Thomas Keller

We also disembarked Sojourn on April 3 after 21 days HK to HK.

I was told by the CD John Howell that 350 pax were Club members, with 100 Diamond members on board.

May I preface this with we have been sailing with Seabourn for 6 years with 200 days up.

This is a edited version of an email that I sent to a group of our Seabourn friends.

We like the new system at The Colonnade in the evenings where you book on the quarter hour and only 20 persons are allowed entry at a time, i.e. 20 at 7pm, another 20 at 7.15 and so on, saves the "log jam" when 100+ people arrive at once, then grumble when they have to wait for their food.

Tuesday night was the "Thomas Keller Home Style Menu" which I was keen to try after reading the reports here on "Cruise Critic" and also reports from fellow pax who had had some of the menu items in the MDR.

What a disaster it was.

Someone at Seabourn head office has their wires crossed if they thing that this is going to enhance the Seabourn Experience for most pax.

The tables were bare except for a cloth napkin with a knife and fork on a plate and a cast metallic Trivet in the centre. NO CONDIMENTS !!

Bread was brought in a basket ( the bread onboard is now excellent) with a tiny pot with butter, NO SIDE PLATE OR KNIFE.

First up came a "Gem Lettuce Salad" (" slow baked beets, radish, fried capers, chopped egg" ) all on a large plate on the trivet from where you served yourself, (plus a green goddess dressing in a pottery jug.)

It consisted of 6 quarters of Cos lettuce with a little chopped egg dotted around, plus some thinly sliced radish and few tiny cubes of beetroot and a few some fried (tasteless) capers.

We ate less than half, little flavor. BORING

"HickorySmoked BBQ Ribs, BBQ baked beans, braised greens, corn pone, whipped honey butter"

Again in a plate in the centre of the table

VERY SALTY OK, but nothing special, I have eaten better ribs in the MDR on previous cruises. ( I ate better ribs later in the cruise at the Patio Grill one lunchtime)

The Beans. Forgettable, Bland, the beans at breakfast that morning were much nicer.

The corn pone tasted like sweet scones.

"Manchego, Maldonado flat bread,blue apron ale mustard"

The cheese and mustard were nice, nothing special

"Potted Cheesecake, poached blueberries and vanilla chantilly"

Served in what looked like an old jam jar, far too sweet for my taste.

I ATE A LOT OF THE LOVELY BREAD.

Drinks were served in tumblers similar to those we received as wedding presents nearly 50 years ago. The wine warms up too quickly, a number of people asked for stemmed glasses.

All this while hits from the 60's and 70's were played over the sound system.

Suckers for punishment, we tried the Thomas Keller menu at The Colonnade

4 nights later,

No better.

The "Grilled 'RR' Ranch Bone in Rib Eye" came without a bone for our table, I received four small rectangles of fairly tasteless sliced grey meat !

I come away on Seabourn to be spoilt, having to serve myself from dishes in the centre of the table is not what I pay more than $1,000 a day for. I eat much better food than the Thomas Keller food at home.

I asked a number of fellow pax what they thought of the Thomas Keller food, NOT ONE PERSON LIKED IT, a number said they couldn't eat it and send it back.

Seabourn is subtly cutting back in a lot of areas, ( eg. Number of menu items in MDR) but must be spending millions on Thomas Keller !

Is it the 'snob value' of aligning themselves with a famous name?

I would imagine that Seabourn has some pretty high quality head chefs on their ships and I would far prefer that they were allowed to get on with their job rather than trying to recreate a land based restaurant's dishes with no allowances for their own creativity especially when they can't access those vital ingredients but aren't allowed to substitute. I've got to say having read several of the negative posts about the TK menus it does not inspire me to try them :(

There is a fairly different report on TK at present on Quest; 'jenidallas' seemed to like most of it. I know that Quest is about to be the first to have the TK stuff done 'officially' shortly, and I think Odyssey started with these dishes before Sojourn. It is certainly possible that it takes some time for staff to cope completely with cooking and serving of this very different style, so hopefully it will improve in time. I must say that a bread basket and butter with no plate or knife sounds a bit tricky. And ultra-casual is not something either staff or passengers are used to, or indeed probably enjoy.

Is it the 'snob value' of aligning themselves with a famous name?

