Berlitz Downgrading

Concern that O ships have been downgraded from 5 Star to 4.Star plus. The main reason food score. Unless this is put right no guarantee that Encore will be given 5 Stars next year.:confused

Much to the chagrin of many Seabourn fans, I think Douglas Ward, author of the Berlitz Guide, is right.

After our last cruise on Odyssey in spring, I hesitated to post a critical comment on these pages and chose to wait a couple of months. Let me say something about Seabourn from a European traveller's point of view.

After 440+ days on Seabourn ships, my wife and I feel that the quality delivered is so inconsistent that the high fares do not fully reflect the quality offered. - Even early last year we never expected to be impressed when we decided to try TUI's Mein Schiff ( now a fleet of 5 ships for up to 2,500 passengers each) - now rated 4-star plus by Berlitz, very close to Seabourn ). But I am sad to say that the TUI experience was overall very satisfactory and they were particularly good where Seabourn has been failing its customers for some time.

Good things first and very briefly: Food on Odyssey was excellent (thanks to Executive Chef Jes Paskins);and cabin service as well as food and drinks service was impeccable all the time.

The downsides were numerous; I will mention just a few:

1.The brochures for the ports of call only arrived in our cabin after we had left the first port of call; no apology or just an explanation was given.

On the last day before arrival, someone forgot to put the breakfast times for the day of disembarkation into the Herald (. When I noticed this shortly after 8 p.m., I mentioned it to one of the guest relations people in the square and suggested to let the passengers know quickly (i.e. before they might retire). They were barely interested. Only when I told the cruise director, there was a flurry of activity and a new edition of part of the Herald was printed and distributed at about 10 p.m. This was just one of several instances where no one in the Square was really interested in whether something was amiss.

The worst experience was the day when the printers were not working properly in the Squa´re because for several days the computers had not been serviced properly. Several passengers tried to print out certain material and would leave because of "no toner" "no paper" etc. One of the staff in the Square apparently made the printer work again; the printer printer printed all the stuff several guest had wanted to print ours before, and the staff member then let those prints lie - on purpose- for everyone to see. When I asked to rectify the situation immediately, otherwise I would ring the security officer, the "classical" answer was: "You can phone whoever you like".

Of course she was rebuked officially, but should that have happened on a Seabourn ship?

2. We tried in vain at the time of booking (10 months in advance) to get a portside V2 cabin (we were told the had not been made available for booking yet and our TA should inquire with the European booking office at regular intervals). Our excellent TA did as told, but a few weeks before the departure date she was told that all cabins were sold. - This was the first time we had -for a very special reasons- asked for a cabin on the portside; why did no one ever offer us a cabin?

3.. When we mentioned this problem after getting on board, the guest relations manger promised to inquire and to come back to us, because she apparently could not understand either why there should have been a problem. - But that was it: She never mentioned this topic again and tried to evde any conversation bordering on the question of cabins. We assume she got an unsatisfactory answer from Seattle and did not want to pass it on to us - but that is no decent way to deal with a problem.

4. Berlitz expressly complains about the quality of hors d'oeuvres, and we agree 100% with regard to the Observation lounge. Apparently the staff have to serve the tapas on fairly broad porcelain spoons. During the first days into the cruise, they would heap grated blue-vein cheese on the spoons and offer it. This is just ridiculous; no one in their right mind would try to choke by stuffing a spoonful of grated/crumbled blue-vein cheese into his or her mouth...

5. TUI cruises , in marked contrast to Seabourn, do offer lunch in decent surroundings with white tablecloths, even if only 50 out of 2,500 passengers attend. For almost double the price, Seabourn does not, at least not regularly.

So, while many things with Seabourn are still excellent, it makes you wonder why they are increasing prices while lacking quality in particular in the areas of guest services and bar food.

At the moment, no five star cruise line.

imo it all comes down to the big picture. There is no such thing as a perfect cruise or cruise line. If enough things are excellent on Seabourn, as they usually are, I am willing to overlook some negatives. And I try not to confuse the service from the sales offices or administration with that on board as most offices give poor service. And lastly, I never read ratings from Berlitz or anyone else. the only opinion that counts to me is my own.

