Sea change in Shanghai?

We are booked on the Voyager from Hong Kong to Beijing in March 2017 and are really looking forward to it. We have chosen all our excursions and we are overnight in Shanghai. We had booked a full day trip the first day and a shorter one on the second.

Just before Christmas we got this message from Regent : "Due to recently released tide tables by the Port Authorities in Shanghai, your cruise operator has found it necessary to amend the call time to Shanghai, China. Voyager will now arrive to Shanghai at 3pm on Saturday 11th March, rather than 8am, and will depart at 3.30pm on Sunday 12th March, rather than 4pm."

We were really surprised as tides are not usually subject to change in this way and we assume that tide tables are available well in advance of cruises, otherwise how can any planning of brochures take place?

Has anyone else had such a thing happen to them? We all know about changes because of weather and political situations but this seems bizarre to us.

We have today changed our excursions but will miss a trip completely.

Unfortunately this is not unusual for Regent - see previous thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2373968

It appears that Regent schedule their cruises making broad-brush assumptions on docking times. It is only within a few months of the cruise that they carry out their detailed planning and properly review tide restrictions etc. This is obviously very annoying for their guests who have to alter their plans to suit

It is interesting to note that these late alterations invariably result in less time in port..........never more :rolleyes:

So sorry to hear that your stop in Shanghai has been foreshortened but hope you have a wonderful cruise in a fascinating part of the world

Based on our experience, this is very unusual for Regent. However, it is not unusual for China. We cancelled two cruises after the port times in China changed. This is not something that Regent has control of. In this case, it is apparently the tides, however, it seems that China ports have issues continuously. As a result of our two cancelled cruises, we have booked an Asian cruise that excludes China.

Hope that you have a great cruise despite the changes in port times.

...................and of course one of the worst examples of Regent's lack of pre-planning was their failed attempt to schedule Navigator on a cruise through the North West Passage

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2354650&highlight=North+west+passage

Very disappointing for guests who had booked and very embarrassing for Regent

Unbelievable! Or maybe far too sadly believable. As the OP for the thread that flossie mentioned in her post #2 above, I am quite interested in this matter of Regent's apparent inability (or worse, woeful lack of care about its customers?) to read tide tables or river current charts prior to scheduling, marketing, and selling cruises.

Whether this is simply negligence or is a highly cynical approach to selling cruises (i.e. "Sell 'em what looks good and we'll just amend the actual docking schedules later!"), it is lamentable indeed.

However mercurial the Chinese authorities might be in their decisions regarding docking times, they do not control the tides and river currents, both of which are published years in advance and available to Regent operations before any cruise is marketed and sold. This situation cannot be blamed on the Chinese authorities and rests squarely upon the inept shoulders of Regent ops and marketing.

It is quite preposterous (just as it was in the case of our just-completed cruise which included a fore-shortened visit to Myanmar because of "tidal problems") to suggest that the change is "Due to recently released tide tables by the Port Authorities in Shanghai...". Those tables have been available for at least two or three years and cannot be changed by the Port Authorities in Shanghai. This is not a case of Moses parting the Red Sea or of the Chinese port authorities changing the tides or "recently" releasing the tide tables.

Fred, glad to see you pipe in; i think blaming the tide tables is just a "white lie" that they think we will believe.

BREAK BREAK

Fred, Flossie or others on the recent trip to Burma; did you take the excursion to Mandalay or to Bagan? Did you compare after experiences with other passengers that would lead you to one or the other if you had ability to choose again? We are on same itinerary next fall (at 40% higher fares so i hope they read the tide tables) and I would like to book the overland excursion in advance.

thanks,

Marc

Fred, Flossie or others on the recent trip to Burma; did you take the excursion to Mandalay or to Bagan? Did you compare after experiences with other passengers that would lead you to one or the other if you had ability to choose again? We are on same itinerary next fall (at 40% higher fares so i hope they read the tide tables) and I would like to book the overland excursion in advance.

