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Kids on Seadream


Crabbyguy
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If you search this seadream forum, you will find years worth of discussion (sometimes heated) on this subject. Is it increasing? It seems to be though it has been an issue from time to time for years. It is also becoming a big issue over at Seabourn.

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I can understand a Seaborne ship, as it's twice the size (only been on once) but Seadream needs to keep it's "yacht" atmosphere. They can't accommodate everyone, and if they want the "utter seclusion" that they tout, they should say no where appropriate.

I heard it may have been the owners friends as well. Who is the owner of Seadream?

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Has anyone seen an increase in kids on Seadream? A friend just got off and told me there were 5 on board and lots of people complaining - one pooped in the pool? I think he was on Seadream 2[/quote)

 

If this keeps ups, they will have to change the name of the cruise line to "SeaPoop." :eek:

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I can understand a Seaborne ship, as it's twice the size (only been on once) but Seadream needs to keep it's "yacht" atmosphere. They can't accommodate everyone, and if they want the "utter seclusion" that they tout, they should say no where appropriate.

I heard it may have been the owners friends as well. Who is the owner of Seadream?

 

Atle Brynstad (probably misspelled) who also was a founder of Seabourn. We too have been aboard with him, his family, his friends and their families. They take over the ship and leave the fuel bill to us lesser types. One of his entourage was most willing to tell all who would listen that he and his family were onboard free of charge as they were friends of the owner.

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Kids seem to be an on/off situation -- we've been on with very well behaved ones -- and those not so much, but never as bad as FT and Jim have experienced. And Miami is well aware of the issue, I suspect.

 

I've also been on board with the owner and haven't had any problem with him -- have met two of his daughters (who are always studying) and they seemed very nice. Now that's not to say that all his friends are as nice :eek: But I've also been on with other groups that were truly annoying but guess there is no requirement to be a delightful guest if you can afford the fare :rolleyes: But wouldn't you love to know what the crew says about them when they are below???

Vandrefalk

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The people with the kids were Norwegian. According to my friend it was a family from Norway, celebrating a birthday. Don't know if they are friends of the owner or not. I think Seadream should alert the other past passengers, at the least.

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First, don't see a problem for the owner of SeaDream to invite friends

to cruise with him gratis. After all, it is his shipline.

 

Secondly, many countries have transportation laws regarding "public accommodation"

whereby children cannot be denied passage. To continue to operate in those countries, they MUST accept children.

 

Having said that, I believe SeaDream can do a better job in advising

other potential guests when there are many children coming aboard,

leaving it to them to decide whether they wish to cruise under those

circumstances.

 

Have made 20 trips on SD without incident, and yes there were at times

children aboard, but overall well behaved. I think the crew can rein

the kids in IF they become a nuisance. As to "pooping" in the pool,

I assume that was an unfortunate and isolated incident.

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First, don't see a problem for the owner of SeaDream to invite friends

to cruise with him gratis. After all, it is his shipline.

 

Secondly, many countries have transportation laws regarding "public accommodation"

whereby children cannot be denied passage. To continue to operate in those countries, they MUST accept children.

 

Having said that, I believe SeaDream can do a better job in advising

other potential guests when there are many children coming aboard,

leaving it to them to decide whether they wish to cruise under those

circumstances.

 

Have made 20 trips on SD without incident, and yes there were at times

children aboard, but overall well behaved. I think the crew can rein

the kids in IF they become a nuisance. As to "pooping" in the pool,

I assume that was an unfortunate and isolated incident.

 

I agree, if it is his ship, he can bring who he wishes. The problem being that when his large entourage feels privileged and takes over areas of the ship, it leaves us dopes who are paying expensive fares something much less than that what is advertised. And when the "Boss" is on board, the crew acts differently, as do most of us when our boss is around. The proper thing for him to do, IMHO, is to pull the ship out of service on the weeks he wants it and bring all the friends he wants. Don't waste my money on your trip Mr. B. We agree that if a large group or children are booked, a notification would be appreciated. Then it would be my choice to sail or not. As it is, it is, as others have noted, a $10,000+ crapshoot.

