Celebrity Limited Handicapped Accessibility

Just came back from a cruise on Celebrity Solstice to the British Isles. My wife uses an electric scooter. Unfortunately, Celebrity has limited handicapped accessibility and you don't find out about it until you get to certain ports.

The problem is that apparently Celebrity has a policy which precludes electric mobility devices (scooters, wheelchairs) from tenders, essentially making tender ports inaccessible.

From the Celebrity daily newsletter of 7/22/2016 (which was typical):

"Tender Service Information:

For safety considerations, motorized wheelchairs and scooters can not be transferred via the Tenders to the pier. Guests must be able to walk down the tender platform without assistance to be able to go ashore.

Physically challenged guests are reminded that access to ports of call may be limited or prohibited depending on the prevailing local conditions, weather and seas. In some cases, these ports may not be wheelchair accessible due to safety concerns."

My main problem here is that this information was not made available at time of booking, although there is a somewhat obscure reference to it on Celebrity's website if you go down about 4 or 5 links. Further, I asked about handicapped accessibility on tours PRIOR to leaving by filling out their forms and never got a response. I then asked at the tour desk when booking additional tours on the ship and was told no problem until we arrived at the port.

To be fair, after complaining the ship did make certain accomodations to us as follows:

At one port while not allowed to transfer the scooter, we were provided with a manual wheelchair at the port. The manual chair was large and clunky and difficult to push. It afforded some limited mobility.

At one port we could not disembark at all as there were stairs on the port side of where the tender docked.

At one port I was allowed to break down the mobility scooter (it is a travel scooter and breaks down into multiple pieces) and carry the pieces myself on board the tender with some assistance from Celebrity.

Note that I have never seen this on any other cruise line. Further, the ship has an electic lift which could have been used to aid scooter transport.

It is the same on all cruise lines. The ship has stairs, and platforms to tenders at some ports. They cannot physically alter the ship for anyone. I'm sorry you were disappointed. Let this be a learning curve and plan differently for future cruises without tender ports.

I've been disabled since the age of two, and have used a mobility scooter full time for 9 years. While I can sympathize with your plight, I really think common sense would tell you that if someone uses a mobility scooter, and they don't have their own portable wheelchair, and if they can't step onto a tender, not only because of stairs and such, that tender ports will be inaccessible. This is something I've had to come to grips with since I started cruising. I don't know if you've been on other cruises, but I've been on more than 90, on nearly every cruise line out there, and VERY few have tender lifts. And, no cruise line controls how a local port builds their tender docks, so even if your wife could get onto the tender, there's no way to know if the dock would be accessible. I've been to ports where the tender dock was totally inaccessible not only for scooters, but for wheelchairs and walkers. I remember one in Ireland where I could wheel onto the tender, but the port dock was impossible because of stairs and a huge step up onto the dock. I had to tender back to the ship. Was I disappointed? Sure. But I've come to understand that it's the nature of the beast and part of being disabled.

What would you do if your wife were injured while getting into a tender? What if the ship would lurch upwards or downwards while she was getting on and she fell? Cruise lines know their business, and they want their passengers safe and yes, they don't want the liability, but who can blame them on that? I can't begin to tell you how many ports I've missed because they were tender ports, but like I said, it's something that I've learned to live with.

There are some ports, VERY few, that use local tenders where you can roll right onto the boat, but you won't find them very often, especially in Europe. If you want to continue to cruise, I suggest you do what I do and choose cruises with no tender ports. That's your only choice if you want to continue to cruise.

As for your blanket assertion that Celebrity has limited accessibility, I have to disagree. Celebrity's S class ships are, from my personal experience, the MOST accessible ships at sea.

And regardless of how well or poorly Celebrity or any other line does with accessibility, remember that the overriding factor is that the ADA does not fully apply to foreign flag cruise ships, and as the previous poster mentions, it certainly doesn't apply to the docks in ports of call. While newer ships have to have more accessibility in their design, older ships are only required to make changes to barriers that are "easily accomplished" (this from the US Supreme Court case "Specter v. NCL"). The court also very pointedly noted that the "internal practices and policies" of the ships do not fall under the aegis of the ADA, so policies like tendering are not covered.

I am thinking that this may vary ship to ship and line to line. Tender ports and those out of the US are definitely a problem. However I recall the tender crews (plus more help) loading one of our CC group on multiple tenders. The seas were rough and these men put out a huge effort to do this. I have not seen that on other ships. This was the HAL Rotterdam in the South Pacific. The person was on some of our group's private tours and somehow her scooter was loaded into the back of a pickup truck where she could see the countryside although she didn't get out of the truck.

