DCL with autism

Lines for the Aqua Duck are also very short in the evening.

On a port day the line should be really really small!

 

Here's a video with Donald on the AquaDuck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JBmea_Lg58

 

Also if loud noises are a challenge for your son, have you watched welcome aboard videos?

If not here's one for you to view with the CM's announcing you and clapping:

 

Hope you have a great cruise!

 

ex techie

Thanks!

If you think that the announcement and clapping will bother your son' date=' you can easily bypass this--just tell the CM that you don't want it for that reason. They will just hand you off to a CM who will give you the short welcome aboard talk (telling you where to find lunch, etc. as if you don't already know it).

 

All lines on the ship should be far shorter on port days. And the programming is open then but can be much quieter--that depends on how many parents parked their children and left the ship.[/quote']

 

We have been to San Juan several times so this will be the perfect place to enjoy the ship. We booked a snorkeling excursion in St. Thomas, now that he can tolerate sea water we are very excited for it. He loved it in Belize!

I just wanted to share that we just got our cabin assignment and we are on deck 5 aft, which looks like a great location as it is close to the oceaneers club. Now I am really hoping he will like it!

I homeschool him, and even though we do a lot of outside activities I'm still looking forward to him being able to interact with new kids, and really hope it goes well. :D

What has your experience been? We have stuck with Carnival for quite a while because they were willing to do more than I would expect. My first experience calling special needs was just ok.

There is a special needs agency that works with the cruiseline if your interested. I can't advertise them here but if you email me I can give you their website. Email: nedra.smith16@gmail.com

They have group cruises with trained staff and respite care and group activities. They offer many specialized services for special needs cruising with it without the group cruises they offer. They can give reviews for special need friendly shore excursions, help with independent cruising if you choose to go on your own. If traveling with the group they eat at the same time and have reserved seating for the shows.

Royal Cartibean is an Autism friendly cruiseline also. They accommodate Autistic and special needs well. Anyway if you would like their website address email me.

There is a special needs agency that works with the cruiseline if your interested. I can't advertise them here but if you email me I can give you their website. Email: nedra.smith16@gmail.com

 

They have group cruises with trained staff and respite care and group activities. They offer many specialized services for special needs cruising with it without the group cruises they offer. They can give reviews for special need friendly shore excursions, help with independent cruising if you choose to go on your own. If traveling with the group they eat at the same time and have reserved seating for the shows.

 

.

If this is the agency I'm thinking of, I would advise caution.

There is a special needs agency that works with the cruiseline if your interested. I can't advertise them here but if you email me I can give you their website. Email: nedra.smith16@gmail.com

 

They have group cruises with trained staff and respite care and group activities. They offer many specialized services for special needs cruising with it without the group cruises they offer. They can give reviews for special need friendly shore excursions, help with independent cruising if you choose to go on your own. If traveling with the group they eat at the same time and have reserved seating for the shows.

 

Royal Cartibean is an Autism friendly cruiseline also. They accommodate Autistic and special needs well. Anyway if you would like their website address email me.

Thank you but no, we are confident cruisers, just asking so many questions because this is our first time on a Disney cruise. After the way Disney changed their attitude toward the disabled at the parks I just wanted to see how similar or different it might be from what we are accustomed to with other cruise lines.

Thank you but no, we are confident cruisers, just asking so many questions because this is our first time on a Disney cruise. After the way Disney changed their attitude toward the disabled at the parks I just wanted to see how similar or different it might be from what we are accustomed to with other cruise lines.

No problem! Not advocating them just was giving an option as information. I hope you have a pleasant experience with the Disney ships. Maybe their attitude will be different than the parks. Anyway have a great cruise!

No problem! Not advocating them just was giving an option as information. I hope you have a pleasant experience with the Disney ships. Maybe their attitude will be different than the parks. Anyway have a great cruise!

Thank You :)

Just for reference, and risking being given penalty points to being banned, due to the seriousness of what has happened in the past I will quote, and if I can link to a thread that 2 Moderator's of a well established and reputable board made. DISboards

Now IMO if that post was not accurate or true, the organization and travel agency would have been all over the DISboards ass, and had them remove it.

From Oct 2011 - DISboards

Post from a Guest:

We just got home from the Disney Wonder on the Mexican Riviera and this board really, really helped me to plan for the trip. I found out about the meetups and fish extenders just before we left so missed the chance to do that but a door just down from us had them.

 

We were so excited and Disney really does it up!!! The thing is...we had a very frightening situation involving a 23 year old man stalking my 15 year old daughter and eventually, our entire family and he found her (and other teens that stopped going) in Vibe.

