Dress Codes Change Again

Hi David. Nice to read your acknowledgement that times and customs change.

 

Now don't get upset, but there are people in the world who eat with various implements such as chopsticks, and some eat with the utensils God gave them - their fingers.

 

 

 

And perhaps even more shocking is that there are those whose plates (if they have a plate) are always clear because there is no food.

 

 

 

All this is must seem very odd to people such as yourself who were taught their way was far superior to any other. That's something we all need to get over.:)

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Salacia

No Salacia you are wrong. My mother would be aghast to read your comments if she were still here. In wartime Britain she always drummed into us that we should be grateful for the food we had, basic though it was, and that somewhere there was someone who would have been glad of any food wasted, Superior, my mothers teaching? I feel quite insulted by your comments and that you could imagine that my post in any way suggested this.

So am I upset by this. Yes.

David.

It's not a question of whose "superior" or who considers him/her self better. It's also not about who cleans their plate. It's just a simple matter of etiquette, tradition, etc.. This is not the seventeenth century. So there's no need to use a wooden spoon. For the enjoyment of everyone, and for the sake of the total atmosphere on the ship, everyone should make some effort to conform to the dress guidelines.

Maybe, Cunard should create a new class, called "American Class". For those who prefer to dress in shower shoes on formal nights, and use a wooden spoon, or even their fingers, a special section of the dining room would be reserved. For those with a very liberal attitude about dress, they might enjoy sitting at a table where everyone wears their cleanest T-shirt on formal nights.

No Salacia you are wrong. My mother would be aghast to read your comments if she were still here. In wartime Britain she always drummed into us that we should be grateful for the food we had, basic though it was, and that somewhere there was someone who would have been glad of any food wasted, Superior, my mothers teaching? I feel quite insulted by your comments and that you could imagine that my post in any way suggested this.

 

So am I upset by this. Yes.

 

David.

David, how do you think your post #95 would be interpreted by North Americans in particular?

Speaking of North Americans you wrote "Presumably that's the way they were taught as children, very different from my generation where elbows off the table and always clear the plate were rigorously enforced." That strikes me as a pot shot at North Americans not having been taught properly as you were. On a thread about the dress code, you brought up the way North Americans eat - which met with your disapprobation and could be taken as an insult by anyone who does not use eating utensils in the same manner as you do.

I hope you understand that my intent was not to insult you, but rather to strongly respond to your negative comments about North Americans and to illustrate that there are cultural differences which hopefully we can tolerate - especially when it comes to something as benign as cutlery.

Regards,

Salacia

Interesting to read all the comments in this thread. We have cruised several times and we have also used a ship as a means of transport several times. Without trying to offend any body, the Queen Mary 2 from Southampton to New York and viceversa is for us more a means of transport than a cruise. We find an exageration to have to wear long dresses or dinner jackets on the QM2. We are well educated people, with good table manners (including the different customs at tables like the use of chopsticks or fingers if necessary).

We do prefer cruise lines with a more relaxed dress code than Cunard and we take those cruiselines whenever posible. However for the time between April and September if we want to do a transatlantic, only the QM2 is available. No shorts or tshirts for us but also no long dresses and dinner jackets. We used to dress formal when we started cruising for example at Silversea Cruises and at the QM2. Now not anymore. And it is good so.

David, how do you think your post #95 would be interpreted by North Americans in particular?

 

Speaking of North Americans you wrote "Presumably that's the way they were taught as children, very different from my generation where elbows off the table and always clear the plate were rigorously enforced." That strikes me as a pot shot at North Americans not having been taught properly as you were. On a thread about the dress code, you brought up the way North Americans eat - which met with your disapprobation and could be taken as an insult by anyone who does not use eating utensils in the same manner as you do.

 

I hope you understand that my intent was not to insult you, but rather to strongly respond to your negative comments about North Americans and to illustrate that there are cultural differences which hopefully we can tolerate - especially when it comes to something as benign as cutlery.

 

Regards,

Salacia

I am a North American and I am appalled by the behavior of so many Americans. With two generations having been raised by wolves it should not be a surprise but it is still jarring when one tries to find civilized places to dine and stay to be confronted by the "let it all hang out" crowd.

Hi there

I have a similar question. I am a first time cruiser and are going with cunard. The dress code says after 6pm women can't wear sandals but I have high heeled open toe shoes. Can I wear them.

Thank you

Hi there

 

I have a similar question. I am a first time cruiser and are going with cunard. The dress code says after 6pm women can't wear sandals but I have high heeled open toe shoes. Can I wear them.

 

Thank you

Hi there

 

I have a similar question. I am a first time cruiser and are going with cunard. The dress code says after 6pm women can't wear sandals but I have high heeled open toe shoes. Can I wear them.

 

Thank you

Yes you can, tezzatips.

I believe the prohibition against sandals (and sleeveless tops) applies to men only:

"...Please note that after 6pm, shorts and blue or worn denim (for men and women); sandals and sleeveless tops (for men) are not considered appropriate within the ship..." copied from https://ask.cunard.com/help/cunard/life-on-board/dress_code

Bon voyage,

Salacia

Hi there

 

I have a similar question. I am a first time cruiser and are going with cunard. The dress code says after 6pm women can't wear sandals but I have high heeled open toe shoes. Can I wear them.