 

thanks,

 

Marc

Marc,

We did the Regent side-trip to Bagan. It was excellent

A small group of 15 left the ship at 4am, met our Burmese guide, and drove to Rangoon (Yangon) airport; the new domestic terminal had only opened 10 days previously so was very clean & efficient. The one hour flight with Yangon Airways (turbo-prop aircraft) passed quickly with breakfast served on route

Our day in Bagan was packed full of sightseeing, with a short break for a delicious lunch. We checked in to an excellent hotel mid afternoon and then went off to scale a Pagoda from which we viewed the magical landscape of Bagan at sunset. Back to the hotel for dinner and then everyone retired.............totally exhausted

Up early the next morning for a good breakfast and the flight back to Rangoon. Hearing the difficulties we had with the late arrival of the ship in Rangoon, our guide made arrangements to visit the main temple in Rangoon before returning us to the ship

All arrangements were perfect and our clear-speaking guide looked after us so well from beginning to end

The trip to Bagan is highly recommended :D

I feel your disappointment. We have had a very tough year and had jumped on a Regent beach cruise out of Miami. We actually had to lose a certain amount of $ to cancel a Silversea cruise for the Regent cruise. Plane tickets were bought, precruise details all set and all of a sudden we were informed we were being rerouted to Havana for 2 days. This was no act of war nor weather related situation....they simply changed the whole focus of the cruise. What we will be getting is not what we bought.

It is not at all unbelievable to me. Oceania, same company as Regent, has the worst habit of changing and shortening port times at the last minute. Seems like Regent is adopting the same policy. Strange how they never lengthen the port times, only shorten them. And in the course of a year they save a lot of money on part fees which they never reimburse.

It is not at all unbelievable to me. Oceania, same company as Regent, has the worst habit of changing and shortening port times at the last minute. Seems like Regent is adopting the same policy. Strange how they never lengthen the port times, only shorten them. And in the course of a year they save a lot of money on part fees which they never reimburse.

We have taken a lot of cruises with Regent have not had an issue with changing or shortening port times (except China and ports missed - mostly tender ports - due to rough seas). I realize that people have different experiences and do know of some ports that are regularly cancelled by cruise lines (Easter Island for example).

IMO, the best thing that could have happened to the rock bottom priced Mariner Caribbean cruises is being able to add Cuba to the itinerary. It went from being a cruise that few were interested (except for the price - the itinerary was "same old thing" in the Caribbean) to being sold out very quickly. One person from our Explorer cruise that ends in Barcelona is flying directly to Miami to pick up that special cruise.

So, I wouldn't categorize Regent as a cruise line that is changing ports/port times for monetary gain. Changes happen when you cruise. I don't want to slam another cruise line but one line regularly cancels cruises because they get charter groups (this really upsets their customers).

In terms of port fees, I believe that this was discussed in depth on another fairly recent thread. We are happy that Regent now includes fuel and port fees in their all-inclusive price.

P.S. wripro, keep in mind that Oceania and Regent now have not only different presidents but also CEO's. CEO's of Regent, Oceania and NCL now report to FDR so the day to day operations are not necessarily going to be the same (even though some departments are combined). For instance, airlines/flights that you are able to book through Regent are not necessarily the same as the airlines/flights on Oceania (I learned this when I sailed with Oceania).

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my question and to Flossie for the links to previous threads which I hadn't seen. They made very interesting reading! I now feel lucky to see Shanghai at all! (Just joking- hopefully)

We are still looking forward to this cruise and will be doing both the pre and post cruise land tours as it's the first time for us in this region of the world. Very exciting!

Just did a bit of research on the Port of Shanghai. I didn't know that it is the busiest cruise port in the world (source: Wikipedia). This link (if it works) http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/1253 shows the traffic at the port (worse than Los Angeles IMO).

While Regent still may be misstating the facts regarding tides (haven't found data on that yet), traffic could be the reason that the port times change so frequently.

Thank you to everyone who has replied to my question and to Flossie for the links to previous threads which I hadn't seen. They made very interesting reading! I now feel lucky to see Shanghai at all! (Just joking- hopefully)

 

We are still looking forward to this cruise and will be doing both the pre and post cruise land tours as it's the first time for us in this region of the world. Very exciting!

