Passenger behaviour in the Spa aboard Seabourn Encore

An incident occurred a few days ago which I have left unreported until now pending the outcome of remedial action. It raises questions regarding passenger behaviour to fellow passengers, and also staff.

Emily (16 year old daughter) was having a quick hair trim in the Spa. Mrs Able Seaman H was sitting with her. There is some commotion outside and a passenger storms in shouting the odds at the person cutting Emily's hair. Apparently she's been waiting outside for too long and is unhappy. The male stylist apologises to Ems & Sharon but the woman continued the abuse. Heated conversation ensues including the immortal words uttered by angry passenger, "she's only a child". Presumably the inference being that as such Emily should be removed from the salon so angry woman can be attended to at once. Eventually angry woman insisted the stylist went out to the reception area and my 2 ladies were left to piece together what had just happened.

Sharon was a bit stunned as was Emily. Stylist comes back in, apologises and quickly finishes off her hair.

On being told what happened I was a bit angry but slept on it. The next morning I went to the Spa and started to explain that I wasn't happy. The assistant manager said he was there at the time dealing with another client and heard the incident. He said he was surprised (pleasantly) that Sharon hadn't waded in and got involved and agreed it was unacceptable behaviour. I said that my complaint wasn't in any way aimed at the staff (at the time) but more the other passenger. I didn't know how such things were dealt with on Seabourn but clearly felt a line had been crossed. He agreed and promised to discuss the matter with the Spa manager. He said a resolution would be found by the end of the day.

I said I wasn't asking for the passenger to be removed from the ship but I felt something had to be done. An apology from the passenger would have been the best outcome. What the Spa do to protect their staff from abuse is entirely their prerogative but they have a duty of care to ensure passengers aren't abused in any way.

Several days later and nothing has been heard from the Spa.

Seabourn is a very inclusive cruise line. They cater for people of all ages including frail elderly passengers, people in non traditional relationships, different races, colours, cultures, religions and nationalities. They cater for people with disabilities and mobility issues. That's part of what makes Seabourn great, you travel with an eclectic mix of human beings who contribute to some great memories and much laughter.

One bad apple doesn't condemn the orchard but robust policies do need to be in place to protect people. Burying your head in the sand hoping the problem with go away isn't the answer. I'm a big lad and could easily have tracked down the passenger myself but that would only lead to further confrontation and amplify the problem. A protective father isn't always the best diplomat.

It saddens me that the Spa management team don't have either the courage, time or desire to ensure users of the facility don't suffer abuse.

As it is we continue to enjoy our cruise and presumably the passenger continues to abuse crew and passengers alike.

Henry

Good grief! Seabourn MUST make this right for your family.

There are "entitled " folk on every cruise and cruise line although I suspect you find more on luxury lines.

They can't force her to apologize. They should blacklist her from future cruises and give your daughter a nice spa credit

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.... They can't force her to apologize. They should blacklist her from future cruises and give your daughter a nice spa credit

Sure they can. They can tell her to apologize and not to repeat such behavior or she'll be put off at the next port. Frankly Seabourn would be within its rights to put her off immediately without any warning. Verbal assault of their staff and other passengers should not be tolerated.

From Seabourn's cruise contract:

Carrier may without liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit, except as provided herein, disembark or refuse to embark You, confine You in a stateroom, quarantine You, restrain You, change Your accommodations or disembark You at any time if, in the sole opinion of Carrier, the Captain or any doctor, You or any minor or other person in Your care during the Cruise and/or Land Trip(s), are unfit for any reason for the Cruise and/or Land Trip(s), or Your presence might be detrimental to Your health, comfort or safety or that of any other person, or in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason.

In short, the Captain is God on a ship and this silly woman had better watch her step.

