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Should I worry about Ochos Rios, Jamaica


Ithocles
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Hello All,

 

My partner and I are preparing for our second cruise leaving on January 30th. We've visited Grand Cayman and Cozumel before, but have never been to Jamaica. I didn't know how unfriendly they were to gay or lesbian travelers until after booking and am a little apprehensive now. I just read that Grand Cayman was a little unfriendly as well but we didn't have a problem at all last time.

 

While you all would peg us as gay anywhere, most often we get asked if we are brothers. However, we have matching ankle tattoos which should be a giveaway. As much as it bugs me to ask, how guarded should we be when in Jamaica? We are touring with Marva Shaw and will be doing Dunns River Falls, River Tubing, a Plantation Tour and a stop at a local Jerk restuarant. What have your experiences been like?

 

Thanks for any responses.

 

Regards,

 

Danny

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Hi Danny,

 

The Carribean, though beautiful, isn't the most embracing of Gay men and women. Unfortunately, many of these countries have real and active policies and attitudes of gay hatred and intolerance. There's a reason why gay charter cruises don't stop at many of these ports.

 

I doubt that your imediate safety is in jeopardy more than anyone else in Jamaica. The real question is whether you want to give this country any of your hard earned gay money. In Grand Caymen, my partner and I are enjoying the emptiness and quietness of the ship while in port, taking in some spa time and having a relaxing and romantic day. As far as the Caymen's go, the government was actively involved in the anti gay sentiment when they refused the entry of a gay chartered cruise ship. They allowed antigay demonstrations and issued a statement that gay men cannot be trusted to behave properly while in their country. I don't know about you, but I just don't feel comfortable giving a country like that one more dollar than I have to.

 

That's just my thought. Regardless, I hope you have a safe and happy cruise experience.

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Well you should be fairly safe as long as you're in a group. Jamaica isn't the safest country for anyone. But Jamica has a long history of allowing gays to be tortured, murdered, raped, mutilated, etc and the police look the other way. Personally I'd never get off a ship in Jamaica again but that's because I refuse to support a government that actively endorses poor treatment of gays.

 

Caymen is a little more civilized.... they don;t really kill gay people they just hate us quietly. Caymen has refused to allow Gay Charters to dock on mutliple occasions. And even as recently as last year two gay men were arrested in Grand Caymen for some trumped up charge because they were dancing together and kissed in a night club. Now, the charges were dropped but not before ruining the men's vacation I'm sure. Again, this is one of those island where I won't get off the ship..period.

 

And yes, I know each port gets a head tax so they make a little money regardless of whether I get off the ship or not. But they are hard ports to avoid. I have one cruise next year with a stop in Caymen and almost didn't do the cruise but decided instead just to have a Spa and Sun day.

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If you're with a group excursion, you'll probably be fine so long as you stay with the group. By all means, do not stray off of the "tourist" path- I'd say this for anybody, but times 1,000,000 for a gay couple. I agree with the previous poster who opts to stay on the boat for a quiet day.

 

Grand Cayman is less dangerous, but absolutely no more supportive (truth be told, they probably hate Jamaicans more than they hate gays). Probably no real danger, and you're probably about as likely to get looked at funny (or maybe some rude comments) as you are in a lot of places in the United States, sadly enough.

 

Have fun and be safe!

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Thanks for the words of caution. While I'll feel better about spending my hard earned dollars during our Alaskan cruise, which is unfortunately almost two years off, I'm going to brave Jamaica and be careful. We aren't partiers or drinkers, so there isn't much of a chance of us getting sloppy somewhere. I will have to watch myself when hollering "Dear!" when he doesn't respond quickly enough to me! <grin> If I were to restrict my spending to gay-friendly places, I would only be going to Canada, some of Europe and Austrailia. Kidding...kidding. I'd have a rough time of it here in Oklahoma though.

 

I hope to hear more about experiences in Jamaica.

 

-Danny

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Forget it, bbenson. Have a great cruise, Ithocles.

 

But did you even search just this forum on the term "jamaica"? I know you're at a computer, so did you think to maybe Google "gays in jamaica" before spending your money there?

 

And before people jump on me for being a hater, this is the GAY forum and I WILL be militant here about visiting jamaica.

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I didn't search for "gays in Jamaica" before booking, and probably won't for future trips either. Unless I love the island, I probably won't go in the future. I'm not going to let homophobia stop me from getting the experience of traveling. And when I do travel to places less friendly to us, I hope to find like-minded gay men and women who will give me words of advice and/or caution, which for the most part I can get here, for which I give thanks.

 

My activism isn't conducted through my pocketbook, but through the way I live my life. It takes those of us who are less militant to change the mind of those that are militant on the other side of things. It sounds like Jamaica could use a homo-ambassador or two! <grin> We need activism of all types.

