HAL no longer requires formal dress

---Because I find bare middrifts on men somewhat vulgar in a formal dining room.

I remember a rather nice cruise out of San Juan on a Carnival ship; we were seated next to a gentlman and his son, and apparently they felt perfectly comfortable wearing fishnet muscle shirts and gym shorts. Yes, they were seated in the MDR dressed that way. No, that attire was not supposed to be allowed.

 

I'm 'ok' with the MDR admitting gentlemen without ties and jackets on Gala Nights; but I'm hoping that the gentlemen don't then push the envelope down to that level. I would hope that a gentleman inappropriately dressed would feel some measure of discomfort; I know I certainly would.

I myself have skipped many formal nights and dined in the buffet; I don't consider that a hardship what soever.

Nor do I, personally. But there are people who do not like to be displaced from where they normally dine, on account of their clothing. HAL, I imagine, is going to continue to follow a policy of wanting people to come back, and so will make as few people desperately unhappy as possible, and its practices will likely continue to shift over time (graphic of scales tipping in background)

Enforce a rule, lose a customer.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

It's nothing to us, certainly. Seattle may feel differently. People who spend thousands on a cruise are not common.

Enforce a rule, lose a customer.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

There's also "Enforce a rule, retain a loyal customer."

There's also "Enforce a rule, retain a loyal customer."

Seattle sees the surveys, and is probably close to the pulse on what customers want and how many are likely to leave or be attracted to cruise more.

---Because I find bare middrifts on men somewhat vulgar in a formal dining room.

I remember a rather nice cruise out of San Juan on a Carnival ship; we were seated next to a gentlman and his son, and apparently they felt perfectly comfortable wearing fishnet muscle shirts and gym shorts. Yes, they were seated in the MDR dressed that way. No, that attire was not supposed to be allowed.

 

I'm 'ok' with the MDR admitting gentlemen without ties and jackets on Gala Nights; but I'm hoping that the gentlemen don't then push the envelope down to that level. I would hope that a gentleman inappropriately dressed would feel some measure of discomfort; I know I certainly would.

I myself have skipped many formal nights and dined in the buffet; I don't consider that a hardship what soever.

When someone is allowed into the MDR dressed as you describe, and are comfortable continuing to sit through dinner like that - the standard set by the cruise line is at fault, and with the MDR manager for allowing it. If it is allowed, then your argument is not with the customer but with the cruise line. I personally would dislike having to see a man's midriff during dinner, and would likely leave with a strong comment to the MDR manager for allowing it. That's all you can do. But you cannot expect that this will become commonplace just because jackets are no longer required.

I would hope that a gentleman inappropriately dressed would feel some measure of discomfort;

Eurodam Nov 15 cruise -

Lined up at MDR on the second gala night. Couple (middle age) in front of us were dressed "differently". She: short mesh over-skirt (mesh = 1/8", openings - 1/2" wide by 1" high), underskirt covered a bit more than daisy dukes. He: jeans, sneakers, sport shirt sans tie, jacket.

As we sat waiting for our entrees, DS (dark suit, white shirt, tie) said quietly "I'm overdressed" - this from someone who doesn't pay attention to such things. I looked around, saw few suits, no tuxes, lots of sports and tropical shirts, dockers and less.

Sad that the discomfort is felt by those adhering to conventions appropriate to a nice restaurant and specified/suggested by the restaurant's owner but "overlooked" by the restaurant's manager.

You say that as if it were a bad thing.

A hundred million thumbs up, Ruth!

It's nothing to us, certainly. Seattle may feel differently. People who spend thousands on a cruise are not common.

I've seen a lot of people that can spend a lot more than a few thousand dollars and, believe me, they can be seen as quite "common". Off the top of my head, I can think of "Dog the Bounty Hunter", Hulk Hogan, the Duck Dynasty family, and others ... Not quite sure that this is the type of business HAL is seeking or trying to retain. Don't remember seeing any of those in HAL brochures :rolleyes:

It's nothing to us, certainly. Seattle may feel differently. People who spend thousands on a cruise are not common.

Really? Every cruise I book is thousands. Not everyone gets the $399 deals. My onboard bill is usually up there too.

Eurodam Nov 15 cruise -

Lined up at MDR on the second gala night. Couple (middle age) in front of us were dressed "differently". She: short mesh over-skirt (mesh = 1/8", openings - 1/2" wide by 1" high), underskirt covered a bit more than daisy dukes. He: jeans, sneakers, sport shirt sans tie, jacket.

 

As we sat waiting for our entrees, DS (dark suit, white shirt, tie) said quietly "I'm overdressed" - this from someone who doesn't pay attention to such things. I looked around, saw few suits, no tuxes, lots of sports and tropical shirts, dockers and less.