Our experience, with 18 Seabourn cruises and more than 440 days, to include the 2014 WC, is that Seabourn has a policy of non involvement. On the WC, there was a passenger on board for around 90 days that had a severe body odor problem, who came to the gym nearly ever day. It was so bad that passengers would have to stop exercising next to him. I informed the spa manager of the issue - the only thing done was that they would use room spray after he left. I also brought the issue up to the HD - nothing else was done. It's obvious they do not wish to offend anyone and I can understand that, but in certain circumstances, management involvement is necessary. The problem/issue was noted by numerous other passengers, not only in the gym, but on the shuttle bus and tours. To me, a simple comment to the passenger would be to say - no offense intended, but several passengers have told us that you might have body odor issue that is affecting your fellow passengers. The experience that Henry's daughter and wife experienced is no different and certainly warrants management's involvement. That said, I do recollect an instance in which that disembarked a mother and son for smoking pot.

Just my thoughts.

This is a tricky area for most hospitality operators. They are loathed to get involved in a dispute between two guests and experience tells them that there are usually two sides to every story. Standards of behaviour and good manners can be very different between different nations, ages and socio economic groups.Tipping, standing in line, please and thank yous, use of mobile devices, over refreshed guests etc etc can raise the hackles when this is just normal behaviour for some individuals.

I can understand why the poster was irritated and concerned(the involvement of his daughter) but no one died, there was no personal injuryand there are more subtle ways of causing discomfort to people whose behaviour is consistently poor than expecting action to be taken by Seabourn.

In my experience standards of guest behaviour on Seabourn are top draw and most guests are more than happy to apologise for behaviour which causes distress to another.

The crew and management have plenty of other things to do.

My point is that the Spa manager has done absolutely nothing. Even if she didn't want to confront angry woman have the common sense to make contact with me / wife / daughter, follow up my complaint and if necessary lie. Say she's spoken with angry woman who realises in the cold light of day her actions were inappropriate etc. etc. We have all done things which we later felt embarrassed about. Dealt with promptly this could have been nipped in the bud.

As it is the matter will now be escalated to Seabourn Seattle when there was probably no need had the Spa team done their job properly. We still have time on the ship.

I think the Spa manager has a duty to inform angry guest that her behaviour has caused upset to an innocent party who was merely paying to use the Spa facilities in the normal way. We haven't made further use of the Spa and won't on this cruise. Even our club benefits have been used elsewhere.

Henry :)

Post number 7.....spot on.

It wouldn't kill them to issue a $100 spa credit. Anything beyond a spa credit ain't going to happen. Seattle.....are you kidding?

I'm going to be unpopular with my response.

How does the OP know the issue wasn't addressed at some level? There is and should be a level of privacy for all--even the rude.

Also, if my husband decided to involve himself in a situation like this I'd be beyond angry. As a wife and mother (and now a grandmother) present during this unholy display of entitlement by the rude woman, I'd handle the situation or not as I felt appropriate. I didn't hear that the daughter was brought to tears nor the mother full of angst over the incident and unable to put it behind her.

In the timeless words from Disney's "Frozen"---"Let it go, let it go..."

I'm going to be unpopular with my response.

 

How does the OP know the issue wasn't addressed at some level? There is and should be a level of privacy for all--even the rude.

 

Also, if my husband decided to involve himself in a situation like this I'd be beyond angry. As a wife and mother (and now a grandmother) present during this unholy display of entitlement by the rude woman, I'd handle the situation or not as I felt appropriate. I didn't hear that the daughter was brought to tears nor the mother full of angst over the incident and unable to put it behind her.

 

In the timeless words from Disney's "Frozen"---"Let it go, let it go..."

Yep, let it go...Seabourn is not going to do anything-a Spa credit would be the best you could hope for.

I am sorry that your daughter and wife had that very unpleasant experience. Unfortunately in life we occasionally have unexpected confrontations but certainly don't expect them in the spa of a Seabourn ship. It is supposed to be a place of relaxation and pampering!

I guess we don't know the circumstances of the "angry woman", how long she had been waiting etc etc but frankly, nothing justifies the rudeness she displayed. If she had a legitimate complaint she could have dealt with it in a much more appropriate way, direct with the spa personnel herself and out of earshot and visibility of other passengers. The fact that she asked the stylist to go out to reception may indicate she saw the error of her ways and took the conversation to a separate area, albeit after the damage had been done.

