Anyone remember the SS United States?

There was an interesting article in yesterday's New York Times regarding this icon. Crystal Cruises has provisionally purchased the vessel with the intent of sinking $700 to $800 million in it for a makeover. Crystal envisions a cruise ship with world-wide itineraries. It was originally built in 1952 with the dual intent of a fast (really fast) Atlantic liner and, if necessary, a troop ship. It holds the record of being the fastest ship to cross the Atlantic. (3 days, 10 hours, and 40 minutes from NY to Southampton)

Crystal has a nine-month's option on the purchase to conduct a feasibility study. It's projected makeover include balconies, which the ship did not originally have.

For those of you who remember and who may have sailed on her, the possibility of sailing on her again may be tantalizing. I sailed from Southampton to NY in August 1962, after being overseas for two years. Whether it was the excitement of seeing Lady Liberty for the first time in two years or seeing my parents again, or the thrill of the ship itself, it was a voyage which is iron cast in my memory. Would love to see her reborn and to sail her once more.

Anyone else???

It always seems very sad to me that such a fascinating part of our maritime history has, in the main, disappeared. So many wonderful ships have ended their days being torn to pieces on an Indian shore.

Sadly these historic ships cost a fortune to maintain even when just docked, so I fear this initiative may well go the way of others. I very much hope not.

We sailed on Australis, which was once the SS America, and very similar to SS United States. She was an amazing ship and my first ever cruise ship. I was sad to see her beached and broken.

I'm on board the Crystal Symphony right now, and you can bet there's a buzz. One thing I do wonder about is how much a new version (reconfigured as an 800-passenger ship will resemble the old, or will it just be a new ship in an old shell. I think it's also unlikely to actually happen.

Roy

I would imagine the ship would have to be registered as a US vessel. If so, Crystal will find it a complete economic disaster. It will not return to service unless it can be reflagged.

I remember seeing her quite a few years ago when we were in Philadelphia.

She was so sad looking rusting away.

I'm on board the Crystal Symphony right now, and you can bet there's a buzz. One thing I do wonder about is how much a new version (reconfigured as an 800-passenger ship will resemble the old, or will it just be a new ship in an old shell. I think it's also unlikely to actually happen.

 

Roy

I agree.

I can't imagine sinking that kind of money into a rusting vessel that needs that a complete overhaul.

I'm on board the Crystal Symphony right now, and you can bet there's a buzz. One thing I do wonder about is how much a new version (reconfigured as an 800-passenger ship will resemble the old, or will it just be a new ship in an old shell. I think it's also unlikely to actually happen.

 

Roy

From what I read, it seems that it will be a new ship in an old shell. However, tests have been done on the ship and found to be in sound condition, despite whatever rust is present. However, the superstructure of the vessel, according to Wikipedia, had the "greatest use of aluminumi any construction project at that time." In 1992, the ship had been towed toTurkey and then to Ukraine, where the ship was completely stripped and asbestos removed. The main potential obstacle, according to a Crystal rep, is the question of any environmental problem.

If this ship can be reborn, it will give HAL some competition re Hawaii because it can probably avoid the Jones Act since it was built totally and flagged in the U.S., and all refurbishments will be in the States. I am getting that info from the NY Times. Why would Crystal want to flag it in another country?

Another story on this topic:

http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/13801-ss-united-states-deal-publicity-stunt-or-bad-idea.html

I watched the press conference. Not much on details, but from the gestalt from the Conservancy CEO I would bet that there will US registry. I was thinking I would pay the price to make it viable financially. I bet many others would s well.

Dennis

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This is about the 4th thread on different forums about the US.

One reason that NCL's attempt to renovate and reactivate the US failed was that the Conservancy, which ended up getting the ship from NCL for a song because of it, sued NCL in a class action suit to keep NCL from removing the power plant since they claim that the power plant is the unique feature that makes the ship historic. If they have given up on this point, I would suspect they will require the ship to remain under US flag.

To me, the only reason to revitalize this ship is to use its US construction as a way around the PVSA. For the money they are talking about for renovating, they could build a larger ship (hence more revenue) to pay back the capital cost faster.

There is really nothing left inside the ship other than the machinery. All of the interiors were removed decades ago in Turkey, when they removed the asbestos and other hazardous materials in a country with less than stellar environmental rules.

While the use of aluminum in the superstructure of the US was unique at the time, most cruise ships now routinely use aluminum on the upper decks to reduce the center of gravity.

Even with a ship that meets many of today's requirements for modern cruise ships, NCL with the POA must charge over twice as much as foreign flag competitors to break even. With fairly large ship and small passenger capacity, fares will be sky high for this.

