Regatta Princess

For those that have asked, yes, there has been a change since the merger. O is going the same way Princess went after the takeover by Carnival.

Food is lower quality, and menu repeats weekly. Much more promoting of bingo, wine tasting, and spa lectures/treatments.

Staff is still great, but there seems to be an overall reduction in quality. Too bad, but I think that if you are TRULY OBJECTIVE, you will notice it. Lots of hype, no follow-through. I know that some will disagree with me, but that is my opinion.

We've seen no changes and believe me I watch carefully for any slippage.

For those that have asked, yes, there has been a change since the merger. O is going the same way Princess went after the takeover by Carnival.

 

Food is lower quality, and menu repeats weekly. Much more promoting of bingo, wine tasting, and spa lectures/treatments.

 

Staff is still great, but there seems to be an overall reduction in quality. Too bad, but I think that if you are TRULY OBJECTIVE, you will notice it. Lots of hype, no follow-through. I know that some will disagree with me, but that is my opinion.

Count me in the "disagree" group.

Except for the specialty restaurants, where the menus basically remains the same (except for nightly specials), the "repeat pattern" for main courses in the MDR and Terrace Grill is no less than 18-20 days. We just did 24 days on Riviera in March/April and know that for a fact.

As for "selling" stuff: other than the cruise director's "morning TV show" and a brief pre-mealtime PA announcement plus the blurbs in the Currents newsletter, our recent experience on Riviera (plus Regatta for 18 days last fall) found none of the obnoxious selling pressures found on mass market lines.

It's also worth the reminder that, as far as a Princess comparison is concerned, O only two years ago spent $40 million to renovate the Ocean Princess, which now sails as Sirena.

Perhaps you can share with us what specific cruise formed your observations.

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I have not noticed more bingo, spa lectures & tasting

than when we cruised in 2004

What is different though .... no art auctions :)

Food is subjective & sometimes we have had misses but overall still good quality

JMO & observations

Since FDR is the CEO of NCLH, the corporation is being run by the Oceania/Regent Seven Seas (Prestige Cruise Holdings) side of the house, not the NCL side. As a result if anything has changed for the worse you can't blame NCL, because they're not running the show. NCL passengers on the other hand have every right to blame any negative changes they believe have happened on Oceania/Regent Seven Seas.

Besides how can you have more Bingo? It's once a day at most.

I have seen some changes over the years - all but inevitable - but fortunately they have nothing to do with the quality of food or service (although I do miss my favorite lobster salad at Terrace).

When we see significant changes in the food or service, that will be the time for us to move on.

As always, YMMV.

NCL passengers on the other hand have every right to blame any negative changes they believe have happened on Oceania/Regent Seven Seas.

Let's face it, NCL has been in a race to the lowest common denominator ever since they started competing with Carnival in the mid '70's.

As the size of their ships skyrocketed the economy of scale offered some protection from the plummeting quality, but after forty years the "Cheapest at any cost" business model now leaves darned little wiggle room.

Let's face it, NCL has been in a race to the lowest common denominator ever since they started competing with Carnival in the mid '70's.

As the size of their ships skyrocketed the economy of scale offered some protection from the plummeting quality, but after forty years the "Cheapest at any cost" business model now leaves darned little wiggle room.

Your corporate history lesson is completely wrong. Ted Arison, Carnival's founder, was an original partner of Knut Kloster's when Kloster founded NCL in 1966. It was Arison who broke off from NCL, and formed Carnival to compete with NCL in 1972. It was always Carnival that had the "cheapest at any cost" business model, not NCL. Certain aspects of NCL's product, particularly their suite and Haven products are actually far above anything Carnival has to offer, as well as superior to almost anything else offered by any other mass market line. I've cruised on Carnival and they couldn't pay me to do it again, while I'm quite willing to pay good money to cruise on NCL and I continue to do so a couple of times a year.

I have observed an increase in announcements and more push towards sales than in the past. I will not agree with a decrease in quality of food.

On my recent cruises, and I go on Oceania every few months, there are definitely more announcements than there were 5 years ago. More port talks, i.e. sales push, more extra cost tastings etc. I'm amazed at the cost of wine tastings I see advertised. I hope there are some good wines in those tastings.

Personally I still think it's a great product, and I ignore the things I'm not interested in, such as spa talks, bingo, drink tastings, etc. The bottom line is they are a for profit company.

I have observed an increase in announcements and more push towards sales than in the past.

