Crystal river cruises to redeploy two new builds to rhine & danube rivers

Crystal website has been updated. No itineraries are currently shown for the Debussy and the Ravel. Here is the generic email that went out today to all.

Dear Valued Crystal Society Member,

During this time in Crystal®’s exciting and unprecedented growth to becoming The World’s Most Luxurious Hospitality & Lifestyle Brand Portfolio™, please be advised of the following change to Crystal River Cruises™.

As you may know, Crystal Debussy™ and Crystal Ravel™ were originally designed to sail on the Seine River from Paris to Normandy beginning June 2017 and the Garonne and Dordogne Rivers from Bordeaux from August 2017, respectively. However, based on overwhelmingly positive guest feedback regarding Central Europe itineraries in Germany, Austria, Belgium, and Amsterdam, we have elected to delay our entry into the French river cruise market, choosing instead to prioritize our offerings in the German/Austrian region in order to meet high traveler demand for those destination experiences.

Therefore, to best serve our valued guests and accommodate new itineraries on the Rhine, Main and Danube rivers, we are modifying and enlarging these luxury river yachts. Please note, new service-entry dates are April (Crystal Debussy) and May (Crystal Ravel) in 2018.

To book a Crystal luxury vacation—whether by ocean, yacht or river—or, for questions regarding an existing booking you may have, please contact Crystal Reservation Sales at 1-866-446-6625.

On behalf of everyone at Crystal, we thank you for your understanding and look forward to exploring the Old World with you, in brand-new luxury!

Sincerely,

Edie Rodriguez

Chief Executive Officer & President

Crystal Cruises

The Moselle flows into the Rhine at Koblenz.

In fact at Koblenz, there are more moorings for riverboats on the Moselle rather than on the Rhine (and are take up by Viking).

It shouldn't be difficult to plan for a diversion of routes to the Moselle while basing the river boat on the Rhine itself. That would provide a variation of routes with Rhine riverboat.

Crystal website has been updated. No itineraries are currently shown for the Debussy and the Ravel. Here is the generic email that went out today to all.

 

Dear Valued Crystal Society Member,

During this time in Crystal®’s exciting and unprecedented growth to becoming The World’s Most Luxurious Hospitality & Lifestyle Brand Portfolio™, please be advised of the following change to Crystal River Cruises™.

As you may know, Crystal Debussy™ and Crystal Ravel™ were originally designed to sail on the Seine River from Paris to Normandy beginning June 2017 and the Garonne and Dordogne Rivers from Bordeaux from August 2017, respectively. However, based on overwhelmingly positive guest feedback regarding Central Europe itineraries in Germany, Austria, Belgium, and Amsterdam, we have elected to delay our entry into the French river cruise market, choosing instead to prioritize our offerings in the German/Austrian region in order to meet high traveler demand for those destination experiences.

Therefore, to best serve our valued guests and accommodate new itineraries on the Rhine, Main and Danube rivers, we are modifying and enlarging these luxury river yachts. Please note, new service-entry dates are April (Crystal Debussy) and May (Crystal Ravel) in 2018.

To book a Crystal luxury vacation—whether by ocean, yacht or river—or, for questions regarding an existing booking you may have, please contact Crystal Reservation Sales at 1-866-446-6625.

On behalf of everyone at Crystal, we thank you for your understanding and look forward to exploring the Old World with you, in brand-new luxury!

Sincerely,

 

 

Edie Rodriguez

Chief Executive Officer & President

Crystal Cruises

I already posted this on another thread. No worries it should be posted here. My bad.

One thing that no one is mentioning. The original "plan" was for four ships to come online in 2017. Two in June, two in August. Of those, one in each time frame was a "German" design and one "French". Now, the "French" are being redone to match the other two.

I suspect that something may be happening in the production realm to delay the building of the ships. Rather than four relatively simultaneous builds, we now have only two at a time - the 2017 deliveries and then the 2018. All to the same design, so it's not like they have to create new blueprints. In fact, it should be easier to do four of the same design than two and two. It is also allowing Crystal to spread out the rollouts - I suspect that their entry into the river market may not have bookings to support this many ships at once in 2017.

Just an alternative view for consideration.

One thing that no one is mentioning. The original "plan" was for four ships to come online in 2017. Two in June, two in August. Of those, one in each time frame was a "German" design and one "French". Now, the "French" are being redone to match the other two.

 

I suspect that something may be happening in the production realm to delay the building of the ships. Rather than four relatively simultaneous builds, we now have only two at a time - the 2017 deliveries and then the 2018. All to the same design, so it's not like they have to create new blueprints. In fact, it should be easier to do four of the same design than two and two. It is also allowing Crystal to spread out the rollouts - I suspect that their entry into the river market may not have bookings to support this many ships at once in 2017.

