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Question re: Grats...select vs traditional dining


okiehokiepokie
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We've always done Select with prepaid gratuities. Have never done the traditional dining.

 

Questions here are how are gratuities assigned and paid with traditional?

 

Are they a fixed amount per stateroom per each night actually dining in the MDR..or based on the total number of nights cruising? Meaning we would avoid the assessment if we ate on shore or the OV...for example. Are they left up to our discretion? (doubtful). How 'bout if we dine with Specialty...then how are the grads assigned.

 

Also, breakfast in the MDR. Can traditional diners take breakfast in the MDR? How would the grad be handled then?

 

TIA

 

Cheers,

OHP

Edited by okiehokiepokie
new thought
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It's the same amount each night no matter if you eat dinner in the MDR or not. The gratuity doesn't just cover the MDR staff but the buffet staff as well. The gratuities cover not just dinner but breakfast and lunch too.

 

Similarly, if you spend a night on shore, the gratuities for housekeeping staff are charged for every night if the cruise, whether you are in your room or not.

 

 

If you go to a specialty, the fee covers the gratuity there.

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It's the same amount each night no matter if you eat dinner in the MDR or not. The gratuity doesn't just cover the MDR staff but the buffet staff as well. The gratuities cover not just dinner but breakfast and lunch too.

 

Similarly, if you spend a night on shore, the gratuities for housekeeping staff are charged for every night if the cruise, whether you are in your room or not.

 

 

If you go to a specialty, the fee covers the gratuity there.

 

OK, thanks.

 

So why then does =X= require prepaid grats with Select but not Traditional? Maybe they don't require...and I'm just not aware? If that is the case then what is the advantage of prepaying...other than just convenience?

 

TIA

 

Cheers,

OHP

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OK, thanks.

 

So why then does =X= require prepaid grats with Select but not Traditional? Maybe they don't require...and I'm just not aware? If that is the case then what is the advantage of prepaying...other than just convenience?

 

TIA

 

Cheers,

OHP

 

Gratuities were required to be paid on Select because, for purposes of dining staff, you might be sitting with different staff each night. Therefore, assigning gratuities to each set of servers in different sections for each night is much harder than just having gratuities pooled among all servers in the Select dining section.

 

Your gratuities also cover stateroom housekeeping staff as well.

 

As far as why to prepay, for many it's an expense that's covered before they board, and they don't have to worry about the gratuities being charged to their cabin each day of the cruise, and they paid with the CC on file for the sailing. Many like to get as many expenses out of the way in advance as possible.

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Yes, some people like the convenience of pre-paying so there isn't a large bill at the end of the cruise. Some like to spread their expenses out over several billing cycles on their credit card, and this is one expense that can be paid in a different billing cycles from the Final Payment (typically the largest payment you'll be making). Some receive gratuities as part of a promotion or from their travel agents, too.

 

Others like to wait until the end of the cruise, especially if they have a large amount of on-board credit and will be using it to pay the gratuities.

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Groups of people that would purposely not eat at their traditional dining table so they would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night IMO ruined it for us. They seem to think the cruise line pays the crew so much that they don't need to leave a tip.

 

Boy if they only knew the truth. The crew needs the gratuities to even make a fair living.

 

Same with the cabin stewards. They would purposely avoid seeing them on the last day so they wouldn't have to tip.

 

I know, I know, a tip should be earned, not a given, but the chosen few ruined it for everyone.

 

IMO it gets me angry to think that people who pay thousands of dollars to cruise could not spend a mere fraction of it to tip.

 

Maybe I am more of a traditionalist but we always give the waiters and stewards additional cash for a job well done. One time we had a waiter who had a wife at home expecting a baby and we gave him a little something for the baby and you would have thought we gave him a million bucks. And no, I didn't think he was playing us for fools.

 

BTW you can always go to guest services to get the prepaid tips removed if you think your service was poor.

 

At least this prepaid system gives the crew a fairer distribution.

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Groups of people that would purposely not eat at their traditional dining table so they would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night IMO ruined it for us. They seem to think the cruise line pays the crew so much that they don't need to leave a tip.

 

Boy if they only knew the truth. The crew needs the gratuities to even make a fair living.

