Questionable service dog on the Westerdam

Before I say anything, I would like to say that my wife and I love dogs. Our current Border Collie was a rescued underweight stray and is now trained to compete in agility and flyball trials. We do know a thing or two about training highly intelligent dogs.

Anyhow, a couple brought their corgie with them on a recent Westerdam cruise. The dog was of the short-leg toy stature typical for the breed. The dog was marked as a "service dog" but all it did was follow them around on the end of a long leash just like any other dog would do.

The couple in question appeared typical older HAL passengers but perfectly ambulatory. I watched them in the Lido buffet and they had no trouble collecting their food and walking over to a table with the unhelpful dog in tow. The dog was totally distracted by other people and paid little attention to the owners, unlike a genuine service dog that would have been wearing a harness and been trained to respond to the owner's situation.

It appears to me that these people abused the service dog rules just so they could bring their dog along with them on the cruise. I found it to be unsanitary and really annoying as we and other passengers made arrangements for dog care while cruising.

The only thing that the ship officers/managers would say is that these people had the correct paperwork. The real shame was that there was a totally blind woman on board who really could have used a service dog, but even she did not bring a dog.

igraf

Well, we have two Samoyeds (one is a rescue) and I would not want to take them on vacation with us under any circumstances, UNLESS they were service dogs. I can't imagine why anyone would want to take them along if this was not the case.

So not fair to the dog, the owner, or other guests. Our dogs are happy with their own vacation at our breeders home and would be just miserable on a ship. Perhaps this dog that you saw was with this couple for a reason that was just not apparent to you. There are many different types of service animals, not just seeing/hearing etc.

Also, the women that was blind may not own a service dog or chose not bring it onboard. She certainly would have met the cruiseline criteria.

It's usually service dogs that are highly trained to work with humans.

It maybe a comfort dog, I do know people who utilize this. It does work.

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Yikes! Where do they poop and pee?

Yikes! Where do they poop and pee?

There's a special area set up for service dogs.

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Yikes! Where do they poop and pee?

We wondered the same when we encountered our first dog onboard until we saw the little patch of turf on the promenade deck ... Doggy toilet.

What really made us laugh though was the dog in question wouldn't go if anyone else was walking by and we'd often hear his owners companion pleading with him to go :p

Before I say anything, I would like to say that my wife and I love dogs. Our current Border Collie was a rescued underweight stray and is now trained to compete in agility and flyball trials. We do know a thing or two about training highly intelligent dogs.

 

Anyhow, a couple brought their corgie with them on a recent Westerdam cruise. The dog was of the short-leg toy stature typical for the breed. The dog was marked as a "service dog" but all it did was follow them around on the end of a long leash just like any other dog would do.

 

The couple in question appeared typical older HAL passengers but perfectly ambulatory. I watched them in the Lido buffet and they had no trouble collecting their food and walking over to a table with the unhelpful dog in tow. The dog was totally distracted by other people and paid little attention to the owners, unlike a genuine service dog that would have been wearing a harness and been trained to respond to the owner's situation.

 

It appears to me that these people abused the service dog rules just so they could bring their dog along with them on the cruise. I found it to be unsanitary and really annoying as we and other passengers made arrangements for dog care while cruising.

 

The only thing that the ship officers/managers would say is that these people had the correct paperwork. The real shame was that there was a totally blind woman on board who really could have used a service dog, but even she did not bring a dog.

 

igraf

This dog may be trained to detect an oncoming seizure, diabetic coma, etc.

I'm not fond of people using "service" dogs when they obviously are not trained to do so. But sometimes we won't know what the service dog is trained to do.

Was on a cruise once with Zorro, a service dog complete with his working jacket and who was extremely well behaved. His apparently 'normal' human did raise eyebrows until the gentleman explained he is severe epileptic and Zorro had been trained to feel early signs of his seizures and let him know so he could take his meds and be prepared for a seizure if one did happen.

