UKCruiseJeff Posted August 7, 2015 #126 Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) I respect your view, but threads should be as much as possible a single source of related matters and issues. I hold a different view about the seriousness of this. Firstly there are several views expressed about the trivial nature of breaches. But what might be trivial on land can have potentially much more significance and serious consequences for large numbers of people bunged up together out at sea. And to many the issues are symptomatic of a malaise at SS. Part of a bigger picture. Particularly the repetitive nature of mistake making. Whatever some feel, the standards are there for a purpose. The objectives of these standards are to protect. Presumably low scores are informative, the repetitive nature - also and publicising provides the best incentive to improve standards. Although you rightly say that some have negative experiences and express that view, there is the other impression that is being created and that is of cheerleaders who do not want others to be as well informed as they feel that they are. I'm sure you will agree that that impression isn't helpful to the informative nature of this CC forum. If you think that some are going off topic, then it seems more logical to report the individual post rather than argue for closure of the entire thread. Most people choosing cruises would like to be better informed and I think they can all make up their own minds. Jeff Edited August 7, 2015 by UKCruiseJeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloreece Posted August 8, 2015 #127 Share Posted August 8, 2015 KaraokeQueen, I am not quite sure what you are upset about. The failed CDC inspection occurred very recently. It is what it is. I found nothing untoward. The food seemed fine from a health perspective. I simply, for the most part, did not find it extremely tasty to MY liking. I think someone else posted that they have found it more than satisfactory. It is what it is. Overall, I thought the line provided a fantastic cruise. I just did not find the food impressive. I am new to cruise critic, is that something that requires the thread to be "locked?" Were you on the ship in the last two weeks? How do you know the current situation on board any or every SS vessel. Are you employed by CDC? Are you an employee of Silversea? I am curious as to the basis for your sweeping statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duct tape Posted August 8, 2015 #128 Share Posted August 8, 2015 OK, kids, calm down. KQ, I am not sure you are aware that there was another recent USPHS inspection failure. This is not about the one that caused all the brouhaha last year, or so. As usual, I agree with you. SS is my line of choice as well. Kloreece, she is excitable but that is part of her charm. Welcome to CC, where everyone is entitled to their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duct tape Posted August 8, 2015 #129 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I just heard that the Shadow scored a 99 from USPHS on July 25. Good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kloreece Posted August 8, 2015 #130 Share Posted August 8, 2015 An opinion. Exactly. I, like many others, can weigh each and make my own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oregon50 Posted August 8, 2015 #131 Share Posted August 8, 2015 SS is my line of choice as well. Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocchi Posted August 8, 2015 #132 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Can anyone inform me of some facts. Has Silversea ever had an outbreak of disease caused by bad hygiene? How often and when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare drron29 Posted August 9, 2015 #133 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The only outbreaks of gastro on Silverseas were 2 on the Shadow in 2004.The bug was not found in specimens-that was pretty common then. In the last 10 years those lines that have had an outbreak to a known bug other than Norovirus are Princess-4,HAL-2,Oceania,Norwegian,Regent and Cunard all with 1.Those are due to a breakdown in sanitary precautions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonelretwes Posted August 9, 2015 #134 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Thanks drront29 for the excellent bug/novo virus on cruise ships fidelity Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duct tape Posted August 9, 2015 #135 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) We did have an outbreak of a GI disturbance during the Grand Voyage around SoAmer this past winter, but the ship handled it very well and it was short lived. It was definitely the passengers and not the crew. Edited August 9, 2015 by duct tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Keith1010 Posted August 9, 2015 #136 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) My apologies if some or all of this has been covered already. Gastro Virus often occurs on cruise ships for many reasons and often is brought on-board by others whether passengers and/or crew from being exposed before they embark the ship or in port. They are only reportable if they meet the CDC Criteria which is: Fall within the purview of VSP Are sailing on voyages from 3-21 days, Are carrying 100 or more passengers, Are cruise ships in which 3% or more of passengers or crew reported symptoms of diarrheal disease to the ships medical staff during the voyage, and Are gastrointestinal illness outbreaks of public health significance. The 3% is the key. I only mention this because sometimes people mix up the issue of reportable versus an occurrence(s) or even outbreak. I have been on many voyages across many different cruise lines where some people have gotten it but it was not reportable. Often actions are undertaken to prevent it from being a major outbreak including confining those who have the virus to their rooms to using stronger chemicals to clean public areas. Often the cruise lines can't prevent the illness from occurring in the first place but can have more of an impact on its control. Of course, part of this requires the cooperation of both passengers and crew should someone contract this virus in the first place. Each year, there are around 10 reportable events across all of the cruise lines/ships who fall under the CDC for reporting these events. The last time that Silversea had a reportable event was indeed in 2004. All of this is available on the CDC web site as are the inspection results by ship and