I think some CD's are more prone to more announcements than others

Last year our CD only did a few announcements like the morning one, noon update with the Captain & a reminder for bingo

not many other ones

There was one CD who seemed to be on the PA a lot of the day

Your corporate history lesson is completely wrong. Ted Arison, Carnival's founder, was an original partner of Knut Kloster's when Kloster founded NCL in 1966. It was Arison who broke off from NCL, and formed Carnival to compete with NCL in 1972. It was always Carnival that had the "cheapest at any cost" business model, not NCL. Certain aspects of NCL's product, particularly their suite and Haven products are actually far above anything Carnival has to offer, as well as superior to almost anything else offered by any other mass market line. I've cruised on Carnival and they couldn't pay me to do it again, while I'm quite willing to pay good money to cruise on NCL and I continue to do so a couple of times a year.

Actually, the Carnival split was far more scandalous than you are painting it, you may want to read The Devils on the Deep Blue Sea to get the full picture:

www.amazon.com/Devils-Deep-Blue-Sea-Cruise-Ship/dp/0452287340/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1494623798&sr=1-3&keywords=the+devil+and+the+deep+blue+sea

Subsequent to the Arison defection, Norwegian continually coarsened their product until their fairly recent reintroduction of the Class System on cruise ships (i.e. the Haven).

I find the physical layout of the Haven mildly claustrophobic, the restaurant arrangements dull, and the pool placement intolerable.....and that is before we say word one about why classes were abolished in the first place.

Actually, the Carnival split was far more scandalous than you are painting it, you may want to read The Devils on the Deep Blue Sea to get the full picture:

www.amazon.com/Devils-Deep-Blue-Sea-Cruise-Ship/dp/0452287340/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1494623798&sr=1-3&keywords=the+devil+and+the+deep+blue+sea

 

Subsequent to the Arison defection, Norwegian continually coarsened their product until their fairly recent reintroduction of the Class System on cruise ships (i.e. the Haven).

I find the physical layout of the Haven mildly claustrophobic, the restaurant arrangements dull, and the pool placement intolerable.....and that is before we say word one about why classes were abolished in the first place.

I really don't care about what this person claims to know about the dirty details of the Arison split from NCL and the subsequent formation of Carnival because it's not particularly relevant.

In fact NCL did not continually coarsen their product as you claim. In reality the reason the company had to be rescued from pending financial collapse by Apollo Management in late 2007/early 2008 was the grandiose plans and spending of NCL's then-CEO Colin Veitch. In his tenure as NCL CEO from 2000-2008 Veitch spent vast sums of money to upgrade the NCL product as well as place orders for ships that could not be operated profitably by the company.

It was under Veitch's stewardship that NCL introduced the Haven product. In fact I was on the maiden transatlantic voyage of the first NCL ship with a Haven, the Norwegian Jewel, in 2005...12 years ago, not the "fairly recent" introduction you claim.

It appears that the Haven schematic you included in your post is from one of the Jewel-class ships, the oldest ships with a Haven. The newer ships look nothing like that.

I have no idea what words like "claustrophobic", "dull" and "intolerable" add to the discussion other than meaningless over-the-top drama.

The newer ships look nothing like that.

-and if you don't find that vulgar, dull and intolerable, then I have to question your taste level.

this is what a ship should look like-

No, they look like this:

-and if you don't find that vulgar, dull and intolerable, then I have to question your taste level.

this is what a ship should look like-

You've posted more irrelevant information. We were talking about the interior schematic of the Haven you posted, not the exterior design. And actually the ships newer than the Epic don't look like the picture you posted either. Epic was a one-off. When NCL came to its senses after Apollo Management took control of the company and fired Colin Veitch they cancelled the orders for the other Epic class ships.

Is it time to give this back and forth a rest????

Wiks

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You've posted more irrelevant information. We were talking about the interior schematic of the Haven you posted, not the exterior design. And actually the ships newer than the Epic don't look like the picture you posted either. Epic was a one-off. When NCL came to its senses after Apollo Management took control of the company and fired Colin Veitch they cancelled the orders for the other Epic class ships.

This may come as a surprise to you, but when discussing something with another person, you alone don't get to define the parameters of the conversation; kindly stop trying to do that.

What has actually been happening here is that you disputed my premise that NCL has been coarsening their product since the Arison defection.

I replied with significant signs of that coarsening, i.e. their reintroduction of the class system and the actively ugly appearance of their ships.

You followed up with defensive statements, such as "they no longer do it that way", and/or, "they fired the guy who made that decision..."

At this point, your true position seems to be:

"their grossest errors are mostly corrected swiftly, therefore NCL is not coarsening as swiftly as you say".

Good news for some-

This may come as a surprise to you, but when discussing something with another person, you alone don't get to define the parameters of the conversation; kindly stop trying to do that.

