Security on River Cruises anyone concerned?

Just read about raid on Avalon Cruise ship in the Amazon. We have been on four River cruises and with all the terror attacks we are staying away from Europe for awhile. On my bucket list was Istanbul .. No way! Do you think River Cruises especially France will have additional security? They are a soft target.

do you mean protection on the cruise ships? I doubt it. remember it is not just France dealing with terror attacks. so many of the countries of Europe are so close and movement of people is easy.

many easy soft targets anywhere there are crowds. we see it in other countries too. protection/security is difficult and complex. short of packing weapons which is not permitted individuals just have to be mindful of their surrounding and take the usual precautions.

 

sadly some places may never be the same. we treasure our memories and would love to return but some areas are no longer on our to do list.

I can understand staying away from Turkey or any country experiencing a coup/coup attempt. The situation in the entire country is, unfortunately, way too unpredictable and fluid. I do not understand staying away from an entire country that has suffered a single attack (Belgium) or multiple dispersed (France) terrorist attacks. Writing off western Europe entirely is incomprehensible to me.

 

There are soft targets everywhere people congregate including hotels, riverboats, shopping malls, parks, etc. In my experience (in Hungary, Austria, Germany, Netherlands and France) riverboats are usually docked in high traffic areas near town centers and are locked at night and have 24 hour security.

 

Unfortunately, terrorism has become a fact of life but it won't stop me from living and traveling. We were just on 2 river cruises in France in late May (the Seine) and early June (the Rhone) where every tour guide we met thanked us for coming to France and providing both emotional and financial support to the people of the country.

 

On 9/11 I watched the Pentagon burn from my office a mile away, the plane flew over the car of a good friend who watched it hit the Pentagon in his rear view mirror, and a friend of my sister heard the plane fly over her school not realizing that it was about to hit the office her husband happened to be visiting at the Pentagon (he did not survive). The amazing thing was that we all (except my sister's friend understandably) went to work the next day and carried on because that really is all you can do. It took more than a year for tourism to recover from the attack and that had a very negative effect on the area's economy and just added one more stressor to life in the area. So if I can help a little bit by traveling to somewhere I've always wanted to visit - even if there have been terrorist attacks - I will do so. Statistically I should have no problems and I know I'll enjoy myself.

you raise some important issues particularly about the damage/costs to countries and individuals when they are impacted by the events we have all seen. tourism is a huge business for many countries. some risks can be mitigated but the civil unrest in some places is not conducive to safe/free travel.

luckily we have many choices and individuals will make decisions that suit them. we hope we do not see do not travel alerts for areas we want to see but only time will tell.

The pirates on the Amazon wanted the money, they didn't want to harm anyone or make a political statement. If the area is known to have pirates then the cruiselines should avoid the area. But being a soft target of terrorists can't be avoided because of the randomness and unpredictability. Who knows where can be next? Anywhere really. Think of all the fireworks displays you have attended. Any one of them could have been the target of terrorists. That's how they operate.

The pirates on the Amazon wanted the money, they didn't want to harm anyone or make a political statement. If the area is known to have pirates then the cruiselines should avoid the area. But being a soft target of terrorists can't be avoided because of the randomness and unpredictability. Who knows where can be next? Anywhere really. Think of all the fireworks displays you have attended. Any one of them could have been the target of terrorists. That's how they operate.

 

And the Colonels in Turkey wanted to take over the government, not harm tourists. And the attacker in France clearly wanted to harm a large number of people -- 150 on a river boat would be too small potatoes. You have to differentiate kinds of danger and weigh the likelihood that you would be in harm's way.

Do you think River Cruises especially France will have additional security? They are a soft target.

 

I really hope that nothing changes as there really isn't any point in adding 'security theater' that really has no real impact on real safety, only perception.

 

Where do you stop?

 

This is a numbers game, it is much easier to wait until everyone leaves the ship and gets onto a bus/coach where they are all packed into a small space.

 

Or much as in the sad recent incident in France, don't even try and hit a moving target like a ship or a coach, just find a large crowd...

