service charge

hi

i have booked a cruise on the strength of info given me by a "cruise consultant ". the info was that the considerable amount re service charges could be opted out of if one preferred.however now the booking has been made they are saying it has to be paid on settlement of onboard account and can only come as a refund made after i have returned home,i am not happy with that as i had been led to believe this deduction would be done on settlement of my onboard account. anybody advise me what to do.

cheers:)

The "service charge" are the tips for those who serve you. There is seldom a reason to "opt out" of paying your tips!

Once you're onboard, and see how hard everyone works to please you and make your vacation great, I doubt you'll want or need to have those tips removed.

I know tipping isn't common in the UK, but it IS common on cruises....when in Rome, and all that...

Which cruise line?

Pretty much all the main cruise lines have a daily service charge. They are the tips for all the staff eg waiters, room stewards, etc, they work seven days a week for months on end with no days off for a pittance, they rely on the tips to survive. If you truly have an issue with poor service you can go to guess services and adjust this charge. If you are with NCL they will give you a form to fill in where you state why you are removing the charge. You then submit the form and NCL reimburse you a few weeks later.

Just to let you know there is an automatic tip added to all drink purchases and treatment in the spa of 18% which can not be removed. These charges are standard on all of the large cruise lines.

If you leave the daily charge in place you do not have to give any additional cash tips.

Your travel agent should have explained this to you before booking. I would complain to your TA, for not correctly explaining the terms and conditions. If you truly don't want to pay any service charge you see if you can cancel and get your deposit back as they didn't explain fully.

I know tipping isn't common in the UK, but it IS common on cruises....when in Rome, and all that...

Actually tipping IS common in the UK and actually originated there in the 1700's in taverns. The word TIP is actually short for "to insure promptitude."

http://www.foodwoolf.com/2010/08/history-of-tipping.html

The tipping we do on cruise ships started with the British aristocracy who, when visiting each others country manors, would tip the maid or valet they borrowed from their host or hostess at the end of their stay. This practice continued into hotels and onto cruise ships such as the Titanic in the early 1920's when dining in a public restaurant became socially acceptable to the aristocracy. During the 1800's through about 1950's many wealthy American heiresses were married into these aristocratic families and their families carried the tradition of tipping back to America. By 1897 there was a movement against tipping brewing in the USA and Wisconsin, Tennessee, South Carolina, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska attempted to pass state laws to make tipping unlawful in 1915, but these laws failed to pass and tipping continued in the US.

Porters are tipped 1-2 euros per bag. Maids in large hotels are tipped 1 euro.

Hairstylists typically get 10%.

In the UK, in a table service restaurant, either the restaurant automatically adds on a service charge or you tip 10% - 15%. In a more casual cafe with waitress service, you would tip 1 Euro.

Employees do get at least minimum wage in almost all cases, but for example, in a taxi, you round up.

http://gouk.about.com/od/ukcurrencymoneymatters/f/Tipping_UK.htm

People from the UK who pretend they don't know about tipping are just playing a joke here. They know about tipping and that it is indeed common practice and also, they are mostly well-educated enough to be aware that when they leave their country, they need to adapt to how things are in other cultures, including on cruise ships. I think that many people from the UK think that if they pretend they don't understand tipping because it is not their culture, then they will be allowed to get away with not tipping but because of this foolish behavior, the cruise lines have had to crack down and are now calling it a service charge and making it obligatory.

Perhaps, somewhere in the UK there is some small country town person or farmer who has never eaten in a fine dining restaurant nor gone to a pub for a drink, or stayed in a hotel, or gone to a hairdresser or ridden in a taxi anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they have only eaten at home all of their lives and never once gone on a vacation and so, they are completely unaware of tipping. But I doubt it.

If people from the UK don't like tipping, they have no one but themselves to blame for they started the practice of tipping.

hi all

i think you all are missing the point here,1stly i always tip/show my appreciation generously.2ndly this cruise was booked " after specifically asking the question regarding service charge " and being told very clearly by a cruise consultant that his charge would be taken off my account when settling onboard.