 

What has actually been happening here is that you disputed my premise that NCL has been coarsening their product since the Arison defection.

 

I replied with significant signs of that coarsening, i.e. their reintroduction of the class system and the actively ugly appearance of their ships.

 

You followed up with defensive statements, such as "they no longer do it that way", and/or, "they fired the guy who made that decision..."

 

At this point, your true position seems to be:

"their grossest errors are mostly corrected swiftly, therefore NCL is not coarsening as swiftly as you say".

Good news for some-

Sorry, but when someone tries to divert the conversation with tangential nonsense that is short on factual content and relevance I'm going to call them out. It's laughable that you think it's perfectly OK for you to try to direct a conversation, but it's forbidden for others to do so.

I really could care less about your opinion of how ugly the ships are. It doesn't affect my cruise experience one iota.

You have no one other than FDR to blame for the current status and direction of NCL. After all he is the CEO of NCLH and surely must have approved the ordering of more and more of those big, ugly ships. You apparently can't comprehend that they have their place in the market and Oceania has its place...and there are any number of cruisers who can enjoy both for different reasons and in different circumstances.

You have no one other than FDR to blame for the current status and direction of NCL. After all he is the CEO of NCLH and surely must have approved the ordering of more and more of those big, ugly ships

...else he would not have been hired to dig NCL out of their seemingly hopeless financial malaise.

I suppose that his continued success will rest on how much of a silk purse he can make out of that particular sows ear (and how quickly).

I wish him only the best!

It was never my position that there is no Market for providing the cheapest possible cruise fares, just that cheapest being the primary goal over a long period of time virtually requires a coarsening of the product.

As you say, NCL itself knew there was a quality issue more than a dozen years ago, which is why they inserted higher level penthouse sections (i.e. Havens) onto their ships.

How can you possibly claim now that rapidly declining quality was never an issue? :confused:

Mr. Del Rio's record of how to run a cruise line is unimpeachable....

Agreed.

I believe the reality of the situation is that, through Apollo, NCLH took over Prestige (O and Regent) in name only. O and Regent's management took over NCLH with Apollo's financial backing, viewing a potentially very lucrative turnaround opportunity.

Mr. Del Rio's record of how to run a cruise line is unimpeachable....

...else he would not have been hired to dig NCL out of their seemingly hopeless financial malaise.

I suppose that his continued success will rest on how much of a silk purse he can make out of that particular sows ear (and how quickly).

I wish him only the best!

 

It was never my position that there is no Market for providing the cheapest possible cruise fares, just that cheapest being the primary goal over a long period of time virtually requires a coarsening of the product.

As you say, NCL itself knew there was a quality issue more than a dozen years ago, which is why they inserted higher level penthouse sections (i.e. Havens) onto their ships.

How can you possibly claim now that rapidly declining quality was never an issue? :confused:

Once again, you need a history lesson. It was Kevin Sheehan who was selected by Apollo Management to bring NCL out of the financial doldrums, and he was quite successful in doing so, making a consistent money loser into a consistently profitable operation. NCL under Sheehan was profitable enough to have a successful IPO when the company went public and he also successfully guided the merger of NCLH and PCH. Apollo realized that it made more sense to merge the two companies than it did to take PCH public as a separate entity, and chose Sheehan to take charge of the operation. Initially Sheehan was the CEO of the merged corporation, not FDR.

And some would say that FDR's body of work as co-CEO at Renaissance wasn't all that great. The story about Renaissance being put out of business by the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks isn't quite accurate. R was in deep financial distress before 9/11. The terrorist attacks just hastened R's demise. They were going under regardless. FDR left R a few months before its funeral, but the business didn't suddenly start its downhill slide when he left. R's finances were in trouble while FDR was in charge.

Agreed.

 

I believe the reality of the situation is that, through Apollo, NCLH took over Prestige (O and Regent) in name only. O and Regent's management took over NCLH with Apollo's financial backing, viewing a potentially very lucrative turnaround opportunity.

Nope. NCLH had turned around years earlier under Kevin Sheehan, who was hired by Apollo to turn the company around. NCL was able to have a successful IPO because Sheehan had made into a consistently profitable company. Apollo tapped Sheehan to lead the merger of PCH into NCLH, and appointed Sheehan as initial CEO of the combined company, not FDR.

Bottom Line:

O is going downhill.

Bottom Line:

O is going downhill.

I suggest you sail elsewhere on another line if thats how you feel...

Jancruz1

I suggest you sail elsewhere on another line if thats how you feel...

Jancruz1

+1 thank goodness we all have choices.