 

So, no, nothing recent is changing any of our plans, certainly not a pirate attack on a ship in Peru.

I can understand staying away from Turkey or any country experiencing a coup/coup attempt. The situation in the entire country is, unfortunately, way too unpredictable and fluid. I do not understand staying away from an entire country that has suffered a single attack (Belgium) or multiple dispersed (France) terrorist attacks. Writing off western Europe entirely is incomprehensible to me.

 

There are soft targets everywhere people congregate including hotels, riverboats, shopping malls, parks, etc. In my experience (in Hungary, Austria, Germany, Netherlands and France) riverboats are usually docked in high traffic areas near town centers and are locked at night and have 24 hour security.

 

Unfortunately, terrorism has become a fact of life but it won't stop me from living and traveling. We were just on 2 river cruises in France in late May (the Seine) and early June (the Rhone) where every tour guide we met thanked us for coming to France and providing both emotional and financial support to the people of the country.

 

On 9/11 I watched the Pentagon burn from my office a mile away, the plane flew over the car of a good friend who watched it hit the Pentagon in his rear view mirror, and a friend of my sister heard the plane fly over her school not realizing that it was about to hit the office her husband happened to be visiting at the Pentagon (he did not survive). The amazing thing was that we all (except my sister's friend understandably) went to work the next day and carried on because that really is all you can do. It took more than a year for tourism to recover from the attack and that had a very negative effect on the area's economy and just added one more stressor to life in the area. So if I can help a little bit by traveling to somewhere I've always wanted to visit - even if there have been terrorist attacks - I will do so. Statistically I should have no problems and I know I'll enjoy myself.

 

Well said....I think the most important thing to take away from all of this is the fact that acts of terrorism cannot be anticipated or prepared for...they are random and can happen anywhere at any time....like plane crashes and automobile accidents. What happened on the Amazon wasn't random in any way, shape or form...it was a planned and targeted burglary and as such having additional security on board or having the boats travel in pairs (like we did in Egypt) should make a big difference in future attempts.

We have had home grown incidents right here in the US. So what are you going to do? Stay away from shopping malls and movie theaters and concerts or anyplace people gather in numbers. We've even had churches shot up!

 

Our river cruise is in August. We are not going to Turkey - which would concern me because an unstable government is never a good place to be. We're doing Amsterdam to Basel on the Rhine. I will probably be a bit more vigilant - especially in Amsterdam - but I'm not letting anyone or anything deter me!

 

I could slip and fall in my bathtub or down my cellar stairs - and that's probably more likely than being caught in a terrorist attack. I could drive on one of our crazy local highways and get hit by someone texting on a phone or playing Pokemon Go :D

 

It sounds trite, but if you let it change your life, they win. Not winning on my account! I'm just planning on being aware of my surroundings - that's it. If I hear screaming, I will "duck & cover" I had a lot of practice during drills in the 50s :)

In the past couple of years I've noticed more beefy crewmen at the entry to the ships when docked. That makes me feel more secure.

Capriccio, what a thoughtful post. My DH and I have never let the incidents in Israel stop us from traveling there to visit our friends. I was even there when the Hezbollah war started in 2006, and was back in Israel the next year. No matter where we travel, be it overseas or in our own town, we need to be aware of our surroundings and not take unnecessary risks. We anticipate our September trip to Central Europe goes smoothly but if anything happens, hope our travel insurance company comes through if needed.

I agree with all the has been said. We are currently on Viking Grand European cruise from Budapest to Amsterdam. To us security is not apparent. Anyone can walk on board. Yesterday, in Vienna, we walked onto an Avalon ship docked next to us. Wanted to see inside and no one questioned us. This is our 1st River Cruise after many ocean cruises.

 

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My CroisiEurope Seine cruise is in a little over 2 weeks. The only things concerning me are getting through the pipe connecting England and France as the migrant problem can disrupt this and to make sure my son has enough food in to feed my cat. Otherwise for me it is go with the flow and just be as vigilant as I am in London.