And the renovation would not need to be done in the US to keep its PVSA certificate, but any repairs made overseas to a US flag vessel are subject to 50% customs duty on the total bill. This is still usually cheaper than doing the repairs in the US. US shipyards also do not have the experience in installing cruise ship interiors that northern European or Italian yards do.

No one cares for speed in a cruise ship anymore. Witness the Cunard ships that have slowed their transatlantic crossings from 5 days to 6 days. And they are still sailing full. Going back to the 5 day crossing would just about double the fuel consumed.

Crystal may be able to make this into an ultra-high end ship, but other than that, my feeling is that it would be best to Queen Mary it in NY harbor.

This ship was built at Newport News Shipbuilding & Dry Dock Company as it was known then and was the pride of that company for many years. Sadly, she was the last commercial vessel of that size (versus naval) to be built at the "yard."

For a time, USS United States was docked in Norfolk, VA before being sold and going overseas to be "stripped." Later, she was returned to U.S. where she's sat in Philadelphia for years.

The Mariners Museum here in Newport News has an exhibit with artifacts that feels as though you're on the ship. Very well done. Sadly, this may be the closest we ever get to experiencing this ship firsthand. Would we buy passage on a refurbished United States? As much as we might desire it, cost would be a big factor. We don't cruise Crystal now, as fares are too steep for us, so as much as I'd love to see their purchase option amount to this "grand old lady" sailing again, I don't foresee us buying tickets unless we found a "can't-pass-up" deal. BTW, the movie An Affair to Remember with Gary Grant & Deborah Kerr had some scenes shot aboard the ship.

We sailed on Australis, which was once the SS America, and very similar to SS United States. She was an amazing ship and my first ever cruise ship. I was sad to see her beached and broken.

We also sailed on the Australis from Sydney to Rotterdam in 1973, taking five weeks, 10 days of which were without sight of land across the Pacific. It started to get me down a bit and DH said he'd never go on a ship with me again! The rest is history as we will be embarking on our eighth HAL cruise in September.

Back to the Australis though: it's very sad to see how she ended up, broken in two pieces and an almost submerged rusting hulk. There are still parts that I recognise though.

Ozcruizer

I remember seeing her quite a few years ago when we were in Philadelphia.

She was so sad looking rusting away.

I live about 15 minutes north of Philly, and whenever we drive in I can see her distinctive stacks as we drive south on I-95. It truly is sad to see what was once such a grand ship in that state.

I have read a few articles on her condition and I was extremely surprised to hear that Crystal is considering purchasing and overhauling to put into service. I am no expert in this, but the pictures I've seen and the talk of how 'grounded' she is in the harbor...I can't see how economically this would be a smart investment.

I expected that someone would save her and as another poster said 'Queen Mary' her in NY. Imagine needing a pre- or post-cruise night in a hotel there...brilliant. I also think the regulations to fit her as a hotel would be much less expensive than what would be required to make her seaworthy for passenger service.

We sailed on Australis, which was once the SS America, and very similar to SS United States. She was an amazing ship and my first ever cruise ship. I was sad to see her beached and broken.

We also sailed on the Australis from Sydney to Rotterdam in 1973, taking five weeks, 10 days of which were without sight of land across the Pacific. It started to get me down a bit and DH said he'd never go on a ship with me again! The rest is history as we will be embarking on our eighth HAL cruise in September.

Back to the Australis though: it's very sad to see how she ended up, broken in two pieces and an almost submerged rusting hulk. There are still parts that I recognise though.

Ozcruizer

The first ship I remember being on was the SS America. My mother and I traveled back to the US from England in 1952 on her. It was also the first and last time I got seasick. :)

I live about 15 minutes north of Philly, and whenever we drive in I can see her distinctive stacks as we drive south on I-95. It truly is sad to see what was once such a grand ship in that state.

 

I have read a few articles on her condition and I was extremely surprised to hear that Crystal is considering purchasing and overhauling to put into service. I am no expert in this, but the pictures I've seen and the talk of how 'grounded' she is in the harbor...I can't see how economically this would be a smart investment.

 

I expected that someone would save her and as another poster said 'Queen Mary' her in NY. Imagine needing a pre- or post-cruise night in a hotel there...brilliant. I also think the regulations to fit her as a hotel would be much less expensive than what would be required to make her seaworthy for passenger service.

I love to look down when driving over the Bridge to Philly and see the SS United States sitting there--but sad that her condition has been fading.. Would love to see her sail again but think she would be better served as a restaurant/hotel.

I also see the ship whenever we travel to the city and during one of the sailing events had the chance to see her up close and personal from the water, we were able to boat right beside her. It is so sad to see her rusting away as the years pass. I agree that the best use would be as a hotel--maybe a very nice precruise hotel for Crystal guests on special cruises (like world cruises)

My father supplied the deck chairs for the ship and he received a framed print of the ship which I no longer have unfortunately.