Zorro was litter-box trained and was also walked several times a day on the little top deck. The crew would argue over whose turn it was as they did love that dog. Interesting that have had a captain who brought his Jack Russell on his cruises.

Reminds me of a good friend who looks very 'normal' but has a sticker so he can park in handicap spots. Once had a big argument with a guy who shut up when my friend showed him his heart transplant scar. Please know I am definitely not a fan of comfort dogs on cruises but one must be careful.

Before I say anything, I would like to say that my wife and I love dogs. Our current Border Collie was a rescued underweight stray and is now trained to compete in agility and flyball trials. We do know a thing or two about training highly intelligent dogs.

 

Anyhow, a couple brought their corgie with them on a recent Westerdam cruise. The dog was of the short-leg toy stature typical for the breed. The dog was marked as a "service dog" but all it did was follow them around on the end of a long leash just like any other dog would do.

 

The couple in question appeared typical older HAL passengers but perfectly ambulatory. I watched them in the Lido buffet and they had no trouble collecting their food and walking over to a table with the unhelpful dog in tow. The dog was totally distracted by other people and paid little attention to the owners, unlike a genuine service dog that would have been wearing a harness and been trained to respond to the owner's situation.

 

It appears to me that these people abused the service dog rules just so they could bring their dog along with them on the cruise. I found it to be unsanitary and really annoying as we and other passengers made arrangements for dog care while cruising.

 

The only thing that the ship officers/managers would say is that these people had the correct paperwork. The real shame was that there was a totally blind woman on board who really could have used a service dog, but even she did not bring a dog.

 

igraf

This reminds me of people who rebuke people with disabled parking passes who "Look Healthy to Me." Perhaps their doctors know something you do not.

It is not your business to know - they do not have to tell the world what their disability is.

You have no idea as to why those people have a service dog - the ship does.

As discussed above it could be for so many reasons you cannot see - epilepsy alert, diabetic alert ....

Obviously you care about dogs - please give people the same chance.

Please do not be so quick to judge.

Why is it that few few of us, upon seeing someone in a wheel chair would question whether the need for the chair was real, or discover someone with a hearing aid would question whether the need was genuine, but upon seeing someone with a service dog feel the need to question whether the service dog was actually a service dog?

Many folks living with disabilities have enough challenges to face everyday without having to prove to total strangers that they are in fact disabled and need a particular tool.

On my past 4 HAL cruises there have been dogs on board. I assume that they are service dogs as it is only service dogs that are allowed on board. They have never bothered me and I have never bothered them. I would no more question the need for an animal than I would question someone about the need for a walking stick or crutches.

There is a long list of animals that can qualify as service animals, tho I have serious reservations about some of them.

While we hear mostly about dogs, I am waiting to see a miniature horse brought on board as a service animal.

Besides miniature horses, the list includes snakes, pigs and more.

There was a dog relief station on the promenade deck near the bow, but I can tell for certain that my dog would not make there all the time!. The fact is that a dog on the ship, especially an untrained dog, means urine in the carpet.

igraf

Yikes! Where do they poop and pee?

Been there, done that, as a close relative is a leg amputee. We know all about abuse of the handicap parking system.

Sorry, but one would have to a complete idiot to trust their life to that corgie will on a ship at sea. It is much more likely that they exaggerated a minor situation because they don't want to leave their dog behind or pay for quality dog care. We pay $50 per day for cageless dog care and it does add up over the course of a vacation.

I will judge because we are talking about urine on the carpet. A ship is no place for a dog.

igraf

This reminds me of people who rebuke people with disabled parking passes who "Look Healthy to Me." Perhaps their doctors know something you do not.

It is not your business to know - they do not have to tell the world what their disability is.

You have no idea as to why those people have a service dog - the ship does.

As discussed above it could be for so many reasons you cannot see - epilepsy alert, diabetic alert ....

Obviously you care about dogs - please give people the same chance.

Please do not be so quick to judge.