We noticed more security on our April cruise in France than we have ever had in the past. There was a locked entry code (code needed) at the beginning of the dock leading to the boat and the boat required key access at all times. We are used to the sliding doors being motion sensitive and not requiring us to slide a key.

 

We are leaving for Portugal in 3 weeks and then on a Danube cruise in the fall, with a few days in Austria at the beginning of the trip. Next year we plan two trips to Europe; one will be France as we have come to love the south of France and want to expand our exploration of the wine regions and the other will likely be Italy.

 

We will continue to travel as much as possible and Europe remains our favorite destination. We will go as often as time and finances allow.

Edited July 18, 2016 by caviargal

Staying away from Europe for a while?

 

Yes, an we are putting away our plans to visit the USA, seems there's no safety there.

Gun fights in major cities between police and madmen, slaughter in a nght club, bombing at the Boston marathon, it's just too dangerous!!!

My best friend is a retired Secret Service Agent who was in charge of the VP security for many years. He is the main security consultant for one of the largest riverboat lines and cruises with them incognito on a regular basis to update potential issues and view current practices. So they are very aware of security and we don't see a lot of what goes on behind the scenes.

are you talking passenger/crew safety or issues around theft etc?

 

I would imagine risk assessments/management would be done on a regular basis by all cruise lines.

are you talking passenger/crew safety or issues around theft etc?

 

I would imagine risk assessments/management would be done on a regular basis by all cruise lines.

 

He has been focused more on where boats are vulnerable from potential security threats...not crew theft, etc. One of the big issues he has found is the "rafting" or "double docking" where passengers from different boats pass thru other boats.

that is understandable. we have also seen people who come aboard who are not passengers or staff, probably friends/family/social visitors but these usually have some sort of label/ID. they are usually accompanied by a staff member and not allowed to wander the ship unsupervised.

We have a France river cruise booked in July 2017 and I have absolutely zero concerns about our safety and security. We've got random acts of terror almost every single day in the U.S., and I still go outside here. At least there are fewer guns in France.

Leaving for France and Spain in 4 weeks. We had a friend involved in the 9/11 tragedy who died, lived the next town over from the Sandy Hook tragedy and now a short distance from the Charleston tragedy of last year. So much tragedy in the world but we plan on going next month. Just can't stay in the house and make it our prison. But, I totally understand everyone's views and respect them.

that is understandable. we have also seen people who come aboard who are not passengers or staff, probably friends/family/social visitors but these usually have some sort of label/ID. they are usually accompanied by a staff member and not allowed to wander the ship unsupervised.

While you will be supervised if you ASK to look around the boat, IME anyone who looks like they may belong will not be questioned if they board with a returning group tour or if the boat has boats rafted outside of it. "My Experience" is based on at least 20 weeks on river boats, the majority in Europe. A river boat certainly could be a target for terrorists, but IMO there are better targets out there (there are more people in airports and most people relate to airports much more than boats). My biggest security concern on boats would be an appropriately dressed robber forcing me into my cabin, stealing anything of value and leaving me bound and gagged. But to be honest I still consider that unlikely. I'm continuing to sail (I have done both river and ocean this year, and still have 2.5 river weeks scheduled in 2016).

 

Thom

there are new gates that need a code to open to enter the ship. Heard these are springing up along the riverboat stops. We were in Bordeaux ..our CD said that 80% of the time, people do not close the gate after them! After you enter the metal gate have to walk down a gangway to enter. Secure? Possibly would keep strangers and those who forgot the code from entering, but serious trouble makers would have no problem. At least gives a thought to security.

Rick

This thread is for discussion about security on "River Cruises especially France" as stated in OP's original post. Discussion about the recent attack on a river cruise on the Amazon is continuing here:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2378726

Posts on that topic on this thread will be moved there.

I would tend to agree with those that say there are much better "soft targets" out there - be it France, Germany, etc. I would generally agree that River Boats are going to be relatively safe, even without any additional steps.

 

We are heading off again this fall and have minimal worries - though there are countries we would of course avoid. We are not concerned about Germany or France.