Competition Heating Up

Ritz Carlton will put pressure on the luxury cruise market. Very impressive!

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/c...ise-brand.html

http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/yachts

It is interesting that Marriott is getting into the yachting business but, IMO, it is not competition to luxury cruise lines.

The differences in luxury cruising is one of the subjects on the luxury board. There are luxury cruise lines (Crystal, Regent, Seabourn and Silversea), luxury yachts, luxury river boats, sections of mainstream cruise lines that have a luxury section and luxury cruise lines that are not heavily marketing to the U.S. and Canada (perhaps due to the fact that most passengers are non-English speakers).

I call the four luxury cruise "the big four" as they have been in competition with each other for years (and to differentiate them from other types of luxury cruising). While I can certainly see luxury travelers trying luxury yachts - even sailing on them a couple of times, I don't see someone that enjoys all of the amenities of a 450 - 1,000 passenger luxury ship permanently switching to yachts (not that it could not happen)

As we know, there are already luxury yachts - Crystal has one and is building more and there is Sea Dream's two yachts and Wind Star (whose fleet includes the three older ships from Seabourn -- not exactly yachts but very small). So far they have not made much of an impression on the luxury market (at least we are not reading much about them....... yet!)

Well, looking at the numbers, these yachts will be just a bit longer than the Navigator and about 70' or so shorter than Voyager yet carry less than half of the passengers Voyager carries.

On the surface it appears that there will be pretty good space ratios, but I can guarantee you that's going to come at a cost. Although the article says there are a couple of 1,500 sq ft cabins on board, I'd be interested to see what the cabin size is for us mere mortals.

They look interesting but I'm going to wait to pass judgment until I see some more details on them. I'm not sure the cost/benefit ratio will work for me.

Pretty cool to see, though - thanks for posting.

I do not agree that Ritz Carlton will not be competition for the luxury lines. Just because up till now there have been four luxury lines (actually fice since many include Sea Dream in this category) doesn't mean that there will not be others that compete with them in the future. Scenic Eclipse is entering the market soon and will not only complete but I think will surpass the existing luxury lines. In any case I think the more the merrier. Gives us all more choices.

Having competition is a good thing as it will keep established lines at the top of their game surely? .

It will ultimately improve choices for everyone individual tastes. Jean.

Thanks for posting drdleo56.

Believe these new lines (Scenic Cruises, Ritz) will have to hit a near Grand Slam with their first launch to entice the entrenched Lux line frequent floaters. Look forward to reading the reviews/postings from Scenic cruises. We must get an email from them a day on booking with them.

Henry/Wripro r u considering booking Scenic--know you are unlike most of us frequent floaters loyal to our line(s) and eagerly give some new lines a try.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm curious how you all feel about the possible pricing for these smaller yacht-type cruises. I personally think they're going to be noticeably more expensive than the current luxury cruise offerings. Something more in the 'ultra-luxury' realm.

I don't see how they could compete on a per-diem basis; I'm sure those new builds are going to be VERY expensive and it'll take a lot of $$ per cabin to recoup that investment.

It'll be interesting to see.

I see that that the proposed Ritz-Carlton ship(s) have the same number of passengers as the previous Seabourn ships. This will be very attractive to many.

It will be interesting to see the price-point and inclusions/exclusions. With booking due to start in May 2018 there should be more detail by the end of the year.

Thanks for posting drdleo56.

 

Believe these new lines (Scenic Cruises, Ritz) will have to hit a near Grand Slam with their first launch to entice the entrenched Lux line frequent floaters. Look forward to reading the reviews/postings from Scenic cruises. We must get an email from them a day on booking with them.

 

Henry/Wripro r u considering booking Scenic--know you are unlike most of us frequent floaters loyal to our line(s) and eagerly give some new lines a try.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree with you about Scenic although they need to insure that they market to North America.

In terms of the old Seabourn ships, they were for sale forever and were finally purchased by Windstar. If smaller ships were doing so well, why did Regent, Silversea and Seabourn start building larger ships? I feel it is as Bill said - it is about revenue. It is also about what customers want.

