Norovirus

Hi everyone,

we had a lovely cruise on Queen Elizabeth, arriving back today. During the cruise I was unlucky enough to get the dreaded. As you know, even if you are very clean there are always people who aren't so careful in their habits. Some lines in the Carnival brand don't change for medical help given in this situation. As I had not eaten or drunk anything off the ship - and not been off at the last port they recognised that I must have caught it on the ship. Had a miserable time but that is a risk you take in any crowded place I know.

What has been other's experiences of this on Cunard or any other Carnival brand? Please don't tell me it doesn't happen - this is not a criticism of Cunard. We are cruisers of 20 years plus and this is only the second time I have caught it - out of 31 cruises I feel I haven't done badly. Of course I would never expect anything back for days missed but I was a little surprised about the bill. Thanks Teresa

PS super ship, 2nd time on her and smooth sailing all the way. I had forgotten how gorgeous the food is on Cunard!

Does UK (mandatory) travel insurance cover the bill? I'm pretty sure that US travel insurance would cover on a secondary basis (and many US health insurance policies cover non-routine foreign medical expense on a reimbursement basis).

My wife's regular insurance (US Medicare supplement) paid 80% of the ship medical bill and travel insurance paid the remainder (this wasn't for Noro).

Hi and thanks for your reply. My travel insurance has a £100 excess - I think most do in the UK. I can't understand why different Carnival brands have different medical rules. The money wasn't the real issue. Also we [the whole ship] had no fresh water on board for over 5 hours after leaving Mykonos due to a flood. A fellow cruiser [a doctor] thought this may have had a lot to do with it.

Not just this issue but many including the rudeness of drinks waiters when shown a soda package sticker- in bars not in the excellent dining room- rather soured our experience of this cruise. One table waiter at dinner even interrupted our conversation to tell us we needed to move so he could get ready for the next sitting. It was 7.45 at the time!

Anyway that is off topic but thanks for your help,

Teresa

A broken water main would have absolutely nothing to do with a noro outbreak. The water is continuously chlorinated while circulating around the ship to prevent just this.

The water eventually coming out of the taps was brown. Water did not circulate at all for more than 5 hours. I'm not saying it caused the Norovirus just expressing the concern of a very experienced doctor.

A broken water main would have absolutely nothing to do with a noro outbreak. The water is continuously chlorinated while circulating around the ship to prevent just this.

If they do not store water having no clean water to wash your hands for 5hrs before handling food or after going to the toilet would certainly cause the spread of Norovirus. Yes it is continuosly chlorinated but if water was turned off and there is no storage of water then 5hrs without any water would be a great concern towards spread of disease if people couldnt wash their hands during that period.

The water eventually coming out of the taps was brown. Water did not circulate at all for more than 5 hours. I'm not saying it caused the Norovirus just expressing the concern of a very experienced doctor.

Yellow or brown water after a shutdown of the water system is common, and is caused by the chlorine scale that forms on the inside of the pipes drying out while the water is off and flaking off into the water.

Even the fact that the water didn't circulate for several hours doesn't mean that it would become contaminated with noro, since it had been chlorinated for the entire time it had been on the ship, both in the water tanks and while circulating around the ship. Unless someone with noro had sneezed directly into the open pipes, there would be no way that noro would have been introduced.

Yellow or brown water after a shutdown of the water system is common, and is caused by the chlorine scale that forms on the inside of the pipes drying out while the water is off and flaking off into the water.

 

Even the fact that the water didn't circulate for several hours doesn't mean that it would become contaminated with noro, since it had been chlorinated for the entire time it had been on the ship, both in the water tanks and while circulating around the ship. Unless someone with noro had sneezed directly into the open pipes, there would be no way that noro would have been introduced.

I believe the point was that there was no water to wash hands or anything else for 5 hours. Needless to say, without hand washing, there is a definite route of transmission.

We were on a QM2 Caribbean cruise one December several years ago and the last night of the cruise, tap water was unavailable ship-wide for several hours. I thought of all those hands that weren't being washed :eek: Coincidence or not, there was a noro outbreak on the next cruise. -S.

Dear S,

thank you for your reply. Yes that was my point but I may not have made it very well! I know other people had Norovirus at the same time as me, just don't know how many.

I will carry on and complain to Cunard, not about the event and my illness, but about the charge. I don't expect to get anywhere but feel I must try. The Purser's Office was so bad at communicating it was frustrating.

Thanks again and in spite of the virus and the 'kennel cough' we both have missing being on that lovely ship!

I believe the point was that there was no water to wash hands or anything else for 5 hours. Needless to say, without hand washing, there is a definite route of transmission.

 

We were on a QM2 Caribbean cruise one December several years ago and the last night of the cruise, tap water was unavailable ship-wide for several hours. I thought of all those hands that weren't being washed :eek: Coincidence or not, there was a noro outbreak on the next cruise. -S.

Whether there is water available or not sanitising hand gel is a must for us. We carry our own as well as using the dispensers available at the various dining and other areas throughout the ship.

Sadly, however, we see so many people walk past the dispensers without sanitising, it's a wonder we don't get more outbreaks.

The gel you can buy isn't effective against viruses. Cunard uses a formula that is affective against Norovirus but the protocol for it to be effective needs more than the half squirt you're likely to get from an attendant.

The gel you can buy isn't effective against viruses. Cunard uses a formula that is affective against Norovirus but the protocol for it to be effective needs more than the half squirt you're likely to get from an attendant.

