Distressing Development: Luxor

I totally agree

I totally agree

Plus 2 from here in NJ

I agree that Israel today is quite safe (and has been since the building of the wall and then the installation of Iron Dome) but Egypt is not. But I don't understand the "racist" accusation against the post in question. It is quite easy to minimize the risk of crime in the U.S. while still visiting all of the great tourist sites. In Egypt tourists are targets. Islamic extremists are not a "race"; they are an evil scourge committed to murdering innocents and demolishing antiquities.

Glad to hear you enjoyed your trip Wendy!

Setting aside all the emotion and politics in this discussion (do we really need them in this forum??)...

We were considering an O cruise this year to Dubai which was to include Israel/Luxor/Aqaba etc. We also decided YOLO and we we willing to take our chances. BUT we remembered how very risk averse Oceania is. During the early 'Arab Spring' days they cancelled our stop in Casablanca for some relatively minor demonstrations.

And my fear (apparently well founded) was that they might end up canceling any number of ports due to the current instability - so we decided not to go.

I am NOT debating Oceania's decision. It is their call. Merely observing that Oceania is risk averse in such situations.

Glad to hear you enjoyed your trip Wendy!

 

Setting aside all the emotion and politics in this discussion (do we really need them in this forum??)...

 

We were considering an O cruise this year to Dubai which was to include Israel/Luxor/Aqaba etc. We also decided YOLO and we we willing to take our chances. BUT we remembered how very risk averse Oceania is. During the early 'Arab Spring' days they cancelled our stop in Casablanca for some relatively minor demonstrations.

 

And my fear (apparently well founded) was that they might end up canceling any number of ports due to the current instability - so we decided not to go.

 

I am NOT debating Oceania's decision. It is their call. Merely observing that Oceania is risk averse in such situations.

I think that the real argument is that not just Oceania but most cruise lines are risk averse to the point of canceling cruise ports if there is any sign of trouble. When we took a land/Nile cruise at the end of 2012 when there was also unrest in Egypt, not only some land tourists but also many cruise lines cancelled Egypt ports on and off for months. We had no problems and were not scared but tour guides were fussy about where we went on our own and there were armed guards. Many would not want to travel under those circumstances. When there are real threats to an irreplaceable site like Luxor (even better than the pyramids!). however, maybe being risk averse is a better choice.

I question why so many cruisers are still signing up for cruises that include Israeli and Egyptian ports often especially for those ports. They know by now that most cruise lines are risk averse to the point of cancelling those ports at any sign of trouble sometimes after final payment or after the cruise has started.

This the official response from Oceania with respect to Luxor.

"Please advise guest that the safety of our guests, crew and vessels is always our number one priority and we will never place them in harm’s way. We are in contact with local authorities and are assessing the situation. We will make any changes if warranted with this in mind and will communicate to our guests and travel partners of these changes if and when they are made."

We enrolled in the US Dept. of State STEP program

(http://en.egypt.travel/region/index/nile-valley)

and we get announcements from the countries we are about to visit.

Attached to one we got today was a link http://en.egypt.travel/region/index/nile-valley that looked very helpful.

There are many American ex-pats living in Egypt. It doesn't look as bad as some posters are indicating. That is a shame. Hope to see you soon.

Bill

I was in Egypte in 1999 and the day after I visited Luxor, 12 german tourists got killed by a terrorist attack. A couple of years ago my neighbours got married and spent their honeymoon in Egypt. They visited the pyramids and Sphinx as well. On their way back a big truck hit their mini van and got killed. A lot of dreadful accidents took place the past years in Egypt. Even on the road it's dangerous.

The reason I write this is not to spread fear. I just want to warn people here (and almost 'beg' them) to change their plans.

I'm from Europe, I travelled I lot to the middle east and next December it's gonna be my 21st cruise. I'm not afraid to visit the more adventurous/dangerous places but my advice is to wait a couple of years to visit North Africa.