3rdly i do not think like others on here that the reason has anything to do with staff tips,in my opinion it is done to make the cruise appear cheaper thereby attracting more clients if not why go through the rigmeroll of paying,filling in forms and then waiting for your own money back? It could be as other cruise lines,when checking in and registering your credit card you simply request this charge not to be put on your account thereby letting people do what they feel happy with.

for the post that asked this line is ncl and ironically the very 1st cruise i had with them on ss norway was never a problem with this procedure.

For me this is a matter of principle being told one thing prior to booking and something different on payment,bit like ordering a car and then being told pay extra for the wheels after you have paid.

cheers

For information - NCL recently changed their 'refund' procedure to this 'requesting it back after the cruise' system. So far, I believe they are the only ones who are doing this.

NCL have been making many changes recently, many (including this one) are not popular. They are also very poor at communicating these changes to their staff and to passengers.

Welcome to Cruise Critic.

You still didn't tell us what cruise line you will be sailing on. The rules for the service charge, tips or whatever you want to call it are different on the various cruise lines out there. On HAL it is called a Hotel Service Charge.

Sounds like your cruise consultant is confused by the many different rules out there.

OP, I understand your frustration. NCL has recently changed the way it handles its service charge. You cannot "opt out". Now, you must pay the service charges and request a refund after your cruise. I can understand how many people would find this extremely frustrating and cumbersome.

Your cruise consultant should have provided further explanation on this topic. For me, the term "opt out" implies that I don't pay, not that I have to pay and later request a refund.

For more info on this topic, please see https://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge and this link with instructions on how to request that refund: http://www.cruisecritic.com/v-5/news/news.cfm?ID=6529

hi all

i think you all are missing the point here,1stly i always tip/show my appreciation generously.2ndly this cruise was booked " after specifically asking the question regarding service charge " and being told very clearly by a cruise consultant that his charge would be taken off my account when settling onboard.

3rdly i do not think like others on here that the reason has anything to do with staff tips,in my opinion it is done to make the cruise appear cheaper thereby attracting more clients if not why go through the rigmeroll of paying,filling in forms and then waiting for your own money back? It could be as other cruise lines,when checking in and registering your credit card you simply request this charge not to be put on your account thereby letting people do what they feel happy with.

for the post that asked this line is ncl and ironically the very 1st cruise i had with them on ss norway was never a problem with this procedure.

For me this is a matter of principle being told one thing prior to booking and something different on payment,bit like ordering a car and then being told pay extra for the wheels after you have paid.

cheers

I know here in the states the law is that what is written supercedes what is spoken in contract law. If one can show that what was said meets certain criteria than some consumer fraud laws will kick in to afford some protection.

That said I think your only recourse is to cancel the cruise if you can do so without penalty because you certainly aren't going to get NCL to change its policy (or go on the cruise and follow the procedure in place to adjust the service charges). I doubt that any of this warrants legal action (I am of course not a lawyer).

hi

to clear up a point the assurances were given by an NCL cruise consultant not a travel agent,because of those assurances i went ahead and booked with my travel agent.

other cruise lines have never given me a problem with this procedure/check in/register credit card/advise to not include service/gratuities/problem gone.

as i said in earlier post leaving everybody to do what they are happy with.

i wonder why our american friends are so convinced the staff get any of "the service charge " ?

many nations are not of that opinion in fact dear old blighty had a session of "Rip off Britain " solely covering this subject (which included many cruise ship workers) and many customer nationalities.;)

tonypolly,

Your complaint is therefore with the NCL cruise consultant you spoke with, and who misinformed you on this specific issue. Do you have that person's name? If so, you can hand this issue to your TA to deal with. You are unlikely to be able to discuss this further with the cruise line itself as you booked with a TA; did you happen to discuss this with the TA prior to booking? If not, I do not think you have any recourse at this point except to follow the policy of the line and request your service charge be refunded to you.