I would imagine that Seabourn has some pretty high quality head chefs on their ships and I would far prefer that they were allowed to get on with their job rather than trying to recreate a land based restaurant's dishes with no allowances for their own creativity especially when they can't access those vital ingredients but aren't allowed to substitute. I've got to say having read several of the negative posts about the TK menus it does not inspire me to try them :(

I hadn't heard of him before and I am afraid I will not keen to try his wares. J

There is a fairly different report on TK at present on Quest; 'jenidallas' seemed to like most of it.

I have - so far - enjoyed the Thomas Keller dishes I have tried on board. I have not tried them all as I've tried to be selective based on my own personal taste as well as the assessments of some dishes that I've heard from both other guests and servers. (Example, almost all of the Colonnade staff told me "the rib eye night is MUCH better than the rib night"). T

here seem to be a few dishes that have not been well received (such as the duck two nights ago) but I tried the three other Keller dishes and was pleased.

I'll be writing a lengthier blog entry about this next week... in the meantime, the last two entries to my personal blog (see my signature line) were both about Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc concept - as originally designed in California and then as executed here at sea. I am overdue for a third post tying those together.

One last observation I had about the Colonnade offerings. They seem to be more popular with Americans than with those from other countries. I think because of the nature of the food at Ad Hoc (childhood favorites) that it misses the mark for a global audience. The dinner the other night consisted of things I remember eating as a kid at Sunday suppers and the like - Waldorf salad, steak with mashed potatoes and broccoli, French silk pie - but interpreted with "grown up" twists (wine soaked raisins in the Waldorf salad, Chantilly cream on the pie, horseradish in the potatoes). Without the cultural reference point, I can see where they go flat.

And the lack of bread plates drove me BATTY... but at least I got bread which is more than I can say from when I ate at Keller's land-based Ad Hoc.

The Keller stuff is not being well received on the Odyssey, and I have been on now for 2 months. In that two months I have only heard positive remarks from a couple of people.....the majority avoid it. On large hosted tables you would be lucky to see one person order one course......the times I have ordered it, I have eaten very little of it. Remember the Odyssey has just finished a very long Grand cruise, so many people have had a lot of time to try it.......very few are going back for a second try. The Colonnade is half empty the nights TK is served there, and the Restaurant and Patio Grill are packed. Why aren't Seabourn getting the hint? Yes, jenidallas likes it........who else have made such positive comments?? Certainly are NOT hearing them on The Odyssey!

When I was on the Odyssey I had multiple experiences with the Keller Colonnade menus as well as his additions to the MDR menus.

For the time being I'm going to try to forget Mr. Kellers MDR additions as for me they took extra time (~20 minutes per dish) and most weren't actually cooked properly.

I found the bbq ribs to be probably worst example of baby backs I've ever been served. They weren't actually BBQd, the meat was overcooked/blown out and the rub was rather flavorless. Serving sizes were fine, but I only dined with one other person and they don't have an appetite anywhere near a linebacker.

The chop house theme I found preferable, more-so the second time around. Neither time did I receive meat anywhere near grey. However the first time the asparagus was past its prime. Actually the second time around everything seemed fresher and better prepared. For this menu I would have liked bigger portions for the cheese/bread and dessert. This was also when dining with one other person. I can't imagine what dining with a group would be like, especially if one or more of the group didn't eat like birds.

I like that Seabourn is trying new things, but I'm not sure Thomas Keller was the one they should have gone to. What works well on dry stable land when plating using micro tweezers doesn't go quite as well on a rock and rolling ship. The food in the MDR from Kellers menu still seemed very much a WIP. I liked the chop house menu, but wouldn't shed a tear if the baby backs were sent to one of Carnivals "Fun" ships. The setting in the Colonnade just seemed out of place (crew in jeans or jean like material) with guests wearing more formal clothing. I think that currently there is a lot of need for tweaks to the TK offerings and a lot of room for improvement. I don't see the point of paying French Laundry prices for an Ad-Hoc experience.

Emperor, I may agree that TK was not the right choice as at the FL, have dined twice, attention to detail and small numbers are contributing factors to the transcendent experience. Don't know Per Se, but read the the NYT and see it is, at the moment, on a downward slope.

Question-who would you have chosen for maximum Q rating and capabilities?

It's been a while, but can anyone recall if R2 had such issues when that first opened on-board? R2 is obviously very complex with their menus yet when I have eaten there it has been bang on. I think I am feeling quite luck that we are sailing on Quest for the Manaus-FLL trip yesterday and will have a dedicated TK restaurant in place of R2 leaving the Colonnade to happily go along with it's themed dinners.