 

Just an alternative view for consideration.

I'm sure it works out in Crystal's favor that there is a small delay considering they are now launching the ships into the same market and not different ones, and there will be tiny operational benefits from having identical and not just sister ships, but there was no way they were going to make such drastic changes (length?) to ships already under construction without there being a delay. Even though the designs are very similar, there are some features in there that require different vendors and possibly different resources at the yard considering they are going from shorter to longer, besides the redesign, rework and change menagement aspect.

To your point though, considering the redeployment aspect, there are some perks for Crystal in the delay.

Vince

I wonder if the new build ocean going ship with the private condos will ever come to fruition?

That was all many of us really wanted...a new build....like RSSC Explorer, which I hear, is beautiful.

Oh well maybe it will come in late 2019 or 2020.

I wonder if the new build ocean going ship with the private condos will ever come to fruition?

 

That was all many of us really wanted...a new build....like RSSC Explorer, which I hear, is beautiful.

 

Oh well maybe it will come in late 2019 or 2020.

Those are a completely unrelated project under separate development. The first is on the timeline for Q1 2019, according to reports.

Vince

I'm sure it works out in Crystal's favor that there is a small delay considering they are now launching the ships into the same market and not different ones, and there will be tiny operational benefits from having identical and not just sister ships, but there was no way they were going to make such drastic changes (length?) to ships already under construction without there being a delay. Even though the designs are very similar, there are some features in there that require different vendors and possibly different resources at the yard considering they are going from shorter to longer, besides the redesign, rework and change menagement aspect.

 

To your point though, considering the redeployment aspect, there are some perks for Crystal in the delay.

 

Vince

Personally, I think it is a good idea to space them out a bit. While river ships are almost stamped from a "cookie cutter", every new design and new ship has its teething pains. I would rather they launch them at a more measured pace so as to give them more time to manage any teething pains should they occur. And yes, Q1 2019 was the time frame I was told by our Crystal Rep for the first of the new ocean ships. As I said in a prior post, that doesn't cast it in stone, but it is at least from a Crystal source.

One thing that no one is mentioning. The original "plan" was for four ships to come online in 2017. Two in June, two in August. Of those, one in each time frame was a "German" design and one "French". Now, the "French" are being redone to match the other two.

 

I suspect that something may be happening in the production realm to delay the building of the ships. Rather than four relatively simultaneous builds, we now have only two at a time - the 2017 deliveries and then the 2018. All to the same design, so it's not like they have to create new blueprints. In fact, it should be easier to do four of the same design than two and two. It is also allowing Crystal to spread out the rollouts - I suspect that their entry into the river market may not have bookings to support this many ships at once in 2017.

 

Just an alternative view for consideration.

I agree. I see no need for the design of a river boat to reflect the country it's sailing in. Perhaps they can accomplish some of that with changeable decor instead of the permanent structure and design of the ship itself. Precisely because we never know where the next incidents may be and in two years time the Rhine may be off limits.

Personally, I think it is a good idea to space them out a bit. While river ships are almost stamped from a "cookie cutter", every new design and new ship has its teething pains. I would rather they launch them at a more measured pace so as to give them more time to manage any teething pains should they occur. And yes, Q1 2019 was the time frame I was told by our Crystal Rep for the first of the new ocean ships. As I said in a prior post, that doesn't cast it in stone, but it is at least from a Crystal source.

+1... Especially for a new product in the market -- not just a new build series.

Definitely agree about the date not being cast in stone. Until the design is finalized, there is plenty of opportunity for it to change.

I agree. I see no need for the design of a river boat to reflect the country it's sailing in. Perhaps they can accomplish some of that with changeable decor instead of the permanent structure and design of the ship itself. Precisely because we never know where the next incidents may be and in two years time the Rhine may be off limits.

That's sort of one of the things that baffles me... I may be completely wrong on this, but I thought one of the reasons the French deployed ships were to be smaller were because if the physical requirements of those waters and docks. Doesn't the enlarging mean that Crystal won't have any ships that they can deploy elsewhere until they build more (smaller) ships?

In the end, this seems to give them less flexibility to respond to market demands, not more. :confused: but what do I know...

Vince

This makes it so difficult for people to book these cruises in advance and for those who have already booked...everything is in flux and still subject to change. With all the previous hoopla about the new launches it gives one pause to book anything in the future for fear another delay or change will take place. All these exciting announcements are going to fall on deaf ears if things keep changing.

