Brilliance itinerary change- Kusadasi gone

Just had an email from our TA forwarding on email from RC advising that Kusadasi had been dropped from all 2017 itineraries. Ours ( 30 th June from Barcelona) has been replaced with Mykonos. I have been to Kusadasi several times before ( Mykonos too) and my first reaction was that it makes no real difference. But DH has just pointed out that with no non EU port now on the itinerary , for sailings from Barcelona RC will have to charge Spanish Vat on all sales/ services on board. Non EU citizens will I think be able to claim this back at the end of the cruise but the rest of us will have to pay much more for purchases on board.

Existing Thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2458891

Existing Thread:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2458891

But that previous thread does not give this information about VAT. It's new info. :)

This may be old news to some of you but we received an email today advising that Royal has cancelled the port of Kusadasi (Ephesus) from all of its itineraries for this year. This is due to "the current unpredictability of Turkey". I'm sure some people will be very disappointed but on our Rhapsody cruise we will now visit Kotor, Montenegro and we are very happy with this new port.

Running thread:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2460724

Thanks. I'll check it out.

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But DH has just pointed out that with no non EU port now on the itinerary , for sailings from Barcelona RC will have to charge Spanish Vat on all sales/ services on board. Non EU citizens will I think be able to claim this back at the end of the cruise but the rest of us will have to pay much more for purchases on board.

Will be on Brilliance on May 13.

On land travel, we submit the VAT refund form at the airport before our flight back to US. Could it be that we will be doing the same at Barcelona airport?

Just had an email from our TA forwarding on email from RC advising that Kusadasi had been dropped from all 2017 itineraries. Ours ( 30 th June from Barcelona) has been replaced with Mykonos. I have been to Kusadasi several times before ( Mykonos too) and my first reaction was that it makes no real difference. But DH has just pointed out that with no non EU port now on the itinerary , for sailings from Barcelona RC will have to charge Spanish Vat on all sales/ services on board. Non EU citizens will I think be able to claim this back at the end of the cruise but the rest of us will have to pay much more for purchases on board.

Greece IS a member of the EU, as are France, Italy and Malta - all countries on your June 30 Brilliance cruise from Barcelona (and Spain also is a member of the EU). So your posting makes no sense.

Just had an email from our TA forwarding on email from RC advising that Kusadasi had been dropped from all 2017 itineraries. Ours ( 30 th June from Barcelona) has been replaced with Mykonos. I have been to Kusadasi several times before ( Mykonos too) and my first reaction was that it makes no real difference. But DH has just pointed out that with no non EU port now on the itinerary , for sailings from Barcelona RC will have to charge Spanish Vat on all sales/ services on board. Non EU citizens will I think be able to claim this back at the end of the cruise but the rest of us will have to pay much more for purchases on board.

We're on the same cruise. (Nice having some fellow scots onboard with me). Living in the US these days, I guess I'll apply for the VAT refund at BCN before flying home.

As for the Kusadasi port being swapped out for Mykonos, fine with me but DW being a teacher she'll miss seeing Turkey but was earlier informed that there's some history on Mykonos as well.

Just had an email from our TA forwarding on email from RC advising that Kusadasi had been dropped from all 2017 itineraries. Ours ( 30 th June from Barcelona) has been replaced with Mykonos. I have been to Kusadasi several times before ( Mykonos too) and my first reaction was that it makes no real difference. But DH has just pointed out that with no non EU port now on the itinerary , for sailings from Barcelona RC will have to charge Spanish Vat on all sales/ services on board. Non EU citizens will I think be able to claim this back at the end of the cruise but the rest of us will have to pay much more for purchases on board.

We are on the cruise on brilliance just before you from Barcelona...Though we do stop at a non EU port (Kotor) so avoid the full spanish tax for the whole cruise. We also got the deluxe package as part of this cruise and if you did also then nothing to worry about drink wise unless drink is above the limit. Also...Probably best to prebook specialty restaurants beforehand and and ship based tours to avoid extra tax being added while buying onboard!

Greece IS a member of the EU, as are France, Italy and Malta - all countries on your June 30 Brilliance cruise from Barcelona (and Spain also is a member of the EU). So your posting makes no sense.