 

Same with the cabin stewards. They would purposely avoid seeing them on the last day so they wouldn't have to tip.

 

I know, I know, a tip should be earned, not a given, but the chosen few ruined it for everyone.

 

IMO it gets me angry to think that people who pay thousands of dollars to cruise could not spend a mere fraction of it to tip.

 

Maybe I am more of a traditionalist but we always give the waiters and stewards additional cash for a job well done. One time we had a waiter who had a wife at home expecting a baby and we gave him a little something for the baby and you would have thought we gave him a million bucks. And no, I didn't think he was playing us for fools.

 

BTW you can always go to guest services to get the prepaid tips removed if you think your service was poor.

 

At least this prepaid system gives the crew a fairer distribution.

 

NP....thanks for the history. Just curious regarding your first sentence point...

would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night. The collection of tips back then has a direct handing of cash from the cruiser to the staff? It wasn't a charge to the stateroom folio? Couldn't =X= address that by charging the stateroom? Maybe =X= was trying to maintain the concept of direct interaction/appreciation? and like you typed not all cruisers were aligned with that traditional approach?

 

Sorry for the followup and like you typed, not looking here on this thread, to go the direction of the purpose of tipping. Just looking for some background since we are relatively new to Boatland (as my one-and-done cruising BIL likes to call it)

 

Cheers,

OHP

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Groups of people that would purposely not eat at their traditional dining table so they would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night IMO ruined it for us. They seem to think the cruise line pays the crew so much that they don't need to leave a tip.

 

Boy if they only knew the truth. The crew needs the gratuities to even make a fair living.

 

Same with the cabin stewards. They would purposely avoid seeing them on the last day so they wouldn't have to tip.

 

I know, I know, a tip should be earned, not a given, but the chosen few ruined it for everyone.

 

IMO it gets me angry to think that people who pay thousands of dollars to cruise could not spend a mere fraction of it to tip..

 

I can understand where you are coming from but I believe that everyone should be able to make their own decisions regarding how much they tip, or even if they consider a tip is appropriate, without other people trying to make them feel less of a person if their decisions/actions don't match up. I am not advocating removing or not paying any tip, far from it, but I still believe that tips should be earned and if they are routinely added without the need for 'service over and above' the requirements of the job then there is no incentive for staff to work hard. I know in America that the service staff pay scales are seen to be low and that they do rely on tips to make up the difference to what would be considered a 'living wage' to most of us. However, cruise staff mainly come from low paying countries and the money they earn and send home does go a lot further in their homeland than if they lived in USA, but I do recognise that they work very hard for long hours. However, many of them can be seen going ashore in designer clothing and with the latest gadgets such as mobile phones etc. having been able to send money home and still have enough cash to keep back to afford to buy these items. On the other hand many cruisers are 'seniors' from all over the world (not just USA) and they themselves have had to work very hard all their lives and are now mostly living on a smallish pension (for example the state pension in UK is £145 per week equivalent to $188 - and even this amount is only achieved if you pay contributions for minimum of 35 years, otherwise it is less). Many of these have no further pensions and manage to live mainly by adding on extra cash from the savings they made during their working life. Many have never cruised until they retired, and are hoping to have a few good holidays whilst they are able - so they are not all 'cash rich' as you would have us believe.

My point is this - we would all love to be able to flash our cash and tip everyone we felt deserved it but sometimes it is not possible. Therefore before you make derogatory comments about others try to consider what their situations might be. I am not trying to have a go at you personally, but it would be nice if everyone who complains about others stopped to think before they spoke. It would make the world, and Cruise Critic a far more tolerant place......just saying!

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Thank you salad muncher for expressing your view in such an articulate manner. Posters on these boards should be more respectful and less judgemental of their fellow cruise passengers. In my opinion, it should be the cruise lines themselves who should be responsible for their employees receiving adequate wages. Additional tipping should be at the sole discretion of the passenger and based on the quality of services received, as well as his or her own financial circumstances.