Have any Regent regulars booked Crystal's "new" (purchased and renovated) yacht? I would think that anyone interested in that experience would jump on an opportunity to sail on a yacht that is run by a major and known luxury cruise company. The popularity of that boat would be one indicator of what luxury cruisers are seeking (in addition to what they already have).

Agree with you about Scenic although they need to insure that they market to North America.

 

In terms of the old Seabourn ships, they were for sale forever and were finally purchased by Windstar. If smaller ships were doing so well, why did Regent, Silversea and Seabourn start building larger ships? I feel it is as Bill said - it is about revenue. It is also about what customers want.

 

Have any Regent regulars booked Crystal's "new" (purchased and renovated) yacht? I would think that anyone interested in that experience would jump on an opportunity to sail on a yacht that is run by a major and known luxury cruise company. The popularity of that boat would be one indicator of what luxury cruisers are seeking (in addition to what they already have).

If you are talking about the Espirt not the new mega yacht that maybe built..yes Some Regent clients have been on it.

We think the Ritz Carlton with the parent company Marriott can do a bang up job on this journey. We would love to try it knowing what Ritz Carlton service is all about.

We still sail Regent, Seabourn and Crystal but have no desire to meet the Explorer. From what I read the RC will not be a expedition ship but will be very elegant and probably the most luxurious mega yacht at sea with the vibe of a luxury line. Price point? Nobody knows yet but it will definitely have an impact in the luxury cruise lines.

Time will tell.

Thanks for posting drdleo56.

 

Believe these new lines (Scenic Cruises, Ritz) will have to hit a near Grand Slam with their first launch to entice the entrenched Lux line frequent floaters. Look forward to reading the reviews/postings from Scenic cruises. We must get an email from them a day on booking with them.

 

Henry/Wripro r u considering booking Scenic--know you are unlike most of us frequent floaters loyal to our line(s) and eagerly give some new lines a try.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Why would they need to hit a home run? Regents been stumbling since Radisson. Crystals never been equivalent luxury, SilverSea has overall issues and Seabourn abandoned the true small ship segment.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree with you about Scenic although they need to insure that they market to North America.

 

 

 

In terms of the old Seabourn ships, they were for sale forever and were finally purchased by Windstar. If smaller ships were doing so well, why did Regent, Silversea and Seabourn start building larger ships? I feel it is as Bill said - it is about revenue. It is also about what customers want.

 

 

 

Have any Regent regulars booked Crystal's "new" (purchased and renovated) yacht? I would think that anyone interested in that experience would jump on an opportunity to sail on a yacht that is run by a major and known luxury cruise company. The popularity of that boat would be one indicator of what luxury cruisers are seeking (in addition to what they already have).

I would really like CC and the FTC to get their act together.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's great to see a new ship. Competition is good. And if Regent is smart they will do what they need to keep you. It will depend on a lot of things besides price. Even if Regent losses one cruiser because someone wants to try them-that's not good for Regent. I enjoy the lux part of a cruising, I don't enjoy the dress up part-so that alone would be a problem for us. We cruised SliverSeas once and for us once was all I needed to see it wasn't my ship. However I enjoy Ritz-Carlton Hotels from time to time and yes they really do it right. So I'll look forward to seeing what they have to offer. We cruised "O" for awhile and now have booked Regent for the next 3 cruises. I do enjoy being loyal to a line, but change is good for us from time to time. I don't want to cruise because I'm loyal, I want the cruise to be the best ever that brings be back---Then the loyal part falls into place.