It makes complete sense. For a cruise to be non-VAT eligible it needs to stop at a non-EU port. As you state (as does the OP) this cruise no longer stops at a non-EU port so the whole cruise now becomes subject to VAT for on board purchases. The original itinerary included Kusadasi which being in Turkey is outside the EU, avoiding this issue.

Non-EU citizens can only claim back VAT on items 'exported', so this will not allow claim back for any consumables purchased on board (drinks, restaurants, etc) if VAT is charged on these (the rules are too complicated to go into, but not everything carries VAT on a cruise - among other things it depends which elements are considered part of the 'passenger transfer' element which, generally, is either zero or lower rated for VAT in the EU).

:')

It makes complete sense. For a cruise to be non-VAT eligible it needs to stop at a non-EU port. As you state (as does the OP) this cruise no longer stops at a non-EU port so the whole cruise now becomes subject to VAT for on board purchases. The original itinerary included Kusadasi which being in Turkey is outside the EU, avoiding this issue.Non-EU citizens can only claim back VAT on items 'exported', so this will not allow claim back for any consumables purchased on board (drinks, restaurants, etc) if VAT is charged on these (the rules are too complicated to go into, but not everything carries VAT on a cruise - among other things it depends which elements are considered part of the 'passenger transfer' element which, generally, is either zero or lower rated for VAT in the EU).

So, I just got off the phone with RC.

As of right now, there will be no VAT added to any service/sale on anything on board once the ship set sails from Barcelona.

While in Barcelona they are required by law to charge VAT. This has not changed.

If there is any change to this policy they will send me an email. So I was told.

:')

 

So, I just got off the phone with RC.

As of right now, there will be no VAT added to any service/sale on anything on board once the ship set sails from Barcelona.

While in Barcelona they are required by law to charge VAT. This has not changed.

If there is any change to this policy they will send me an email. So I was told.

Unfortunately the sales rep you spoke to has no knowledge of EU VAT/IVA regulations. As this cruise does not exit the EU it WILL be subject to EU VAT regulations throughout - it is EU law that applies here. That doesn't mean everything sold onboard will definitely have an extra % added as there are a lot of exemptions and different rates applicable, but EU regulations will be applied.

Unfortunately the sales rep you spoke to has no knowledge of EU VAT/IVA regulations. As this cruise does not exit the EU it WILL be subject to EU VAT regulations throughout - it is EU law that applies here. That doesn't mean everything sold onboard will definitely have an extra % added as there are a lot of exemptions and different rates applicable, but EU regulations will be applied.

I know nothing about EU VAT/IVA but I am wondering how any country's tax can apply when you are in international waters. If this is possible wouldn't where the ship is registered have the say of taxes.

I'm not trying to start an argument, (as I said I don't know) my question is, is this something that is going to make a big difference? And do we know for sure this is what is going to happen?

As for the sales rep., he told me he knew nothing about the tax so, I was on hold for about half a hour while he checked

We don't buy that much onboard, but it does make sense to pre-purchase drink packages, shore excursions, and dining plans before leaving home. I don't like to get that big bill at the end of the cruise anyway, so I usually pre-purchase as much as I can.

We will be on the Jewel in October. Mykonos was already on our itinerary. Kusadasi was replaced with Rhodes for us, so we will also be impacted by the VAT tax.

We don't buy that much onboard, but it does make sense to pre-purchase drink packages, shore excursions, and dining plans before leaving home. I don't like to get that big bill at the end of the cruise anyway, so I usually pre-purchase as much as I can.

 

We will be on the Jewel in October. Mykonos was already on our itinerary. Kusadasi was replaced with Rhodes for us, so we will also be impacted by the VAT tax.

This taxation issue applies only under Spanish law but not from other EU departure countries.

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When come back to port, the receiving country tax laws apply in regarding to importation taxes since that is what your doing. No different from a company importing goods for sell into receiving country.

For example:

If I buy a bottle of liquor in the Caribbean and bring it into the United States, as long as i stay under the limit then I am not subject to additional taxes. However, if I go over the limit then I am subject to the additional tax, based on US tariff/tax rules.

This is no different than if Appleton Estates brings in Jamaican produced rum for sale in the US. They are subject to tariffs/taxes at both the Federal and State level. This has been going on for hundreds of years.

I know nothing about EU VAT/IVA but I am wondering how any country's tax can apply when you are in international waters. If this is possible wouldn't where the ship is registered have the say of taxes.

