Is Europe safe given the new travel alert?

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#61
25 Posts
Joined Jan 2007
Originally posted by ebtrip
We have also traveled the world, lived in London when the IRA was distrupting the underground and airports. I was always aware of my surroundings and never feared being alone in the city.

It took my DH 30 years to get me to Israel, and last year we made it. So glad we went .It was really great trip and never felt uncomfortable in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. After we left there was a bombing in a mall that we had been in, but that would not keep us from going again.

We leave for Europe next month, we have friends that don't understand why we would travel in these times. We live 30 minutes from San Bernardino, so I tell them it happened in our own backyards.

You were at the Sarona Market... lovely place!

We got on a plane for Israel July 2014 a day or two after Hamas began bombing Israel. We chose to go anyway. Yes, we spent the first 5 days in and out of bomb shelters (hotel stairwells) and I have an unbelievable photo of the Iron Dome intercepting a missile over Jaffa. We were stranded in Israel as our plane was diverted to Paris and then all the US airlines stopped service.

Call me crazy, but in Israel I felt 100% safe 100% of the time. On the other hand, I do not feel safe walking to our car after dinner in Atlanta, or leaving my neighborhood mall in broad daylight.

Going to Italy and Greece on Sept. 1 on the Reflection. Can't wait!


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#62
USA
6,526 Posts
Joined May 2007
Originally posted by IamJo
You were at the Sarona Market... lovely place!

We got on a plane for Israel July 2014 a day or two after Hamas began bombing Israel. We chose to go anyway. Yes, we spent the first 5 days in and out of bomb shelters (hotel stairwells) and I have an unbelievable photo of the Iron Dome intercepting a missile over Jaffa. We were stranded in Israel as our plane was diverted to Paris and then all the US airlines stopped service.

Call me crazy, but in Israel I felt 100% safe 100% of the time. On the other hand, I do not feel safe walking to our car after dinner in Atlanta, or leaving my neighborhood mall in broad daylight.

Going to Italy and Greece on Sept. 1 on the Reflection. Can't wait!


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Sorry to break it to you but you were in danger and in a war zone

To say you felt 100% safe while in a bomb shelter is an interesting concept

You were quite lucky to not be hurt so yes it just wasn't your time so that argument works
But please recognize that your trip to Israel was dangerous no matter how you want to spin it




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#63
uk
55 Posts
Joined Jul 2012
[quote=Crusin6;52882214]I know most will disagree but..


Comparing murder rates in gang infested neighborhoods to terrorism is really like apples and oranges

To make an accurate comparison the stats must be related


Such as....inner city drug and gang related murders in Chicago to the same in LA

Same for terrorism
Same for random street crime
Same for any type of crime

No don't agree. We lived in Westchester county nice suburban area and there was gun crime there. Random acts of terrorism and neighbours feuds so not correct simply gang infected areas.
#64
uk
55 Posts
Joined Jul 2012
As Roosevelt Supposedly said "nothing to fear but fear it's self"

Agree it's all about perception ..If you allowed that level of fear to be directed at risks associated with automobile travelling (which as op said is statistically is far more likely to happen) then you would never get in a car again but my guess would be you are doing that regularly without thinking of the risks.


Just go and enjoy yourself only ones perception stops them from doing things and being so fearful.
#65
California
524 Posts
Joined Oct 2013
Originally posted by cruisemom42
You are 14 times more likely to die in your bathtub than in a terrorist attack, 16 times more likely to die from a lightning strike, 517 times more likely to be murdered (there is on average one murder every 60 seconds worldwide), 991 times by self-injury, 500 times in a car accident (3,000 people die every day in road accidents worldwide), 450 times by falling, 118 times by accidental drowning, 41 times in natural disasters (earthquake, flood etc.), 25 times by choking on food, 13 times by a dog bite, 4 times by falling off a ladder, 1.8 million times by a heart disease, 1860 times by electrocution, 93 times by bee sting, and 3 times more likely to die by a snake bite or food poisoning!