 

He tracked her to our cabin, banged on the door after midnight looking for her, stalked her in the pool, Quarter Masters video place, gift shop and approached my husband aggressively on our way to dinner. He followed us...it was so frightening and we were told by security that it is Disney protocol to give access to adults with mental disabilities to children's areas (e.g. Vibe, Oceaneer's Lab) with request from their family. No doctor's note or validation.

 

Needless to say the last half of the trip was ruined as we sequestered ourselves and cancelled the spa and other events.

 

We loved the family we met at dinner and my son adored the lab. We were going to book another cruise and get involved with all the super fun and wonderful Dis'ers here...but now we are pretty rattled and terrified.

 

What can we do? Has anyone else had this issue? Who from Disney did you call? We filed a complaint and spoke to head of security on board 3 times. Nothing really happened as they weren't sure what to do either and the stalker as it turns out, is related to the guy running the special group.

 

Now I wonder what that man will do or what info he might be able to get from us from the cruise. Do you know if access to baggage tags can be had by non crew members?

 

I'm just so freaked out.

Yes we didn't realize he was 23 until he confronted my husband on the way to Animator's Palate. Until then we just thought he was someone's young son. That's when the head of security got involved and told my husband about their policy. The man had even ordered from the bar!!!!

 

I think he was let in with a "staff" shirt, but then later on his own...the staff seemed very confused and hadn't considered this happening. He was supposed to be escorted by another person from autismontheseas thereafter, but we ran smack into him walking out of our stateroom the next morning...alone. And my daughter was alone in our room...where I'm sure he was headed.

 

I'm sure this policy was designed for minors who just need a lower activity level like perhaps an 11 year old child with mental capacity more suited for Oceaneer's Club.

 

My big fear is that another young girl will be stalked or worse and personally that no cruise is now safe as they use all lines and we really wanted to use Disney where kids can have so much fun.

 

I feel pretty hopeless and I don't know where else to go as this was our first cruise. It is looking more and more like it might have to be our last which is terrible

First Moderators response"

This was absolutely a failing on the part of DCL's security. The way this situation was handled tells me that they don't have a clear policy in place for their staff to follow when an incident like this occurs. It sounds like the security staff was very unsure of what to do, and afraid of offending the autism group.

 

In the end, it doesn't matter what the young man was capable of understanding, or doing, or what the situation with his father was. It's the cruise line's responsibility to provide a safe, comfortable environment for ALL of their passengers, and they failed miserably here.

 

I'm certain that there are standards of passenger behavior listed in some paperwork that we all sign when we book a cruise with Disney. I'm also certain that an adult male passenger repeatedly, aggressively pushing their attentions on an underage female is a crystal-clear violation of their standards of acceptable passenger behavior.

 

There should have been an agreement signed with the group that stated that all passengers are required to follow the cruise line's standards of behavior, and that those passengers who are unable to do so on their own must be escorted at all times. Repeated violations will result in the passenger being required to remain in their cabin for the duration of the cruise.

 

There. Simple, clear policy, easy for security to follow, and something for them to point to when the head of the group argues that his son is being unfairly treated. If the group is unable to keep the young man from harassing, stalking, following, other passengers, they need to understand that he will be spending the cruise in his cabin.

A second different Moderators response:

Per the previous posts, the young man in question is the son of the owner/founder of the travel agency. They must bring Disney lots of business if DCL had to walk a tightrope regarding the OP's complaint, as it sounds like he should have been supervised and wasn't. DCL could ask his parents to supervise him, but what recourse is there if the parents refuse? He's a legal adult. Following the girl around the ship, hanging around her stateroom and banging on the door late at night does sound like activities that should be concerning.

For your reference ONLY. I am only reposting what is published online, has been and still is available as on 04/21/2015.

THIS IS NOT A THREAD OR POSTS FROM CRUISE CRITIC, BUT A LINK AND FROM ANOTHER BOARD. disboards.com

The thread with many more replies and responses is located here:

http://www.disboards.com/threads/security-concern.2818404/

Mod's of CC. Please note I am only posting this link because of the severity of what happened allegedly. So please delete it if it causes any problems to CC.

ex techie

This incident is "supposedly" what caused the policies on DCL of "secure" spaces where no adult other than DCL CMs will be in contact with children--prior to this, parents were permitted in the Club and Lab, and a couple of times I went up to the Stack to find my daughter (the staff gets busy, doesn't always answer phone, etc.) Now, parents are allowed into the kid spaces only during open house hours, and during these hours the "secure programming" kids are removed. Also, the staff flexibility in allowing "adults" (meaning people still in high school) to participate in teen programming was eliminated. The rule is now basically "18 and out." And the "college club" became the 18-21 club.

Yes, all of this came down from the legal department at DCL. It provided a way to eliminate ALL adults from contact with minors entrusted to DCL's care without discriminating against any group advertising that they place their "staff" in the kid programming to assist the ship's staff. And eliminated any confusion about challenged "adults" participating in programming designed for minors, whether they are there as a special case or a staff member--they can no longer be there in any capacity.

