QE2 - I really need to know...

I can still remember when Alan Wicker sailed on the QE2 for an episode of Wicker's World (anyone else remember that one - great, great show) - I was only a youngster but even then I was enthralled with his stories of shipboard life, I even remember that the cost of a master fantail suite for the world cruise was over 100,000 pounds for about 6 months of ultra-premier first class cruising - an absolutely unbelievable fortune back in the late 1970s.

So here I am, 2015 and as giddy as a schoolgirl at the prospect of sailing on QM2 Transatlantic in November. I missed out on flying on Concorde, and there at the back of my mind was the thought that I missed out on the QE2 as well, even though I could have sailed on her - my cruise life having started in 2004. So I'm overjoyed that I not only get to sail with Cunard, a British institution, before perhaps something terrible happens to them in the cut and thrust of the corporate world, but that I also get to sail on the QE2's successor.

So here I am doing all my research and I am seeing so many comments about how the QM2 is great, but don't even try and compare her to the QE2.

So for those who were there, those who sailed on the QE2 not in 2008 but back in her heyday - just what was she like, specifically what was a cruise day on her like - the food, the service, the staterooms, the entertainment - I mean in 1975 not 2005 and preferably first class.

Exactly what did I miss, please :)

Well, I cannot tell you about the 70’s, as my Cunard experience began in the mid 90’s, but i understand that by then, while QE2 had already been upgraded and modified, it retained much of its original personality and level of service, as indeed it probably did until Cunard was acquired by Carnival.

We had a 3-weeks Caribbean cruise in the Queens Grill, and that was truly fabulous. We loved the vast stateroom, one of the original wood-panelled ones, with a full size dressing room and a large bathroom. But there was no balcony. Only the few suites on the Sun Deck had those. We enjoyed the culinary delights of the Queen’s Grill, although I think I preferred the cosy elegance of the much smaller and more intimate original Princess Grill. One could and was encouraged to order off-menu. The Maitre d’ had arranged (without my asking for it) to have our entire serving staff (head-waiter and assistant, and sommelier) to be French-speaking, a very nice touch. The head chef was French too, and after I remarked that the food, although tasty, was lacking much seasoning, that was rectified thereafter systematically. There was always caviar (not for me) and excellent smoked salmon on a board, that your head waiter sliced for you, with all the side things (capers, onion etc.). At a neighbouring table was Paul Daniels, the famous illusionist. Interesting chap. The Queen’s Grill lounge was a pleasant place, never crowded. It was a long corridor (initially, it had been a bowling alley) that one has to walk through to get to the dining room.

So, how does it compare to today’s standards?

Condition of the ship was very good, but the layout was a bit problematic sometimes, due to the original design in the 60s. Many features were improved in a subsequent refit (I missed the original Yacht Club though, a most special and cosy bar, that got replaced by a much bigger and modern venue of the same name), but some things were just built in the ship and could not be modified. For example, not all lifts served all floors, as originally there were two separate classes.

Service was uniformly excellent, but not necessarily better than it is today. There were still many Western Europeans in the crew, unlike today.

The entertainment was pretty much like it is today, i.e. geared towards the nonagenarian Brits. Cunard’s idea of international entertainment was and is something primarily for the English, but that the Scots and the Welsh might enjoy too :)

Sailing-wise, one thing that has changed is that in teh old days, QE2 berthed in Manhattan, at the traditional Cunard pier, not like QM2 does now in Brooklyn. Not quite the same experience of coming to America.

Like most who experienced the QE2, I am nostalgic of that time, but then I was 20 years younger then. Life goes on. QE2 had become unsustainable because of stricter regulations of safety at sea, because of the impossibility to use modern logistics (the loading bays were too narrow for a forklift to drive into the ship. Every thing had to be manhandled. Cunard probably should have replaced her well before they actually did, but were prevented because of a lack of capital, that finally Carnival brought to the party.

All 3 of the contemporary Queens are, in many ways I believe, a vast improvement over the elderly QE2, although they are missing much of the charm and the most endearing personality of the Dear Old Lady. Queen Elizabeth in particular is the cruise ship that QE2 could never be. On transatlantic liner service, QM2 does a good job of keeping up the tradition, I think. I am really not fond of the location of the Grills, just aft of the buffet area, and surrounded by a high-traffic deck where joggers peek into your plate. On the QE2, Grill passengers were really in First Class territory, as indeed they are on the two ‘cruising’ Queens.