 

Regards,

 

Danny

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I didn't search for "gays in Jamaica" before booking, and probably won't for future trips either. Unless I love the island, I probably won't go in the future. I'm not going to let homophobia stop me from getting the experience of traveling. And when I do travel to places less friendly to us, I hope to find like-minded gay men and women who will give me words of advice and/or caution, which for the most part I can get here, for which I give thanks.

 

My activism isn't conducted through my pocketbook, but through the way I live my life. It takes those of us who are less militant to change the mind of those that are militant on the other side of things. It sounds like Jamaica could use a homo-ambassador or two! <grin> We need activism of all types.

 

Regards,

 

Danny

 

I understand how you feel. Unfortunately we live in a world that understands one thing slightly more than anything else. That's money. It seems people are more apt to be influenced socially and politically when it comes to their own pocket book rather than their hearts. Am I sounding bitter <grin>?

 

Even setting aside any fear of your own safety at some of these places, there are other reasons. I just keep thinking about all those guys on the deck of those ships, pulling up to port and seeing all the whack-job protesters waving signs, chanting and mocking them as they tried to dock. Man, I can imagine the mixture of emotions going through them. Anger, embarrassment, fear, pain, and perhaps pity for those ignorant people. I can bet that few of those guys were eager to get off and probably not in any hurry to get back after such an ordeal.

 

I would be hesitant to compare hatred of gays in this country to those in the Carribean. Here, the Matthew Shephard tragedy was seen as a shock to most people and was denounced by the majority. Unfortunately, in those countries, violence like that doesn't just happen often but is tolerated, condoned and even promoted by their own government. I don't want to sound preachy, 'cause i'm not that much of a militant protester myself. It just may be something to think about.

 

Your original thread asked if you should worry about Ochos Rios. The fact that you are asking, is pretty good indication that there is something in the back of your mind. This place is dangerous for anybody and I wouldn't send any of my own family members there. And like pidaho71 says, a thousand times scarier for people like us.

 

No matter what you do, just please be careful. Happy and safe cruising :)

 

Nate

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Husband and I were there in 2005 on a RCC excursion to Dunns River Falls. We had heard that Jamaica wasn't all that great of a place to ride off on your own, gay or straight so we stayed with the tour group all the time. At one point we wanted to avoid the throng of sellers hanging around the bus load-in so we scooted around a back way from the entrance to the bus.

 

We were yelled at by someone who noticed us avoiding the market. We waved and kept walking to which this guy started to call us homos, ******s etc - others joined in. To be clear we weren't engaging in any kind of PDAs nor did we give them reason to go down that route of badgering other than we were just two guys together, avoiding their market.

 

We got to the tour bus without any other incident. It was odd and we put it down to islanders angry that we were cheap. As more reports come out of Jamaica of torture, harassment and murder I can't help but wonder.

 

Would I go back? Not now, after all that's been happening down there.

 

As for the Caymans, I and 4 other gay friends went there on another cruise without any incident or comment from anyone. This is the first time I've heard anything about the island's ill treatment of gays. Thanks!

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I don't want to sound preachy, 'cause i'm not that much of a militant protester myself. It just may be something to think about.

 

Nate

 

Not really a militant protester here either but, I see no point giving my money to someone that flat out "hates" me. Ya know protests and letter writting etc are all well and good but I think its the small little things we do in life that end up having far greater consequences. Besides, other than it's own natural beauty Jamiaca is a bit of a slum anyway.

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Should I worry about Ochos Rios, Jamaica

 

Yes, Jamaica is a total hell hole. Ocho Rios was one of the ports we visited many years ago (early 90s) on an RSVP cruise. The welcoming we received from some locals at the pier was the shouting of "AIDS Ship" and "go away." Needless to say, we didn't stay off of the ship for long. To my knowledge, RSVP hasn't been back since. There are plenty of places to visit that appreciate you spending your hard earned dollar.

Edited by mhrm60
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I've been to Jamaica numerous times (cruise and land resorts) before I knew how homophobic this country is. It's probably one of the most homophobia countries in the world from what I've read. Jamaicans as a whole are friendly, easy going "no problems mon" kind of people; however, they are also very conservative religiously which is typical of most Caribbean Islands and thus homosexuality is really frown upon. It's just unfortunately ingrained in their cultural and it's not likely to change soon. That being said...as long you are on a tour and stay in the touristy area you shouldn't have any problems. Jamaica is a beautiful lush island with incredible beaches. Thousands of tourist visit Jamaica every year without incidence, but Jamaica is also a poor third world country and it can be very dangerous off the beaten path. Jamaicans are more interested in selling you something than hurting you...however if you should wonder off and they assume you are a gay (batty boys - Jamaican term for gay), you could be in serious trouble if you just happened to be around the wrong people at the wrong time. Just use common sense and you'll have a great time.