In any event, you and/or your wife (and daughter) have every reason to feel upset about the incident. I would be inclined to approach the Spa Manager again and ask how they have resolved the matter. It is possible that something has been done that you would not be aware of (although part of conflict resolution is usually that the person raising the complaint would be given some information about what has been done - even if it is just that the matter has been dealt with). Perhaps the Spa Manager doesn't have much experience with conflict resolution! You would hope it is normally a place of rest and relaxation. If you are not satisfied with his/her response, let them know that, and advise you will be taking the matter further (to Seattle?).

I hope that this incident doesn't affect the enjoyment of your cruise.

At least it did not become physical. We have heard of a couple that happened on Crystal and one recently over US politics.

We had an issue a long time ago and it was rectified by the hotel director. Also if caught pot smoking buys you a one way ticket off the ship.

Two days ago on odyssey the rabbi and his wife got into a shouting match on the pool deck with some passengers who had a different opinion about the settlements in Israel. Oy vey!!

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I just don't understand how or why people can allow themselves to become so angry over something so relatively trivial as a slightly delayed hair appointment! On holiday too.

It's very self indulgent behaviour, all that shouting and commotion over nothing. Said passenger should be thoroughly ashamed of her herself.

If the Spa manager hasn't dealt with the issue shouldn't it be referred to the Hotman to whom presumably concessionaires report - I would have hoped that after Henry had spoken to her she would have referred it up the line both for report and if needed for assistance in resolving the matter if they lacked the experience.

Again, Seabourn should make this right. The alternative (although OP is obviously not the type of person to do this) is the suggestion from post 7 :

"there are more subtle ways of causing discomfort to people whose behaviour is consistently poor than expecting action to be taken by Seabourn."

Anybody want that?

"Let it go" is permissive to the angry woman and none of us want this behavior to be re-enforced.

I think previous poster is correct about going to Hotman as the Spa may have quashed this due to reasons OP is not aware of.

Our experience, with 18 Seabourn cruises and more than 440 days, to include the 2014 WC, is that Seabourn has a policy of non involvement. On the WC, there was a passenger on board for around 90 days that had a severe body odor problem, who came to the gym nearly ever day. It was so bad that passengers would have to stop exercising next to him. I informed the spa manager of the issue - the only thing done was that they would use room spray after he left. I also brought the issue up to the HD - nothing else was done. It's obvious they do not wish to offend anyone and I can understand that, but in certain circumstances, management involvement is necessary. The problem/issue was noted by numerous other passengers, not only in the gym, but on the shuttle bus and tours. To me, a simple comment to the passenger would be to say - no offense intended, but several passengers have told us that you might have body odor issue that is affecting your fellow passengers. The experience that Henry's daughter and wife experienced is no different and certainly warrants management's involvement. That said, I do recollect an instance in which that disembarked a mother and son for smoking pot.

This makes sense. Body odor is a tricky issue, as it could be a medical condition, and Seabourn could risk legal challenge if they were to disembark the passenger due to a "disability." Smoking pot, however, is a no-brainer - it is an illegal activity.

This is a tricky area for most hospitality operators. They are loathed to get involved in a dispute between two guests and experience tells them that there are usually two sides to every story. Standards of behaviour and good manners can be very different between different nations, ages and socio economic groups.Tipping, standing in line, please and thank yous, use of mobile devices, over refreshed guests etc etc can raise the hackles when this is just normal behaviour for some individuals.

I can understand why the poster was irritated and concerned(the involvement of his daughter) but no one died, there was no personal injuryand there are more subtle ways of causing discomfort to people whose behaviour is consistently poor than expecting action to be taken by Seabourn.

In my experience standards of guest behaviour on Seabourn are top draw and most guests are more than happy to apologise for behaviour which causes distress to another.

The crew and management have plenty of other things to do.

I agree. We don't have complete information and have only heard one side of the story. The daughter and mother, in fact, were not on the receiving end of the irate passenger. She directed her outburst at the spa staff, who intervened and dealt with the irate lady.

