So where did the crew go?

This is a general question for all of the mass market lines and is really not a Celebrity specific question.

With all of the reductions in bar staff, wait staff, cabin staff, activities staff, etc. on all of the cruise lines nowadays, what is happening to the reduced staff? Does the ship that had a total crew of let's say 1300 a few years ago now only have a crew of 1200 (or less)? Or are they moved to a different position, for example manning tables throughout the ship pushing drink packages or specialty dining?

And since these crew members supposedly get very little direct pay from the cruise line in the first place, and mostly rely on passenger gratuities, is reducing the staff really saving the cruise lines that much money?

Thx.

Bruce

The cruise lines are still collecting the grats from each passenger and have recently increased the daily $$ so where is the money going ? :D

 

And since these crew members supposedly get very little direct pay from the cruise line in the first place, and mostly rely on passenger gratuities, is reducing the staff really saving the cruise lines that much money?

 

Thx.

 

Bruce

I thought the same thing. However, if a cabin attendant is given twice as many cabins, he gets twice the tips and is likely to stay longer so the cruise line has less training to do. If service suffers, it doesn't matter since tipping is mandatory.

Good questions. And I agree ... how much are they really saving??? Grr.

My guess is that they move to other positions or everyone gets spread out due to new-builds.

I think it is these ships were build for a different type of cruising. What the M class came out it was just fixed, two sitting , dinning. There was one speciality restaurant and the buffet, period. Now they added more restaurants, more cabins but there is less crew quarters as the took away crew cabins to add a diesel generator set years age. More services, less crew equals less service.

I thought the same thing. However, if a cabin attendant is given twice as many cabins, he gets twice the tips and is likely to stay longer so the cruise line has less training to do. If service suffers, it doesn't matter since tipping is mandatory.

What a wonderfully idealistic view of the world. All designed to reduce the training bill and everyone's happy. The blighters obviously weren't working hard enough to feel fulfilled before, but with twice as many cabins to service they'll never want to go home.

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I thought the same thing. However, if a cabin attendant is given twice as many cabins, he gets twice the tips and is likely to stay longer so the cruise line has less training to do. If service suffers, it doesn't matter since tipping is mandatory.

I realize the crew should be getting paid more from the increase in gratuities, and some of the crew is probably getting paid more from having more cabins, etc., but my guess is there are a lot of crew members that would rather earn a little less and not have to work 100 mph 16-18 hours a day.

Thx.

I realize the crew should be getting paid more from the increase in gratuities, and some of the crew is probably getting paid more from having more cabins, etc., but my guess is there are a lot of crew members that would rather earn a little less and not have to work 100 mph 16-18 hours a day.

 

Thx.

Ain't my problem -- The crew has always been friendly and professional, and I never hear them complaining.

Well, if they don't like it, and their contract ends, they can just head home. :rolleyes:

Ain't my problem -- The crew has always been friendly and professional, and I never hear them complaining.

 

Well, if they don't like it, and their contract ends, they can just head home. :rolleyes:

I suspect if you "heard them complaining" they'd be headed home a lot sooner than when their contract ends.......:rolleyes:

I don't think they work 16-18 hours a day but close to 12 for sure...especially in housekeeping and I'm sure there are MANY that never come back after that 1st contract....

Having said that what I heard from several staff members on the Reflection TA who had previously been with different cruiselines....ie, Cunard, Princess.....was that they preferred Celebrity because of how the crew is treated.... now whether or not that was just B.S. I don't know....but the crew on Reflection was the best we've ever experienced on any line.....

This is a general question for all of the mass market lines and is really not a Celebrity specific question.

 

With all of the reductions in bar staff, wait staff, cabin staff, activities staff, etc. on all of the cruise lines nowadays, what is happening to the reduced staff? Does the ship that had a total crew of let's say 1300 a few years ago now only have a crew of 1200 (or less)? Or are they moved to a different position, for example manning tables throughout the ship pushing drink packages or specialty dining?

 

And since these crew members supposedly get very little direct pay from the cruise line in the first place, and mostly rely on passenger gratuities, is reducing the staff really saving the cruise lines that much money?

 

Thx.