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Thank you salad muncher for expressing your view in such an articulate manner. Posters on these boards should be more respectful and less judgemental of their fellow cruise passengers. In my opinion, it should be the cruise lines themselves who should be responsible for their employees receiving adequate wages. Additional tipping should be at the sole discretion of the passenger and based on the quality of services received, as well as his or her own financial circumstances.

 

Thank you very much, your comments are appreciated. I have always felt this way, however having expressed this opinion on other boards of CC on occasions the results are I usually get insulted and its always assumed (and stated) I never pay grats and that I am somehow 'stiffing' the staff. This is far from the truth as my situation enables me not to worry too much about extra grats etc.

The thing is, I know many people who live very frugally on a weekly basis but then use their megre savings to enjoy a cruise to bring a little joy into their mundane lives. Paying over and above the cruise fare for them can have a huge impact on their non cruising life. I am not stating that the majority of cruisers are in this position, but some are and it is up to all the cruising community to realise and respect this.

As you say it is the Cruise Lines that are responsible for 'stiffing' their staff, not the paying passengers and what we all should be focusing on is forcing the Cruise Lines to pay a living wage and not try to supplement their profits by pitching cruisers against each other in the form of daily grats!

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I can understand where you are coming from but I believe that everyone should be able to make their own decisions regarding how much they tip, or even if they consider a tip is appropriate, without other people trying to make them feel less of a person if their decisions/actions don't match up. I am not advocating removing or not paying any tip, far from it, but I still believe that tips should be earned and if they are routinely added without the need for 'service over and above' the requirements of the job then there is no incentive for staff to work hard. I know in America that the service staff pay scales are seen to be low and that they do rely on tips to make up the difference to what would be considered a 'living wage' to most of us. However, cruise staff mainly come from low paying countries and the money they earn and send home does go a lot further in their homeland than if they lived in USA, but I do recognise that they work very hard for long hours. However, many of them can be seen going ashore in designer clothing and with the latest gadgets such as mobile phones etc. having been able to send money home and still have enough cash to keep back to afford to buy these items. On the other hand many cruisers are 'seniors' from all over the world (not just USA) and they themselves have had to work very hard all their lives and are now mostly living on a smallish pension (for example the state pension in UK is £145 per week equivalent to $188 - and even this amount is only achieved if you pay contributions for minimum of 35 years, otherwise it is less). Many of these have no further pensions and manage to live mainly by adding on extra cash from the savings they made during their working life. Many have never cruised until they retired, and are hoping to have a few good holidays whilst they are able - so they are not all 'cash rich' as you would have us believe.

My point is this - we would all love to be able to flash our cash and tip everyone we felt deserved it but sometimes it is not possible. Therefore before you make derogatory comments about others try to consider what their situations might be. I am not trying to have a go at you personally, but it would be nice if everyone who complains about others stopped to think before they spoke. It would make the world, and Cruise Critic a far more tolerant place......just saying!

 

First I was not complaining about others just making observations that I have personally witnessed.

 

Second tipping is not in general part of your European mindset and it's been said many times here that Europeans are just poor tippers in general. The idea that someone who spends a more than a thousand dollars or more on a cruise plus airfare and a hotel is going to be bankrupted by a five pound note is to me totally ludicrous. So maybe that's another reason why the cruise lines decided to make tipping prepaid. In America tipping is just considered good manners and expected in some amount.

 

And like I said if you don't think a prepaid tip is earned you can have it removed at Guest Services.

 

If you're living so close to the edge making $188 a week than maybe you should be traveling on a more affordable cruise line ( not being insensitive at all , just being realistic ).

I personally save every year squirreling away money and traveling with the lowest costs. You won't find me in Aqua class.

 

And if you think I am being personally derogatory that is a misinterpretation.

 

I do agree with the poster who stated that the cruise lines should pay the crew more than what they do. If the cost of cruising is raised a little bit so be it.

 

Hope your next cruise is an enjoyable one.

Edited by NordicPrince
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You can compare the salaries reported by various employees for all the cruise lines on glassdoor.com. Typically, a room steward will earn about $10 an hour in combined salary and from the tip pool that is common now, and waiters from that amount up to about $15 an hour. Bartenders are higher than that, with most reporting about $3,600 per month in combined salary and tips on their checks.

