual suspects ie bad boys are......Duck ala orange, tournedos rossini and the like. The normal things that appear on SB menus which we have seen for years and years which they do very well.

Just for clarity:

R2 is as before for now until it gets it make over into the TK venue.

MDR offers a TK menu every other night in addition to its normal offerings and classic menu.

Colonnade is by reservation when they have the TK sharing platter (which was offered four times on our 15 day stretch across the pond). All other nights in the Colonnade were as before a themed affair, Japanese, Steak etc etc......as I said before all the usual bad boys! (LOL).... That's a joke Markham.

I am not sure if SB would have wanted to have messed too many things up as there were I think from memory 65 diamond members on that cruise out of about 350 club members (and that was out of 440 total guests) so not sure if Guinea pigs is the right choice since there were people with many days and status and thus know what to expect.

Anyway Markham if you want to know more, let's take this off line and email me, you know where to find me.

jimmyw9

I wonder if some of the comments would be a bit less harsh if the chef in question was Gordon Ramsay, or Heston Blumenthal or perhaps someone with a French pedigree.

 

If what happened on the Odyssey was any indication of things to come I wouldn't worry about getting reservations. On the final night of the new menu being offered there were a whole 50 people signed up. It seems at that point passengers were unhappy with the TK changes, unhappy with the cuts to entertainment, unhappy with the cuts to activities, and unhappy with the large size of the new ships.

 

On land I like Kellers food, but I don't think the Ad-Hoc theme is the one best suited for Seabourn. It's his lowest quality food (and I say that very tongue in cheek) and service. Further, I don't find serving myself from a large platter to be luxury. Perhaps as a theme for the patio grill or R2 this would be fine.

You do name 2 famous "media" chefs , either you like both of them or otherwise you heavily dislike them.

I am quite often in London and i never intend to go to a restaurant owned by Ramsay or Blumenthal.

Why are cruise ships partnering with celebrity chefs ?? I am not going to Crystal to eat Nobu as well .

Just imagine which good ingredients could be purchased instead of the royalties paid to TK ???