cruise line and by year. As to the inspections, Silver Shadow's most recent score was 82 in April of 2015 as first mentioned, down from the previous one of 95 three months earlier. As consumers, we are fortunate that these inspections take place. Sometimes items pointed out are very trivial and would have no impact on ones health and other times they are rather important and could impact ones health. Either way, it ensures that the cruise lines follow similar practices and keeps everyone up to the most current standards and hopefully does minimize/prevent health issues. In business, my experience is that everyone gains from inspections or internal audits pretty much no matter what business they are in. As consumers, we are also fortunate that we have access to the results with detailed reports available on line, by cruise lines, cruise ship and year so that we can, if we wish, read the reports. Keith Edited August 9, 2015 by Keith1010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKCruiseJeff Posted August 9, 2015 #137 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) In addition to Keith's informed comments, one should also keep in mind that a fail on at least one of SS's inspections was incomplete and even worst - retrospectively completed medical treatment records. The appearance was that records were being completed for gastro related passengers - but incompletely ie no specific times had been entered implying completion later - and only once it appeared that the medical reords might achieve some future "siignificance". A further implication being that minor outbreaks wouldn't be recorded and tracked, that implication leading to even further more serious implications. A core implication that might and indeed seems to have been taken by the inspectors from this is that any subsequent analysis of medical statitistics of a given ship by insepcting the medical record log would not produce a accurate impression of that ships history with respect to minor gastro virus outbreaks. I write in this rather circumspect way but what I am basically saying is that the CDC inspectros seem to have felt that the medical books were being cooked. So no one can say with authority "The only outbreakss of gastro on Silversea ...." anything. Not even Silverseas apparently knows let alone a CC poster. :) Jeff Edited August 9, 2015 by UKCruiseJeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare drron29 Posted August 9, 2015 #138 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Of course jeff no CC poster knows whether the books were being cooked or rather the possibility that this is not atypical of doctors leaving the paper work until later.Certainly I have been guilty of that. Back to the CDC figures.The ships that have had outbreaks of Pathogenic bacteria causing gastro since 2010-5 ships-only 1 had a failed inspection out of 35 for that ship. The 3 Princess ships that had outbreaks had 15 perfect 100s,9 99s and only 3 inspections with scores below 90-86,87 and 89. Just making the point that the CDC inspection scores really don't pick up future outbreaks of disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKCruiseJeff Posted August 9, 2015 #139 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Thanks .... to be clear ... I certainly meant no disrespect! :D But at the heart of the process is self-reporting isn't it? ;) Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocchi Posted August 10, 2015 #140 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Thank you all for you wise, dispassionate answers and information. So Silversea has an excellent record for health at sea. We will continue to use the hand sanitisers and know we are staying safe as we can. With this information we know we have been safe and we can continue to look forward to our upcoming Silversea cruises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Keith1010 Posted August 10, 2015 #141 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Thank you all for you wise, dispassionate answers and information.So Silversea has an excellent record for health at sea. We will continue to use the hand sanitisers and know we are staying safe as we can. With this information we know we have been safe and we can continue to look forward to our upcoming Silversea cruises. If I may add in addition to using the hand sanitizers (and my wife and I use them) is to wash hands often with soap and warm water and to wash them thoroughly. And we all have to realize that when we travel or for that matter leave our own home that we do increase the odds of getting sick but by taking precautions we can all minimize the risks and certainly it is good that there are inspections and the like because all of this adds to making cruising more safe. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted August 10, 2015 #142 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Very wise advice. Washing hands often is the best war to combat illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted August 10, 2015 #143 Share Posted August 10, 2015 That should have read "best way" but maybe "war" works too!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oregon50 Posted August 10, 2015 #144 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yes to washing hands often. Hand sanitizer was invented by the TSA. Or, is it the other way around? I forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burpelson Posted November 2, 2015 #145 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Lots of argument, but what do we know about what SS has done to respond? The 2013 response sounded good, but obviously was not enough. There are some posts that suggest rot to the corporate core - ie this won't be fixed anytime soon. Others are loyal. Googling the 2013 response, things sounded good, but apparently not enough. Comparatively very little via google on either reax to the CDC results by consumers, or by SS to fix itself re the 2015 CDC poor results. I've never cruised SS, but it's in the running for an upcoming AK cruise. What am I to make of all this? I'd love to have faith, and have a great cruise. But why so much animosity towards SS? High expectations down a few percent = slam. Or a slip off the edge and SS is really down? I can't tell..... Edited November 2, 2015 by Burpelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted November 2, 2015 #146 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I've never cruised SS, but it's in the running for an upcoming AK cruise. What am I to make of all this? I'd love to