While I realize these figures do not make people feel better when the fear is irrational, they do help put things into perspective.
I totally agree with you. We cannot ignore all those terrific things happening all over the world nowadays but it doesn't mean that sitting at home makes your life safer. I visit London frequently and I see that security measures have highly stepped up as in all big cities in Europe I guess. In my opinion, this makes them safer than several years before. My family is planning Med cruise in the end of summer and there are no thoughts about cancelling it!
Jane
#66
Leeds, England
128 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by angeleyes27
I think if someone is not afraid of terrorism, that is fine. But I find it offensive when people put down those who are afraid as if they are inferior. Everyone has their own comfort level and I wish others had tolerance for that. Just like some people are afraid of heights and others are not. I no longer ask people on this forum if a place is safe. I just don't go there if I feel unsure. I would rather go somewhere that I can enjoy myself. I don't feel safe in most of Europe anymore like I used to, but yet I just went to China and felt okay there. It is a matter of preference


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Fear is a natural primeval instinct it helped us stay alive while we evolved. There is nothing wrong with fear it's how we react to it that counts.

Service personnel who go into conflict have a level of fear but go anyway.

Bravery is overcoming things we are afraid of.

Terrorism aims to destroy our lifestyles, values and principles, It's objective is to make us live in fear and must be opposed by not letting those things happen.
#67
USA
6,526 Posts
Joined May 2007
[quote=jogie;52889840]
Originally posted by Crusin6
I know most will disagree but..


Comparing murder rates in gang infested neighborhoods to terrorism is really like apples and oranges

To make an accurate comparison the stats must be related


Such as....inner city drug and gang related murders in Chicago to the same in LA

Same for terrorism
Same for random street crime
Same for any type of crime

No don't agree. We lived in Westchester county nice suburban area and there was gun crime there. Random acts of terrorism and neighbours feuds so not correct simply gang infected areas.

Sorry to disagree but I know Westchester quite well and yes of course there is crime everywhere....but Westchester is not the south side of Chicago and please be clear and state that in Westchester there is unfortunately a very large city or 2 on the Westchester Bronx border that is basically the place where most crime happens....it's very rare and you know it to read of massive crime in the other areas. You know as well as I do that Westchester cannot be compared nor should it be compared to areas of massive crime

I know it makes people feel good to say the beautiful middle and upper middle class suburbs that house for the most part a well educated decent family friendly citizenry ....are just as crime infested as major urban areas....but it just Isnt true


Yes there are murders...thefts...drugs...of course....but the fact still remains that they are not happening on every suburban street...nor in the vast majority of NYC either...


Again...if it makes people happy to degrade and disparage great solid areas...go ahead...I know that admitting that there are still great places and good solid family communities around in not PC


And just to reiterate....yes crime happens everywhere...even in Westchester Greenwich and Beverly Hills....the fact is that it is not massive nor as frequent as anyone thinks of course the media will try to make you think it is ...



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#68
uk
55 Posts
Joined Jul 2012
[quote=Crusin6;52891580][quote=jogie;52889840]


Sorry to disagree but I know Westchester quite well and yes of course there is crime everywhere....but Westchester is not the south side of Chicago and please be clear and state that in Westchester there is unfortunately a very large city or 2 on the Westchester Bronx border that is basically the place where most crime happens....it's very rare and you know it to read of massive crime in the other areas. You know as well as I do that Westchester cannot be compared nor should it be compared to areas of massive crime

I know it makes people feel good to say the beautiful middle and upper middle class suburbs that house for the most part a well educated decent family friendly citizenry ....are just as crime infested as major urban areas....but it just Isnt true


Yes there are murders...thefts...drugs...of course....but the fact still remains that they are not happening on every suburban street...nor in the vast majority of NYC either...


Again...if it makes people happy to degrade and disparage great solid areas...go ahead...I know that admitting that there are still great places and good solid family communities around in not PC


And just to reiterate....yes crime happens everywhere...even in Westchester Greenwich and Beverly Hills....the fact is that it is not massive nor as frequent as anyone thinks of course the media will try to make you think it is ...


RESPONSE
My point is exactly that crime happens every where. And to quote "you know it"

Why are you getting so het up imagining that we are comparing it to major urban inner city or insinuating it is happening on every street?
#69
729 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Tjt87, bravery is required to overcome things like cancer or starting a new career or accomplishing something you always dreamed of. Soldiers are very brave but you can't compare them to someone who doesn't feel comfortable taking a vacation somewhere. Does that mean we should go to North Korea so the dictator doesn't win? I don't buy your argument. Vacations are to enjoy not force myself to go so terrorists don't win or to try to be brave. Utter nonsense!


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#70
London, England
3,028 Posts
Joined Jun 2011
An act of terrorism is something you have no idea where or when it will happen. You can be afraid of the concept of a terrorist attack, but how can you be afraid of visiting a whole continent made of different countries where something may happen, but is more likely not happen.