OP, sorry you had this experience. Before booking anything else I'd call the Accommodations Department of the cruise line you're considering and find out the options up front since they were not automatically given to you. Don't know if that's a cruise line issue or a travel agent issue, but you may need to take the lead in this to avoid another problem.

Our friend in a wheelchair now cruises in only US ports after several difficult experiences. On the other hand there was a young Australian woman on our Panama Canal cruise who somehow managed to get her lightweight chair into places where I'd never have thought she could make it. (She was a solo traveler.) When we did the crocodile cruise in Costa Rica, her chair was on the bow of the boat! I imagine all these things are dependent on what a person can do independently or with family help and what the cruise line is willing to assign staff to do.

Hope you can find a way to cruise happily!

While planning our upcoming cruise to Alaska with a disabled family member I found all this information on the Celebrity website about the ships and ports of call. In fact, when shopping for shore excursions you can limit your search to accessible excursions.

On a recent transpacific cruise that stopped in Maui, a handicapped person was VERY seriously injured while trying to step from a lifeboat/tender to the ship. Her leg was not just broken, but crushed and horribly mangled by the mass of the lifeboat being driven repeatedly into the side of the boarding ramp by the rough waves. She received immediate, emergency medical treatment on board the ship, but had to be evacuated to shore facilities in under an hour. :eek:

This is totally...completely... and utterly UNACCEPTABLE in our modern and more enlightened society. :mad:

EACH and *E*V*E*R*Y* port facility... EVERYWHERE in the world, should be REQUIRED by international law to build whatever piers, boarding ramps or other facilities are needed for ANY and ALL handicapped persons to safely embark or disembark without compromising their safety. :cool:

Each and EVERY cruise ship should be REQUIRED by international law to add or modify WHATEVER equipment is necessary to ensure universal accessibility and the COMPLETE safety of ALL passengers. ;)

The cost of these reasonable and necessary measures might very well amount to billions of dollars, and even in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event that those costs need to be passed on to cruise ship customers, it is only fair, if that's what it takes to ensure EVERONE has an equal opportunity to enjoy cruising. :rolleyes:

On a recent transpacific cruise that stopped in Maui, a handicapped person was VERY seriously injured while trying to step from a lifeboat/tender to the ship. Her leg was not just broken, but crushed and horribly mangled by the mass of the lifeboat being driven repeatedly into the side of the boarding ramp by the rough waves. She received immediate, emergency medical treatment on board the ship, but had to be evacuated to shore facilities in under an hour.

 

This is totally...completely... and utterly UNACCEPTABLE in our modern and more enlightened society.

 

EACH and *E*V*E*R*Y* port facility... EVERYWHERE in the world, should be REQUIRED by international law to build whatever piers, boarding ramps or other facilities are needed for ANY and ALL handicapped persons to safely embark or disembark without compromising their safety.

 

Each and EVERY cruise ship should be REQUIRED by international law to add or modify WHATEVER equipment is necessary to ensure universal accessibility and the COMPLETE safety of ALL passengers.

 

The cost of these reasonable and necessary measures might very well amount to billions of dollars, and even in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY event that those costs need to be passed on to cruise ship customers, it is only fair, if that's what it takes to ensure EVERONE has an equal opportunity to enjoy cruising.

As a person with limited walking capability, I often use a wheelchair when I travel and feel compelled to respond to your post. While I appreciate your outrage on behalf of the handicapped, the things you are suggesting cannot realistically be ensured. We in the US have the ADA and while there are some other countries with a similar act, it is obviously not worldwide and we do not have the right to force other countries to enact a similar law. Should every country have an ADA act of its own? Of course, they should...but many of them can't afford these modifications.

What happened in Maui is terrible and I feel very sorry for the woman who was badly injured transferring from the ship to the tender. However, by virtue of your description that the "lifeboat was driven repeatedly into the side of the boarding ramp by the rough seas" it would appear that she should never have been allowed to even attempt such a risky transfer. I have been in ports (Santorini) where there were rough seas and the captain announced that people who could not manage unassisted would not be permitted off the ship because it was too dangerous.

I do not believe that every port facility in the world should be required to "build whatever piers, ramps, or other facilities necessary for every person, regardless of handicap, to embark or disembark in complete safety". Nor should every ship be required to "add or modify whatever is necessary to ensure universal accessibility". I have found that most hotels in large cities throughout the world are accessible to wheelchair passengers and among cruise lines I think Celebrity does an outstanding job of making the handicapped feel welcome and comfortable while on board, I know they've always treated me with respect and courtesy. But to expect a company or country to spend what "might amount to billions of dollars" and not pass that cost on to its customers or visitors is unrealistic. I have friends who's homes are not handicapped compliant....do I have the right to demand that they install ramps so I can visit them? I don't think I do.

