Halal meat onboard

It's pure hypocrisy to not care about how an animal lives, but to care how it dies.

It's also pure hypocrisy to not care how an animal dies when you eat at Wetherspoons, Nando's, your local pub, the restaurant you went to for your works Xmas do but to suddenly care how an animal dies when on a P&O ship as soon as you hear the meat is vaguely Muslim in some way.

The people on here complaining about it aren't lobbying for better food labelling everywhere, only if it's halal and only if it's on the good old British p&o. It's no coincidence that someone mentioned the Daily Mail.

Reminds me of that "disgusted couple" on Catherine Tate

Or the "Little Britain" sketch.....Lesbian Jam

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I eat meat. Between Halal and non-Halal, I would choose non-Halal. Between Kosher and non-Kosher, I would choose non-Kosher. However, if only Halal or Kosher was available, I would happily eat it.

It's pure hypocrisy to not care about how an animal lives, but to care how it dies.

/quote]

I agree not caring about life but caring about death is inconsistent - but it would be pointless asking P&O staff about an animal's life, while they CAN tell one about its death. So asking about its death is not hypocritical at all - its just recognising the realities.

It's pure hypocrisy to not care about how an animal lives, but to care how it dies.

/quote]

I agree not caring about life but caring about death is inconsistent - but it would be pointless asking P&O staff about an animal's life, while they CAN tell one about its death. So asking about its death is not hypocritical at all - its just recognising the realities.

 

 

Of course p&o can tell you about its life. They know whether the animals are free range, grass fed etc versus factory farmed. Any retailer knows as much about the life of the animal as it does the death.

 

If people really are upset about the fact it's halal because they truly care about animal welfare they'd be asking which country their meat is from, whether it's outdoor bred, is it grain fed, caged etc etc. If the only thing there's upset about is the method of slaughter then I'd argue they aren't really concerned about animal welfare at all, that's just an excuse to cover the real reason i.e. that it's halal and all the baggage that word entails these days.

 

 

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It's also pure hypocrisy to not care how an animal dies when you eat at Wetherspoons, Nando's, your local pub, the restaurant you went to for your works Xmas do but to suddenly care how an animal dies when on a P&O ship as soon as you hear the meat is vaguely Muslim in some way.

 

The people on here complaining about it aren't lobbying for better food labelling everywhere, only if it's halal and only if it's on the good old British p&o.

Do you have any evidence at all for suggesting those asking on P&O don't also ask at Wetherspoon's etc? Or that they aren't lobbying for better labelling everywhere? (it wouldn't make much sense to use a P&O forum to lobby for better labelling in Tesco, so perhaps they just don't mention it here).

 

 

Of course p&o can tell you about its life. They know whether the animals are free range, grass fed etc versus factory farmed. Any retailer knows as much about the life of the animal as it does the death.

 

If people really are upset about the fact it's halal because they truly care about animal welfare they'd be asking which country their meat is from, whether it's outdoor bred, is it grain fed, caged etc etc. If the only thing there's upset about is the method of slaughter then I'd argue they aren't really concerned about animal welfare at all, that's just an excuse to cover the real reason i.e. that it's halal and all the baggage that word entails these days.

So your view is that "of course" a P&O waiter could tell a diner all these things - not just the slaughter method - if asked?

So your view is that "of course" a P&O waiter could tell a diner all these things - not just the slaughter method - if asked?

 

 

Yes. Absolutely. And if they couldn't they'd only need to ask the chef.

 

 

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Do you have any evidence at all for suggesting those asking on P&O don't also ask at Wetherspoon's etc? Or that they aren't lobbying for better labelling everywhere? (it wouldn't make much sense to use a P&O forum to lobby for better labelling in Tesco, so perhaps they just don't mention it here).

No. You're right. I don't have evidence that they aren't lobbying wetherspoons you are right. But you don't have evidence that they are so that's a bit moot.

The evidence that we do have is that animal welfare is being used as the reason to oppose halal food - if animal welfare was the real reason you'd expect those same people to be lobbying for higher welfare meat (including the life of the animal) on p&o. But that is suspiciously missing. It's just the halal part people are objecting to.

Curious isn't it [emoji848]

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No. You're right. I don't have evidence that they aren't lobbying wetherspoons you are right. But you don't have evidence that they are so that's a bit moot.

 

The evidence that we do have is that animal welfare is being used as the reason to oppose halal food - if animal welfare was the real reason you'd expect those same people to be lobbying for higher welfare meat (including the life of the animal) on p&o. But that is suspiciously missing. It's just the halal part people are objecting to.