 

Bruce

They all have contracts. Contract is either extended (and stuff would return back after vacation) or not.

This is a general question for all of the mass market lines and is really not a Celebrity specific question.

 

With all of the reductions in bar staff, wait staff, cabin staff, activities staff, etc. on all of the cruise lines nowadays, what is happening to the reduced staff? Does the ship that had a total crew of let's say 1300 a few years ago now only have a crew of 1200 (or less)? Or are they moved to a different position, for example manning tables throughout the ship pushing drink packages or specialty dining?

 

And since these crew members supposedly get very little direct pay from the cruise line in the first place, and mostly rely on passenger gratuities, is reducing the staff really saving the cruise lines that much money?

 

Thx.

 

Bruce

As others have said, staff are on fixed-term contracts. Their contracts may be renewed or not, in which case they would return home or find another contract.

The biggest cost in any business is the workforce, and reducing the workforce will give the company significant savings, even if they are relatively poorly paid.

...............The biggest cost in any business is the workforce, and reducing the workforce will give the company significant savings, even if they are relatively poorly paid.

They must be paying people well compared with the cost of fuel at about 6 feet travelled per gallon burnt. It must be why RCCL have introduced the robot bartender.

But I'll bet the gratuities won't disappear to zero when all the food is microwaved and delivered by an automated trolley. The robot vacuum cleaner is already available and coming to a cabin near you soon.

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All of this goes back to my original questions. If the reduced staff members are only being moved to another position on the ship, to perhaps revenue generating positions pushing the drink and dining packages, then they are not saving labor costs. In that case, they're basically just using part of the passenger gratuities to pay the staff for something in which the passenger receives no services for their "paid" gratuities.

In the past, I've seen some of the MDR waiters and other wait staff having to man the tables pushing for specialty dining in their "free" time.

I'm not asking these questions to complain, and with all of the discussion of reduced staff over the last few years, I'm just curious and would like to know if the overall crew numbers are in fact gradually being reduced on the ships as time goes on.

Thx.

All of this goes back to my original questions. If the reduced staff members are only being moved to another position on the ship, to perhaps revenue generating positions pushing the drink and dining packages, then they are not saving labor costs. In that case, they're basically just using part of the passenger gratuities to pay the staff for something in which the passenger receives no services for their "paid" gratuities.

 

In the past, I've seen some of the MDR waiters and other wait staff having to man the tables pushing for specialty dining in their "free" time.

 

I'm not asking these questions to complain, and with all of the discussion of reduced staff over the last few years, I'm just curious and would like to know if the overall crew numbers are in fact gradually being reduced on the ships as time goes on.

 

Thx.

Who cares? Celebrity is a business and they can run it in any way they seem fit. I'm a shareholder. If they want to make a profit, good for them and good for me. Why are you so worried about it? Is there some agenda you're concerned with or pushing? I pay my automatic tips and let Celebrity sort it out. It's not my issue, and it's certainly not my problem.

Staff definitely working harder and multi tasking much more,,,

Over the years crew demographics have changed.....many from EU countries could not continue working on US dollar standard and opted out...leading to new staff..many needing training.,..esp for fine dining assignments

Seeing a change again now that dollar is a bit stronger .,,

This is a general question for all of the mass market lines and is really not a Celebrity specific question.

 

With all of the reductions in bar staff, wait staff, cabin staff, activities staff, etc. on all of the cruise lines nowadays, what is happening to the reduced staff? Does the ship that had a total crew of let's say 1300 a few years ago now only have a crew of 1200 (or less)? Or are they moved to a different position, for example manning tables throughout the ship pushing drink packages or specialty dining?

 

And since these crew members supposedly get very little direct pay from the cruise line in the first place, and mostly rely on passenger gratuities, is reducing the staff really saving the cruise lines that much money?

 

Thx.

 

Bruce

Every crew person reduced is one less person getting wages however tiny those wages may be, one less mouth to feed, one less person using toilet paper and other supplies, one less set of uniforms to wash, one less set of sheets and towels to wash, fewer person getting a paid plane ticket home at the end of each contract.

The bean counters are in charge. Fundamentally it's a question of how far the cruise industry can go in trying to replicate what the airlines did to airline travel. Spend more on transporting and feeding the people paying big bucks. Spend less on the people in the cheap seats until you get to the point at which those bookings start to drop.