As for how or if you choose to tip, that is an Entirely Different issue which has been discussed ad nauseum on these boards and should be kept out of this thread if you want actual answers as to how to proceed with your problem. Your perceptions of how the service charge is actually disbursed differ vastly with what my cruise staff have told me time and time again.

hi

yes i have his name and his reassuring email,i disagree regarding having recourse with ncl,the TA is not charging me re service ncl are after having told me that that item was deductable at the time of onboard settlement.TA has sold me a cruise package with a total price which I am happy with.

as for " your " cruise line only you know if that was included in " Rip off Britain " programme regarding staff moaning but you can get replay on bbc iplayer.

hi all

i think you all are missing the point here,1stly i always tip/show my appreciation generously.2ndly this cruise was booked " after specifically asking the question regarding service charge " and being told very clearly by a cruise consultant that his charge would be taken off my account when settling onboard.

3rdly i do not think like others on here that the reason has anything to do with staff tips,in my opinion it is done to make the cruise appear cheaper thereby attracting more clients if not why go through the rigmeroll of paying,filling in forms and then waiting for your own money back? It could be as other cruise lines,when checking in and registering your credit card you simply request this charge not to be put on your account thereby letting people do what they feel happy with.

for the post that asked this line is ncl and ironically the very 1st cruise i had with them on ss norway was never a problem with this procedure.

For me this is a matter of principle being told one thing prior to booking and something different on payment,bit like ordering a car and then being told pay extra for the wheels after you have paid.

cheers

For starters, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.:) Vitually all the mass market cruise lines do not include tips in their advertised price so how would one line appear cheaper to attract more clients over another? That only works if you're pricing, say NCL, against one of the luxury lines that DO include tips.

As far as questioning whether or not crew gets any of the tips, it's been documented, anecdotal and other ways that they do. The base salary is very low so it's hard to believe that crew would work for such a pittance and come back year after year.

Sadly, it's also a well known fact that the cruise consultant one speaks to on the phone doesn't always know what they're talking about and give wrong information.

Now for my opinion on the way NCL is now handling the service charge/tips.;) I think too many people were opting out and not giving anything. I am by no means saying you are one of those. NCL now makes it harder for the stingy, mean people.

hi

to clear up a point the assurances were given by an NCL cruise consultant not a travel agent,because of those assurances i went ahead and booked with my travel agent.

other cruise lines have never given me a problem with this procedure/check in/register credit card/advise to not include service/gratuities/problem gone.

as i said in earlier post leaving everybody to do what they are happy with.

i wonder why our american friends are so convinced the staff get any of "the service charge " ?

many nations are not of that opinion in fact dear old blighty had a session of "Rip off Britain " solely covering this subject (which included many cruise ship workers) and many customer nationalities.;)

NCL is not going to change its policy because of what the cruise consultant told you so if this really sticks under your skin the only remedy you have is to cancel your cruise. If you go on the cruise and want to adjust the service charges for any reason then you'll have to do it with the procedure NCL has in place whether you like that procedure or not, you will not be able to get the charges adjusted while you are onboard.

hi

this about not seeing the wood for the trees, it is ncl that is naming the service charge as a means to make wages more palatable therefore tips,they say it is not compulsory but make you pay it by putting it on your registered credit card and insisting you actually pay it?

Why should i have to go through hoops when i get home to get my own money back By asking the relevant questions prior to booking and getting positive assurances from a ncl cruise consultant that it would be removed onboard when i settle my account?? in other words making it crystal clear i do not agree with it and having a ncl cruise consultant saying one thing and another one reversing that assurance (on an email not over the phone) smells of miss selling.now i have a posting on here saying ncl cruise consultants haven't a clue what they are talking about,very re-assuring i dnt think.

hi

this about not seeing the wood for the trees, it is ncl that is naming the service charge as a means to make wages more palatable therefore tips,they say it is not compulsory but make you pay it by putting it on your registered credit card and insisting you actually pay it?