So, all in all, I would not put it like you missed on something. Yes, QE2 was a ship of legend, and I am very glad I could sail in her, but the modern Queens are great too, in a contemporary way. There is not more of a drop in standards in the Cunard fleet than there is everywhere in the hotel and travel industry. Frying business or first class in the 70’s and 80’s may have been a nicer experience than it is today, service-wise, but planes and seats have improved a lot. The same applies to Cunard, I think, and the possible drop in service is very slight, while the material condition of the 3 ships is way above what the elderly QE2 could provide.

I can still remember when Alan Wicker sailed on the QE2 for an episode of Wicker's World (anyone else remember that one - great, great show) - I was only a youngster but even then I was enthralled with his stories of shipboard life, I even remember that the cost of a master fantail suite for the world cruise was over 100,000 pounds for about 6 months of ultra-premier first class cruising - an absolutely unbelievable fortune back in the late 1970s.

Ill let others compare Cunard with then and now, but I do remember the Whitakers world series you spoke of, it was called, "QE2 Fast boat to China", and there are some parts of the series on UTUBE (4 parts i think) if you want to search it and relive it.

He also did a episode about all of the Widows living on board and the luxury they were retired into but I haven't yet found it.

He was one of the most interesting journalists to come out of the UK in decades and has only recently and sadly passed.

regards Roscoe

Because there was no balconies, people had to go up on deck to get some air, and this made the social atmosphere completely different on board. Many lifelong friendships (and marriages!) were made over the teak handrail of the boat deck. When people are on their own private balconies, you can't meet new people!

But the size is the biggest difference. Because QM2 is so much wider, there are many places that you cannot see out to sea at all, and when there is a window, the view is often obscured in one way or another. Public rooms on QE2 almost without exception had views out of floor to ceiling windows, as did the 4 long promenades on quarter and upper decks.

And of course you could hear the Atlantic rushing past the hull at 28 or more knots below your porthole...

In the 1970s that you asked about the crew would be almost entirely British.

And on QE2 in the 70s, you would genuinely have encountered celebrities... (and not ones Cunard had paid to be aboard to do a talk either!). or rather you might not have encountered them if they stayed up in Queens Grill.

They're just very different ships for different times. As is said above, much is better on the new ships (immediate examples that spring to mind are accessibility, sewage treatment and staff accomodation!)

I am certainly grateful for my sailings and crossings on QE2, she had quirks and character, but honestly I don't think id choose her over QM2 today. I don't miss hitting my head on the ceiling of the gym on a treadmill, or the strange changes in decor. The service was no different than today. I loved having a big wood paneled cabin with trunk room and portholes, but I'm just as happy in a grill cabin on QM2.

As for celebrities, I've run into just as many on QM2 like Uma Thurman who was my neighbor a few years back and some other hollywood royalty.

I agree with RAL72. The smaller cabins and few balconies meant more time in public spaces, mingling. That was "how it was done" when she started. Originally, she had no balcony cabins. Those QG staterooms were added in a refit.

Sorry to the OP, I can't tell you about First Class (assuming you mean QG), as I never got there. But it didn't matter. Early on, the Queens Room was for Grills pax only, but that was gone by the end of the 80s on TAs and sooner on cruises. But pretty soon the only distinction was dining room and the QG Lounge. Other than that, we were all at the same shows, afternoon tea, etc.

I know that she wouldn't be competitive in today's market for many reasons. (lack of balconies, tiny cabins, confusing layout on lower decks, no skating rink :eek:) And those of us who would sail on her again in a heartbeat aren't numerous enough to keep her going, even though we sometimes dream about it. I also know that I'll never find another experience like being on QE2. QM2 comes close, it's still Cunard. But QE2 had an indefinable SOMETHING, an atmosphere that made her special. I think a lot of it was the crew. It was a career job for many of the crew, not just officers, so you'd see familiar faces, which made it feel like home.

You missed the "original" QE2 which existed barely two years. By 1971, changes were underway. My personal favorite space, the Observation Lounge/Lookout Bar was one of the first to go. It also had a small forward open deck space that was great for viewing when entering ports. As many remember, later on, the only forward viewing space for passengers was the deck area under the Bridge which was roped off when winds were high. This great bar became kitchen area for the expanding passenger load when the Veranda Cabins were added to the former open Sports Deck. This also is when the forward superstructure was forever marred by the addition of the big steel cube which was part of the galley expansion. As others have noted, when QE2 entered service, her staff was all British. Not that current staff does not do a good job but the feel was very different from today. Imho, the main thing you missed was performance. QE2 regularly crossed in 5 days occasionally even shorter. I personally cannot abide the 15 or 16 knot plods across the Atlantic that is the current norm. Finally, QE2 did not, until later years, cut price to fill the ship. Many times I crossed with 1,000 or 1,200 passengers. Service on those voyages was very good. Dennis on the Sun Deck has been mentioned and he was well known by regular crossers. I miss her too but times change and ships with them. Have a great time on your upcoming voyage.