Last week a terrorist killed 39 tourists on a beach in Tunesia. It's just not safe for tourists at this moment. And yes I know that New York and other big cities can be dangerous too, but it's different. Keep in mind that Egypt and any other North African country is not safe these days. You are a tourist, you are a victim. Terrorists aim at tourists, they want everyones attention.

So give it a little bit more time before you plan visiting the pyramids. The people are nice, but definitely not at the tourist areas. Here is an example my best friend witnessed in front of one of the pyramid back in February 2014.

1. A vendor with camel asked an American couple if they were interested in a picture with the camel.

2. The wife agreed with the of 20 Egyptian pounds (2,50 USD) to sit on the camel and get a picture.

3. After the picture was taken, the wife got afraid of the heights and wanted to get off the camel. The vendor told the couple to pay him 200 Egyptian pounds (25 USD) to get her off the camel.

4. The couple started to scream to attract the police' attention. They did nothing to help. To make it even worse, they started to laugh.

5. After the man went to the ATM (loooooong and unsafe walk), he paid and got his wife back.

This is one example of how they treat tourists if you have bad luck. Ok, this has nothing to do with attacks, but again...please take my advice and do not go to these places right now.

We enrolled in the US Dept. of State STEP program

(http://en.egypt.travel/region/index/nile-valley)

and we get announcements from the countries we are about to visit.

Attached to one we got today was a link http://en.egypt.travel/region/index/nile-valley that looked very helpful.

There are many American ex-pats living in Egypt. It doesn't look as bad as some posters are indicating. That is a shame. Hope to see you soon.

Bill

Confused Bill, you say you are enrolled in a US State Dept. program yet the link you provided is an Egyptian Tourism website. Don't believe anyone is naive enough to believe what they read on a tourism website. From your opening sentence thought you were enrolled is something coming directly from the Government?????

Perhaps you provide the wrong links as they are identical??

Confused Bill, you say you are enrolled in a US State Dept. program yet the link you provided is an Egyptian Tourism website. Don't believe anyone is naive enough to believe what they read on a tourism website. From your opening sentence thought you were enrolled is something coming directly from the Government?????

 

Perhaps you provide the wrong links as they are identical??

OOps I screwed up. The other link is:

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/egypt/19452/pdfs/ACS_Newsletter_1_3En.pdf

and the STEP program is quoted here from the State Department website:

TRAVEL TO EGYPT

Before travelling to Egypt, you should enroll in STEP and visit the Department of State's international travel website to learn steps you can take for a safe and healthy trip.

We also encourage you to visit U.S. Embassy Cairo’s Message for U.S. Citizens webpage to read the latest travel advisory for Egypt.

We are committed to go unless Uniworld stops the cruise. Their trip insurance and commitment to safety and the fact that many Americans live and work in Egypt are enough for us to realize that the sky is not falling. We don't take unnecessary chances but we do travel safely.

Actually, the crime rate in Cairo is lower than in most large American cities.

I checked the State Department website for travel advisories and warnings regarding travel to Egypt. Currently there are none. The SD does advise Americans in Egypt not to get involved in street demonstrations, labor actions or any other protest actions because these can turn violent.. Otherwise, you should observe the normal cautions you would when travelling abroad. Searching a little deeper, I found that US government employees stationed in Cairo may travel freely in all areas except for the Sinai, where special permission is required. Two Americans were kidnapped in the Sinai in 2012 and eventually released to their families.