You will have a wonderful cruise in this fascinating part of the world

Glad to hear that you will be making the best of both Hong Kong and Beijing. If you want a good Chinese meal in Beijing try the Black Sesame Kitchen; email them in advance for a booking; you will not be disappointed:

http://blacksesamekitchen.com/

Check the weather forecast before you go - Beijing can be cool/cold in March

Just did a bit of research on the Port of Shanghai. I didn't know that it is the busiest cruise port in the world (source: Wikipedia). This link (if it works) http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/1253 shows the traffic at the port (worse than Los Angeles IMO).

 

While Regent still may be misstating the facts regarding tides (haven't found data on that yet), traffic could be the reason that the port times change so frequently.

It's still interesting to me that port times are ALWAYS shortened due to these "unforeseen" circumstances and NEVER lengthened.

It's still interesting to me that port times are ALWAYS shortened due to these "unforeseen" circumstances and NEVER lengthened.

Good point! I do have to wonder if delaying a departure would affect the arrival time at the next port. When the ports are close together, it would obviously have no effect.

Well we are at sea the day before Shanghai and at sea the day after we leave. We are also the only cruise ship in Shanghai before and after our visit according to whatsinport.com, so it's hard to see that other traffic or sailing time can affect our curtailed port stop, but who knows?

Thank you for the restaurant recommendation Flossie. We are staying at the Regent Beijing which I think is near to the forbidden city and possibly near to the restaurant. The hotel has the same logo as the Regent ships, so I am assuming it must belong to the cruise line. Has anyone stayed there before? It is part of the 3 day post cruise land tour.

Well we are at sea the day before Shanghai and at sea the day after we leave. We are also the only cruise ship in Shanghai before and after our visit according to whatsinport.com, so it's hard to see that other traffic or sailing time can affect our curtailed port stop, but who knows?

 

Thank you for the restaurant recommendation Flossie. We are staying at the Regent Beijing which I think is near to the forbidden city and possibly near to the restaurant. The hotel has the same logo as the Regent ships, so I am assuming it must belong to the cruise line. Has anyone stayed there before? It is part of the 3 day post cruise land tour.

Hope that you have a great time. In terms of "traffic" in that port, as shown in the link in my previous post, the majority of the ships in port are container ships - these do not show up in "whatsinport.com". Since they have approximately 35 million container ships per year at that port, that would be close to 100 per day:eek: It will be interesting to learn if you will be in "bumper to bumper" traffic:-)

I'm hoping there will be a cruise terminal, rather than a freight port, but I haven't been there before, so will let you know! It will be very interesting whichever it is. In fact I sometimes think that working ports are more interesting than sanitised cruise ports.

Once we were docked in St Petersburg about 15 years ago, and watched a family wash a full sized carpet in the water on the bank opposite and then sat down with a picnic while it dried!

Hope that you have a great time. In terms of "traffic" in that port, as shown in the link in my previous post, the majority of the ships in port are container ships - these do not show up in "whatsinport.com". Since they have approximately 35 million container ships per year at that port, that would be close to 100 per day:eek: It will be interesting to learn if you will be in "bumper to bumper" traffic:-)

Believe 35 million per day might just be a bit overstated as that would mean 96000 per day which is probably more than all the ocean going ship in the world. Might believe 100 per day and that would about 36 thousand per year far far fewer than 35 million per year.

:)

Believe 35 million per day might just be a bit overstated as that would mean 96000 per day which is probably more than all the ocean going ship in the world. Might believe 100 per day and that would about 36 thousand per year far far fewer than 35 million per year.

I make so many typos that I am relieved that I did say 35 million per year - not per day. On the other hand, math isn't my thing. So, if there were 35 million contained ships per year, what would that be per day? I only have a simple calculator and probably read it incorrectly. It appear from this site http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ports/1253 that 36,951 vessels (of all types) were in port from December 22 - January 4th (22,904 were container ships). So, while my "per day" number was way off, there are a heck of a lot of ships in port every day in Shanghai.