It is very exciting and I hope it comes to Fruition.

Maybe this will give another cruise line incentive to do the same with the QE2.

Keith

 

One reason that NCL's attempt to renovate and reactivate the US failed was that the Conservancy, which ended up getting the ship from NCL for a song because of it, sued NCL in a class action suit to keep NCL from removing the power plant since they claim that the power plant is the unique feature that makes the ship historic. If they have given up on this point, I would suspect they will require the ship to remain under US flag.

 

No one cares for speed in a cruise ship anymore. Witness the Cunard ships that have slowed their transatlantic crossings from 5 days to 6 days. And they are still sailing full. Going back to the 5 day crossing would just about double the fuel consumed.

 

I believe that i read in one of the articles that the entire propulsion system would be replaced. They can't possibly operate with a steam driven system today. The cost and questionable maintenance capabilities would doom it to failure. So perhaps the Conversancy gave up. After all, they gave up the idea of even selling it last fall. It was slated to be sold for scrap if no other offers were made by October 31, 2015.

You are right about the lack of interest in speed, but I doubt if Crystal intends to set any such records. Cunard's TA crossings, BTW, have increased to 7 ad 8 days on a Southampton - NYC run. We are booked on the May 10th crossing on the QM2. We are really looking forward to this new experience. The only other Cunard ship I have been on was the Franconia, in the 60's. I bear no nostalgia for that bucket.

This is about the 4th thread on different forums about the US.

 

One reason that NCL's attempt to renovate and reactivate the US failed was that the Conservancy, which ended up getting the ship from NCL for a song because of it, sued NCL in a class action suit to keep NCL from removing the power plant since they claim that the power plant is the unique feature that makes the ship historic. If they have given up on this point, I would suspect they will require the ship to remain under US flag.

 

To me, the only reason to revitalize this ship is to use its US construction as a way around the PVSA. For the money they are talking about for renovating, they could build a larger ship (hence more revenue) to pay back the capital cost faster.

 

There is really nothing left inside the ship other than the machinery. All of the interiors were removed decades ago in Turkey, when they removed the asbestos and other hazardous materials in a country with less than stellar environmental rules.

 

While the use of aluminum in the superstructure of the US was unique at the time, most cruise ships now routinely use aluminum on the upper decks to reduce the center of gravity.

 

Even with a ship that meets many of today's requirements for modern cruise ships, NCL with the POA must charge over twice as much as foreign flag competitors to break even. With fairly large ship and small passenger capacity, fares will be sky high for this.

 

And the renovation would not need to be done in the US to keep its PVSA certificate, but any repairs made overseas to a US flag vessel are subject to 50% customs duty on the total bill. This is still usually cheaper than doing the repairs in the US. US shipyards also do not have the experience in installing cruise ship interiors that northern European or Italian yards do.

 

No one cares for speed in a cruise ship anymore. Witness the Cunard ships that have slowed their transatlantic crossings from 5 days to 6 days. And they are still sailing full. Going back to the 5 day crossing would just about double the fuel consumed.

 

Crystal may be able to make this into an ultra-high end ship, but other than that, my feeling is that it would be best to Queen Mary it in NY harbor.

Chief, you are right on the money. It will be very interesting to see how this shakes out. As far as some historical value, there won't be any. She is stripped as you can get and with the steam plant replaced with diesel electric, she will be what ever the interior designers dream up.:eek: One thing for sure, with 800 passengers on a 990 ft ship, she will be roomy.:D

Chief, you are right on the money. It will be very interesting to see how this shakes out. As far as some historical value, there won't be any. She is stripped as you can get and with the steam plant replaced with diesel electric, she will be what ever the interior designers dream up.:eek: One thing for sure, with 800 passengers on a 990 ft ship, she will be roomy.:D

Yes, I found the fact that Crystal is proposing to turn a 2,000 passenger vessel into an 800 one, rather strange. The company is obviously directing their marketing toward a segment of the population outside my own sphere.

Yes, I found the fact that Crystal is proposing to turn a 2,000 passenger vessel into an 800 one, rather strange. The company is obviously directing their marketing toward a segment of the population outside my own sphere.

Of course part of the problem with the passenger capacity of the United States is that it was designed as a mode of transportation not a cruise ship. It was all about getting people basically across the Atlantic as quickly as possible. Without adding substantial superstructure there's really no way they can keep the United States at its late 40's/early 50's designed capacity of 1,928 passengers and meet the space expectations of today's cruiser. I clearly remember our porthole cabin on the very similar SS America and it probably wasn't even 100SF.