As far as "public accommodation" laws, SeaDream, as far as I can tell would not be constrained by them under either Norwegian or US Maritime Law. A number of cruise lines in Europe especially, are kid free and advertised as such. P&O has kid free ships but not all of them. Saga and others are completely child free. A reasonable compromise would be to label cruises as "Family Friendly" or "Adults Only". Dave, if you have 20 SD cruises with no incidents you have been very lucky. The problem is that the crew for the most part does not reign in the kids but instead allows them to take over certain parts of the ship which then become unusable for the adult passengers. The pooping in the pool is simply disgusting. Yes, you would hope that it is an isolated incident but I know personally of more than one occasion of diapers in the pool or hot tub. Same difference if you ask me. We used to sail SD twice a year. Lately we have made other choices. Costa Rica is, hopefully, the right time of year/right itinerary to avoid some of these issues. Time will tell. I wish you were sailing on our voyage as your luck seems to run better than mine where this issue is concerned.:eek::D

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SD is governed (1) by the country where it's flagged and (2) maritime law. Stopping in ports subjects it to certain regulations of those countries (such as public health and safety) but it can target its market as all adult. If it were a ferry providing a service to the public it's different. We have had a number of voyages with well mannered children aboard but two with hellions and disappearing parents, both during school holidays. So while I adore SD we will only sail during shoulder or off season unless SD develops a policy of refunds when children are booked.

 

PS in our cases the crew could not rein the children because the parents didn't see anything wrong with the behavior and the captain did not intervene soon enough.

 

FT

Edited by frequent traveler
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Wow, thank you for your replies. We have been on Seadream - its one of our favs, but no, we don't think it's the right thing for children. I remember when there was a rule about no one under 10 or 16? Now it's any one over 6 months? I totally agree they should advise especially past guests - who are accustomed to no children on seadream, to advise every passenger when a child will be on the sailing. This should be a new rule.

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Interesting thread, as there seems to be more of a shift towards making SD more 'kid friendly' now in order to fill more cabins.

 

We have been cruising with SD since 2006, and in our 10 or so (have lost count now) cruises we have primarily traveled off season (if there is such a time anymore!). So, we've been pretty fortunate re: having any real "kids issues" on board, compared to some of the other posters here. The few times that we did have a child or two on board with us they were well looked after by their parents so we rarely were even aware of their presence. But there's the rub - not all parents feel it is *their* responsibility to supervise their children once they get on board...and THAT then becomes a problem for the crew, who must pull away from their usual duties and routines to intervene, and paying passengers who had anticipated an all adult cruise.

 

So don't know whether these negative accounts with kids on board stem more from a timing issue (vacations, when kids are out of school) or if this is becoming more of a trend on SD -- but I HAVE noticed a recent shift in SD's marketing where they mention: '112 guests' as opposed to '56 couples', which is interesting.

 

Unfortunately, not all adult passengers have the luxury of traveling "off season", and with too many kids on board at one time SD is apt to lose some of its loyal and returning passenger base. At the same time, if the owner of SD feels that catering to large groups (w/families) brings in more revenue by filling up otherwise empty cabins we may just see a real shift in its overall passenger mix. And, unfortunately, that will be our cue to look elsewhere.

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Just wanted to jump in here on this important topic of kids on SD. We are on SD1 this week and next in the Black Sea. For those who haven't read it I started a separate ongoing thread about this voyage which despite about 9-10 kids younger than teens has so far worked out. I say so far because as the thread starts and as noted on the thread about last week's voyage to Istanbul that preceded us and where we got in this did not start well. Kids were running up and down the deck 3 hallway and at least one father of some of the kids thought it was funny. My strategy was simple: if I didn't draw the line right there by making a federal case out of it out loud and to the crew still checking guests in then the parents and crew would think it was acceptable. We almost didn't rebook after our first cruise in 2008 back when they advertised 56 couples which was a big plus to us. When I wrote that we had kids despite the 56 couples advertising we were told they couldn't block kids. We too will reconsider our future voyages, three already on reserve, if this and any future voyage is less than enjoyable because of kids issues. We all have to lobby SD to do better or vote with our pocketbooks as to how we spend our travel dollars.