At least Crystal has two dependable ocean vessels that people can book with some reliability.

That's sort of one of the things that baffles me... I may be completely wrong on this, but I thought one of the reasons the French deployed ships were to be smaller were because if the physical requirements of those waters and docks. Doesn't the enlarging mean that Crystal won't have any ships that they can deploy elsewhere until they build more (smaller) ships?

 

 

 

In the end, this seems to give them less flexibility to respond to market demands, not more. :confused: but what do I know...

 

 

 

Vince

I agree wholeheartedly. Such a shame that French river cruising seems to be totally off the radar now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+1... Especially for a new product in the market -- not just a new build series.

 

Definitely agree about the date not being cast in stone. Until the design is finalized, there is plenty of opportunity for it to change.

 

 

 

That's sort of one of the things that baffles me... I may be completely wrong on this, but I thought one of the reasons the French deployed ships were to be smaller were because if the physical requirements of those waters and docks. Doesn't the enlarging mean that Crystal won't have any ships that they can deploy elsewhere until they build more (smaller) ships?

 

In the end, this seems to give them less flexibility to respond to market demands, not more. :confused: but what do I know...

 

Vince

As I mentioned previously, our rep said there will be two ADDITIONAL river ships built, for a total of six. If those ships are built to the specifications of the rivers in France (and those rivers do require smaller ships), the problem is addressed.

As I mentioned previously, our rep said there will be two ADDITIONAL river ships built, for a total of six. If those ships are built to the specifications of the rivers in France (and those rivers do require smaller ships), the problem is addressed.

True, but presumably not until 2019, perhaps.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

As I mentioned previously, our rep said there will be two ADDITIONAL river ships built, for a total of six. If those ships are built to the specifications of the rivers in France (and those rivers do require smaller ships), the problem is addressed.

True, and that was immediately what I remembered when I read Crystal say "temporarily," but that still leaves them with four ships (and 100% of their confirmed river fleet) that they can only do a limited number of deployments with. It just seems like a pretty big risk to me. That said, as we've all pointed out, Genting is pretty successful with gambles. :)

Vince

Too many promises too fast. We booked a Crystal river cruise on board while cruising on the Symphony last week. Friends referred us to a brochure left in the staterooms and at the sales desk. We looked, booked on the second last day of the cruise. Informed agent in delight. We get off ship. Agent replies with confirmed booking and a fare a few thousand dollars over the brochure fare. Shurely shome mistake?! We thought, did we glaze over after too many cocktails? Develop fare dyslexia?

Nope. Fare changes apparently occurred even as we were booking. Sales consultant also showed us deck layout that suddenly wasn't relevant less than 48 hours after the booking. Everything seemed to have changed after we left the ship. Not only were the fares substantially increased, but we were then offered an S4 room for a fare higher than the S2 room we originally booked. Reason? They had reconfigured the ship and added another class category. This appeared to have shuffled decks and prices, probably due to "overwhelming demand".

Why book on board if you can't secure the price in front of you and in front of the Crystal rep?

Or was it an oversight that the fare increase wasn't mentioned while we were booking with a "live" person? How is it, one day after the cruise and the booking, a new category of river ship rooms appear - apparently without informing the Crystal sales consultant on board? Were we using an obsolete brochure widely distributed on board?

Our agent referred us to the notorious "fine print" at the bottom of the less than clear mini brochure (possibly hurriedly produced to lure cruisers on board): basically, he said Crystal could change the information anytime. Right. BUYER BEWARE.

I will admit, we found ourselves confused over which cruise we had actually booked (northbound/southbound) because of the curious way the information was presented in the mini brochure. But were certainly not confused with the fare in the brochure, and the fare displayed in our booking.

Crystal doesn't seem ready to sell river cruises on ships not yet built. For goodness sake, get it right first before whole itineraries are cancelled, rooms changed, unbuilt ships confusedly reconfigured even as they take bookings based on existing configurations. Even travel agents are unclear from one day to the next about correct fares and itineraries. "The brochure says" vs "the website now says". The famed Crystal sureties have become the new Crystal uncertainties and confusion.

Yes, I know, the world has gone mad, and rapid change and adapt is the only recourse. But, what is this? A gamble on river cruise clients? Our group of friends are cancelling the river cruise we booked on just based on uncertainty, lack of clarity, and a general sense of unease brought on by the messiness in the river cruise sector of the Crystal business.

We're booked on an upcoming Mozart cruise. There has one re-configuration room change already, but it seems negligible. It's a built ship that's actually on the water with people on it. Hopefully, the kinks will have evaporated by the time we get on board.