Why should i have to go through hoops when i get home to get my own money back By asking the relevant questions prior to booking and getting positive assurances from a ncl cruise consultant that it would be removed onboard when i settle my account?? in other words making it crystal clear i do not agree with it and having a ncl cruise consultant saying one thing and another one reversing that assurance (on an email not over the phone) smells of miss selling.now i have a posting on here saying ncl cruise consultants haven't a clue what they are talking about,very re-assuring i dnt think.

They do it because it's their ball and their rules. Many don't like it (I am not a big fan myself). Their cruise consultants have long been known to not know much or knowing misinformation.

As I have said, at the end of the day you are left with two choices- you can cancel your cruise or you can go on the cruise and adjust the charges after the cruise.

hi

you obviously are describing exactly mis-selling,giving knowingly false info to obtain a sale then trying to alter that info. there most certainly is a third option i will elaborate after my cruise!!

cheers

hi

you obviously are describing exactly mis-selling,giving knowingly false info to obtain a sale then trying to alter that info. there most certainly is a third option i will elaborate after my cruise!!

cheers

Yes, you most certainly may bring up a legal claim after your cruise. All I can say is good luck. As I said what you are told by a representative does not alter the written contract and overcoming that is a big hill to climb.

hi

i have booked a cruise on the strength of info given me by a "cruise consultant ". the info was that the considerable amount re service charges could be opted out of if one preferred.however now the booking has been made they are saying it has to be paid on settlement of onboard account and can only come as a refund made after i have returned home,i am not happy with that as i had been led to believe this deduction would be done on settlement of my onboard account. anybody advise me what to do.

cheers:)

Since you don't want to pay the service charge and prefer to "stif" the crew, I would be very happy to advise you what to do. Oh wait. That would be inappropriate. ;)

hi

you obviously are describing exactly mis-selling,giving knowingly false info to obtain a sale then trying to alter that info. there most certainly is a third option i will elaborate after my cruise!!

cheers

Where are you getting the "knowingly giving false information"? As has been stated, the reps don't always give the correct information. It's not JUST NCL, that complaint goes across the board for every line. Do you honestly think cruise line resort to such tactics just to get a sale? If that were the case, people would surely figure it out and not continue to cruise.

......... As I said what you are told by a representative does not alter the written contract and overcoming that is a big hill to climb.

Or possibly not, Sparks. ;)

Neither the Q&A on NCL's UK website, nor the T&Cs (in which NCL specifically include those Q&A) appear to have been updated since 2014 !!

They refer only to pre-paid service charges being refunded post-cruise.

*Where your service charge has been pre-paid before departure, refunds are not available on board and you must apply for a refund, if applicable, after your return home by writing to our Guest Relations department.

Prior to about September last year, NCL's policy was the same as other cruise lines - passengers could adjust or remove the charge on their on-board account.

The charge is confirmed in the t&cs (clause 22) as "discretionary ", and I think NCL would have a hard time persuading an English court that forcibly taking the money and subsequently refunding it could be described as "discretionary".

Just as a by-the-by, another FAQ answer on their UK website says "In addition, a suggested gratuity of 18% on drink bills, dining options, which are not inlcuded in the cruise fare and on spa and salon bills will be added automatically and charged to your on-board account."

A suggested 18% gratuity ??? It'd be fun to see their reaction if a passenger declined that suggestion. ;)

The t&c's and FAQs are also littered with typos. All very sloppy.

Like iheartbda, I doubt - and the OP wouldn't be able to prove - that the NCL rep deliberately lied. They're too inefficient for that. :p

What should the OP do to remove the charge?

Simplest would be to not let it spoil the enjoyment of the cruise, allow the charge to remain on the on-board account but afterwards write a very uncomplimentary letter to NCL about their policy, require them to refund, and tell them NCL will never get their custom again.

And in future perhaps do what I do. When choosing a cruise, factor into the ticket prices the differences in service charges & other on-board costs, and an extra allowance in the case of NCL for their well-known nickel & diming, in order to assess the overall value before booking.

I have a feeling the OP has different plans ;), but each to their own.