I like that Seabourn is trying new things, but I'm not sure Thomas Keller was the one they should have gone to. What works well on dry stable land when plating using micro tweezers doesn't go quite as well on a rock and rolling ship.

Agree. So many other lines have gone with celebrity chef offerings that it seems to be a marketing ploy as much as anything.

The food in the MDR from Kellers menu still seemed very much a WIP.

Agree and the staff on Quest have admitted as much. Two points here...

1) Apparently a large contingent of the Keller folk will be coming on in Genoa for the dry dock (restaurant redesign/new galley retrofit) and additional training will occur at that time. They will also be onboard when the ship sails from Monte Carlo so it sounds like there is a focus on getting things right and being able to quickly tweak if they are not.

2) Right now there is a dedicated galley station in the kitchen on Keller nights (same galley area where special orders are prepared but separate) and there are three cooks on that station who are the only ones who prepare Keller dishes on the night that they are offered.

I liked the chop house menu, but wouldn't shed a tear if the baby backs were sent to one of Carnivals "Fun" ships. The setting in the Colonnade just seemed out of place (crew in jeans or jean like material) with guests wearing more formal clothing.

I agree on the "ribs belong on Carnival" part... that menu is just odd. As far as the jeans, the crew told us that they love the Ad Hoc night and like their uniforms. They did look out of place (and most of them looked years younger than they do in their polished black and white uniforms) but they seemed to be having fun. And to be fair, these are still very dark denim jeans and black tops so it isn't like they are in faded Levis and t-shirts.

I think that currently there is a lot of need for tweaks to the TK offerings and a lot of room for improvement.

Agree. I've tried 5 TK dishes in the MDR (2 appetizers, 1 vegetarian main, 2 desserts) and I've skipped more than that.

I did very much like most of what I've had. The caviar appetizer and both desserts were fabulous. The spring pea pasta appetizer and a vegetarian main were very good, but not something I would pay Thomas Keller prices for on land.

The presentation of the dishes is interesting... and sometimes misses the mark. The Creamsicle dessert (one even Keller critics have complimented here in previous threads) looks like a small dead pigeon on a piece of moldy green toast. (The dead pigeon was in fact vanilla ice cream and orange sorbet in a delicious dark chocolate shell on top of a pistachio olive oil cake... but that was not readily apparent from either the description on the menu OR on the plate!!!)

The food descriptions are VERY difficult to understand in terms of what will actually appear. I think Seabourn/Keller have missed the mark here completely. They are written the way a French Laundry or Per Se tasting menu is written. The difference is that you are not ordering dishes at one of those restaurants - you are eating what appears and the descriptions are merely a teaser of what might come with a server providing a much more detailed description of the dish as it is served. On Seabourn, that is not the serving style and the waiters are not announcing/revealing the dish so it should be presented in a more succinct and descriptive manner.

I don't see the point of paying French Laundry prices for an Ad-Hoc experience.

^ This x10,000. I think Seabourn majorly missed the boat with how they marketed the Thomas Keller partnership. All the press releases and marketing blurbs (and even the special preview event at Per Se) have all focused on the luxury side of Thomas Keller. The Ad Hoc offerings came out of left field and Seabourn has set an expectation that left others naturally confused by what the rebrand is about.

I think they would have been better off skipping the early push and waiting for the retrofits to roll this out properly (and appropriately) but hindsight is always 20/20.

I am hoping that the Ad Hoc menu expands to include fish and poultry, perhaps hopefully it already has. I tried it twice during its Beta stage in the fall, and both nights were beef. They substituted salmon for me but it wasn't designed for salmon so it didn't work.

Does anyone know if the Ad Hoc menu has expanded? We board Odyssey in thee days for a month, I'm looking forward to the TK additions, or at least the ones I can eat !

I am hoping that the Ad Hoc menu expands to include fish and poultry, perhaps hopefully it already has. I tried it twice during its Beta stage in the fall, and both nights were beef.

Still in Beta... both nights are beef.

Fried chicken is allegedly coming online after the galley retrofit. That's my favorite of the more casual Keller mains on land - he brines the chicken making it very juicy and tender.

I'm sure nothing screams "not luxury" more than fried chicken....

I have - so far - enjoyed the Thomas Keller dishes I have tried on board. I have not tried them all as I've tried to be selective based on my own personal taste as well as the assessments of some dishes that I've heard from both other guests and servers. (Example, almost all of the Colonnade staff told me "the rib eye night is MUCH better than the rib night"). ...................... The dinner the other night consisted of things I remember eating as a kid at Sunday suppers and the like ..............