Edited by COMBOY
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But I am careful about whom gets to withdraw from my gayTM. My trip to Jamaica and Grand Cayman was on the same cruise, before I had even come out of the ol' closet. Knowing what I know now, I'd never consider going to either of them again- especially Jamaica.

 

But no judgement towards anybody who does choose to go. My guess is that you'll find no burning need to ever go back- though the beaches and water are pretty, the whole island is a s*ithole of a tourist trap- slum doesn't begin to cover it, from what I saw in Montego Bay. There was, literally, garbage and filth EVERYWHERE. And as far as the Jamaican's disgust at me for being gay? I'm not terribly concerned about the opinions of people whose highest ambition is to live in such squalor and sit around getting stoned all day, truth be told!

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Thank you all for sharing your experiences and thoughts. It's hard to think back and consider if I would make the same decision on this itinerary again. I'm ready for a trip to the southern carribean, and especially want to visit St. Lucia. Alaska is going to be my present from my partner after I finish my dissertation in a little over a year...fingers crossed.

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My partner and I are preparing for our second cruise leaving on January 30th. We've visited Grand Cayman and Cozumel before, but have never been to Jamaica. I didn't know how unfriendly they were to gay or lesbian travelers until after booking and am a little apprehensive now. I just read that Grand Cayman was a little unfriendly as well but we didn't have a problem at all last time.

 

Visit this web site and decide: http://www.boycottjamaica.org/

 

It's an awful, awful place.

 

Mike

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Danny,

 

Having been to Jamaica twice I can tell you that you really should be careful while in port. I wouldn't venture on any excursion ashore unless it was with Princess and even then I would just rather stay onboard. The island is corrupt as they come. Robbers are waiting along side the roads to get tourist vehicles and steal from them (it's happened but thankfully not on either of the two visits I had there).

 

My two experiences have been the following: The first time was on the Coral Princess 10-day in 2003. I did the gardens with the Dunn Rivers Falls. I got separated from my mom and sister when I climbed the falls and they didn't. There is a vendor village at the falls and you have to watch yourself carefully to get through it and still have your wallet and not have someone befriend you and take you into their tent to sell you something. They say it's a gift and it's a royal crock of crap! :eek: I couldn't locate my sister or mom when I climbed the top of the falls and I went through the village twice. The third time through when it was getting time for us to get back to the bus to leave I did discover them cornered by two people in the back of a tent. I didn't care for the situation at all and because they were two women who didn't know better they were being taken advantage of. I can't even fathom to think what would have happened had I not shown up. You be careful if that little vendor tent city exists on the way out. They're going to come up to you whether you make eye contact or not. VERY PUSHY.

 

Second experience in Ocho Rios again was at the International Pier on the Caribbean Princess. This time with the first experience we decided to go to Margaritaville which we heard wasn't too far of a walk from the port. This particular cruise I had an impaired mobility issue since I had a surprise orthoscopic knee surgery three weeks prior. With an ace wrapped knee and limping along I made it to the marketplace. Once inside there is a no local policy so you are not harassed. On the way there the harassment was intense. People would sell you weed, cops around the corner to nail you if you did because the cops would get a kick back from the weed dealer for doing it and then the cops would rob you blind because you were afraid to stay so you'd give them all your money to get out of trouble. The corruption there is unbelievable. I didn't personally experience the weed bit but some young cruisers on my sailing did. Alleged cab drivers are also ones to be leary of!

 

Advice: Stay on the ship if you can OR go ashore in a group of people and do NOT separate yourself from other tourists - especially those from the ship. You are stronger in numbers then individually and this is advice for anyone gay or straight going there. (Thankfully Princess dumped them as a port call this year but that was too little too late for me. NCL has a habit of NOT going there and that's another reason I LOVE NCL!)

 

Be careful but have fun!

~Jake

 

PS. I spent one whole week in the Cayman Islands in May 2001 and I loved it there. The people are hospitable irregardless of your gay or straight status. They are a very religious island but they're not in your face bashers unless you're doing public signs of affection. Holding hands doesn't get too bad of looks but kissing will get you glares. I love the Caymans. So much better and the cleanest island in the Western Caribbean.

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I haven't been to Jamaica.

 

I've been to homophobic China, Russia (twice), Alaska (twice), Oklahoma (I actually just typed Oklahomo.... ;)) and New York, where even the senate is aligned against us.

 

The difference between the places I've been, and Jamaica...is that Jamaican homophobia is reflected in violence.

 

They don't just hate you. They try to eliminate you.