@wripro: Sometimes it is very difficult not to take into account the service delivered by the European Sales Office. After a large number of Seabourn Cruises our TA inquired about the price of a75-day cruise (part of the 2013 World Cruise). We were given a quote and decided to book. When our TA tried to book, she was told -without being given any explanation- that the price was not € 26,900 p.P. but € 72,000 .

The sales person was wrong; but it took us some time (inlcuding a complaint sent to Seattle) to be given the correct quote.

After this letdown, how can I class this cruise company a five-star company?

I'm sure Seattle corporate is not pleased with the downgrade. I have no frame of reference in regards to other luxury lines as I have only sailed with Seabourn, but as a regular reader of cruise critic, it seems that ALL lines, from Crystal to Carnival have their cheerleaders and their naysayers that pine for "the good old days". As a huge fan of the triplets, I have yet to sail on the larger vessels, but am excited about my trip to the med next year on Encore. Will it be perfect? of course not, I'm not sure "perfection" exists, but I do expect a level of quality in food and service and so far, on Seabourn, I have received my money's worth. If that changes in the future I'm sure we will find another line that we feel in a good value.

The question is...if Seabourn is no longer 5 star, then who is?

Initially looking at the thread title I thought poor Hector was being dissed! Nice to know it is just another case of autocorrect run amok[emoji6]

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Initially looking at the thread title I thought poor Hector was being dissed! Nice to know it is just another case of autocorrect run amok[emoji6]

 

 

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Who will be downgraded next? Beethoven? Lennon and McCartney?

The 2016 Berlitz rankings did not seem to match the current impressions on Cruise Critic for many cruise lines -- and I noticed that the 2017 edition has downgraded many cruise lines from 1/2 to 1 or even 1 1/2 stars. I assume they have finally caught up with all the rounds of cutbacks that veteran cruisers complain about on many of the forums here, and have adjusted their top rank to reflect the best features of all the new ships. In answer to the question above about who is still 5-star: not many!

• Hapag-Lloyd Europa 2 [5+, along with its German-speaking sisters]

• SeaDream Yacht Club SeaDream I and II

• Sea Cloud Cruises Sea Cloud I and II

[and there may be some other non-English-first ships, but I skipped over those]

Many of the former 4+ ships have also been downgraded, so you might say that 4+ is the new 5 :)

This could possibly work in favour of the customer as I'm sure they will be fully focused on trying to regain any lost ground especially with the 2 new ships coming into service. We're on Encore next July and I'm not worried in the least about our time on board as I know it will be fabulous [emoji4][emoji4][emoji898].

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When all is said and done the only opinion that matters is ones own.

Don't forget those sailors that travel on Carnival,NCL,Royal Caribbean etc think that their experience is 5 star as it suits them and their purposes and they all have a wonderful time.

They would I'm sure not like many of the so called 5star lines

Different strokes for different folks and all that [emoji924]

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i was not able to get a copy of the Berlitz 2017 guide yet ( not available in Belgium ) but i think the norms by mr Douglas Ward to grant 5 stars did not change at all - however the cruise industry did change quite a lot .

last year the 2 Crystals were downgraded and i very much agreed on that decision - too many changes on Crystal after all inclusive especially in the F and B department

concerning Seabourn : and i do take distance about my disagreement concerning random upgrades :

- it is true a lot of regulars did complain about the daily closing of the MDR both for lunch and for breakfast on a daily base and it seems SB never did reply decently on that item but was talking around it - that the Colonnade was also great and much of that same kind ...

Mr Ward seems to be sensible for details as fresh orange juice , quality of fruit breads and cheeses .

- it is true the parties ( with prosecco what use to be champagne on the triplets ) on board are very weak and canapes are far from great during those parties ( sausages ) - the same during sailaway parties ( 2 kinds last time salmon mousse and brie cheese ) - on the other side i do understand a free serving of caviar is too much of the good item - remember the open tins on the triplets :)

- communication with SB is quite very unpleasant - especially on continental Europa as done by the same people of HAL ( example a refuse to say who is on board as Hotel Ddirector on a particular cruise ...) the only items for the responsable lady in Belgium was the fact if she did sell enough??