Jenidallas, I think you have provided very thoughtful feedback on the TK menus. We are currently on Odyssey, and, because there is so much we love and don't report on, I am very hesitant to post negative feedback.

However, I think you hit the nail on the head with your "One last observation I had about the Colonnade offerings. They seem to be more popular with Americans than with those from other countries. I think because of the nature of the food at Ad Hoc (childhood favorites) that it misses the mark for a global audience."

Childhood favourites for a younger generation perhaps??? We (about to hit 70) are still cooking these dishes at home, and for the first time ever on Seabourn (after the ribs, baked beans and corn something (which tasted like the sweet scones mentioned earlier) I felt I could have done a better job of it at home.

Emperor, I may agree that TK was not the right choice as at the FL, have dined twice, attention to detail and small numbers are contributing factors to the transcendent experience. Don't know Per Se, but read the the NYT and see it is, at the moment, on a downward slope.

Question-who would you have chosen for maximum Q rating and capabilities?

That's a difficult question to answer. What works well on stable land may not do so well on rough seas. What works when you can walk across the road to pick you vegetables and fruit won't work at sea. Further what works even in the US may not work when things have to be shipped to a foreign port. I recall people not caring for Charlie Palmers dishes (or were they just tired of them at that point?) and seem to recall Todd English got mixed reviews. The only top tier chef that I keep hearing good things about his shipboard venture is Nobu Matsuhisa on Crystal. Ideally a choice would be a chef willing to say do a round the world cruise so they know how to deal with the always available as well as what can be sourced locally. Perhaps a different approach would be to bring on board regional guest chefs like they did with Sam Choy.

The thing is at the cost of what they are charging and possibly what they are paying for their 'TK franchise' they should be able to employ a Michelin star level chef for each ship who can actually produce an innovative menu based on what is available.

Just read the 2016 quarter results for Carnival and they have apparently spent $8 million more this quarter than in the same 2015 quarter on food!

It is not clear to me that the refurbished R2 on Quest will be the location for the Ad Hoc offering currently appearing from time to time in the Colonnade. According to what has been published R2 will become a grill which will also occupy most of the additional specialist restaurant on the Encore class ships which will have included within a separate cocktail bar area. Its description and furnishing doesn’t seem to accord with what the offering or style of service is at the moment in the Colonnade and may be the Ad Hoc offering will continue there. The sooner this is clarified by Seabourn the better.

It is not clear to me that the refurbished R2 on Quest will be the location for the Ad Hoc offering currently appearing from time to time in the Colonnade. According to what has been published R2 will become a grill which will also occupy most of the additional specialist restaurant on the Encore class ships which will have included within a separate cocktail bar area. Its description and furnishing doesn’t seem to accord with what the offering or style of service is at the moment in the Colonnade and may be the Ad Hoc offering will continue there. The sooner this is clarified by Seabourn the better.

Agree... I've heard three different versions of what the restaurant might be and whether or not the MDR or Colonnade offerings will go away.

I had three more Keller offerings tonight (I tell you, I'm doing this purely for the good of research). One was outstanding. Two were bleh (as in I sent them back half-eaten and would not order them again).

So my tally is this:

Keller MDR:

2 great starters, 2 great desserts

1 passable starter, 1 passable (vegetarian) entrée

1 no-thank-you (vegetarian) entrée, 1 no-thank-you dessert

Also 1 starter, 3 entrees, and 1 dessert that I was unwilling to even try based on the description of the dish and/or feedback from others.

Keller Patio Grill:

2 very good items (burger, hot dog)

Keller Colonnade:

1 very good Ad Hoc meal

1 no-thank-you Ad Hoc meal (unwilling to even try based on the descriptions of the dishes AND the feedback from others).

So that's hardly me being biased. All in all, some real wins but also several misses. I'm probably lucky the wins came earlier in the cruise or I may have been more reluctant to try the Keller fare at all.

Childhood favourites for a younger generation perhaps??? We (about to hit 70) are still cooking these dishes at home, and for the first time ever on Seabourn (after the ribs, baked beans and corn something (which tasted like the sweet scones mentioned earlier) I felt I could have done a better job of it at home.

Definitely. I don't know how old Chef Keller is, but it is he who uses the "childhood" when talking about Ad Hoc.

I definitely recall Waldorf salad from the 70s when I was younger (much younger). I am older the then current "chicken nugget" generation... I was more the macaroni and cheese generation. ;)

I am on the same cruise as Jenidallas and we have had the pleasure of dining together as well as discussing the Keller offerings.