Rick

I don't mind dress codes. So long as they're equally enforced. I also realize different strokes for different folks and what works today may not be the best tomorrow. I'd rather adhere to a dress code than end up with the sweaty tanks/short/sweatpants I've experienced across Regent and Oceania(the sequins...)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's great to see a new ship. Competition is good. And if Regent is smart they will do what they need to keep you. It will depend on a lot of things besides price. Even if Regent losses one cruiser because someone wants to try them-that's not good for Regent. I enjoy the lux part of a cruising, I don't enjoy the dress up part-so that alone would be a problem for us. We cruised SliverSeas once and for us once was all I needed to see it wasn't my ship. However I enjoy Ritz-Carlton Hotels from time to time and yes they really do it right. So I'll look forward to seeing what they have to offer. We cruised "O" for awhile and now have booked Regent for the next 3 cruises. I do enjoy being loyal to a line, but change is good for us from time to time. I don't want to cruise because I'm loyal, I want the cruise to be the best ever that brings be back---Then the loyal part falls into place.

Rick

Ron, and you are fair with comparisons and not a cheerleader for any.

Thank you

DRDLEO56, Thanks, that's just the way I feel.

EMPEROR NORTON, I didn't mean that---dress codes are OK with me, I just don't want to wear a suit to dinner or a tux. That's why SilverSeas didn't work for us. Even a lunch I don't want to see someone in sweats and that's I we have breakfast in the cabin most of the time.

Rick, as I've said before, we were Regent customers, tried two other lines (5 cruises) and returned to Regent. I didn't realize that you tried Silversea and did not care for it. We have sailed Silversea three times and although we prefer Regent, we put up with the over the top dress code and enjoy Silversea for what it is. OTOH, my DH likes Oceania much more than I do. While their upper suites (which you and I tend to book) are amazing on Oceania's Riviera and Marina, the rest of the environment (people and food) are to our liking and, unless my DH really wants to return to Oceania, we are sticking with Regent because we truly enjoy the product and the perks of being long time cruisers.

The one thing that I will find of interest about Marriott's new "Ritz Carlton" ships is how they will make the food as good as it is on land (which is being touted in their advertisements). Having done hands-on cooking on Regent (when they offered intensive Le Cordon Bleu classes), I learned that some things simply can not be the same on a ship as on land. For instance, ships cannot get fresh vegetables, fruit and seafood daily unless they sail in areas where they can obtain it off of the ship. Otherwise they will need to use frozen seafood as most luxury lines use when they cannot get it fresh.

Drdleo56, you state that some Regent passengers have been on Crystal's yacht. Have you read any reviews that you would care to share with us since there hasn't been a word about it on the Regent board.

I find it interesting that you and some other posters have judged the Explorer without having sailed on it. Could you state some specific reasons why you won't sail on her? For example, we will not sail on Crystal right now because of the suite sizes, lack of true open seating and the cost (as compared to Regent).

Agree with those that say that competition is good but I still do not see Sea Dream, Windstar or Crytal's yacht to be competition to Regent, Seabourn or Silversea. Scenic, OTOH, could be competition - time will tell.

Emperor Norton - I can't believe that I'm saying this but I disagree with every word that you posted. You sound as if you dislike all of the major luxury cruise lines. Could you elaborate? Also, what is "FTC" and why do you want "FTC" and "CC" to get their act together? Sorry, but your posts brought up a lot of questions.

DRDLEO56, Thanks, that's just the way I feel.

 

EMPEROR NORTON, I didn't mean that---dress codes are OK with me, I just don't want to wear a suit to dinner or a tux. That's why SilverSeas didn't work for us. Even a lunch I don't want to see someone in sweats and that's I we have breakfast in the cabin most of the time.

Hehe...SilverSea and their dress code(n)

I recall returning from a tour and getting to a bar at 1754. They refused to serve me (I was the only one in the bar) because at 1800 it would be the evenings dress code and I wouldn't have met it. My thought was I was thirsty and the drink I wanted would have been long gone before 6 minutes had elapsed.

When one reviews the size and pax numbers of the new RC ships, it appears that they will not be in competition with Crystal Esprit, SeaDream, or Windstar. The RC ships, at 190 meters, will be considerably larger than those ships and will carry more passengers. Rather, the RC ships might well be considered competition to the smaller ships of the established "luxury" lines, such as Silver Wind, Silver Cloud, and Seven Seas Navigator, carrying about the same number of pax as the two small Silversea ships and considerably fewer pax than Navigator, but in both cases in a larger ship, thereby resulting in a significantly better passenger/space ratio for RC.