 

Those are not slave wages, but include the daily service fees / gratuities in the total. If you want to reduce the amount of money available to pay the employees gratuities and if the line allows it, you can often reduce the daily fee. I don't, because I consider it a cost of cruising and calculate it in the final price. Most lines charge this service fee now and have moved away from the envelopes (although someone told me Disney now includes envelopes for "extra" gratuities on the last night).

 

I sail a lot on NCL where there are evidently many more people who reduce the service fee than on other lines (at least there's much more discussion there). NCL has a lot of Filipino crew members, so I looked at average wages for various occupations in the Philippines. Crew members work 48 hours a week, typically, and at $10 an hour, earn a very good salary for their home country .... in the top 20% of the wage earners, comparable to an American earning about $90,000 per year. They earn more than most nurses, mechanics, accountants, etc. I did this because I would not cruise if I thought the workers were being exploited for my pleasure. Instead, they work hard and earn every penny, and earn a good living. So I don't have an ethical problem with spending money on a cruise.

 

Why continue with the "salary plus tips" method of paying the workers, when in fact most receive a contracted amount each pay period that doesn't vary over the course of their employment term?

 

One reason might be that the employees want it that way. I didn't check all countries, of course, but in the Philippines there is no income tax on tip wages. I'm told some eastern European countries, like Romania, are the same way. The cabin steward would be in a 30% tax bracket if all of that money was from wages, but if most of it is from "gratuities" then the money flows to them, and their families, tax free. I think an end result of me reducing the daily service charge amount might be that the cruise line would have to pay them more "salary" than "tips", and they would take home less money to their families.

 

So, a lot of that is what I'll call "educated speculation", but is what I think the current system is. I started cruising when the last night, before dinner, I had up to 8 envelopes to give cash tips out to the Maitre d, head waiter, assistant waiter, beverage waiter, assistant beverage waiter, and sometimes a bread waiter, assistant bread waiter and busser. I had to calculate an amount like .25 per day per person in our party to each of these people. I like the new system much better, although the dining rooms are crowded on the last night as well (there were a lot of empty tables on DCL and Princess on those last nights with the envelope-tipping method).

Edited by fshagan
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NP....thanks for the history. Just curious regarding your first sentence point...

would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night. The collection of tips back then has a direct handing of cash from the cruiser to the staff? It wasn't a charge to the stateroom folio? Couldn't =X= address that by charging the stateroom? Maybe =X= was trying to maintain the concept of direct interaction/appreciation? and like you typed not all cruisers were aligned with that traditional approach?

 

Sorry for the followup and like you typed, not looking here on this thread, to go the direction of the purpose of tipping. Just looking for some background since we are relatively new to Boatland (as my one-and-done cruising BIL likes to call it)

 

Cheers,

OHP

 

Up until about five years ago the passengers tipped the crew in cash.

Near the end of the cruise you received a packet in your stateroom with about 5 envelopes and suggested amounts. One for was waiter/assistant, one for maitre d, one for cabin steward, one for housekeeping manager. You calculated daily suggestion by how many in your cabin then by how many nights of cruise. Then you put that much cash in that envelope.

I don't recall amount but say steward $3 day times 3 in cabin for 10 night cruise would be $90. You gave steward his envelope and housekeeping's envelope.

When you went to dinner the last night you gave waiter his. The maitre d always made the rounds the last night looking for his envelope. This worked in traditional dining where you had the same waiter each night. Some did not show up for dinner the last night to avoid paying tips.

The suggested amount for each add up to what is now the daily amount.

It took time though to calculate and you had to have lots of cash so the new way is much easier.