That's interesting.

In my internet research I found maybe 4 or 5 brands which claim effectiveness against norovirus.

Yellow or brown water after a shutdown of the water system is common, and is caused by the chlorine scale that forms on the inside of the pipes drying out while the water is off and flaking off into the water.

 

Even the fact that the water didn't circulate for several hours doesn't mean that it would become contaminated with noro, since it had been chlorinated for the entire time it had been on the ship, both in the water tanks and while circulating around the ship. Unless someone with noro had sneezed directly into the open pipes, there would be no way that noro would have been introduced.

Nobody is saying the water would become contaminated with norovirus but viruses would spread like wild fire if people were using the toilets not being able to wash their hands and then hadling food or touching surfaces i.e. handrails, door handles or lift button which would then spread and cause viruses like noro virus. Noro virus is a virus spread airborne by humans and does not come from contaminated water.

Fortunately I have never had noro on any Cunard ship, but I did on a Fred Olsen ship. Medication and visit by the doctor is free, and the time you are confined to your cabin you can claim on a future cruise. They also allow you to access the movies fro free allowing you 2 per day. I personally think this should be standard across all cruise lines if the cruise out of the UK whoever the ultimate owner is.

That's interesting.

In my internet research I found maybe 4 or 5 brands which claim effectiveness against norovirus.

Not that I had norovirus, but during my recent cruise on the Europa 2, the doctor gave me Braun's Softa-Man Acute gel to use.

Hi and thanks for your reply. My travel insurance has a £100 excess - I think most do in the UK. Teresa

For medical expenses my policy has a £75 excess, but I paid extra to remove excesses from the Policy.

Also I have a Cruise Extension which, among other benefits, pays £50 per completed 24 hour cabin confinement.

Hi people

thanks for all your thoughts there. May have to change our travel insurance for the future I think. Good for Fred Olsen. I think that is a forward thinking idea. I started the thread as I know Carnival ships and some other Carnival brands do not charge for this. I am going to take it up with head office - yes I know something akin to bashing your head on a brick wall there! It really isn't the money but the idea that they admit I caught it on board. And of course the issue with the water.

I put up with the long lecture by the nurse on hand washing [i'm an infant teacher!], stuck to the rules re remaining in the cabin and offered to pay for the medication part of the bill.

Thank you Cunarders for not having a go at me for the criticism of your beloved company - yes I do get many , many of the reasons you guys sail with them. Thanks again Teresa

That's interesting.

In my internet research I found maybe 4 or 5 brands which claim effectiveness against norovirus.

Oh, that's interesting. I'm only aware of the VF481 Foulation of Purell, which seems only to be available to institutions (and/or isn't sold in the US). Of you look at the pump bottles outside of Britannia the Purell they use is VF481 (but even then it requires 90 seconds of scrubbing).

Oh, that's interesting. I'm only aware of the VF481 Foulation of Purell, which seems only to be available to institutions (and/or isn't sold in the US). Of you look at the pump bottles outside of Britannia the Purell they use is VF481 (but even then it requires 90 seconds of scrubbing).

 

That product is available online in the UK through Amazon and other companies.

This is what one supplier's site says about it:

"Purell VF481 Antiviral Sanitising Hand Gel

Reduces human Norovirus by 99% after 15 seconds contact. Use 3ml of the gel and rub onto the hands and between fingers for 15 seconds before it fully evaporates."

We were also on QE when the water supply was cut-off from 4pm - 9pm.

It meant that all passengers and crew were unable to wash their hands before first and second sitting dinners.

A difficult situation to obviously manage.

Hi Welshred,

sorry we didn't meet you. Yes I wonder about that really. These things happen of course but handling them is another matter.

For those in the UK Boots do an anti viral hand foam that also tackles noro virus

http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Advanced-First-Aid-Anti-Viral-Hand-Foam-200ml_1036207/

they also sell it in larger quantities for you to decant

That product is available online in the UK through Amazon and other companies.

This is what one supplier's site says about it:

"Purell VF481 Antiviral Sanitising Hand Gel

Reduces human Norovirus by 99% after 15 seconds contact. Use 3ml of the gel and rub onto the hands and between fingers for 15 seconds before it fully evaporates."

In the US we can only get it in bulk (a case of 24 2-ounce bottles or three or four 1200 ml dispensers).

Sometimes I'll buy from the UK site but for Purell the UK sellers won't ship to the US.

The Sydney strain of Noro virus can last up to two weeks on inanimate objects . Hand sanitizers are not capable of killing this particular strain. Vigorous hand washing is the most important way to deter the spread of the virus.

That being said, what is the one item that you get on a cruise which gets the most "foreign" contact? Your room key. When you hand it to the security to be scanned, they touch it. When you order any drink for which you pay, the servers touch it. When you purchase anything onboard, it is touched by someone else.

The elevator buttons can be the cause. Any of the hand rails can be the same.

This is not easy to prevent. Just be cautious. Wash your hands while singing "Happy Birthday" twice.

http://www.decodedscience.org/2014-stomach-flu-powerful-sydney-strains-gastroenteritis-update/41088

Most hand sanitizers are ineffective against Noro, full stop. I didn't see whether the antiviral sanitizers have any effect against Sydney, at least in that article. Did I miss it?

Looks like the introduction of real handwashing stations in Kings Court was a good measure.