Unfortunately bad parenting happens. It never mentions if the group or parents were ever informed of what this young man was doing.

Obviously good parents would know their child well enough to know he had the potential to act this way and to act accordingly.

Disney's changes seem reasonable, I wouldn't want to send my child to a club where adult passengers had access to him, especially when he was younger and less able to communicate.

Actually, if you read the entire original thread, it does say that the young man's father was brought into the situation and that rather than apologizing and offering to be responsible for his son's monitoring for the rest of the cruise, the father basically stood up for the rights of those with special needs/situations. And no where does it address why the young man was permitted to wear a staff t-shirt and act like he was there to work if indeed he was a special needs cruiser.

While DCL did not say who had to chaperone the young man whenever he was out of his cabin, it is obvious from repeated sightings that he was out and about without supervision even after security was involved.

Previously, the adults present in kid programming were parents either spending a few minutes there initially to make sure their child was comfortable or seeing what they were doing when arriving to pick up a child (this in the 12 and under programming). In addition students over 18 but still in high school and the summer after high school were permitted to participate in the Stack/Vibe programming.

I agree, I wouldn't want someone interacting with my child. But there were times when I was glad to be allowed to remain for a few minutes when my child was young.

Just FYI, the rules regarding adults in the OC have relaxed just a little since this incident.

Unfortunately bad parenting happens. It never mentions if the group or parents were ever informed of what this young man was doing.

 

Obviously good parents would know their child well enough to know he had the potential to act this way and to act accordingly.

 

Disney's changes seem reasonable, I wouldn't want to send my child to a club where adult passengers had access to him, especially when he was younger and less able to communicate.

The first time they said they were calling autismontheseas staff. The head of that group actually sent the stalker (Dennis) to find us!!!! That's when he got right up chest to chest with my husband and told us he was 23 but had autism.

He was supposed to them be sequestered but was out again...we went to security again and the very next day found him just doors from our own by our elevator. And we had just left our daughter alone!!

 

I cancelled our appt and we had a big meeting with security who said they would once again talk to the group, but also said the head of the group complained that I called Dennis a "stalker".

 

Turns out it is his father and so I question the bias. I don't know if this man can control himself, so really the full blame goes to autismontheseas and the coordinator (his father) who put a 23 year old with lack of control with teenagers and then refused to intervene.

from a blogspot dated 2012:

Jamie Grover is from Orlando, Florida and serves as the Group Director for Autism on the Seas. He also is a writer and a certified assistance dog trainer. Jamie has an adopted son named Dennis who has autism. Jamie Grover is an Autism Light for the diverse ways he has contributed to the autism community. His life is a life full with autism, whether he is facilitating recreation for hero autism families or hanging out with his adopted son between cruises.

 

Most autism fathers would say they didn't choose autism, but autism chose them. However, for Jamie Grover, it was a personal choice to make the lifetime commitment to be an autism father. His son, Dennis Rudd-Grover, was a teenager who had autism at the time that Jamie adopted him as his son. The two's relationship started in a Best Buddies program in Dennis' middle school and it became evident that the two were meant to be a family. Dennis also works on staff with Autism on the Seas and has the opportunity to travel with his father on cruises.

 

Autism on the Seas: Jamie Grover has served as the Group Director of Autism on the Seas since 2006. Autism on the Seas conducts 15-20 cruises per year and cruises will have programs geared specifically to meet needs of people with autism and virtually any congnitive, intellectual, or developmental impairment--of any age. Jamie Grover is responsible for the autism program on the cruise. He arranges for staff who will work with those with autism during Autism on the Seas cruises. Staff may include special education teachers, BCBA's, occupational therapists, or students, and the ratio of staff to children is kept at 1:3 or 1:4. Note also that the cruise can accommodate individuals with autism of any age and they have had adults with autism experience this unique vacation as well.

http://autism-light.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/jamie-grover.html

ex techie

Please note I have the utmost admiration and respect for both the parents and those that have autism. I have friends with autistic children and appreciate the challenges they have day to day to ensure their child is happy and safe.

But when you as an organization employ someone with autism on your staff you assume an additional responsibility over that of someone who is not.

It becomes your duty as an employer to address any behavioural differences with that person.

In this case it does not seem that it happened, and blame was wrongly apportioned by the organization, not Disney, to the family of the teen affected by being unwillingly followed.

At 23 the man is an adult. As to whether the organization should bring him on a cruise as an employee when he has already caused distress, and to represent themselves seems misguided to me.

As a family with a party member, absolutely. As an employee, I think they have shown negligence to others around them if he has behaved in the way published.

ex techie

What I find sad is that they have taken what would have been a really great way for families to experience a vacation, and with their poor choices ruined their reputation with internet readers and the cruise line. It didn't have to end this way.