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I can understand where you are coming from but I believe that everyone should be able to make their own decisions regarding how much they tip, or even if they consider a tip is appropriate, without other people trying to make them feel less of a person if their decisions/actions don't match up. I am not advocating removing or not paying any tip, far from it, but I still believe that tips should be earned and if they are routinely added without the need for 'service over and above' the requirements of the job then there is no incentive for staff to work hard. I know in America that the service staff pay scales are seen to be low and that they do rely on tips to make up the difference to what would be considered a 'living wage' to most of us. However, cruise staff mainly come from low paying countries and the money they earn and send home does go a lot further in their homeland than if they lived in USA, but I do recognise that they work very hard for long hours. However, many of them can be seen going ashore in designer clothing and with the latest gadgets such as mobile phones etc. having been able to send money home and still have enough cash to keep back to afford to buy these items. On the other hand many cruisers are 'seniors' from all over the world (not just USA) and they themselves have had to work very hard all their lives and are now mostly living on a smallish pension (for example the state pension in UK is £145 per week equivalent to $188 - and even this amount is only achieved if you pay contributions for minimum of 35 years, otherwise it is less). Many of these have no further pensions and manage to live mainly by adding on extra cash from the savings they made during their working life. Many have never cruised until they retired, and are hoping to have a few good holidays whilst they are able - so they are not all 'cash rich' as you would have us believe.

My point is this - we would all love to be able to flash our cash and tip everyone we felt deserved it but sometimes it is not possible. Therefore before you make derogatory comments about others try to consider what their situations might be. I am not trying to have a go at you personally, but it would be nice if everyone who complains about others stopped to think before they spoke. It would make the world, and Cruise Critic a far more tolerant place......just saying!

 

I agree with your comments but will add that the tip amount for the crew will be met either through the daily charge or added as a higher fare if it were to go away. I have read that the way it is done results in a tax savings because if it were part of the cruise fare it would be taxed more.

If it had to be charged as part of fare with taxes, the $13 a day amount might have to be $15-17 to cover the taxes paid.

NCL charges the amount to all cabins. You have to write corporate when you come home from your cruise to get your tip money back. I would bet you have to have a good reason for removing. I could see all lines doing that if many continue to remove.

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Groups of people that would purposely not eat at their traditional dining table so they would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night IMO ruined it for us. They seem to think the cruise line pays the crew so much that they don't need to leave a tip.

 

Boy if they only knew the truth. The crew needs the gratuities to even make a fair living.

 

Same with the cabin stewards. They would purposely avoid seeing them on the last day so they wouldn't have to tip.

 

I know, I know, a tip should be earned, not a given, but the chosen few ruined it for everyone.

 

IMO it gets me angry to think that people who pay thousands of dollars to cruise could not spend a mere fraction of it to tip.

 

Maybe I am more of a traditionalist but we always give the waiters and stewards additional cash for a job well done. One time we had a waiter who had a wife at home expecting a baby and we gave him a little something for the baby and you would have thought we gave him a million bucks. And no, I didn't think he was playing us for fools.

 

BTW you can always go to guest services to get the prepaid tips removed if you think your service was poor.

 

At least this prepaid system gives the crew a fairer distribution.

 

I agree with you about giving deserving more and love the story about the gift for the baby.

I always tell my husband that even an extra $10 or $20 means so much more to them than it does to us.

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NP....thanks for the history. Just curious regarding your first sentence point...

would not have to pay tips to the dining staff on the final night. The collection of tips back then has a direct handing of cash from the cruiser to the staff? It wasn't a charge to the stateroom folio? Couldn't =X= address that by charging the stateroom? Maybe =X= was trying to maintain the concept of direct interaction/appreciation? and like you typed not all cruisers were aligned with that traditional approach?

 

Sorry for the followup and like you typed, not looking here on this thread, to go the direction of the purpose of tipping. Just looking for some background since we are relatively new to Boatland (as my one-and-done cruising BIL likes to call it)

 

Cheers,

OHP

 

Before prepaid tipping envelopes were left in cabins so the passengers could directly tip the crew on the last night as they saw fit. The highest performing staff or those with the longest tenure, for example in the dining room, would have tables with passengers who would most likely historically tip more. Stewards with high performance or longevity would service the higher cost cabins with the probability of being tipped better.

 

At least in the dining room this worked out when everybody was in traditional dining and you had the same servers during the course of the cruise and the dining room was the main place you got food this worked our well. With the growth of Select dining where you didn't get the same waiters every night and the growth of buffet eating this system didn't work as well.

 

Just a little overview.

 

Enjoy your cruise.

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We've always done Select with prepaid gratuities. Have never done the traditional dining.

 

Questions here are how are gratuities assigned and paid with traditional?