- i think the budgets for food on board are far too narrow for a 5 starred product - last cruise in France "shopping with the chef" - the chef found quite a lot of items ( like special cheeses ) very expensive .

On the other side Seabourn does prefer to pay huge royalties to a famous chef - instead of buying more luxurious items

The service on Seabourn is still good on board , and Seabourn does not charge extra for special restaurants so far ( as done by SS and Crystal for a second visit )

The standard on cruises in the luxury level went down - we cannot deny it

same as on airlines : when i did my very first business long distance flight in 1993 on a major european airline based in the UK ;) i was offered a lobster dish as appetiser and after the entree there was a trolley with cheese and premium fruits and another with full bottles of digestives + full breakfast service

now i do receive a plain salad , a miniature -only by request - as licor and as breakfast a sandwich with bacon and a "packet "of ketchup .

I am curious whar mr Ward did grant to the 3 SS still having 5 stars in 2016 guide .

@wripro: Sometimes it is very difficult not to take into account the service delivered by the European Sales Office. After a large number of Seabourn Cruises our TA inquired about the price of a75-day cruise (part of the 2013 World Cruise). We were given a quote and decided to book. When our TA tried to book, she was told -without being given any explanation- that the price was not € 26,900 p.P. but € 72,000 .

The sales person was wrong; but it took us some time (inlcuding a complaint sent to Seattle) to be given the correct quote.

After this letdown, how can I class this cruise company a five-star company?

I may be wrong but it seems to be that your issue is with your TA as much as Seabourn. A good TA will straighten things out before even coming to you with a price. I understand how you feel but to me I judge a cruise line by the shipboard experience. jmo.

I don't put much stock in the subjective views of a self-anointed industry expert such as Douglas Ward. Shaving off a half star in a rapidly changing industry is nothing surprising and, besides, I'll be the judge of what is 5 star or not.

We have just done first cruise on Odyssey. We are long time cruisers but over the last few years we have been on HAL and Oceania -two or three cruises a year.

We did like many of the aspects of Seabourn, but we felt the food let it down which was nowhere as good as Oceania. We were also slightly stunned at for the first time on 10 cruiselines we were not able to have breakfast in the dining room. Ours was a hot weather cruise, but I really do think the colonnade would not cope with the numbers if many people were not able to eat outside. We also found the main dining room noisy we felt due to there being no carpet to mop up sound.

As I say we did enjoy our cruise, but Seabourn is expensive and as we are very moderate drinkers we felt it is not value for money for us.

I personally do not follow what Berlitz says and has just been said on here prefer to try a company and decide for myself but on the other hand many people do follow the guide, and I think it is right that they do amend where necessary.

In fairness we did use the Berlitz guide before taking our very first cruise and we chose Seabourn based on the review. We loved our cruise and have since sailed on Oceania, Regent and came back to the Odyssey this year. The Berlitz guide has given us an idea of what to expect from each of the lines.

My beloved told me I had put Seabourn on a pedestal following the first cruise and I must say that there are elements of Regent and Oceania which are better than Seabourn and elements that are better on Seabourn. I would very happily sail on all 3 line but am not yet a cheerleader of any as have not sailed enough.

Any guide is an opinion and having read many of the different threads on CC you would sometimes wonder if people were sailing on the same ship they can be so different. So, great to give you a feel for a cruise line or individual ship but in the end, as has been said before, the only opinion of whether a cruise is great or not that matters on my cruises is mine (and I will let beloved have the odd opinion although not too many :D)

Who will be downgraded next? Beethoven? Lennon and McCartney?

You and Chairsin are so funny and help make reading CC fun!!! Thank you. :)

You and Chairsin are so funny and help make reading CC fun!!! Thank you. :)

I love Chairsin too. She? was the first to answer my newbie question many years ago and continues to provide great answers to posters to this date.