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Just wanted to jump in here on this important topic of kids on SD. We are on SD1 this week and next in the Black Sea. For those who haven't read it I started a separate ongoing thread about this voyage which despite about 9-10 kids younger than teens has so far worked out. I say so far because as the thread starts and as noted on the thread about last week's voyage to Istanbul that preceded us and where we got in this did not start well. Kids were running up and down the deck 3 hallway and at least one father of some of the kids thought it was funny. My strategy was simple: if I didn't draw the line right there by making a federal case out of it out loud and to the crew still checking guests in then the parents and crew would think it was acceptable. We almost didn't rebook after our first cruise in 2008 back when they advertised 56 couples which was a big plus to us. When I wrote that we had kids despite the 56 couples advertising we were told they couldn't block kids. We too will reconsider our future voyages, three already on reserve, if this and any future voyage is less than enjoyable because of kids issues. We all have to lobby SD to do better or vote with our pocketbooks as to how we spend our travel dollars.

 

JES you are right on the mark. Since our last SD voyage we have taken at least 4 cruises that would have been SD trips due to exactly what you say. I would be on SD in the Caribbean every winter if we could depend on that money buying the advertised product. Unfortunately it does not happen as often as it does happen (in our experience). We are taking a chance on Costa Rica because we both have wanted to go there for a long time and SeaDream (if they are doing the real SD that week) seems a perfect fit. I really had a battle with Lois as she is not wanting to risk another kid trip.Needless to say, it better be good in CR or we will meet you and other SD buddies somewhere else in the future. SD management does not seem to care about this issue. It is a real shame as SD is unique when they are providing the product as advertised. There are lots and lots of places to take kids. SeaDream does not have to be one of them.

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Frustrations by regular SD clientele with Miami appears to be reaching critical levels on the subject of irresponsible parents and their disruptive children.

 

We can moan as much as we like but for God's sake "shoot off" an email to your TRAVEL AGENT (never book directly with SD: complaining as a single passenger is a complete waste of time. believe me) and do the following:

1. Register complaints of unacceptable situations.

2. Demand a statement of:

- children policy

- what precautions are taken to cater for children that minimise disturbance to passengers

- what actions are taken if parents ignore reasonable responsibility of their children

- whether known irresponsible parents are allowed to make future bookings.

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Frustrations by regular SD clientele with Miami appears to be reaching critical levels on the subject of irresponsible parents and their disruptive children.

 

We can moan as much as we like but for God's sake "shoot off" an email to your TRAVEL AGENT (never book directly with SD: complaining as a single passenger is a complete waste of time. believe me) and do the following:

1. Register complaints of unacceptable situations.

2. Demand a statement of:

- children policy

- what precautions are taken to cater for children that minimise disturbance to passengers

- what actions are taken if parents ignore reasonable responsibility of their children

- whether known irresponsible parents are allowed to make future bookings.

Over 10 years , I have had two TAs who specialize in luxury cruises get very frustrated with the lack of responsiveness from SD management. I know we can't post names of TAs here but if you can point me in the direction of one who can get a response from SD on this issue I will gladly post my e-mail address. Since after multiple crossings, spending Christmas and Easter, 2 BtB in the Med, and I've lost count of the Caribbean voyages, and 2 Company charters, the last one I signed the contact for, gets no response on this issue, I would love some help. To paraphrase one of my favorite characters, "Frankly, my dear, I don't (think SD management) gives a da*# (since children pay full fares).

Notice I say management , it can be really tough on the crew when hellions are on board. They hate it as much as we do.

 

Until more of us walk, and it was painful to stay away from SD this year after 21 days last year, nothing will change. Right now we can travel primarily in the school holidays and I can spend a lot less money to have a balcony to retreat to if out of control kids snorkel in the hot tub until the last two days of a SD voyage.

 

FT

Edited by frequent traveler
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Just after Pam Conover joined Sea Dream, I sent her an email on their policy of allowing children on board.... I agree 100% with the comments that SeaDream should focus on Adults only, and prohibit children from their cruises... And I encourage any of you with similar concerns to send an email to her. It certainly can't hurt to express your concerns to her. We have been lucky so far, having had no children on any of our cruises on SeaDream, and we hope that our luck holds.