 

Are they a fixed amount per stateroom per each night actually dining in the MDR..or based on the total number of nights cruising? Meaning we would avoid the assessment if we ate on shore or the OV...for example. Are they left up to our discretion? (doubtful). How 'bout if we dine with Specialty...then how are the grads assigned.

 

Also, breakfast in the MDR. Can traditional diners take breakfast in the MDR? How would the grad be handled then?

 

TIA

 

Cheers,

OHP

 

Back to your original question about dining for breakfast. The MDR is open for all three meals with the exception of lunch on embarkation day and port days. It is open to everyone on the ship and no additional tips are required.

 

Back to the discussion on tipping in general. I agree in theory that they should include the tips in the price of the cruise. I would point out however that some lines have done that and people started tipping staff anyway. The same conversation was then had a few years later.

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"....tipping is not in general part of your European mindset and it's been said many times here that Europeans are just poor tippers in general. The idea that someone who spends a more than a thousand dollars or more on a cruise plus airfare and a hotel is going to be bankrupted by a five pound note is to me totally ludicrous. So maybe that's another reason why the cruise lines decided to make tipping prepaid. In America tipping is just considered good manners and expected in some amount.

 

And like I said if you don't think a prepaid tip is earned you can have it removed at Guest Services.

 

If you're living so close to the edge making $188 a week than maybe you should be traveling on a more affordable cruise line ( not being insensitive at all , just being realistic ).

I personally save every year squirreling away money and traveling with the lowest costs. You won't find me in Aqua class.

 

And if you think I am being personally derogatory that is a misinterpretation.

 

I do agree with the poster who stated that the cruise lines should pay the crew more than what they do. If the cost of cruising is raised a little bit so be it.

 

Hope your next cruise is an enjoyable one.

 

Dear NordicPrice

 

You have just confirmed what I said regarding others on these boards taking my comments to mean I personally don't tip and consequently wrote a response indicating that I should do this or that if I am not happy! I was merely pointing out that not all cruisers live the 'American Dream' and can afford to tip over and above the expected norm, and your comments

 

"Europeans are just poor tippers in general. The idea that someone who spends a more than a thousand dollars or more on a cruise plus airfare and a hotel is going to be bankrupted by a five pound note is to me totally ludicrous"

 

is equally ludicrous to me!

 

Firstly, your statement that Europeans are regarded as poor tippers (by Americans I presume?) is not necessarily true, we do tip on many ocassions (yes even on cruise ships) if we get service 'above and beyond', but we also tip taxi drivers, waiters/waitresses, hairdressers, etc. However we rarely go into (for example) a hairdressers shop and start dishing out tips to the hair washer, the person who makes us a drink, the person who sweeps the floor, the person who answers the phone etc. etc. We tip the person who actually cuts our hair, this is our culture and is seen by all as fair. Why? Usually because the person who owns the salon pays the floor sweeper, the tea maker and the hair washer a decent living wage so they are not humbled into feeling like they have to bow and scrape in order to get enough money to pay their bills! What would be ludicrous is for the owner of the hair salon to ask us for say a $30 tip to share amongst his staff before we even enter the place and are able to judge whether our haircut was worth it!

 

Secondly many cruisers in Europe pay for a cruise at a price which includes airfare, transfers and if necessary hotel bills so the cost is a known entity and they usually book what they can afford. However, the auto grats are not a £5 note as you say, for a couple it is usually a further $26 per day, so for a seven day trip is $182, for a 14 day trip $364; a little more than £5! Yes, I understand they can take off the auto grats and some do but many don't.

 

Finally, why should anyone choose what you call 'a more affordable cruise line' just so they can afford to pay the grats? would it be just to make you and other condescending 'we always pay our auto tips and then some' happy?

 

I tried not to make my previous comments personal, I was just stating facts about what I know so I would appreciate if you also kept your comments in the same vane.

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Dear NordicPrice

 

You have just confirmed what I said regarding others on these boards taking my comments to mean I personally don't tip and consequently wrote a response indicating that I should do this or that if I am not happy! I was merely pointing out that not all cruisers live the 'American Dream' and can afford to tip over and above the expected norm, and your comments

 

"Europeans are just poor tippers in general. The idea that someone who spends a more than a thousand dollars or more on a cruise plus airfare and a hotel is going to be bankrupted by a five pound note is to me totally ludicrous"

 

is equally ludicrous to me!