I also checked the statistics on tourist deaths in various countries over the past 10 years and found that you are much more likely to die or be kidnapped in places like Mexico, Thailand, Brazil, Dominican Republic, etc. than in Egypt. In addition, I specifically looked for Americans killed in Egypt in recent years and found the following:

1993 -- five people, including two Americans, shot to death by what was described as a "madman," who may or may not have had connections to militants

2005 -- three people, including one American, killed in an historic marketplace by a bomb detonated by a suicide motorcyclist bomber

2010 -- eight American killed in a fatal collision near Aswan between a tour bus and a truck. This appears to have been a traffic accident and not related to terrorism

That's the extent of what I could find. So I will leave it to you to decide how safe Egypt is for American tourists compared with other tourist destinations, both inside and outside the US. As for me, I am currently planning to travel to Egypt next year, something I and my spouse have wanted to do for many years. The level of actual risk (very small) shown by the statistics doesn't seem to me to justify the reputation for extreme danger portrayed in the media in recent years.

Actually, the crime rate in Cairo is lower than in most large American cities.

 

I checked the State Department website for travel advisories and warnings regarding travel to Egypt. Currently there are none. The SD does advise Americans in Egypt not to get involved in street demonstrations, labor actions or any other protest actions because these can turn violent.. Otherwise, you should observe the normal cautions you would when travelling abroad. Searching a little deeper, I found that US government employees stationed in Cairo may travel freely in all areas except for the Sinai, where special permission is required. Two Americans were kidnapped in the Sinai in 2012 and eventually released to their families.

 

I also checked the statistics on tourist deaths in various countries over the past 10 years and found that you are much more likely to die or be kidnapped in places like Mexico, Thailand, Brazil, Dominican Republic, etc. than in Egypt. In addition, I specifically looked for Americans killed in Egypt in recent years and found the following:

 

1993 -- five people, including two Americans, shot to death by what was described as a "madman," who may or may not have had connections to militants

 

2005 -- three people, including one American, killed in an historic marketplace by a bomb detonated by a suicide motorcyclist bomber

 

2010 -- eight American killed in a fatal collision near Aswan between a tour bus and a truck. This appears to have been a traffic accident and not related to terrorism

 

That's the extent of what I could find. So I will leave it to you to decide how safe Egypt is for American tourists compared with other tourist destinations, both inside and outside the US. As for me, I am currently planning to travel to Egypt next year, something I and my spouse have wanted to do for many years. The level of actual risk (very small) shown by the statistics doesn't seem to me to justify the reputation for extreme danger portrayed in the media in recent years.

+2 votes from us. Recent current statistics about NYC indicate that it is the safest large city in the country if not the world. So for all the bad mouthing of NYC due to its past history is currently out of date. We are due to cruise the Nile soon and are looking forward to it.

I know you are going on the Uniworld "Splendors of Egypt and the Nile" cruise in early October, Bill. This will be the first Nile cruise that Uniworld has done for several years. Those if us interested in cruising the Nile are looking forward to hearing how your trip goes.

I will post our experiences and hope that more people can then enjoy Egypt and its wonderful history by going there themselves. The hotels etc look very promising.

I think it's the right of US citizens to travel where they want, after all we are a free country. However when they chose to go to a place that is in political turmoil with all sort of warning from the state dept and then get in trouble they expect people to go to their rescue. It's not fair to the US service personal.

I think it's the right of US citizens to travel where they want, after all we are a free country. However when they chose to go to a place that is in political turmoil with all sort of warning from the state dept and then get in trouble they expect people to go to their rescue. It's not fair to the US service personal.

Please post where the State Department has posted a warning that states we should not go there. It only says avoid crowds and that is something I do in the States as well. If they say don't go there, we won't and the ship's company will cancel the cruise. Uniworld HQ are in California. I am sure they won't do something unsafe.

Please post where the State Department has posted a warning that states we should not go there. It only says avoid crowds and that is something I do in the States as well. If they say don't go there, we won't and the ship's company will cancel the cruise. Uniworld HQ are in California. I am sure they won't do something unsafe.

Canada has an advisory against travel in Egypt, except for certain parts. I've already registered that we'll be there, so our embassy can help out if there are problems. I too am trusting Uniworld here.

Please post where the State Department has posted a warning that states we should not go there. It only says avoid crowds and that is something I do in the States as well. If they say don't go there, we won't and the ship's company will cancel the cruise. Uniworld HQ are in California. I am sure they won't do something unsafe.

