Tendering warning

It's worth noting this. Tendering can be hazardous and in many cases should really be avoided altogether by those with poor mobility.

Inquest told of woman's fall leading to cruise death

Mary Atherton died during a cruise on the Cunard liner Queen Elizabeth

A retired teacher who died while on a cruise on the luxury Queen Elizabeth liner was crushed between a boat and a floating platform, an inquest has heard.

Mary Atherton, 75, of Penwortham, Lancashire, had been returning from a shore trip to Cambodia last April.

She was attempting to step from a transport vessel, known as a tender, onto a pontoon attached to the liner.

Preston Coroner's Court heard Ms Atherton had mobility problems.

Her son Michael told the court his mother had previously undergone hip and knee surgery.

He said she had been on cruises before and had made operator Cunard aware of her issues when she booked the cruise.

Passenger Andrew Allen saw Mrs Atherton fall into the water. He told the inquest he felt the tender and the pontoon should have been tied more closely together.

Mr Allen said he expected to see a gang plank or extra ropes.

The hearing continues.

Do you have a link to the source of this story? It would be interesting to follow.

I remember it being discussed on here at the time when it happened:

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2148253&page=42 (post 826 onward)

It was mentioned on Granada Reports the other day that the Inquest had opened.

Here's an article from the Telegraph about the accident

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/retired-teacher-determined-to-visit-cambodia-despite-osteoarthri/

Thanks for the link. Its a very sad story. I presume we will next see testimony from Cunard personnel which will be interesting to read.

Probably more coverage here.

http://www.lep.co.uk/your-lancashire/south-ribble/penwortham/grandmother-was-crushed-to-death-on-cruise-holiday-1-7847668

David.

Hi,

This reminds me of an unfortunate incident that I personally witnessed. In 2000, during a Caribbean cruise, the QE2 was tendering in St. Croix. When we were disembarking the tender at the pier, a woman (who was about three or four people in front of me) had her leg crushed between the tender and the pier. She was not being careless and this happened in an instant. The crew immediately called an ambulance. After witnessing this, I am always extremely careful when entering or exiting a tender.

Chuck

Do you have a link to the source of this story? It would be interesting to follow.

It is also in today's Daily Mail here in the UK. I was on board when it happened, so very sad. Very subdued ship that night.

I am not a fan of tendering and will avoid them unless it's somewhere I REALLY want to go, because, while I haven't seen a serious accident, I have seen a few near misses.

Quite apart from the fact I always get queasy in them!

More here.

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/court-hears-of-final-moments-of-gran-crushed-on-cruise-holiday-1-7848540

David.

More here.

 

http://www.lep.co.uk/news/court-hears-of-final-moments-of-gran-crushed-on-cruise-holiday-1-7848540

 

David.

Thanks David. Very interesting. Obviously I am interested as I was on board at the time. I didn't witness the lady falling in the water but did see her in the water and the recovery that went on.

Thanks David. Very interesting. Obviously I am interested as I was on board at the time. I didn't witness the lady falling in the water but did see her in the water and the recovery that went on.

I had just gotten off the tender and back on board about 5 minutes when the lady captain came on the public announcement system and requested passengers to "please do not take any more photos or videos of the incident on board the tender/pontoon." Seems to me she should have asked if anyone happened to have photographed or videoed the incident as it occurred.

Later on, a lot of talk about what happened, and especially how long it was before the body was brought back on board.

If I recall, between the tender and pontoon, there is a small plank with hand rails to allow you to step between the two, and there are two staff on either side of the hand rails to assist those, especially the women, transferring between the two. Hard to see how the woman could have fallen off the plank. But sorry to have heard about it.

I had just gotten off the tender and back on board about 5 minutes when the lady captain came on the public announcement system and requested passengers to "please do not take any more photos or videos of the incident on board the tender/pontoon." Seems to me she should have asked if anyone happened to have photographed or videoed the incident as it occurred.

 

Later on, a lot of talk about what happened, and especially how long it was before the body was brought back on board.

 

If I recall, between the tender and pontoon, there is a small plank with hand rails to allow you to step between the two, and there are two staff on either side of the hand rails to assist those, especially the women, transferring between the two. Hard to see how the woman could have fallen off the plank. But sorry to have heard about it.

if any one had photos or video of the incident I trust they would have made them available to the correct investigating authorities rather than place them on social media as so many do

If I recall, between the tender and pontoon, there is a small plank with hand rails to allow you to step between the two, and there are two staff on either side of the hand rails to assist those, especially the women, transferring between the two. Hard to see how the woman could have fallen off the plank. But sorry to have heard about it.

Cunard officer's evidence here.

http://www.lep.co.uk/your-lancashire/south-ribble/penwortham/cruise-policy-changed-after-death-of-holidaymaker-1-7853465

David.

I don't recall a plank but the two attendants generally do a good job of physically transferring people on and off the tender.

I don't recall a plank but the two attendants generally do a good job of physically transferring people on and off the tender.

I agree with you Underwatr - I also have high regard for the crew members who assist passengers in the transfer from the tender to the platform. But apparently, in this tragic instance, the person assisting was a fellow passenger.

"...Speaking about the exit from the tender, Mr Nicholls - who gave the okay to disembark - said he was aware of a passenger, later revealed to be Mrs Atherton, with “obvious mobility issues.”

He admitted that he allowed another passenger to perform a crewman’s job in helping to assist her on one side as she ascended steps on the boat.

He said: “He was supporting her on the left, something out crew would have done if he hadn’t been there. Now I’m very clear, it’s two of our crew members...”

copied from http://www.lep.co.uk/your-lancashire/south-ribble/penwortham/cruise-policy-changed-after-death-of-holidaymaker-1-7853465

That quoted report, previously mentioned by David, indicates there have been changes in procedure as a result of this tragic incident. -S.