A proposed change would only save pennies per person so it's not worth it, said no bean counter ever.

They must be paying people well compared with the cost of fuel at about 6 feet travelled per gallon burnt. It must be why RCCL have introduced the robot bartender.

 

But I'll bet the gratuities won't disappear to zero when all the food is microwaved and delivered by an automated trolley. The robot vacuum cleaner is already available and coming to a cabin near you soon.

 

 

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You still have to pay the robot bartender 18% 'gratuity'!

With all of the reductions in bar staff, wait staff, cabin staff, activities staff, etc. on all of the cruise lines nowadays, what is happening to the reduced staff?

I have heard this observation frequently in the last 6 months. So I decided to investigate on my most recent Celebrity cruise which concluded last Sunday.

I talked to my chief room steward about his personal experiences. He has been a long term employee of Celebrity. He said that 4 or 5 years ago the workload for a 2 person steward crew was reduced from 22/23 staterooms a day to 20 staterooms a day. He said that his required responsibilities were also reduced so he had more time for cleaning each stateroom. He said his pay from Celebrity has gone up as a result of increased gratuities.

I talked to some of the restaurant servers, they said staff has been increased in the restaurants so they have more time to spend on guests. With more server staff, some (maybe 2 at a time) are asked to sell dining packages at times when the restaurant is closed and the other servers are cleaning and prepping the restaurant for the next meal. So they are not pushing packages on their "free" time.

I asked the Hotel Director about staffing levels over the last several years. He said staffing levels have remained constant over the last several years. He said the designed staffing levels might vary by +/- 12 persons per cruise because of staff personal issues (illness, family problems, disciplinary, etc).

Interestingly, I was talking to the Photo Studio staff and they ARE NOT Celebrity employees. They work for an independent contractor as do the Art Auction, Casino, Production Show, and Shopping Mall staff.

So where have all the staff gone? They have been re-positioned within the ship to give better customer service. I think that Celebrity listens to customer complaints/suggestions to improve our cruising experience.

So here is my question, for example, would we rather have more bartenders or a cleaner stateroom? I know how I would answer.

The fewer employees, the less payroll, the bigger the profit....simple math!

Ain't my problem -- The crew has always been friendly and professional, and I never hear them complaining.

 

Well, if they don't like it, and their contract ends, they can just head home. :rolleyes:

Please say that you are trolling! If not, all I can say is WOW!!! And that's not in a good way..

All of this goes back to my original questions. If the reduced staff members are only being moved to another position on the ship, to perhaps revenue generating positions pushing the drink and dining packages, then they are not saving labor costs. In that case, they're basically just using part of the passenger gratuities to pay the staff for something in which the passenger receives no services for their "paid" gratuities.

 

In the past, I've seen some of the MDR waiters and other wait staff having to man the tables pushing for specialty dining in their "free" time.

 

I'm not asking these questions to complain, and with all of the discussion of reduced staff over the last few years, I'm just curious and would like to know if the overall crew numbers are in fact gradually being reduced on the ships as time goes on.

 

Thx.

There were some good guesses made by posters here; most of them were incorrect.

Cruise lines are very short-sighted when they design and build ships. For the past hundred years or so, after the ships are built and operating, the owners always come up with additional features and services that require additional staff to make them work.

But when cruise ships are first built, they have only enough beds to house the number of staff required on the day the ship starts sailing. There are no extras.

I currently manage a ship that was built in 2005. Since 2005, government regulation and new SOLAS requirements have forced the company to add 48 additional Bridge and Engine Room staff. We cannot say no; these people MUST be accommodated on the ship.

We have 2 options:

1. Convert passenger cabins to crew cabins. The Sales and Marketing people say "Absolutely Not". This would reduce the number of pax beds, thereby reducing the revenue and profit for the ship - and reducing the cash incentives for the Sales and Marketing staff. It would also force the cruise line to significantly increase the price of your cruise in order to cover the lost revenues.