Bottom line. So far it is good but not great. So the jury is still out. I think we need to wait and see how TK works in a dedicated restaurant setting, give it six months and then take a check point.

I dined in R2 tonight. It was also good but not great. The status quo is not always better (although, overall, the food has been outstanding on this cruise). Time to take a step back and give TK a chance. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Time will tell.

Still in Beta... both nights are beef.

 

Fried chicken is allegedly coming online after the galley retrofit. That's my favorite of the more casual Keller mains on land - he brines the chicken making it very juicy and tender.

 

I'm sure nothing screams "not luxury" more than fried chicken....

I wonder why there's still only two menus for Ad Hoc? It's been six months. I hope they offer Ad Hoc only twice per cruis then so at least I can still enjoy the Collonade for dinner occasionally.

jenidallas, and others who have commented, your views on the TK food are very helpful to those of us who will be sailing fairly soon. I have made notes!

I am sure jeni you are right that the Ad Hoc type of food is more appreciated by Americans, and also possibly by those under, shall we say, 60. We are UK people, well over 60, but will certainly give some of these dishes a go, and actually knowing in advance what the 'style' is will avoid any surprises. I can readily imagine some of the rather stodgy oldies not liking it at all. I still think that probably TK has cost the company more than he was worth.

Look forward to reading more of your news in due course.

jenidallas, and others who have commented, your views on the TK food are very helpful to those of us who will be sailing fairly soon. I have made notes!

 

I am sure jeni you are right that the Ad Hoc type of food is more appreciated by Americans, and also possibly by those under, shall we say, 60. We are UK people, well over 60, but will certainly give some of these dishes a go, and actually knowing in advance what the 'style' is will avoid any surprises. I can readily imagine some of the rather stodgy oldies not liking it at all. I still think that probably TK has cost the company more than he was worth.

 

Look forward to reading more of your news in due course.

lincslady, my top tip for the "family style TK" is to dine at a table with only someone you know really well. We witnessed one poor couple, after saying "hello" as they passed the table of a couple they'd met earlier that day, being then asked to join that couple. How do you say no? I'd start practising now!! They have since told us they dare not step into the Colonnade again on a TK night.

I will be glad when it is only served in the 2 and we will be able to avoid it :D

Laylam - thanks for the tip. We do tend to dine a deux, partly due to a bit of deafness, and the Ad Hoc type of service would definitely mean us asking for just a two. Imagine having to dine with 2 enormous people who grabbed all the food!

What no one seems to know definitively yet is whether the refurbished Rest. 2 is for the 'posh' TK dishes, and the MDR the original SB dishes, with the casual TK stuff maybe 2 or 3 times a week in the Colonnade - this strikes me as the best way for it to be organised, and it would be good to have once again more menu choices in the MDR. Maybe jenidallas will be able to find out before she arrives in Monte Carlo. I am afraid I think the TK casual will stay in the Colonnade, as the most suitable setting.

I have never dinied in the Colonnade at night but on my upcoming cruise I will be tempted to at least try one TK night just to see for myself. I very much appreciate all of the detailed reports on TK from posters on recent cruises, especially Jenidallas's we'll be balanced, detailed posts. Of course the bottom line is it does not matter what others liked and did not like of the TK dinners, but rather what my DH and I think as everyone's tastes are different. So I will go into the whole thing well armed with a substantial amount of valuable information and an open mind. And if for some reason there is something not to our taste I will be sure not to shot the messenger. I have often been truly embarrassed on a few cruises to witness the poor behavior of a fellow passenger berate the waiter for a problem with the food.

As to Seabourn's TK endeavor I have to say while I applaud them for not sitting in their laurels and trying to find ways to enhance the cruise experience (ok, the cynic in me will also say and to try to entice new passengers) I am surprised by this. By most accounts the Charlie Palmer was a miserable failure -- and a costly one at that . I was never so happy as when that partnership ended. So either SB management is suffering from amnesia or they have a slew of new managers who were not around when the Charlie Palmer dining was introduced and removed. It seems to me that there are areas where the reported large sums of money could more effectively have been employed. I am a big TK fan, but as others have stated have concerns about transferring what makes dining in his dining in restaurants wonderful to the world of cruise ship dining. Nonetheless, I am very much looking forward to trying it on our June cruise. And if nothing else I will be thrilled there is a supply of Humboldt Fog cheese on board and will try to commandeer some for my cheese plate.[emoji4][emoji893]