Again, we don't know the other side of the story. Most of us pay relatively big bucks to go on Seabourn to enjoy ourselves, not to throw a tantrum. That lady could have a medical condition and was off her medications? She could have substance-abuse issues... Who knows? If that were the case, Seabourn management would surely not be able to disclose anything to passengers due to privacy and confidentiality and to protect themselves against potential lawsuits.

In a way, I feel sorry for the irate lady for her terrible behavior - to behave the way she does/did - on a a luxury cruise, no less! - she must carry a lot of pain and suffering inside and live a miserable life. In this case, she is not even getting the help she needs and is causing misery to others around her.

Unless she is a danger to herself or others, or has broken a law, I think it's too harsh to suggest that she be offloaded the ship. As others have said, let it go...

As it is we continue to enjoy our cruise and presumably the passenger continues to abuse crew and passengers alike.

"Presumably"... "continues to abuse" crew and passengers? Is this true? Why do you presume so? Is she a chronic, indiscriminate abuser to everyone around her continuously? If the abuse is so frequent and heinous, perhaps a case can be made to the Captain to consider further actions?...:confused:

If you're going to San Francisco

Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair

If you're going to San Francisco

You're gonna meet some gentle people there

I'm going to be unpopular with my response.

 

How does the OP know the issue wasn't addressed at some level? There is and should be a level of privacy for all--even the rude.

 

Also, if my husband decided to involve himself in a situation like this I'd be beyond angry. As a wife and mother (and now a grandmother) present during this unholy display of entitlement by the rude woman, I'd handle the situation or not as I felt appropriate. I didn't hear that the daughter was brought to tears nor the mother full of angst over the incident and unable to put it behind her.

Not unpopular at all. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the incident hasn't tarnished our cruise. My gripe is more aimed at the Spa management team not dealing with things in a timely manner.

Having spoken to the Spa after breakfast on Dec 24th I heard nothing. No message left on the phone, no note outside the door so Yesterday I went and spoke to the assistant manager again briefly prior to making my feelings known on here. The conversation lasted little more than 30 seconds and was upbeat and amenable.

A message was left on Emily's phone yesterday saying they would try to make contact today.

Had the Spa team done anything to address the issue they would have followed up my complaint.

We don't want a Spa credit. We tipped the hair stylist because it wasn't his fault. The reality is too much time has passed for anything to be done but a forum like this provides a sounding board to air your thoughts.

Emily & my wife are quite reserved when it comes to confrontation. Both said that in hindsight they wish they had spoken up at the time.

Henry :)

In my experience standards of guest behaviour on Seabourn are top draw and most guests are more than happy to apologise for behaviour which causes distress to another.

In which case a quick call from the Spa team to angry woman explaining that her actions had caused distress to fellow passengers would have resulted in an apology. It was a one off, we all have bad hair days and the matter is resolved.

Henry :)

"Presumably"... "continues to abuse" crew and passengers? Is this true? Why do you presume so? Is she a chronic, indiscriminate abuser to everyone around her continuously? If the abuse is so frequent and heinous, perhaps a case can be made to the Captain to consider further actions?...:confused:

If it was me and a one off incident I would have made it my business to track down Ems & Mrs Able Seaman around the ship and apologise directly. A 15 second conversation and all is resolved. The fact this hasn't happened suggests angry woman might see this as routine behaviour.

Henry :)

Henry,the issue that I see is that the spa is a concession run by Steiner.

Staff are not directly employed by Seabourn so they might be singing from a different hymn book.

I assume that you have spotted the angry woman around the ship and can see how she is behaving?

I would have a word with Daniel the hotel director who is a great guy and will take any action that he thinks fit.

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If it was me and a one off incident I would have made it my business to track down Ems & Mrs Able Seaman around the ship and apologise directly. A 15 second conversation and all is resolved. The fact this hasn't happened suggests angry woman might see this as routine behaviour.

 

Henry :)

I'm of that mind set also, everyone can regret hasty actions but I wouldn't settle until I'd apologised to them in person, I'd feel so embarrassed every time I came across them and would have to apologise, not that I'd do it in the first place thought, I wouldn't sleep!

I understand the spa will be run by another company but the fact they run that particular business salon on Seabourn to my mind should mean they sing from Seabourn's hymn sheet.

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