Your heart is in the right place and it's nice to know that somebody notices and cares about the handicapped enough to feel real anger, and in a perfect world all people regardless of handicap would be able to enjoy all the wonderful things on this planet..but it's not a perfect world and we can only do the best we can. :)

As a person with limited walking capability, I often use a wheelchair when I travel and feel compelled to respond to your post. While I appreciate your outrage on behalf of the handicapped, the things you are suggesting cannot realistically be ensured. We in the US have the ADA and while there are some other countries with a similar act, it is obviously not worldwide and we do not have the right to force other countries to enact a similar law. Should every country have an ADA act of its own? Of course, they should...but many of them can't afford these modifications.

 

What happened in Maui is terrible and I feel very sorry for the woman who was badly injured transferring from the ship to the tender. However, by virtue of your description that the "lifeboat was driven repeatedly into the side of the boarding ramp by the rough seas" it would appear that she should never have been allowed to even attempt such a risky transfer. I have been in ports (Santorini) where there were rough seas and the captain announced that people who could not manage unassisted would not be permitted off the ship because it was too dangerous.

 

I do not believe that every port facility in the world should be required to "build whatever piers, ramps, or other facilities necessary for every person, regardless of handicap, to embark or disembark in complete safety". Nor should every ship be required to "add or modify whatever is necessary to ensure universal accessibility". I have found that most hotels in large cities throughout the world are accessible to wheelchair passengers and among cruise lines I think Celebrity does an outstanding job of making the handicapped feel welcome and comfortable while on board, I know they've always treated me with respect and courtesy. But to expect a company or country to spend what "might amount to billions of dollars" and not pass that cost on to its customers or visitors is unrealistic. I have friends who's homes are not handicapped compliant....do I have the right to demand that they install ramps so I can visit them? I don't think I do.

 

Your heart is in the right place and it's nice to know that somebody notices and cares about the handicapped enough to feel real anger, and in a perfect world all people regardless of handicap would be able to enjoy all the wonderful things on this planet..but it's not a perfect world and we can only do the best we can. :)

Well said.

As a person with limited walking capability, I often use a wheelchair when I travel and feel compelled to respond to your post. While I appreciate your outrage on behalf of the handicapped, the things you are suggesting cannot realistically be ensured. We in the US have the ADA and while there are some other countries with a similar act, it is obviously not worldwide and we do not have the right to force other countries to enact a similar law. Should every country have an ADA act of its own? Of course, they should...but many of them can't afford these modifications.

 

What happened in Maui is terrible and I feel very sorry for the woman who was badly injured transferring from the ship to the tender. However, by virtue of your description that the "lifeboat was driven repeatedly into the side of the boarding ramp by the rough seas" it would appear that she should never have been allowed to even attempt such a risky transfer. I have been in ports (Santorini) where there were rough seas and the captain announced that people who could not manage unassisted would not be permitted off the ship because it was too dangerous.

 

I do not believe that every port facility in the world should be required to "build whatever piers, ramps, or other facilities necessary for every person, regardless of handicap, to embark or disembark in complete safety". Nor should every ship be required to "add or modify whatever is necessary to ensure universal accessibility". I have found that most hotels in large cities throughout the world are accessible to wheelchair passengers and among cruise lines I think Celebrity does an outstanding job of making the handicapped feel welcome and comfortable while on board, I know they've always treated me with respect and courtesy. But to expect a company or country to spend what "might amount to billions of dollars" and not pass that cost on to its customers or visitors is unrealistic. I have friends who's homes are not handicapped compliant....do I have the right to demand that they install ramps so I can visit them? I don't think I do.

 

Your heart is in the right place and it's nice to know that somebody notices and cares about the handicapped enough to feel real anger, and in a perfect world all people regardless of handicap would be able to enjoy all the wonderful things on this planet..but it's not a perfect world and we can only do the best we can. :)

Brava.

As another cruiser with limited mobility, I agree completely with what you said. I've never had a complaint with the accessibility aboard ship. And I always felt it was my responsibility, and mine alone, to properly research my trips and determine what was possible and safe for me to do, based on the existing facilities in each port. Universal accessibility is no where near to being a reality, or even a possibility. Accept that and plan accordingly.