 

Sad that the discomfort is felt by those adhering to conventions appropriate to a nice restaurant and specified/suggested by the restaurant's owner but "overlooked" by the restaurant's manager.

I'm sure you and your DH looked very nice, and I'm sorry he felt overdressed. It might make him feel better to know that some of those not participating in the dress code feel underdressed.

On the second gala night of our recent cruise, we went to the show after dinner. DH had a jacket and tie, I was wearing a cocktail dress. Many people were dressed for gala night, but not all. A man came in and sat next to me. He was wearing shorts. I didn't sneer or roll my eyes--the dress code is for the MDR only nowadays, so shorts at the show are OK. I didn't see anyone else give him a dirty look, either. But he felt the need to explain why he was wearing shorts. I don't remember his excuse, as I really didn't care. But it was pretty obvious he knew he was the least well dressed person in that part of the room.

I am a newcomer here so i have no true frame of reference when it comes to HAL. I will be on the Westerdam in 11 days and am ready for a great trip. I will be there with shirt and tie and jacket, because I like to dress up for dinner with my gf. That being said it seems like some people on here are just bashing people if they aren't wearing a suit or tux. I agree there is no place in the MDR for shorts or mesh or anything below a shirt and tie and slacks on Gala night. That being said to drag people over the coals for not wearing a jacket or tux seems a little out of place. Just my 2 cents

I really don't care what anyone wears anymore. I used to. I understand the ambience comments and do not dismiss it but I have been able to stop caring.

 

What I do not understand is why a grown man or woman is so vehement in their determination to wear shorts to a cruise ship dining room. When you book a ship that sets the table with starched white tablecloths, lovely stemware, beautiful dinner set, monogrammed flatware at each table setting, don't you expect to dress appropriate to that atmosphere? Why would you not want to present yourself in an adult, courteous, appropriate manner? Is it such a torture to put on a pair of long pants? What is worth all this babble about you have to be comfortable that has never explained what is so miserable about putting on a pair of dockers/trousers/slacks and a shirt with a collar?

Is it just to be stubborn and 'get away with doing it your way" or are you really so miserably uncomfortable?

 

It seems so childish from where I am sitting.

 

Well said. I will add that the cutlery is silver-plated. Three-cheers to HAL for not subscribing to the "stainless steel is just as elegant as silver" nonsense so prevalent these days. Along with the fine china and linen this makes for an elegant restaurant. Although not required, I will never go to dinner in an "on land" restaurant with such elegant appointments without a jacket and tie. On the formal nights I did wear my tuxedo - and yes, I was much in the minority.

The dumbing down of dress codes is, sadly, inevitable. The head waiters on our cruise did not enforce the formal dress code (which would not meet the definition of "formal" in any dictionary I have seen) so changing it to "gala" is something that doesn't surprise me.

On a previous thread on this topic I said that I would not let the lack of adherence to the formal dress code cause me to not enjoy my dinner, but if people wore baseball caps it might give me indigestion. On the first formal night two young chaps came to dinner in T-shirts and baseball caps, but they did have some sort of jackets (windbreakers perhaps). Rather than give me indigestion it caused me to laugh at my earlier comment.

Those of us who like to dress in the traditional ocean travel manner can only do so and ignore those trendy people who may accuse us of being over-dressed. It is never over-dressing for a gent to wear a jacket and tie in an elegant restaurant or a dinner jacket/tuxedo on a formal or gala night or whatever it is called.

When the lovely QE2 was retired in 2008, Cunard somewhat dumbed down (sorry, "relaxed" to be politically correct ;)) the dress code on the remaining ships. On the non-formal nights (currently called informal) jackets are required and ties are optional. On my crossings and cruises since then it appears that at least a third of men wear jacket and tie and on formal nights up to 95% in the dining rooms will wear real formal wear.

I am a newcomer here so i have no true frame of reference when it comes to HAL. I will be on the Westerdam in 11 days and am ready for a great trip. I will be there with shirt and tie and jacket, because I like to dress up for dinner with my gf. That being said it seems like some people on here are just bashing people if they aren't wearing a suit or tux. I agree there is no place in the MDR for shorts or mesh or anything below a shirt and tie and slacks on Gala night. That being said to drag people over the coals for not wearing a jacket or tux seems a little out of place. Just my 2 cents

Have yourself a great time on WEDM! She's a nice one with an excellent crew

I am a newcomer here so i have no true frame of reference when it comes to HAL. I will be on the Westerdam in 11 days and am ready for a great trip. I will be there with shirt and tie and jacket, because I like to dress up for dinner with my gf. That being said it seems like some people on here are just bashing people if they aren't wearing a suit or tux. I agree there is no place in the MDR for shorts or mesh or anything below a shirt and tie and slacks on Gala night. That being said to drag people over the coals for not wearing a jacket or tux seems a little out of place. Just my 2 cents

My last cruise was on the Westerdam, with a great crew, officers and captain. You will enjoy. And trust me, there will be nothing like you read on here if someone is not wearing a tie or jacket. My experience has always been that nearly everyone dresses suitably, meaning none of the horror stories you may have read here, and there are no dress police onboard.;)

---Because I find bare middrifts on men somewhat vulgar in a formal dining room.