have faith, and have a great cruise. But why so much animosity towards SS? High expectations down a few percent = slam. Or a slip off the edge and SS is really down? I can't tell..... I can, of course, speak only for myself. I have more than 200 nights on Silversea, but I am likely to have no more. There are other options out there which, I believe, offer a better experience and better value than Silversea currently does. The staff remain extraordinary, and I miss them. But I do not miss the steady decline in other aspects of the onboard product. The US-based management has been incredibly insensitive and unresponsive on the couple of occasions when I have raised issues with them. I have been moving away from Silversea for a year or so. Recent developments (such as the sale requiring full payment up to a year in advance and recent deposit requirements) make me wonder whether this privately-owned company is really stable or whether they're having cash flow issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Silver Spectre Posted November 2, 2015 #147 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I've never cruised SS, but it's in the running for an upcoming AK cruise. What am I to make of all this? I'd love to have faith, and have a great cruise. But why so much animosity towards SS? High expectations down a few percent = slam. Or a slip off the edge and SS is really down? I can't tell..... Bear in mind that very few people who cruise with SS will have heard of Cruise Critic, let alone actually posted on here. So these boards represent a rather vocal, but very small minority. There are also a fair number of naysayers and even one or two SS 'haters' who post on here. Some will never have sailed with SS, some have not sailed for years. There are those like myself who will criticise SS for their failings and comment where standards have dropped, but none of that stops me from continuing to enjoy their wonderful staff and having a great time whenever I am aboard. For a better representation read the 'I actually like SS' thread. If you choose to travel with SS you will almost certainly have a great time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKCruiseJeff Posted November 2, 2015 #148 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Lots of argument, but what do we know about what SS has done to respond? The 2013 response sounded good, but obviously was not enough. There are some posts that suggest rot to the corporate core - ie this won't be fixed anytime soon. Others are loyal. Googling the 2013 response, things sounded good, but apparently not enough. Comparatively very little via google on either reax to the CDC results by consumers, or by SS to fix itself re the 2015 CDC poor results. I've never cruised SS, but it's in the running for an upcoming AK cruise. What am I to make of all this? I'd love to have faith, and have a great cruise. But why so much animosity towards SS? High expectations down a few percent = slam. Or a slip off the edge and SS is really down? I can't tell..... Bear in mind that very few people who cruise with SS will have heard of Cruise Critic, let alone actually posted on here. So these boards represent a rather vocal, but very small minority. There are also a fair number of yaysayers and even one or two SS 'lovers' who post on here. Some will never say much in citiscism and only sail with SS. Some are totally intolerant fo anyone questioning anything and will rubbish very personally anyone that does so remorsely. Make of that what you will. ;) :rolleyes: There are those like myself who have a lot of SS nights and will more recently criticise SS for their failings and only now see increasing deterioration and mismatch with their needs - but do so in the forlorn hope they will respond. We are a part of a vocal group that love them sufficiently to hope for better. You should be more suspicous of zealots who rubbish unbelievers than the group that mourn and hope for better. :D For a perfect representation of the "yaysayers" read the 'I actually like SS' thread. Only a fool is swayed by a single view and no one can decide for you. I know you previously posted about Norwegian and a man after my own tastes .... about Pilsner. I think you are trying to decide whether the additional cash represents good value from Norwegian and whether you might be dissapointed. Anyone who says something like "If you choose to travel with SS you will almost certainly have a great time!" may or may not be right. You posted on a thread about the inspections. If you'd read through them and the earlier threads on the previous failed inspections - they indicate more than just a minor set of breaches. They indicated a management led programme of deception and disregard for the importance of safety. The breachess in themselves may or may not have been important. What caused alarm to many was that what it illuminated - alongside the trends many see - about the management of the companjy. To be balanced, about this a lot really depends on what you are expecting and need and want. It may well be that a grumpy person like me won't be happy, but a more balanced person like you might be. Different things are more important to different people. Some things are less important. The CDC inspections may not be important to you. People remembering your name and making you feel important may be. Some are simply also more easilly satisfied than others. No one is right or wrong. Different strokes for different folks. So if you want to chat more informally and more generally on the wider topic the cooler is the place where both views are represented and no one suffers abuse either way and may be a place to chat where you might be able to form a better opion as to whether it is for you. Your first SS forum post? Welcome. Good luck. :) Jeff Edited November 2, 2015 by UKCruiseJeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare FlyerTalker Posted November 2, 2015 #149 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Dear Burpleson, Are you related to the man whom an Air Force base was named for? It was a few years back - perhaps it's been deactivated due to budget cutbacks to SAC. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josephone Posted November 2, 2015 #150 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Hi I am totally confused. Was there another CDC inspection in 2015 or is still beating on the 2013 bad inspection? thanks to anyone who can enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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