I'm not trying to start an argument, (as I said I don't know) my question is, is this something that is going to make a big difference? And do we know for sure this is what is going to happen?

 

As for the sales rep., he told me he knew nothing about the tax so, I was on hold for about half a hour while he checked

When come back to port, the receiving country tax laws apply in regarding to importation taxes since that is what your doing. No different from a company importing goods for sell into receiving country.

 

For example:

 

If I buy a bottle of liquor in the Caribbean and bring it into the United States, as long as i stay under the limit then I am not subject to additional taxes. However, if I go over the limit then I am subject to the additional tax, based on US tariff/tax rules.

 

This is no different than if Appleton Estates brings in Jamaican produced rum for sale in the US. They are subject to tariffs/taxes at both the Federal and State level. This has been going on for hundreds of years.

Thank you, now I understand.

So anything I drink at sea will not be taxed.

We were impacted by this on Celebrity Equinox last May and I think it is indeed the case that this is a Spanish issue for ships departing from and returning to a Spanish port, without calling at any non EU port.

Spanish VAT at 21% was definitely added to all items sold in the ships shops, all photos and photo packages for instance.Dont think it affected speciality restaurants and drinks packages , tours etc. ,anything I suppose for onboard use or consumption so to speak.

The complexities that Spanish customs were going to involve meant however that that no bottles of alcohol at all were on sale on the ship . They just cleared the whole section into storage so that it was not even on display.

Incidentally this was when I realised for the first time that the Channel Islands are not in the EU! Met a couple from there who were going to be able therefore to reclaim the VAT on their purchases.

Johnjen,where were you originally from in Scotland? We actually have a reverse situation in our family. My sisters husband is from California and was originally in the US navy. He retired after 22 years in the navy and has lived and worked in Scotland for the last 13 years.They are not on this cruise however but my daughter and son in law with their 3 boys aged 11,9 and 6 will be. The 11 year old plays the bagpipes ( but doubt he will have them with him!!!)

Johnjen,where were you originally from in Scotland? We actually have a reverse situation in our family. My sisters husband is from California and was originally in the US navy. He retired after 22 years in the navy and has lived and worked in Scotland for the last 13 years.They are not on this cruise however but my daughter and son in law with their 3 boys aged 11,9 and 6 will be. The 11 year old plays the bagpipes ( but doubt he will have them with him!!!)

Glasgow (Parkhead). I left there in 1970 with my parents and brother, who is seven years younger than me. I retired from the Navy after 20 years but I'm working with DHS as an analyst these days. Join the roll call, we have a few in there and looking forward to meeting you and your family on board!

As for the discussion here, I sent the following to RCL to get the answer. I'm completely not in the know of any of this so I really need all of this clarified and in writing. Glad no one is getting into a heated discussion over this, but this rule, if true, is crazy....

"Discussion ensues on cruise critic that our cruise due to the non-eu port cancellation to Kusadasi Turkey, Brilliance is now subjected to a 21% Spanish VAT because we are leaving from and returning to a Spanish port. This applies to all drinks onboard and everything bought onboard. Can you please verify if, in fact, a Spanish VAT is applied for the duration of the cruise? Thanks, please email me back. Trying to clear this up. If so, does this affect American travelers? And, if so, are we subjected to a refund? We are non-EU, of course."

When I get the official response, I'll post it. If they say no on the Spanish VAT and we discover otherwise once on board, you'd better believe I'll be taking a copy of it along with us and use it as a waiver since it's an official notification from the cruise line.

One question.

If the Spanish VAT does apply on board for the duration of the cruise - if I buy a drink package, is that all inclusive or will they still hit me with a Spanish VAT bill on top of the drink package, if I buy it before the cruise?

When I get the official response, I'll post it. If they say no on the Spanish VAT and we discover otherwise once on board, you'd better believe I'll be taking a copy of it along with us and use it as a waiver since it's an official notification from the cruise line.

Please do. I will also bring a copy on our sailing. Just in case there are conflicting versions.

Johnjen, don't think it applies to drinks onboard as they are for consumption during the voyage.Likewise food and drink packages. It would however I think apply to bottles of alcohol sold by RC which would be delivered to take home at the end of the voyage which I think was the reason Celebrity simply cleared the drink store last year.

Biggest problem would be that every item sold in onboard shops would be subject to the VAT ,including photos .