Obviously, if somebody doesn't want to go somewhere, that's their choice, but I don't understand how you can be afraid of something non tangible.

I think the erratic actions of the current US president would frighten me much more than visiting a European country.
#71
Herts, U.K.
4,717 Posts
Joined Oct 2006
Originally posted by LondonTowner
An act of terrorism is something you have no idea where or when it will happen. You can be afraid of the concept of a terrorist attack, but how can you be afraid of visiting a whole continent made of different countries where something may happen, but is more likely not happen.

Obviously, if somebody doesn't want to go somewhere, that's their choice, but I don't understand how you can be afraid of something non tangible.

I think the erratic actions of the current US president would frighten me much more than visiting a European country.
Where's the like button
#72
729 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
I didn't say that I thought the entire continent was off limits. There is a terror attack almost every other week with them breaking up another attack in between. I work too hard for my vacation money and my own purpose is enjoyment. I don't enjoy having to worry if someone is going to run me over while I am walking the streets or bomb the subway car I am on when the world is filled with other places to visit. I was already a victim of pickpockets twice and had to keep my valuables even my phone in my underwear. More that half these attackers are on the radar of the police but are roaming the streets. I have seen London and Rome twice, Paris once , took my children to London and Paris, and visited more than half the continent so it is not like I have not seen it. I don't want to go in the current atmosphere although I am going to northern Iceland this summer and renting a car. If you want to go that is fine but I am entitled to spend my vacation where I chose.


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#73
California
524 Posts
Joined Oct 2013
Originally posted by LondonTowner
An act of terrorism is something you have no idea where or when it will happen. You can be afraid of the concept of a terrorist attack, but how can you be afraid of visiting a whole continent made of different countries where something may happen, but is more likely not happen.

Obviously, if somebody doesn't want to go somewhere, that's their choice, but I don't understand how you can be afraid of something non tangible.

I think the erratic actions of the current US president would frighten me much more than visiting a European country.
It is the best summary of what has been said here.
#74
729 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
My reason in commenting is not to change your mind or to get you to change mine. But to implore to have tolerance for those who have a different opinion than yours and respect that. I don't see that on this forum. Either you share the same opinion or else you are an ignorant coward with little sense. I know many many people who share my view even in Europe. It doesn't mean that Europe is bad, just for me right now.
I am not cowering in my home. I just went to Japan and Hong Kong 2 weeks ago. Headed to South Carolina in May, Iceland in July and Hawaii (out remote island) in November. I am just staying away from the crowds until the situation improves


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#75
California
524 Posts
Joined Oct 2013
Originally posted by angeleyes27
My reason in commenting is not to change your mind or to get you to change mine. But to implore to have tolerance for those who have a different opinion than yours and respect that. I don't see that on this forum. Either you share the same opinion or else you are an ignorant coward with little sense. I know many many people who share my view even in Europe. It doesn't mean that Europe is bad, just for me right now.
I am not cowering in my home. I just went to Japan and Hong Kong 2 weeks ago. Headed to South Carolina in May, Iceland in July and Hawaii (out remote island) in November. I am just staying away from the crowds until the situation improves
I see your point and I fully respect it. If you can escape travelling around the Europe by changing your destination list and you won't feel upset with it - good for you. But as for me and for many others here I guess, there are some certain plans for certain places to visit, even dreams. For my family these are several Italian, Spain and French cities, and I don't see how they could be replaced with Hawaii for example, just because situation in Europe is considered to be more unstable than in previous years. For me it is like betraying your dream.
#76
19,787 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Originally posted by angeleyes27
My reason in commenting is not to change your mind or to get you to change mine. But to implore to have tolerance for those who have a different opinion than yours and respect that. I don't see that on this forum. Either you share the same opinion or else you are an ignorant coward with little sense. I know many many people who share my view even in Europe. It doesn't mean that Europe is bad, just for me right now.
I am not cowering in my home. I just went to Japan and Hong Kong 2 weeks ago. Headed to South Carolina in May, Iceland in July and Hawaii (out remote island) in November. I am just staying away from the crowds until the situation improves


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You seem to take this way too personally. You are perfectly entitled to your fear, but perhaps you might consider that others on these threads are talking about facts and not irrationalities.
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Wherever the wind takes me I travel as a visitor. (Horace)