2. Identify ship crewmembers who are not essential to the operation and revenues, and remove them from the ship. Then give their empty beds to the newly required staff. Unfortunately the crew who were removed had twin or quad cabins. The new Bridge and Engine staff insist on single cabins. That requires many more crew to be eliminated in order to make space for the new single cabins. Which crew are removed? Those who are not legally required, and those who are not directly responsible for generating revenue. Who are those people? Waiters and Cabin Stewards.

Also since 2005, the company has added many additional services and features that require additional staff to make them happen - and make more revenue and profit for the company.

In order to accommodate these additional revenue staff, the company converted single officer cabins to doubles and quads, reducing perks for existing crew in order to accommodate additional crew.

In 2016, my ship has every crew bed occupied - just as it was in 2005. The total crew on my ship today is just slightly higher than it was when the ship first sailed. As labor costs increase, more and more of the back of house employees are being paid from the tipping pool. The front of house staff are working harder and longer, but their earnings are not increasing noticeably.

So where did the crew go? They went home.

Working on a mass market cruise ship is no longer a very desirable job - even for third world employees. Earnings are not keeping up with inflation, and those third world countries are developing their own hospitality industries that often pay better than the ships do.

Who are the cruise lines recruiting? The service employees who are not good enough to be hired by the hotels in their home countries.

What does this mean to you? You continue to get the cheapest possible cruise, the cruise lines continue to protect their profits, and service on mass market ships continues to decline.

(Almost) Everybody Wins.

Cruise lines have cut back staff in many areas.

There was a time on HAL when a cabin attendant had 9 suites. Then each one had 18. Now we have 2 cabin stewards taking care of 30 - 34 cabins. Where did the cabin stewards go? Some leave because there is no job for them and their contracts aren't renewed. Some go home to find jobs and some go to other crew lines if there are openings.

Same thing in the dining room -- a steward used to have about 4 tables serving about 16 - 20 people. Now they have more tables and more people to serve.

We have also noticed fewer bar servers.

Cut backs are happening everywhere.

And it is true -- the Hotel Service Charges (or whatever you want to call them) have gone up.

Passengers have demanded lower fares and casual experiences. Cruise lines have listened and adjusted their crew to passenger ratios accordingly.

hi everyone

Cruise line workers are not the only people in the world who are being asked to do more work and be paid less.

I have just retired so I am no longer part of it, but my last employer hasn't given the workers a raise for 7 yrs.. In that time we have had benefits reduced as well, just to save them money. Yes managers are able to come and say, no more shift premiums...that's not done any more etc...

You always have a choice. You can leave, find something better. It's not just in North America. It was only last year that a well known local locomotive manufacturer told its workers that they would have to take a 50% pay cut to stay competitive, when the union said no, the following weekend the plant was fenced up and the company started interviews that next week in a nearby state. They were talking to the people waiting in line to hand in their applications on the news, so you couldn't miss it. Sounds like this company had this well planned and had no issue giving their past employees the shaft.

People around the world do what they need to feed their families and try to get ahead. The people that work on these cruise ships are doing what they think is best for themselves. They have always been friendly and courteous and I try to be that way with them. I will give them extra tips when they have helped me out just as I would do at home for service industry workers.

I am saying thank you for your help. I appreciate it. I am not sorry for them. I am not going to change their life.

Who cares? Celebrity is a business and they can run it in any way they seem fit. I'm a shareholder. If they want to make a profit, good for them and good for me. Why are you so worried about it? Is there some agenda you're concerned with or pushing? I pay my automatic tips and let Celebrity sort it out. It's not my issue, and it's certainly not my problem.

My goodness, don't you know it is not politically correct to say such a thing. But we do agree with you, 100%. When folks go to a restaurant, hotel, McDonalds, movie theater, etc. they do not normally concern themselves with the employees pay, benefits, or how the manager allocated his/her resources. But put those folks on a ship and they ruminate about the crew. Personally, we do not care how many cabins our steward(s) clean, or how many tables our waiters handle, etc. We do care about getting good service...and we usually do. The crew are not slaves, and in fact compete to get the jobs on ships because the pay is good..compared to what they can make in their own countries. If they are unhappy with their work, they can simply go home at the end of their contract and find another job.

As to how the crew resource is allocated....we only care if we experience a degradation in service.

Hank