A terrible thing to happen, I can understand why the atmosphere on board became rather sombre afterwards :(

Latest from the Inquest...

http://www.lep.co.uk/your-lancashire/south-ribble/penwortham/marine-expert-takes-to-stand-in-cruise-death-inquest-1-7855915

I feel deeply sorry for the family of this poor woman who was injured and died.

From a selfish perspective, I now worry that as someone with a mobility problem, I will find myself stuck aboard a Cunard ship whenever at a tender port as the reaction to this tragic incident becomes belt, braces and an unneccessary dose of health & safety legal generated precautions. It has already been a bit variable, I've had a note saying I couldn't disembark from QV in Gerainger fjord, but then had no problems (or restrictions) tendering on either QV or QE in the following 4 years or so.

It would be especially galling considering that Cunard of all the cruise operators must have close to the most intensive profile of older passengers, with attendant frailty and mobility issues. Please, please, don't let this become an over reaction to a desperately sad event.

.

I hadn't noticed this before - is it a new procedure?

"Mobility assessment

If you have reduced mobility, this must be registered at the time of booking or as soon as the need is known by completing a medical and mobility questionnaire. You will be invited to a tender briefing on board and given the opportunity to take part in a short mobility assessment. This must be completed independently, by this we mean on your own without any assistance. If an officer decides you are not safe to board, please respect their decision as this is for your own safety.

If you have impaired mobility, or use a mobility aid such as a stick, then we ask you to carefully consider your ability to embark the tender safely before you make your way down to the platform. Please take into consideration the use of steps, the gap and height difference between the platform and the tender, and the potential movement of the tender when making your decision.

If you use a wheelchair or mobility scooter, you or your travelling companion are responsible for assembling and disassembling your wheelchair/mobility scooter. The crew will endeavour to assist where practical and safe to do so and providing that no individual part weighs more than 20kg..."

more here: https://ask.cunard.com/help/fleet/tender

I think that's new.

I also noted the differences in required steps to board the tender between QM2 and QV/QE. It's been a few years since I was on QV so I didn't remember the steps up to climb into the tender.

I've done a lot of risk assessments in industry and Cunard will certainly have done one with the tendering operation. The object was always to highlight the potential risks and put in place procedures to eliminate them, not only for the safety of my guys doing the job, but for others on site as well. I am always impressed by the job the seamen do of getting very diverse passengers safely off and on the tenders, and when you are firmly held on each side, even a slip should be no problem.

I think we have all seen passengers boarding tenders who really are taking a risk. Sadly it may be that some will be refused passage on the tenders in the future. Cunard have no option, they have to ensure that this tragedy is not repeated.

David.

The advance declaration of a mobility issue is not new. The invitation to be assessed is certainly a new addition and I have to ask myself, who on board a ship is qualified and trained to assess mobiity issues? On land it's a specialist physiotherapist not some multi-purpose H&S person.

What next? What happens if someone has had rather too good a lunch on shore and looks a bit wobbly, will they breathalyse passengers before they get near the tender? What about people who have no mobility issues but are just a bit elderly and hesitant? And what happens, horror of horrors, when a 22 year old who looks like they could easily run a marathon takes a mis-step and ends up in the drink instead of on the platform, will it be the end of tender ports? I can already see cruise lines being forced into going for wheelchair accessible tenders like some of the HAL ships if this gets out of hand.

One final thought. I go on ship, have my assessment and am told (by someone utterly unqualified to judge) that I'm too risky to go on a tender. We hit an iceberg. Will I be left on the ship?

.

The advance declaration of a mobility issue is not new. The invitation to be assessed is certainly a new addition and I have to ask myself, who on board a ship is qualified and trained to assess mobiity issues? On land it's a specialist physiotherapist not some multi-purpose H&S person.

.

It seems to me that the point of the assessment is to absolve Cunard of responsibility for pax who use the tender service at his/her own risk and suffer the consequences of any misfortune. Cunard will provide some reasonable level of service and care in providing the tender service, but let's face it, the tender staff are not military-type professionals trained to a knife's edge in either service to the mobility challenged or in man/woman overboard rescue. They're just middle-aged Filipino guys who are maybe from the engineering or maintenance sections, with another Cunard employee in white uniform as the supervisor.

One can speculate all you want as to what might happen, but heaven help the cruise passengers if anything really big and bad happens.

Some additional points of concern: On several occasions, the sea was calm when we boarded the tender to go ashore. But the return trip was quite different. So passengers unfamiliar with how rough the sea can get might decide they will have no problem tendering - until they do have a problem.

I don't recall ever seeing young children on the tender, but then I haven't really been looking. Now I wonder how safe it is for young children (say under the age of 7) to use the tender. Wouldn't a young mother with a one year old baby in her arms boarding a tender also be a cause for concern? Will a Cunard employee be on hand to assess that type of situation on an individual basis?

No doubt it will a difficult decision for some passengers to book a cruise where tenders will be used if they can't use a tender or if they don't know if they will pass the mobility assessment on board. As an example, the QM2 Nov 12 day r/t Caribbean cruise has 5 port stops, 3 of which are listed as "possible tender port" and one as a "tender required".

I wonder if tender ports won't become a thing of the past in the interest of safety.

-S.

As Tangoll noted the assessment is probably more C-Y-A on the part of Cunard but if it makes just one passenger think twice it might be worth it.

Who hasn't been on a tender, looked around and worried about the ability of others to safely leave the boat, or God forbid there be an emergency. The crew have their safety duties but the passengers must also share responsibility, not only for themselves but for the others on the ship as well.