What I find sad is that they have taken what would have been a really great way for families to experience a vacation, and with their poor choices ruined their reputation with internet readers and the cruise line. It didn't have to end this way.

Agreed

ex techie

We are back after a wonderful cruise! So now I have another autism question. My son loved the oceaneer club/lab. We went to Edge once and it was painfully awkward. He turned 12 on the first day of our cruise, so....if we want to go again do we need to go before he turns 13, or would they allow him to step down into the lower age club due to his social ability level?

Of course we can hope that another year of development might mean he will be ready for Edge, but curious if anyone knows.

Thanks!

Step downs are not longer allowed. That is the purpose of the "overlap" ages--the 11 and 12s can go to the Lab or the Edge.

Sorry....but the actions of one lead to the elimination of step down in age and the institution of the current policy.

Step downs are not longer allowed. That is the purpose of the "overlap" ages--the 11 and 12s can go to the Lab or the Edge.

 

Sorry....but the actions of one lead to the elimination of step down in age and the institution of the current policy.

Thanks. As much as he loved Oceaneers, our limited time visiting the Edge left a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe in another year things will be different for him.

We have a daughter with high functioning autism who is now 8. We are big cruisers and have taken 2 Disney Cruises and have another booked and sailed on multiple NCL and Royal Caribbean cruises. While we cruise Disney, mainly because my daughter still loves the princess and my husband is a Disney nut, they are by far the least autism friendly cruise line that we have sailed. On other cruise lines we were able to have special accommodations for the muster drill and the kids clubs but Disney did not budge on either. The staff was even trained better on other lines. Not to say we did not love our Disney cruises, we did, but it was just different and had to prepare differently. I would never tell anyone that Disney was "autism friendly".

And just a side note to the alluded Autism Travel Group. They are a wonderful organization and are regulars on every cruise line, including Disney still. They even have supervised trips to Disney World. While what happened to that poor girl in the story is unforgivable, there are two sides to every story and since no one on these threads have first had knowledge of what really happened, I would suggest refraining from bashing them every time an autism post is brought up. They help a numerous amount of families that would not be able to take a vacation and since they are still welcomed on Disney Cruises and Disney World obviously we do not know the whole story.

We have a daughter with high functioning autism who is now 8. We are big cruisers and have taken 2 Disney Cruises and have another booked and sailed on multiple NCL and Royal Caribbean cruises. While we cruise Disney, mainly because my daughter still loves the princess and my husband is a Disney nut, they are by far the least autism friendly cruise line that we have sailed. On other cruise lines we were able to have special accommodations for the muster drill and the kids clubs but Disney did not budge on either. The staff was even trained better on other lines. Not to say we did not love our Disney cruises, we did, but it was just different and had to prepare differently. I would never tell anyone that Disney was "autism friendly".

 

I agree, Carnival has been much more accomodating to us. They have allowed one parent to go to muster, let us bring frozen chicken nuggets when that was all he would eat and served them for dinner to him, they let him go down in age group at camp. We once had a private waiting area to get on the ship, and we have had priority escort off the ship to avoid lines. Now that he is older we can manage, but these were the things that helped solidified our love for cruising.

My son loved DCL and when asked will say he would like to go back. It would not have worked when he was younger and had more sensory issues, and I wouldn't recommend it to everyone.

I think we picked the perfect time to go, right at the tail end of qualifying for the Oceaneers Club.

And just a side note to the alluded Autism Travel Group. They are a wonderful organization and are regulars on every cruise line, including Disney still. They even have supervised trips to Disney World. While what happened to that poor girl in the story is unforgivable, there are two sides to every story and since no one on these threads have first had knowledge of what really happened, I would suggest refraining from bashing them every time an autism post is brought up. They help a numerous amount of families that would not be able to take a vacation and since they are still welcomed on Disney Cruises and Disney World obviously we do not know the whole story.

Who are the Autism Travel Group?

Google suggests it http://www.autismadventuretravel.com

Not http://www.autismontheseas.com ?

ex techie

 

And just a side note to the alluded Autism Travel Group. They are a wonderful organization and are regulars on every cruise line, including Disney still.

I have never heard of this group. Unless the group involved in the incident goes my multiple names, this group has nothing to do with the incident reported.

I have never heard of this group. Unless the group involved in the incident goes my multiple names' date=' this group has nothing to do with the incident reported.[/quote']

 

I for one hope they are not.

But it would not surprise me if they were associated by the tone of KarenR122's post.

 

And there is that post that disappeared on the DIS from the father when he signed up for one post, claiming no wrong doing from his son as he has a disability and should't be responsible for his action or any wrong doing and posting about it was harassment against the group.

 

ex techie

Did your son like DCLs chicken nuggets?