 

Firstly, your statement that Europeans are regarded as poor tippers (by Americans I presume?) is not necessarily true, we do tip on many ocassions (yes even on cruise ships) if we get service 'above and beyond', but we also tip taxi drivers, waiters/waitresses, hairdressers, etc. However we rarely go into (for example) a hairdressers shop and start dishing out tips to the hair washer, the person who makes us a drink, the person who sweeps the floor, the person who answers the phone etc. etc. We tip the person who actually cuts our hair, this is our culture and is seen by all as fair. Why? Usually because the person who owns the salon pays the floor sweeper, the tea maker and the hair washer a decent living wage so they are not humbled into feeling like they have to bow and scrape in order to get enough money to pay their bills! What would be ludicrous is for the owner of the hair salon to ask us for say a $30 tip to share amongst his staff before we even enter the place and are able to judge whether our haircut was worth it!

 

Secondly many cruisers in Europe pay for a cruise at a price which includes airfare, transfers and if necessary hotel bills so the cost is a known entity and they usually book what they can afford. However, the auto grats are not a £5 note as you say, for a couple it is usually a further $26 per day, so for a seven day trip is $182, for a 14 day trip $364; a little more than £5! Yes, I understand they can take off the auto grats and some do but many don't.

 

Finally, why should anyone choose what you call 'a more affordable cruise line' just so they can afford to pay the grats? would it be just to make you and other condescending 'we always pay our auto tips and then some' happy?

 

I tried not to make my previous comments personal, I was just stating facts about what I know so I would appreciate if you also kept your comments in the same vane.

I hope you feel better now that you've gotten that off your chest. Believe me I am the least condescending person in the world. In reality more people are condescending to me, not the other way around. We just live in different cultures, sorry if that thought offends you.

 

And yes here in America it is our culture to tip anyone who performs a personal service for us, even the hair washer.

 

Well as I said before if anyone doesn't like prepaid tips they can go to Guest Services and have them removed. No problem.

 

Enjoy your next cruise vacation.

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Up until about five years ago the passengers tipped the crew in cash.

Near the end of the cruise you received a packet in your stateroom with about 5 envelopes and suggested amounts. One for was waiter/assistant, one for maitre d, one for cabin steward, one for housekeeping manager. You calculated daily suggestion by how many in your cabin then by how many nights of cruise. Then you put that much cash in that envelope.

I don't recall amount but say steward $3 day times 3 in cabin for 10 night cruise would be $90. You gave steward his envelope and housekeeping's envelope.

When you went to dinner the last night you gave waiter his. The maitre d always made the rounds the last night looking for his envelope. This worked in traditional dining where you had the same waiter each night. Some did not show up for dinner the last night to avoid paying tips.

The suggested amount for each add up to what is now the daily amount.

It took time though to calculate and you had to have lots of cash so the new way is much easier.

 

Thanks so much for the history and background. Good to know.

Cheers,

OHP

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Before prepaid tipping envelopes were left in cabins so the passengers could directly tip the crew on the last night as they saw fit. The highest performing staff or those with the longest tenure, for example in the dining room, would have tables with passengers who would most likely historically tip more. Stewards with high performance or longevity would service the higher cost cabins with the probability of being tipped better.

 

At least in the dining room this worked out when everybody was in traditional dining and you had the same servers during the course of the cruise and the dining room was the main place you got food this worked our well. With the growth of Select dining where you didn't get the same waiters every night and the growth of buffet eating this system didn't work as well.

 

Just a little overview.

 

Enjoy your cruise.

 

Thanks so much for the history and background. Good to know. Sorry the post got a little off track and you got pulled into it. As you pointed out, I really wasn't wanting this thread to go the way of many others I've seen regarding the fairness, the purpose, the various approaches, the whatever of tipping.

 

Was looking only to understand current state of grats with traditional dining and then a little history of grads before I started to cruise in 2013.

 

Cheers,

OHP

Cheers,

OHP

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