What does it matter where Uniworld HQ is based?? And how sure can you be that a company that like most others that is in the business of making money won't do something unsafe? Willing to bet your life on it??

Am truly amazed at the number of people who will put their lives in the hands of companies blindly trusting the companies to protect them and do nothing unsafe.

 

Am truly amazed at the number of people who will put their lives in the hands of companies blindly trusting the companies to protect them and do nothing unsafe.

I don't think there's much blind about it. We have our eyes wide open.

What does it matter where Uniworld HQ is based?? And how sure can you be that a company that like most others that is in the business of making money won't do something unsafe? Willing to bet your life on it??

 

Am truly amazed at the number of people who will put their lives in the hands of companies blindly trusting the companies to protect them and do nothing unsafe.

Opinions are like belly buttons everyone has one. Thanks for telling us yours.

What does it matter where Uniworld HQ is based?? And how sure can you be that a company that like most others that is in the business of making money won't do something unsafe? Willing to bet your life on it??

 

Am truly amazed at the number of people who will put their lives in the hands of companies blindly trusting the companies to protect them and do nothing unsafe.

Hey Dave! Have you ever traveled on an airliner? They're owned by companies, you know. I'll wager a whole lot more people have been killed that way than by terrorists in foreign countries.

I hesitate to jump into these acrimonious waters, with people who don't want to go to Egypt and people who do saying outrageous things about each other. However, in addition to the tour companies that are now dipping their toes back into the Nile waters, is is important to realise that in Egypt tourism went from between 5 - 10% of the gross domestic product of the country to almost zero. The government is desperate for the tourists to come back, and will almost certainly be working very very hard to protect those who do venture to go there.

Before you start up the flame-throwers on your keyboard, please note that I have written nothing about whether you should or should not go.

When last we were in Luxor it was during the Arab Spring - 2012, and in fact it was the same day the Navy Seals got Bin Ladin!! We felt safe and secure and pretty much alone in Luxor as many cruise ships sailed right passed. Azamara left Dubai the same day we did, and after Oman spent 8 days at sea bypassing Egypt, Jordan and Israel. And I thank Oceania very much for not avoiding these places and helped the people of this region with our tourist $$. Unless the State Department tells the tour companies they must cancel stops, it is up to the individuals sailing to determine if they want to go or not. There isn't a tour company or cruise line in the world that will take its clients into harm's way, be it terrorism or bad weather! No amount of rhetoric on this board is going to persuade or dissaude the cruisers from doing what they want to do. And really, the vitriol is really unnecessary. So for those of you who are going, have a fabulous time - Egypt is one of the more fascinating places on earth. Arlene;)

Please post where the State Department has posted a warning that states we should not go there. It only says avoid crowds and that is something I do in the States as well. If they say don't go there, we won't and the ship's company will cancel the cruise. Uniworld HQ are in California. I am sure they won't do something unsafe.

Sorry, I was not paying attention to this. The State Department site travel warning about Egypt says they do not allow personal to travel outside of Cairo. Good enough for them, good enough for me. If your going have a good time.

Sorry, I was not paying attention to this. The State Department site travel warning about Egypt says they do not allow personal to travel outside of Cairo. Good enough for them, good enough for me. If your going have a good time.

That is incorrect. There is currently no State Dept "warning" out about travel to Egypt. The US State Dept travel info on Egypt can be found at the following website:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/egypt.html

What it actually says is "The U.S. Embassy restricts its employees and their family members from traveling outside of Cairo without prior approval." Further on it states " Embassy personnel in Egypt are currently prohibited from traveling to the Sinai, except by air to Sharm El Sheikh."

So the prohibition on travel by their personal is specific to the Sinai, not to anywhere "outside of Cairo" as you state in your post. But there's no reason to take my word for it. Anyone can check it for themselves.