I remember a rather nice cruise out of San Juan on a Carnival ship; we were seated next to a gentlman and his son, and apparently they felt perfectly comfortable wearing fishnet muscle shirts and gym shorts. Yes, they were seated in the MDR dressed that way. No, that attire was not supposed to be allowed.

The "attack" on formal wear on cruises (I still don't understand what is so tough about putting a tie on) simply reflects the dumbing down of our culture in general. Keep in mind we live in a country where James Patterson is our best selling author; rape is an entertainment staple on cable TV and 50% of us can't name our two US Senators.

The "attack" on formal wear on cruises (I still don't understand what is so tough about putting a tie on) simply reflects the dumbing down of our culture in general. Keep in mind we live in a country where James Patterson is our best selling author; rape is an entertainment staple on cable TV and 50% of us can't name our two US Senators.

So true. We live in a rural area in California and now see people coming to funerals (sadly, we now go to several a year) in jeans and tee shirts. I am sure HAL knows its target customer is everyman so has eased the dress requirement to accommodate him. I know this is a sad commentary on our culture but as long as people are nice and treat each other with respect, I choose to let it slide and enjoy life.

The "attack" on formal wear on cruises (I still don't understand what is so tough about putting a tie on) simply reflects the dumbing down of our culture in general. Keep in mind we live in a country where James Patterson is our best selling author; rape is an entertainment staple on cable TV and 50% of us can't name our two US Senators.

You don't understand "what is so tough about putting a tie on" and the rest of us don't understand what you find so enjoyable about wearing a tie. That is the crux of the matter. Some find great enjoyment in dressing up and do not think it a bother. Others get no satisfaction from it and find it quite a bother. Different values. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. And neither will never convince the other.

Just a quick note that goes back to the original subject of this thread - "HA no longer requires formal dress"

I just got off the Eurodam on the 29th. Last Gala Night there was a guy in shorts and flip-flops in the MDR. I believe the thread's subject is certainly correct - no formal or even nice casual dress required.

Just a quick note that goes back to the original subject of this thread - "HA no longer requires formal dress"

 

 

 

I just got off the Eurodam on the 29th. Last Gala Night there was a guy in shorts and flip-flops in the MDR. I believe the thread's subject is certainly correct - no formal or even nice casual dress required.

See, that is what gets us in trouble. One person ignores the rule. The staff does not force the rule. Now all of a sudden everyone thinks that that can be the new rule.

Just a quick note that goes back to the original subject of this thread - "HA no longer requires formal dress"

 

I just got off the Eurodam on the 29th. Last Gala Night there was a guy in shorts and flip-flops in the MDR. I believe the thread's subject is certainly correct - no formal or even nice casual dress required.

You should have taken a pic. A few posters on this thread like the think it doesn't happen.

Were they smart casual flip flops?

Were they smart casual flip flops?

They were "nice" flip flops.....no I meant "dressy".

I mean he wore shoes everyday for work and doesn't want to wear them on HIS vacation.

Plus shoes are so heavy and with all the restrictions on baggage he couldn't pack heavy shoes, nor pay $50 for an extra bag since he already spent $10K on the cruise.. Paying for a porter or extra bags would break the bank.

But I don't know why his flip flops would affect your vacation, since we certainly wouldn't want to impact HIS vacation...

They were "nice" flip flops.....no I meant "dressy".

 

I mean he wore shoes everyday for work and doesn't want to wear them on HIS vacation.

 

Plus shoes are so heavy and with all the restrictions on baggage he couldn't pack heavy shoes, nor pay $50 for an extra bag since he already spent $10K on the cruise.. Paying for a porter or extra bags would break the bank.

 

But I don't know why his flip flops would affect your vacation, since we certainly wouldn't want to impact HIS vacation...

That was s lovely recap of all the salient points of why people just CAN NOT pack formal wear. It made me smile.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would this dress be appropriate on board the MDR?

Pants? Shirt? Jacket? Shoes?

All there.

Would anyone object in the MDR... at YOUR table?

Would this dress be appropriate on board the MDR?

 

Pants? Shirt? Jacket? Shoes?

 

All there.

 

 

Would anyone object in the MDR... at YOUR table?

How exactly would dressing those two in a tuxedo change your opinion and why?