It doesn't matter if you sailed on QE's first or last voyage, what you missed is sailing on one of the last real liners. Not to take anything away from the QM2 but it is as much of a floating condo building as all the rest of the fleet and that of most all lines these days. There recently was a photo of the QV or QE next to the original Queen Mary in California. Now that was a true liner. That is what was missed.

I loved reading these posts - thank you all.

It seems like there is almost a generational thing here with each generation of liner, both old and new, offering something unique. Perhaps if I'm still around when QM2 retires and is replaced by something approximating the Isle of Wight with an engine, I'll be able to tell the youngsters about the majesty of the QM2 and how you could still do unthinkable things like smoking cigars.

I really do wish I had thought to cruise transatlantic on QE2 before 2008 though, sadly I did miss an opportunity there.

Thanks again for sharing - and I need to find a photo of one of those wood panelled staterooms, it has me intrigued.

Scroll down to the bottom half of this link - 1991 Fares

Yes, some of the fares in 1991 are higher than promotions in 2015! (And the consequences are under discussion in other threads.)

A few photos of the location on QE2 that were mentioned. Found on the web (with watermarks of their respective, and excellent, websites):

The Queen's Grill:

The Queen's Grill Lounge:

The Princess Grill:

Queen's Grill cabin (with wooden panels):

Blue Ribband - good grief, those prices, and that's from 14 years ago !

Normandie - great photos, really good.

Is it me or do we get so much more for so much less these days, maybe I'm missing something.

Here's something else you're missing from the QE2 in QG: Beluga caviar!

Here's something else you're missing from the QE2 in QG: Beluga caviar!

From the website of a prominent caviar seller: From weather to politics to conservation policy, many factors affect caviar availability. In 2004, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced the listing of beluga sturgeon as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. Beluga caviar is currently illegal in the U.S. through legitimate purveyors – there are retailers who continue selling through black market operations and the sale of frozen caviar.

I'm well aware of that. I was just commenting that on the QE2 it was there.

I'm fairly ambivalent about caviar - not that I don't like it, and if it's served I'll certainly take some, especially if a glass of champagne is on offer with it, but that other "naughty" delicacy, foie gras I would happily sell my soul for, and yes I feel guilty every time I eat it.

Of course now I'm looking at ordering some Beluga for delivery to my UK address to make up for the fact that I'm flying over and not cruising over in 4 weeks time.......

The first time I was on QE2 was back in the 1970's......my family had sailed Cunard, French Line, HAL & the Italian Line. What differentiated the lines was their nationalities ... their crew & food. What line one chose was purely a personal matter.

Travelling on these ships were more akin to staying in a Four Seasons Hotel today(as opposed to a Sheraton / Hilton Hotel which is todays comparison). The service was outstanding & the food very good(it was British) and one could order pretty much what they wanted. There was many options for entertainment & the ship very lively to the wee hours of the nite/morning. With fewer passengers it was more friendly & social if one wanted that.

As far as the design of the ship - the classes did mix & the biggest difference was the dining arrangements. One also knew we were on an oceanliner whether she was crossing the Atlantic Ocean or doing a cruise. Her hull design just cut through all types of waves...just beautifully. I remember a November crossing - 5 days NYC - S'hampton...the first days was like glass then the North Atlantic kicked in & we still made dinner & enjoyed ourselves even with the outdoor decks closed off.

And certainly the passengers were more sophisticated & well travelled. Not everyone may of been well off but they were celebrating a special occasion and celebrated I style. as noted above the fares were considerable for its time and yet we did a crossing w/ weekends in London..great fun. There was none of this "how can I bring a case of soda onboard" drink cards or can I wear shorts to dinner...people rose to their best. The crew was almost entirely British(except in the laundry where they were Chinese..where they did the best job on all our garments - I had my clothes done while onboard before packing them when going home). The decorum & humor was wonderful from the Brits. You would not believe the luggage that came aboard - including cars - in those days.