 

 

Read the lyrics of Buju Banton, http://www.jamaicancaves.org/boom-bye-bye-lyrics.html or this site about crime against tourists: http://www.jamaicancaves.org/jamaica-crime.htm Here's what they say about homophobia: "Homophobia: If you are gay, don't even consider stepping foot on the island. Not only is it illegal to be homosexual in Jamaica, some Jamaicans believe that gays should be killed. The primary musical genre, Dancehall, is replete with songs that encourage this [4], [5], [6]. This belief is often acted upon, such as with the recent murder of Steve Harvey."

 

 

Visiting and taking photos does not an Ambassador make. The only impact you can have on the island is to either enrich them, or not.

 

What do governments do when another country is behaving in an unfortunate manner? Sanctions. They restrict the flow of money. That is the only thing that works.

 

Just remember....YOU may get through the island safely....but the money you spend there may be used to buy the gun which kills one of your gay bretheren (or sisteren. :confused:)

Edited by sjbdtz
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Thank you to a number of people for posting eloquent and very concise arguments as to why visiting Jamaica is categorically the wrong thing to do.

 

Given the feedback on a number of other forums, I'm amazed that straight people find the need to visit and spend their tourist dollars there. I can find many other caribbean islands that aren't out to hassle and harass me when I'm in their country.

 

I won't on principal take any cruise that even stops in a Jamaican port - even my port taxes can find a better home that this miserable island.

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Wow interesting thread. Never planned on going to Jamaica just because its the armpit of the western hemisphere but didn't realize it had such a violent history toward gays.

 

Guess i will put it right down there with Iran on my must see destinations....

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I visited Jamaica once many years ago before I was aware of the virulent homophobia that permeates the culture. The only redeeming feature of the island are its glorious beaches - but glorious beaches are a dime a dozen in the Caribbean! Now, knowing what I know about Jamaica, I try to avoid itineraries that call there. If the ship I am on does stop there I won't get off; I won't spend any of my discretionary dollars in a country whose culture actively foments hatred of any minority group, and more importantly encourages violence against its own gay citizens. Like 'wisebear' above, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I supported the economy of such a country. In fact, I have provided information re: homophobia in Jamaica to several straight friends who have then decided to boycott Jamaica. In addition, I along with many others have lobbied our own (Canadian) government to be more receptive to refugee claims from gay Jamaicans who are at great risk in their own country. In the last analysis we each have to live with our own conscience!

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sjbdtz - Did you just say New York? Really? Why? Because they won't pass gay marriage? Darlin, that is far from homophobia! You would have to count 44 more states with them. Actually, we live on the border with New York and New Jersey and since we were married in Canada in 2005, we find it easier to go into New York for medical treatment, which recognizes a Canadian marriage as legal. Get a grip!

Ok, as to the main topic, we first visited Jamaica in either 95 or 96 (OJ was being "chased" at 40 miles per hour down the highway as we were packing the night before, so you figure it out). We rented a villa in St. Anne's Bay with a view of Dunn's River Falls. Spectacular pool, A giant Master Suite, a staff of 4, a cook, a housekeeper, a groundskeeper/poolguy and security guard at night. We were right on the beach. Paradise. We hired a private van & guide that took us up through the Fern Gulley up to the top of a mountain outside Ocho Rios one day where we sat and got drunk in relative safety. We floated in the pool all time time while Manda, our cook made the most glorious ganja tea. I still miss my Ackee and Eggs. It was Paradise. Nobody had a problem, but we were together about 10 years already and didn't need too many PDAs.

We went again in 2004 on a cruise. We got off and turned right around and got back on. Things had obviously changed. We're bears. We look like bears. They may be thrid world, but they visit America often. It is a dangerous place for everyone, but particularly for us. Until they learn through loss of revenue, and they are a stubbornly stupid people, they just will have to suffer in third world poverty.

I fell the same ways about Alaska. Why give them my money? There are so many islands that either welcome us or look the other way: Puerto Rico, Aruba, Curacao, Bonaire (ignore), Barbadoa, St. Lucia (ignore), Grenada, St. Martin/Maarten, St. Thomas, BVI (getting iffy lately). St. Vincent & the Grenadines (do not give a hoot!).

Just my thoughts....Patrick

Edited by Wineguys
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sjbdtz - Did you just say New York? Really? Why? Because they won't pass gay marriage? Darlin, that is far from homophobia! You would have to count 44 more states with them. Actually, we live on the border with New York and New Jersey and since we were married in Canada in 2005, we find it easier to go into New York for medical treatment, which recognizes a Canadian marriage as legal. Get a grip!

 

No grip needed. It was a jest.

 

I didn't know that New York recognized Cdn marriage....now if we can get Obama to get rid of Doma, I can apply for Green Card, 'cause my spouse is US citizen (and Cdn)....then we can live in New York! :)

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