JB :)

Actually tipping IS common in the UK and actually originated there in the 1700's in taverns. The word TIP is actually short for "to insure promptitude."

http://www.foodwoolf.com/2010/08/history-of-tipping.html

 

The tipping we do on cruise ships started with the British aristocracy who, when visiting each others country manors, would tip the maid or valet they borrowed from their host or hostess at the end of their stay. This practice continued into hotels and onto cruise ships such as the Titanic in the early 1920's when dining in a public restaurant became socially acceptable to the aristocracy. During the 1800's through about 1950's many wealthy American heiresses were married into these aristocratic families and their families carried the tradition of tipping back to America. By 1897 there was a movement against tipping brewing in the USA and Wisconsin, Tennessee, South Carolina, Illinois, Iowa and Nebraska attempted to pass state laws to make tipping unlawful in 1915, but these laws failed to pass and tipping continued in the US.

 

Porters are tipped 1-2 euros per bag. Maids in large hotels are tipped 1 euro.

 

Hairstylists typically get 10%.

 

In the UK, in a table service restaurant, either the restaurant automatically adds on a service charge or you tip 10% - 15%. In a more casual cafe with waitress service, you would tip 1 Euro.

 

Employees do get at least minimum wage in almost all cases, but for example, in a taxi, you round up.

http://gouk.about.com/od/ukcurrencymoneymatters/f/Tipping_UK.htm

 

People from the UK who pretend they don't know about tipping are just playing a joke here. They know about tipping and that it is indeed common practice and also, they are mostly well-educated enough to be aware that when they leave their country, they need to adapt to how things are in other cultures, including on cruise ships. I think that many people from the UK think that if they pretend they don't understand tipping because it is not their culture, then they will be allowed to get away with not tipping but because of this foolish behavior, the cruise lines have had to crack down and are now calling it a service charge and making it obligatory.

 

Perhaps, somewhere in the UK there is some small country town person or farmer who has never eaten in a fine dining restaurant nor gone to a pub for a drink, or stayed in a hotel, or gone to a hairdresser or ridden in a taxi anywhere in the UK. Perhaps they have only eaten at home all of their lives and never once gone on a vacation and so, they are completely unaware of tipping. But I doubt it.

 

If people from the UK don't like tipping, they have no one but themselves to blame for they started the practice of tipping.

I doubt you will find many UK hairdressers or waiters who are regularly tipped in Euros. Why would they be? It makes me believe that your knowledge of tipping in the UK is a little sketchy, to say the least. Especially the bit about tipping in a pub, which is pure fantasy - times have changed since the 1600s.

And your last sentence is plain nonsense. Do you mean it, or are you on a wind-up?

I doubt you will find many UK hairdressers or waiters who are regularly tipped in Euros. Why would they be? It makes me believe that your knowledge of tipping in the UK is a little sketchy, to say the least. Especially the bit about tipping in a pub, which is pure fantasy - times have changed since the 1600s.

 

And your last sentence is plain nonsense. Do you mean it, or are you on a wind-up?

Nobody ever tips in a pub and I have 46 years of pub experience ;) . Of course you might tip the waiter in a pub restaurant.

As for using euros, the reaction would be interesting, and possibly painful if you took their advice on where to stick your euros :eek:

hi

this about not seeing the wood for the trees, it is ncl that is naming the service charge as a means to make wages more palatable therefore tips,they say it is not compulsory but make you pay it by putting it on your registered credit card and insisting you actually pay it?

Why should i have to go through hoops when i get home to get my own money back By asking the relevant questions prior to booking and getting positive assurances from a ncl cruise consultant that it would be removed onboard when i settle my account?? in other words making it crystal clear i do not agree with it and having a ncl cruise consultant saying one thing and another one reversing that assurance (on an email not over the phone) smells of miss selling.now i have a posting on here saying ncl cruise consultants haven't a clue what they are talking about,very re-assuring i dnt think.

I suggest that nothing is going to make you happy. Your best course of action is to cancel and avoid sailing with NCL in the future.