 

Curious isn't it [emoji848]

 

 

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I hope you are not suggesting that people who oppose halal or any other kind of slaughter on the grounds of animal welfare are all racist. About 10% of halal meat comes from animals that have not been stunned prior to slaughter - in other words have been slaughtered in away that would otherwise be illegal in the UK because of the suffering caused. Opposing this is not a matter of racism but of simple humanity.

I hope you are not suggesting that people who oppose halal or any other kind of slaughter on the grounds of animal welfare are all racist. About 10% of halal meat comes from animals that have not been stunned prior to slaughter - in other words have been slaughtered in away that would otherwise be illegal in the UK because of the suffering caused. Opposing this is not a matter of racism but of simple humanity.

If they are genuinely concerned about animal welfare all the way from the farm to the plate and that slaughter is just one aspect of that then no I wouldn't suggest that prejudice is the root of their objection.

However I am indeed suggesting that if their ONLY welfare issues with the food is that it is Halal then yes there is a possibility that racism is playing a part.

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I'm bothered that P&O didn't give people the whole story. But we know P&O aren't transparent.

If you don't want halal for animal welfare reasons but you're someone who also buys non-free range meat and battery hen eggs, I'm afraid your argument is invalidated because non-free range animals have suffered all their life for your meat but you're bothered about an animal "suffering" (even when it was stunned) for 2 minutes before it dies. P&O are NOT discriminating. Are they treating people unjustly because of their race? No. if you wanted to know that badly about the information about the animal and are that bothered about halal you should've asked.

I do understand the frustration of P&O not giving you the full picture if you don't want to eat halal for animal welfare reasons, or any other reasons (even though the animals do not suffer all too much and if it wasn't halal it would've suffered all its life anyway) it's your best bet that you ask.

Dan

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In 2014 almost 1, 400 000 animals were slaughtered without stunning to satisfy the adherents to halaal. This is illegal and the RSPCA deem it as cruel.

For someone to justify this method of slaughter is unbelievable.

In 2014 almost 1, 400 000 animals were slaughtered without stunning to satisfy the adherents to halaal. This is illegal and the RSPCA deem it as cruel.

 

For someone to justify this method of slaughter is unbelievable.

Over 80% of halal meat in the U.K. Is stunned before killing.

As a Muslim slaughtering animals for halal meat, you must also minimise suffering to the animal religiously - it would be a sin to cause exaggerated, needless suffering.

So even the meat that wasn't stunned, the slaughterers would've put care in to ensure the animal isn't suffering needlessly and halal is still humane if carried out properly IMO.

But if halal (or any other descriptions of food) was that important to anybody, it all boils down to you asking whether it is halal, free range etc or not.

Dan

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Since when did a religion become a race?

Since always. Think about anti-semitism for instance. Jewish people are considered an ethnic group as well as a religious group.

Technically Muslim people aren't an ethnic group, but there are ethnic groups more likely to be Muslim so you'd be pretty pedantic to argue otherwise.

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I always laugh when people object to halal meat on the grounds of animal welfare. If they were that concerned, they'd give up meat altogether! The same people rarely object to kosher food, probably because they haven't read about that in the Daily Mail. That said, I do agree that a simple statement on the menu to the effect that "all our meat is halal and kosher compliant" wouldn't be too much of an ask and then at least people couldn't complain that they didn't know.

Since always. Think about anti-semitism for instance. Jewish people are considered an ethnic group as well as a religious group.

 

Technically Muslim people aren't an ethnic group, but there are ethnic groups more likely to be Muslim so you'd be pretty pedantic to argue otherwise.

 

 

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Religion is a choice, your race is decided by your DNA before you are born.

You can change religion (under penalty of death in some cases) but not your race and that's not being pedantic, that's fact.

Technically in Europe Muslims are an ethnic group:

"ethnic"

adjective: ethnic

1. relating to a population subgroup (within a larger or dominant national or cultural group) with a common national or cultural tradition.

"ethnic and cultural rights and traditions"

I always laugh when people object to halal meat on the grounds of animal welfare. If they were that concerned, they'd give up meat altogether! The same people rarely object to kosher food, probably because they haven't read about that in the Daily Mail. That said, I do agree that a simple statement on the menu to the effect that "all our meat is halal and kosher compliant" wouldn't be too much of an ask and then at least people couldn't complain that they didn't know.

I object to it because its thrust upon me without anyone asking if I mind or would like a choice.

It would be a different matter if the shoe was on the other foot no doubt.

 

 

 

Technically in Europe Muslims are an ethnic group:

 

 

 

"ethnic"

 

 

 

adjective: ethnic

 

 

 

1. relating to a population subgroup (within a larger or dominant national or cultural group) with a common national or cultural tradition.

 

"ethnic and cultural rights and traditions"

 

 

 

 

.

Ergo, anyone with a prejudice against Muslims would be classed as racist.

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