The last time I was on QE2 was for part of her world cruise on One Deck(First Class) in one of those cabins w/ all the wood....it was fabulous....each morning I asked the steward to bring me coffee & sweet rolls..which he did. at one point I could not find the spoon and rang for him...we laughed - I said it wasn't there & he said I swiped it. On the last morning he brought the coffee as usual..pointing out the spoon & then handed me a wrapped box...inside was a silver spoon - he said I could have that one so I would not be stealing silverware anymore. To this day each morning I use that spoon w/ my morning coffee!~

I hated to get off the QE2. That era is gone. I have sailed QM2 2x....once on a 14 day cruise - its a cruise ship that crosses the atlantic(QE2 was an Oceanliner that did cruises). Trafalgar House could no longer afford QE2 - Carnivore Corp has not only changed & modernized the line - its cheapened it. So there maybe a thousand items on the buffet but the cuts of meat, amount of service personnel & overall quality to the experience is cheapened so that its more of a floating mall than a luxury liner.

Saying that - you'll enjoy your crossing - its wonderful to cross the Atlantic ocean...walking the promenade deck after a captains night in black tie just before going to bed will give you a hint what QE2 was like (we were just closer to the water).

Well, I cannot tell you about the 70’s, as my Cunard experience began in the mid 90’s, but i understand that by then, while QE2 had already been upgraded and modified, it retained much of its original personality and level of service, as indeed it probably did until Cunard was acquired by Carnival.

 

We had a 3-weeks Caribbean cruise in the Queens Grill, and that was truly fabulous. We loved the vast stateroom, one of the original wood-panelled ones, with a full size dressing room and a large bathroom. But there was no balcony. Only the few suites on the Sun Deck had those. We enjoyed the culinary delights of the Queen’s Grill, although I think I preferred the cosy elegance of the much smaller and more intimate original Princess Grill. One could and was encouraged to order off-menu. The Maitre d’ had arranged (without my asking for it) to have our entire serving staff (head-waiter and assistant, and sommelier) to be French-speaking, a very nice touch. The head chef was French too, and after I remarked that the food, although tasty, was lacking much seasoning, that was rectified thereafter systematically. There was always caviar (not for me) and excellent smoked salmon on a board, that your head waiter sliced for you, with all the side things (capers, onion etc.). At a neighbouring table was Paul Daniels, the famous illusionist. Interesting chap. The Queen’s Grill lounge was a pleasant place, never crowded. It was a long corridor (initially, it had been a bowling alley) that one has to walk through to get to the dining room.

So, how does it compare to today’s standards?

Condition of the ship was very good, but the layout was a bit problematic sometimes, due to the original design in the 60s. Many features were improved in a subsequent refit (I missed the original Yacht Club though, a most special and cosy bar, that got replaced by a much bigger and modern venue of the same name), but some things were just built in the ship and could not be modified. For example, not all lifts served all floors, as originally there were two separate classes.

Service was uniformly excellent, but not necessarily better than it is today. There were still many Western Europeans in the crew, unlike today.

The entertainment was pretty much like it is today, i.e. geared towards the nonagenarian Brits. Cunard’s idea of international entertainment was and is something primarily for the English, but that the Scots and the Welsh might enjoy too :)

Sailing-wise, one thing that has changed is that in teh old days, QE2 berthed in Manhattan, at the traditional Cunard pier, not like QM2 does now in Brooklyn. Not quite the same experience of coming to America.

 

Like most who experienced the QE2, I am nostalgic of that time, but then I was 20 years younger then. Life goes on. QE2 had become unsustainable because of stricter regulations of safety at sea, because of the impossibility to use modern logistics (the loading bays were too narrow for a forklift to drive into the ship. Every thing had to be manhandled. Cunard probably should have replaced her well before they actually did, but were prevented because of a lack of capital, that finally Carnival brought to the party.

All 3 of the contemporary Queens are, in many ways I believe, a vast improvement over the elderly QE2, although they are missing much of the charm and the most endearing personality of the Dear Old Lady. Queen Elizabeth in particular is the cruise ship that QE2 could never be. On transatlantic liner service, QM2 does a good job of keeping up the tradition, I think. I am really not fond of the location of the Grills, just aft of the buffet area, and surrounded by a high-traffic deck where joggers peek into your plate. On the QE2, Grill passengers were really in First Class territory, as indeed they are on the two ‘cruising’ Queens.