Dogs aren't the only things that soil carpets. Look at children and unfortunately some adults with health issues.

Don't cast stones when you have no idea the cause.

Did the dog's vest say "service dog" or "emotional support animal"? The reason I ask, is because I am an owner of an emotional support animal who belonged to my late father. The rules are very specific for these animals and they cannot have vest that say service dog. The owner must also have a letter from a doctor renewed every year. These animals do not have to go through any training unlike service dogs. The thing is anyone can buy a vest and put it on their dog. It is up to the establishment to check credentials.

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The behaviour of true service animals (or comfort animals) is very different from being "pulled along on a long leash". A LOT of training has gone into such animals, they are alert and attentive at all times and always walk close to their human companion. I believe that is the point igraf was trying to make, not that someone did not show a need for a service animal, but that it did not seem to be one.

On one of our cruises there was a young couple with a large dog -- he wasn't wearing any kind of vest. We saw the couple on a shore excursion without the dog. He was also running unleashed on the pier one day.

I wondered why they had the dog with them, but didn't dare ask, knowing the reaction I might get. He didn't seem to be any kind of service or emotional animal. ;)

The behaviour of true service animals (or comfort animals) is very different from being "pulled along on a long leash". A LOT of training has gone into such animals, they are alert and attentive at all times and always walk close to their human companion. I believe that is the point igraf was trying to make, not that someone did not show a need for a service animal, but that it did not seem to be one.

You hit the nail right on the head.

In defense of HAL, the paperwork required to bring a dog onboard is extensive and the request isn't taken lightly.

I see dogs in grocery stores almost daily and that drives me nuts, so completely understand the irritation with a possibly faux service dog. :)

The thing is anyone can buy a vest and put it on their dog. It is up to the establishment to check credentials.

The manager of the grocery store where I see dogs told me they aren't allowed to ask about the credentials. Is that the law, or is it just

management's policy to avoid a confrontation ?

Unfortunately a lot of people will use the legitimate ADA rules to scam the system. It is not as prevalent on cruise ships as it is on the airlines. Most airlines will charge anywhere from $75 to $200, each way, to have a pet under your seat in front of you, in a carrier. Sometimes the charge for an in-cabin pet is more than the ticket for the human. So, people will go on Craig's list or E-Bay and buy a vest and phony doctor's note and they are set to go. The American Disabilities Act has not been updated for a while, so the current rules prohibit the airline (or cruise line) from asking what disability you have that requires a comfort or service animal. All you are required to present at boarding (plane or ship) is your doctor's certification, which may be legitimate or phony, no one actually checks. The boarding agents don't want to take the chance of a law suit by offending a legitimate passenger with a service or comfort animal. But the airlines are getting fed up with emotional support dogs, cats, chickens, snakes, pot-bellied pigs, etc, many of who are obviously just trying to avoid the kennel fees and the airline fees to transport a pet in the cabin. The cabin crews report having to clean up animal feces in the aisles and chase loose animals when their passengers fall asleep and the animals run loose.

I was on that cruise, and the magician had two dogs too! (part of the act, and they were great!)

With ADA rules being what they are, all one could ask is "is that a service dog?" If the answer is yes, no further questioning is allowed or appropriate.

They actually had a live patch of grass for the dogs to go on-

This dog may be trained to detect an oncoming seizure, diabetic coma, etc.

I'm not fond of people using "service" dogs when they obviously are not trained to do so. But sometimes we won't know what the service dog is trained to do.

Exactly.

The manager of the grocery store where I see dogs told me they aren't allowed to ask about the credentials. Is that the law, or is it just

management's policy to avoid a confrontation ?

Our supermarket just put up a "no dogs" sign. Finally. Too many people taking advantage. One gals dog on long leash peed on a bottled water display. I said your dog just peed on that display" and she said " is that so " and walked out of the store. Geez, some people but the point too many people ARE taking advantage and that irritates people like me that are allergic.