 

And her response is copied below:

 

"Thank you for raising your concern regarding the possibility of having children on board. Our current policy does not prohibit children but all of our marketing is based on the product being an adult experience. We have no programming for children and provide no discounts for them. Occasionally, especially during holiday periods, they are on board. When this occurs we advise the parents of the lack of facilities for children and also advise them of the behaviour that is expected while they are on board.

 

I hope that I have addressed your concerns that we are not going to be making any changes to try and attract more families with children to sail with us."

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Just after Pam Conover joined Sea Dream, I sent her an email on their policy of allowing children on board.... I agree 100% with the comments that SeaDream should focus on Adults only, and prohibit children from their cruises... And I encourage any of you with similar concerns to send an email to her. It certainly can't hurt to express your concerns to her. We have been lucky so far, having had no children on any of our cruises on SeaDream, and we hope that our luck holds.

 

And her response is copied below:

 

"Thank you for raising your concern regarding the possibility of having children on board. Our current policy does not prohibit children but all of our marketing is based on the product being an adult experience. We have no programming for children and provide no discounts for them. Occasionally, especially during holiday periods, they are on board. When this occurs we advise the parents of the lack of facilities for children and also advise them of the behaviour that is expected while they are on board.

 

I hope that I have addressed your concerns that we are not going to be making any changes to try and attract more families with children to sail with us."

 

Like you, I emailed her about this. To date, I have received no reply of any kind.

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Just after Pam Conover joined Sea Dream, I sent her an email on their policy of allowing children on board.... I agree 100% with the comments that SeaDream should focus on Adults only, and prohibit children from their cruises... And I encourage any of you with similar concerns to send an email to her. It certainly can't hurt to express your concerns to her. We have been lucky so far, having had no children on any of our cruises on SeaDream, and we hope that our luck holds.

 

And her response is copied below:

 

"Thank you for raising your concern regarding the possibility of having children on board. Our current policy does not prohibit children but all of our marketing is based on the product being an adult experience. We have no programming for children and provide no discounts for them. Occasionally, especially during holiday periods, they are on board. When this occurs we advise the parents of the lack of facilities for children and also advise them of the behaviour that is expected while they are on board.

 

I hope that I have addressed your concerns that we are not going to be making any changes to try and attract more families with children to sail with us."

 

Speaking from experience, while SD may advise them of the expected behavior, they do nothing to enforce it.

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I know Pam Conover from her days at Seabourn and she is a talented executive but her above response was the biggest, most evasive non answer I have seen since Ellen Bettridge's reply to the Silver Shadow CDC debacle.

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They might/might not monitor the boards, but it doesn't hurt to express your opinions directly to Pam. This is a very competitive business, and they wouldn't know what might cause passengers to decline one by one unless it was specifically pointed out to them ... and these boards are a way for prospective clients to get opinions.

 

I encourage that all customers who feel that kids under a certain age should be not allowed to send an email. Granted "adults" can sometimes cause problems also, but not to the extent that kids can. I just don't think that they belong on SeaDream. There are lots of other cruise lines that can accommodate them.

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Case in point on SD1 tonight. After our first dinner outside this voyage - a great night with a full moon and calm seas - we came down back steps to pool area to walk back to our room via concierge area. Most if not all of the many kids this week are part of a big group of 17 or more. Several kids were in the darkened main salon jumping up and down on the furniture while the adults are upstairs out back. Granted it didn't take us but a minute to walk by even as other kids came bounding down the hallway. The point though is that having kids like that on board takes away from the atmosphere that SD sells as yachting not cruising which in turn justifies the premium prices. We saw a crew member removing the closed sign from the jacuzzi as we were making our way toward the door. Water on the deck suggested kids had recently been in the pool or jacuzzi. Maybe we are being too sensitive or too picky but at these prices I think we are all justified. It just detracts from the experience in ways big and small. It is also a risk many including us may not decide to take when it comes to future voyages since while some kids will be better or worse than others one doesn't know for sure as to a given voyage until it is too late.

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