So, all in all, I would not put it like you missed on something. Yes, QE2 was a ship of legend, and I am very glad I could sail in her, but the modern Queens are great too, in a contemporary way. There is not more of a drop in standards in the Cunard fleet than there is everywhere in the hotel and travel industry. Frying business or first class in the 70’s and 80’s may have been a nicer experience than it is today, service-wise, but planes and seats have improved a lot. The same applies to Cunard, I think, and the possible drop in service is very slight, while the material condition of the 3 ships is way above what the elderly QE2 could provide.

Thank you for the descriptive walk down memory lane. I so enjoyed reading your posts and seeing your photos. Thank you for sharing such lovely, lovely memories. DH and I were just becoming acquainted with Cunard, when the QE2 was in her last years of service. It never occurred we could have, but didn't, book one of her, it turned out, last voyages. Normandie_Nostalgic, your writing almost makes me wish for Grill accommodations. Certainly, I can see, sharing your nostalgia, the value of Grills on the QE2. Someone ought to preserve postings like yours. Imagine someone reading this in 2099 and knowing exactly "what it was like" to have been there….

...I hated to get off the QE2. That era is gone. I have sailed QM2 2x....once on a 14 day cruise - its a cruise ship that crosses the atlantic(QE2 was an Oceanliner that did cruises). Trafalgar House could no longer afford QE2 - Carnivore Corp has not only changed & modernized the line - its cheapened it. So there maybe a thousand items on the buffet but the cuts of meat, amount of service personnel & overall quality to the experience is cheapened so that its more of a floating mall than a luxury liner...

QE2's days were numbered. As the designer of her successor put it, it was right to give her a dignified retirement. (How did the SS Norway end her sailing days?)

I've often been at odds with many members here over fares because I believe that their constant hunt for bargains and downward pricing pressure is at the heart of the transatlantic experience being cheapened. Five day crossings, caviar, and a high service crew to passenger ratio can only be sustained if a sufficient number of passengers are willing to pay for it. And many of the posts here prove that few are willing and/or able to pay for service "like QE2". The people who regularly sailed QE2 didn't ask questions like, "When is the best time to book?"

A recent thread asked what would one change about QM2 if they could do so. One answer summed it up: "Lower fares so I can sail more often!" Some are completely disconnected from the laws of economics. Premium services and bargain prices do not coexist for very long.

Be careful what you wish for. Cunard is giving it to you. :(

"But what did the ANDREA DORIA and the ILE DE FRANCE have that still recommends them to me? A quiet elegance. Stylishness. Gracefulness and sleekness of line. Distinctiveness. And the ability to slice through the waves as a warm knife through butter. So unlike today’s boxy, gaudy, glitzy, slower and less storm-tolerant cruise ships. An evening after dinner on the ILE DE FRANCE, for example, meant sitting in the Grand Salon, watching a game of horses or just conversing. There were no loudspeaker announcements by a cruise director about the evening’s activities or those the

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next day! We shall not see the likes of the ANDREA DORIA and the ILE DE FRANCE again. Fewer and fewer of us remain to tell the tale of the golden age of ocean liner travel! But as with most everything else, we are told it is progress to have this or that change. The non-descript food from the buffet is progress? The piped-in music blasted throughout the ship? The growing informality? But for a moment imagine the dramatic entrance of the ILE DE FRANCE, the NORMANDIE or the QUEEN MARY into New York Harbor! This image should be convincing proof that what goes for a modern cruise ship is not even a pale imitation of what had gloriously gone before. Those days when formal meant formal every night, when there was a splendid midnight buffet every night, when Beluga caviar was served by the spoonful, when the fish was filleted at your table, when Crepes Suzette were flamed in your presence, and when each night there was a different gloriously artistic menu! No, we cannot go back. There is, after all, nothing like modern medicine. But if only we could bring back the ILE DE FRANCE even for one voyage to nowhere! Very truly yours, Dr. Stephen Schoeman "

If I ever come into just more money than I know what to do with, I plan on buying QE2, refurbishing to original specifications cosmetically, not engine wise, upgrading engines, etc. to modern standards and MOVING ABOARD! How's that for taking care of her?:D

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/cruise-news/11648386/Glasgow-calls-for-neglected-QE2-to-return-home.html

Calls for her to return "Home" to Glasgow

I feel so lucky that we managed a handful of cruises aboard QE2 in her last years. Just those years when we could afford to pay the fares.

If you have only sailed on any of the present Queens you have had a very different experience from that aboard QE2. It's not difficult to work out when you look at today's prices. Yes, cruising with Cunard is still a great experience, but I would willingly pay the equivalent modern fare to sail QE2 again with the service, food and the ambience of those days, gone for ever now.

David.