There is no way to thank posters on this forum, so I thought it was time to come out and publicly thank Chairsin for all the help over the years.

I love Chairsin too. She? was the first to answer my newbie question many years ago and continues to provide great answers to posters to this date.

 

There is no way to thank posters on this forum, so I thought it was time to come out and publicly thank Chairsin for all the help over the years.

If we are having a Chairsin Love In :D count me in.

She was so helpful with my first cruise on Seabourn in 2010 and continues to be helpful. I was lucky enough to meet her in 2014 and she was as nice in person as she is on the internet.

Mind you I suspect I might be in trouble for this praise as she is a gentle soul. :p

Julie

Aaaaw shucks! Picture me blushing. Thank you all for the nice compliments -- Seabourn CC'ers are the best. Hope we meet up on board sometime so I can "buy" you a drink (Julie yo can remind me when we see each other on our Alaska cruise next July).

But in all seriousness may I say that years ago when I was still relatively new to SB the Seabourners here on CC were a treasure trove of helpful information. What is particularly gratifying is that I now see many of you to whom I once doled out SB info prior to your first cruise now posting helpful info to for current newbies. It is all about paying it forward.

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I take more seriously the comments from our friends on Cruise Critic than any of the guides that are out there. Most of us seem to have the same likes and dislikes, whereas a paid critic is looking for faults and usually has a different motive.

A few years back I received a copy of a very flattering review of our business from a reputable guide in France (Petit Futé). In the same envelope was a form to fill out and send back with a check for 200€ to receive a plaque to place on my storefront. I didn't respond and our review was never published.

With 22 cruises on Seabourn since 2005 and I would agree that the service has done nothing but go downhill. Be it ever so slightly downhill but down for sure. I biggest problem is that I have yet to find anyone at Seabourn corporate who really cares what you think. That being said we leave for another Seabourn cruise in 15 days, so it ain't all that bad.

With 22 cruises on Seabourn since 2005 and I would agree that the service has done nothing but go downhill. Be it ever so slightly downhill but down for sure. I biggest problem is that I have yet to find anyone at Seabourn corporate who really cares what you think. That being said we leave for another Seabourn cruise in 15 days, so it ain't all that bad.

We hear you.We have been loyal to SB for 10 years after leaving SS for 4 years.We tried SS this past Sept we now remember why we left.

SB has definitely changed from years ago .Our opinion is it is still way ahead of SS.We had to have a fan in our room due to low air conditioning. The other side of the ship were freezing.The answer was the system is old and cannot keep up,Not my problem.We never saw an officer.Food is subjective but is was just ok . Our Cruise director was great.He was from SB .In spite of SB going down it will never be as bad as SS.We are booked on SB next year in spite of a big credit from SS .So much was wrong with SS that we will never return again.

The quality of service is definitely down at present, due to a number of experienced staff being taken away to start up Encore and far too many raw recruits being brought on board at the same time. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has been on board recently or is on board now.

However, this has probably happened since Berlitz did its new ratings.

I am on Sojourn now and here is my evaluation based on what's what since we embarked in Monte Carlo 4 days ago:

***** the standards - from service to food quality to ship's appointments and

overall operation - are as complete, refined and professional as ever *****

So, if someone would like to illustrate where something somewhere has slipped for whatever reason, I am all ears and will be happy to take such an assertion to the next level.

We had dinner last night with the newest Seabourn Hotel Director, Jason Gelineau, most recenty from Oceania. A great hire: charming and energetic and especially familiar with the Sojourn's upcoming Asian routes. A real treat!

Anyway, we will join Encore on 20 December and will have an even broader perspective about how well Seabourn is managing its growth.

Happy and healthy sailing!

On our recent Odyssey cruise in September we felt that the service was the best we have ever had. It was our seventh Seabourn cruise. All staff were polished, polite, friendly and were very much in evidence throughout the ship. Can't compare with SS as never sailed with them but we were on Azamara earlier this year. That was very good, but certainly not Seabourn!

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