We are incredibly lucky to live in a country, and in a time, when accessibility has become so much easier. Less than a generation ago, we couldn't have said that. But I think it is hubris to think that we have the right to demand similar accommodations in other countries.

Teecee60, what you suggest just isn't feasible. Now, back in 2005, in the case of Spector vs NCL, the US Supreme Court ruled that foreign flagged ships that cruise into or out of US ports, must follow the ADA, "where feasible". By this they meant that cruise lines must make their ships accessible to all, but not if it causes undue financial hardship or if it means changes to the superstructure of the ship. So basically what the ruling said is that cruise ships must provide accessible cabins, provide things like grab bars and accessible stalls in their public restrooms, access to exterior decks and all public rooms inside the ship. Since making tenders accessible for all means changing the structure of the ship, it just won't be required. In all reality, cruise ships are probably one of the most accessible parts of the travel industry (with the exception of Viking Ocean Cruises, who's ship doesn't have any accessible cabins and they explicitly state that scooters are not welcome---this should be interesting when Viking starts sailing in North America).

With all the smileys in Teecee60s post, I took it as being facetious or perhaps sarcasm. But I've been wrong before.

With all the smileys in Teecee60s post, I took it as being facetious or perhaps sarcasm.........

It was so impractical and unrealistic that the wording alone made it obviously tongue-in-cheek

(using exaggeration to make a point),

but the additional inclusion of the emoticons for wink ;) and sarcasm :rolleyes: confirmed the writer's intention.

Maybe the readers who took it seriously were using devices that did not display the emoticons, or possibly were unaware of their meaning.

But in any case, it would be hard to think that someone was serious saying

"EACH and *E*V*E*R*Y* port facility... EVERYWHERE in the world, should be REQUIRED by international law to build whatever piers, boarding ramps or other facilities are needed for ANY and ALL handicapped persons to safely embark or disembark without compromising their safety. "

when this would be impossible to do for even the most physically fit able-bodied persons.

I am not sure how long the tender service policy as detailed by the OP has been in operation but we were able to get ashore in Villefranche from Eclipse by tender, all without my wife leaving her wheelchair.

We did have to register with guest services and confirm that my wife could "stand" out of her wheelchair, but she was not required to transfer to the tender on foot. She was transported down the steps to the tender staging on a lift platform then wheeled across onto a shore-side tender then wheeled off over a short gangway onto the pier, and she remained in her chair the entire time.

The sea was flat calm which obviously helped, I imagine it would not have proved possible in any significant swell.

I have some serious medical conditions. I look pretty healthy but have limits what I can do. I have accepted this. I can get on a tender with no problems. But there are many tours I can not do, again I accept this limit. There have been activities that I have had to give up. Yes I miss them, but again I accept my limits. I have been question by strangers why I us a wheelchair at the airports. I have to pull my oxygen machine, it to hard for me.

I would not expect things to change, because I can not do them. I accept ny disability. I feel if you have should accept would you can do , not what you can not do. I love to travel and are so glad that I can still cruise, if I have to stay on the ship, It better then sitting home.

CantanaLobo and varoo are correct... my post was a Poe's Law response to the OP.

 

I have some serious medical conditions. I look pretty healthy but have limits. I have accepted this. I can get on a tender with no problems. But there are many tours I can not do' date=' again I accept this limit.

 

[i']I would not expect things to change, because I can not do them. I accept my disability.[/i]

Thank you... YOUR view of your handicap (and reality) seems completely different from many others'.

I would have LIKED to wear a US Army "Green Beret" but was not born with the physical attributes required, and "settled" for Army Aviator Wings.

I would have LIKED to wear the "Trident" of a Navy SEAL, but was not born with the physical attributes required, and "settled" for Naval Aviator Wings.

Changing the requirements to accommodate ME, would have been counterproductive.

 

I always felt it was my responsibility, and mine alone, to properly research my trips and determine what was possible and safe for me to do, based on the existing facilities in each port.

 

Universal accessibility is no where near to being a reality, or even a possibility.

 

We are incredibly lucky to live in a country, and in a time, when accessibility has become so much easier.

 

But I think it is hubris to think that we have the right to demand similar accommodations in other countries.

Thank you for what I consider a reasonable view of the unkind reality of physical handicaps.

It is ONLY because we "live in a country and in a time" of incredible and never-before-seen wealth and compassion, that the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars was available and actually spent to implement the ADA.

The significant question is... at what point between individual awareness and economics does reality set in?

It is only FAIR that everyone else should pay for my plastic surgery AND supplement my bank accounts so I can be equal to Brad Pitt.