The latest river cruise booking experience was an acute disappointment, especially after such a marvelous cruise on the Symphony.

True, and that was immediately what I remembered when I read Crystal say "temporarily," but that still leaves them with four ships (and 100% of their confirmed river fleet) that they can only do a limited number of deployments with. It just seems like a pretty big risk to me. That said, as we've all pointed out, Genting is pretty successful with gambles. :)

 

Vince

True, but if there is limited demand for the rivers in France..... And I base that on observation. Our agency has booked a LOT of river in the last two years, on all the lines, and I would say only about 5% of that is on the rivers in France. I see all of the bookings that are done.

My biggest concern is with the enormous number of ships (thanks, Viking!!:eek:) on the rivers, especially the Danube. One of my colleagues just came back from a Danube cruise and said they were rafted every day, sometimes three deep!! That, as much as anything else, may be the factor that ultimately dampens the demand for river cruises.

True, but if there is limited demand for the rivers in France..... And I base that on observation. Our agency has booked a LOT of river in the last two years, on all the lines, and I would say only about 5% of that is on the rivers in France. I see all of the bookings that are done.

 

My biggest concern is with the enormous number of ships (thanks, Viking!!:eek:) on the rivers, especially the Danube. One of my colleagues just came back from a Danube cruise and said they were rafted every day, sometimes three deep!! That, as much as anything else, may be the factor that ultimately dampens the demand for river cruises.

I agree... That's sort of where I was going that comment, though. I'd agree I don't see France demand recovering soon, but at the same time, this seems to only contribute more to the Danube glut. On the one hand they will have vessels with better features and probably better financial ratios, but they lose flexibility to deploy where opportunities might be better. At some point they have to hope a competitor blinks, and Crystal captures enough market share from others that the others redeploy where they may have the flexibility that Crystal might not.

Yes, I know, the world has gone mad, and rapid change and adapt is the only recourse. But, what is this? A gamble on river cruise clients? Our group of friends are cancelling the river cruise we booked on just based on uncertainty, lack of clarity, and a general sense of unease brought on by the messiness in the river cruise sector of the Crystal business.

The frustration is certainly justified, but having been through this in the past when the ocean ships were redeployed to different regions because of global events, the reality is that these things happen just the same way whether the ships are new or old, or the company has been around for 3 months or 30 years.

The timing is unfortunate, given those ships are getting their second round of design changes in the past few months, but in reality this change isn't really any different than Crystal or any other cruise line have responded to changes in the sales landscape. They just have the luxury to adapt to a higher degree than they could with an existing fleet, the past few times.

Vince

I got the email about this on Saturday and was not booked on either. However, Crystal never sent notice about my downgrade on Bach--nor did I receive any concession for the inconvenience. So seems to me they are doing a better job for the people booked on Debussy and Ravel.

I live in the UK and booked a river cruise on Debussy for 2018 through a TA and have not had any notification of the changes :confused:

I spoke to the TA last Friday who said they knew nothing, I also spoke to Crystal UK who confirmed the changes but would not discuss further as I had booked through a TA !!

So here I sit waiting !!!

 

I spoke to the TA last Friday who said they knew nothing, I also spoke to Crystal UK who confirmed the changes but would not discuss further as I had booked through a TA !!

 

So here I sit waiting !!!

You manage to contact Crystal UK? How - please share.

I find out most things from this forum that my UK Travel Agent knows nothing about as well.

In fact, my TA is hosting a tea party this week to share their insights about river cruising from the Mozart's christening. Interesting to hear what is said.

JohnKen3.....

I called the number on the Crystal Cruises Invoice that my TA forwarded to me in December.

02073997601

I live in the UK and booked a river cruise on Debussy for 2018 through a TA and have not had any notification of the changes :confused:

 

I spoke to the TA last Friday who said they knew nothing, I also spoke to Crystal UK who confirmed the changes but would not discuss further as I had booked through a TA !!

 

So here I sit waiting !!!

Technically it's the same in the US -- the agent has control of the booking and is supposed to be the one that Crystal talks to... Except the US agents seem to be in slightly better communication with Crystal than the UK agents -- but that's not saying much.

I'm not sure what your agent is waiting for though... The number on the UK agent invoice is the contact number for UK agents. Couldn't they call the same way you did? That's what the US agents usually do when they find out about a change -- either from the cruise line, press or other agents.

Vince

Thanks Vince, I will try !!

Radar246, thanks for sharing your frustrating experience in booking a Crystal river cruise. (It's invaluable information for those of us planning a river cruise on yet-unbuilt ships.) I hope your Mozart cruise goes smoothly and makes up for these early 'kinks' in Crystal's system.