P.S. The 35 million per year number is from Wikipedia

Foyt - It appears that your approximation of 100 total ships per day might be in the right ballpark (although a bit high) for the Port of Shanghai, as World Port Source states that each month over 2,000 container ships leave the port. Container ships are the primary type of ship using the huge port complex.

The figure of 35 million per year is indeed a relevant figure; but it refers not to ships but rather to TEU's, which are "twenty-foot equivalent units", describing those big metal boxes that container ships carry. Container ships carry hundreds of those containers.

Thus, it appears that there are between 25,000 and 30,000 ships per year (65 - 75 ships per day) using the port, carrying about 35 million containers. That makes Shanghai the busiest container port in the world, surpassing Singapore in the last few years.

However, according to the official website for the Port of Shanghai, the cruise ship terminal is in a separate area. As I have not cruised into that port, I cannot verify how separate that area might be. Sorry.

When we did the Beijing to Bangkok cruise a couple of years ago that stopped in Shanghai, we were also late and missed time in Shanghai. The excuse at that time was they ran into a pool of exceptionally cold water that affected the pods. Didn't buy it then and still don't but it was what it was.

In Shanghai you dock right downtown across from the Bund and it was fabulous especially if you are on that side of the ship. We had great views of the light show at night right from our cabin. i think we were on the starboard side but can't swear to it.

Of course that could have changed since we did it but i would still assume that you dock downtown. Between tides, traffic and the Chinese immigration i can see you might have issues. I just wish they would be upfront and tell you what the real issue is. Mind you in the age of social media maybe they don't want to blame the Chinese and tarnish a relationship with them so they make up some kind of excuse.

In Beijing you dock way out of town (4 hour trip) at a very sterile cruise port. Not a thing to see or do anywhere near the port.

Have a super cruise. We loved the pre and post cruise tours and the entire cruise except the disappointment of missing time in Shanghai. We made it up on our next cruise so it all worked out.

We had the same experience as 1982CruzStart and docked right in the centre of Shanghai - I posted a picture on my blog of the view from our suite at the end of this post here http://www.elegantsufficiency.org/blog/2013/3/5/ni-hao-shanghai.html I second his Beijing comments too - it's a lengthy transfer into the city from the port.

Amazingly, I note that it was 2013 when we did a similar itinerary to this (where do the years go?) but maybe some of the blog posts I wrote then (tagged "china") could be useful and give you an idea of what to expect. Like Flossie said, Beijing can be really cold in March, so be prepared!

Oh and I doubt that there is any connection between the Regent hotel and the cruise line, even though the logo is similar/same. I believe there is a thread way back on this list about this very subject and how it came about but don't really know how to find it - sorry.

We had the same experience as 1982CruzStart and docked right in the centre of Shanghai - I posted a picture on my blog of the view from our suite at the end of this post here http://www.elegantsufficiency.org/blog/2013/3/5/ni-hao-shanghai.html I second his Beijing comments too - it's a lengthy transfer into the city from the port.

 

Amazingly, I note that it was 2013 when we did a similar itinerary to this (where do the years go?) but maybe some of the blog posts I wrote then (tagged "china") could be useful and give you an idea of what to expect. Like Flossie said, Beijing can be really cold in March, so be prepared!

 

Oh and I doubt that there is any connection between the Regent hotel and the cruise line, even though the logo is similar/same. I believe there is a thread way back on this list about this very subject and how it came about but don't really know how to find it - sorry.

Maybe we were on the same cruise as we did ours in 2013 as well.

It was very chilly in Beijing when we were there in March 2013. If your tour includes a trip to the Great Wall in March bring gloves and a hat and wear layers, it was cold up there.

Ooo, 1982CruzStart, do the photographs on my blog look familiar!? (spooky!) Do you remember being cold in Dalian as well? (we flew kites and had huge fun)

It was a great cruise - we loved it and even though we had no intentions to return to China, we enjoyed our few days there. (I think that's really enough for us now though!)