 

Thank you

Yes, you can wear them. If sandals after 6pm are a dress code violation, I should have been tossed overboard by the "fashion police" long ago. I've worn dressy sandals or open toe shoes lots of times. I don't know why the dress code says that--certainly Birkenstocks wouldn't be appropriate, but dressy shoes that are open toe or "strappy" are fine.

Welcome to Cunard! (and to Cruise Critic)

Rather than moving to a new continent, why not travel by a different mode? For those who don't care about an elegant atmosphere and a really special experience, why on earth would anyone travel on Cunard. The Carnival experience might suit you better if it suits your itinerary. Even better than that, why not take an airline? The dining experience might be down to your standards.

Rather than moving to a new continent, why not travel by a different mode? For those who don't care about an elegant atmosphere and a really special experience, why on earth would anyone travel on Cunard. The Carnival experience might suit you better if it suits your itinerary. Even better than that, why not take an airline? The dining experience might be down to your standards.

If you are commenting on my response to sal's over the top being offended post then you need to reread my post. I am very traditional and love Cunard for holding to a higher level of dress code and general tradition than any other cruise line.

I'm sorry you misunderstood. I agree with you. I'm referring to the "anything goes" crowd, those who won't conform to dress code, and those who can rationalize any behavior.

Just come off QV and passengers constantly ignored dress code and I never saw anyone turned away from dining room or theatre - even on formal evenings!

Just to update what I observed on QM2: The first formal night had very few long dresses but there were far more on the second formal night. Perhaps some wanted to see just how formal was formal and decided to underdress at first. A lot of women don't like to be significatnly more or less dressed than the others.

On the second formal night I saw at least two men get turned away from Britannia for not wearing a tie.

Tonight was informal, but a lot of women were wearing nice dinner dresses. No long dresses, but informal on QM2 is a lot dressier than "elegant" on most other lines.

Just to update what I observed on QM2: The first formal night had very few long dresses but there were far more on the second formal night. Perhaps some wanted to see just how formal was formal and decided to underdress at first. A lot of women don't like to be significatnly more or less dressed than the others.

 

On the second formal night I saw at least two men get turned away from Britannia for not wearing a tie.

 

Tonight was informal, but a lot of women were wearing nice dinner dresses. No long dresses, but informal on QM2 is a lot dressier than "elegant" on most other lines.

Thanks for the update, Blue Riband. Your observation mirrors what I have observed over several voyages/cruises on QM2.

Keep calm and wear a gown! :D

Cheers,

Salacia

Just on the subject of table etiquette I do notice that some North Americans have a novel, to Brits anyway, system of cutting the food using knife and fork, then laying down the knife and using just the fork to spear the food to mouth.

 

Presumably that's the way they were taught as children, very different from my generation where elbows off the table and always clear the plate were rigorously enforced.

 

Times change, customs change I suppose.

 

David

 

 

I find the whole idea amusing that there is just one right way to do anything. I grew up in the 1940s in America and we were taught to only use the knife to cut food. Then the knife was returned to the table or the side of your plate, your fork was only used in the upright position and one arm was returned to your lap. Elbows on the table - never. In fact, I am appalled when I see people using their knives as a sort of shovel to push food onto their fork and then they keep the fork upside down while putting the food into their mouths but that is how many people were taught. And remember that the manners that I learned came from my grandparents who were born in Europe. Which is correct? Who's to say.

Also, I think the whole Cunard atmosphere regarding dining has changed considerably. I was on the QE2 during its inaugural year in 1969 and there was just one Grill Room and it was smaller and VERY exclusive. Today both Queen's Grill and Princess' Grill are so much bigger that they almost look like regular dining rooms.

If a gentleman really wants to be formal the correct dress and terminology is "evening clothes" which in no way is a "tux". Tuxedos used to be only for waiters and staff. Check out Downton Abbey. That is why most major men's clothes designers are trying new designs for mens' formal wear. Personally I think a well-cut dark suit and beautiful tie is more distinctive than looking like the wait staff.

The fact that the word "formal" is used today on many cruise ships when the dress is anything but does make it confusing for passengers who may board the QM2 without having done proper research. Some tolerance is necessary.

And I think Maitre D's are instructed these days by upper management to be very sensitive to this whole issue, even on Cunard. It seems that offending anyone is something that all staff tries to avoid. Not always a good thing I agree but in that way the times are changing.

But as Brexit has just proved and David Cameron has reiterated - you can't go back.

True or False: The hallmark of a classy restaurant is whether the waiter places the napkin on your lap.

True or False: The hallmark of a classy restaurant is whether the waiter places the napkin on your lap.

True, but only one small element :)

True or False: The hallmark of a classy restaurant is whether the waiter places the napkin on your lap.

FALSE.

It's your job to put your napkin on your lap. Just some people don't understand, that when you sit at a table the first thing you should do is lift the napkin off the table, therefore the waiters have to give them a nudge in the right direction.

Stewart

I'm a young American who sails Cunard because of the tradition and elegance. Rather harsh comments towards us! I dress up every night on board in cocktail dresses, some long, some short. I love that on Cunard others do the same, it's a nice atmosphere. But, I also dress in cocktail dresses on Disney cruises in the evenings. I could not care less if we are the only two in a cocktail dress and suit or jacket. When I go to dinner or out for the evening on the ship, I dress up. For him, not for anyone else. On Cunard, it's just a bonus that everyone else does it too.

On a completely unrelated note - I prefer knife rests. I've thought about bringing my own on board...Step it up, Cunard and get some knife rests!