TravelCat asked..."Drdleo56, you state that some Regent passengers have been on Crystal's yacht. Have you read any reviews that you would care to share with us since there hasn't been a word about it on the Regent board."

The people, actually six are not members of this site and neither was I but have been lurking off and on since 2001 and have many Radisson/Regent sailings so I very well know the line probably more than you. We sailed Regent before finding Crystal and Seabourn and found the quality to be a few notches better on these lines.

As mentioned by another poster you have never sailed Seabourn nor Crystal so you just make a judgement call. Doctors do not make judgement calls on diagnosis guessing. We need to be thorough and so should you. I certainly can speak as my husband and I have sailed all of them.

I'm done as you certainly will have the last word as always.

TravelCat asked..."Drdleo56, you state that some Regent passengers have been on Crystal's yacht. Have you read any reviews that you would care to share with us since there hasn't been a word about it on the Regent board."

 

 

The people, actually six are not members of this site and neither was I but have been lurking off and on since 2001 and have many Radisson/Regent sailings so I very well know the line probably more than you. We sailed Regent before finding Crystal and Seabourn and found the quality to be a few notches better on these lines.

 

 

As mentioned by another poster you have never sailed Seabourn nor Crystal so you just make a judgement call. Doctors do not make judgement calls on diagnosis guessing. We need to be thorough and so should you. I certainly can speak as my husband and I have sailed all of them.

 

 

I'm done as you certainly will have the last word as always.

Definitely not looking for the last word. However, one can decide whether or not they a ship is a "no go" by reading their website. I mentioned why we haven't sailed on Crystal. We have not sailed on Seabourn due to the smoking policy that was in effect until recently. Now perhaps you will let us know why you choose to not sail on the Explorer. You state that doctors do not make judgement calls....... okay, so why the judgement on Explorer?

Yes - you are Titanium and we are almost Titanium so you have sailed Radisson/Regent more than we have. No argument there. And, we all have choices as to which lines we cruise. IMO, all of the "big four" (Crystal, Regent, Seabourn and Silversea) are fine products and one cannot go wrong with any of them.

"The last word" is no big deal IMO - threads end when they end. Trying to be open here as your harsh judgements on my opinions is puzzling. I believe that we are all entitled to our opinion and hopefully you will post yours regarding the Explorer.

You state that doctors do not make judgement calls....... okay, so why the judgement on Explorer?

You caught that too, huh? :cool:

I agree it's all about choice and every person has the right to make a choice. I sailed a few other lines I just didn't really care for-the didn't like the ship's, service over all, food so-so or the suites. "O" I like, the bigger suites are great, the Owners Suite on the bigger ships is really to big, but really nice. When cruising on Silverseas, just didn't care for the suite or the dress code-but that's my choice. Now I ready to try Regent for the first time so and I'm looking forward to a great cruise-I like the feel of the suite (Grand) and what I read. I've booked 3 Regents---will I go back to "O", yes we've booked 1 for now and think we'll be booking another one soon. To us it's all about choice! Do I like the loyal programs, yes but I don't cruise just one line so I depend on my TA to get me extras. And if we get the service, food and enjoyment I'll be back. Right now it's regent and "O" on the top of our list. We'll see what happens. That said I'm very loyal to my airline program because it always gets us in first and I still have lot's of miles from when I worked-plus they treat us nice when at the airport should something go wrong and that's very important to me. Rick

You caught that too, huh? :cool:

You both miss my not so good point. What I am saying is when I need another medical opinion i.e. specialist I confer with a colleague who knows whatever practice he/she is in.

As for cruising I will consult a trave professional who has actually been on the line not just reading about in a travel magazine. We also will talk to our friends who actually have sailed on a particular line. I am not interested in opinions from people who have never sailed the line. What credibility does that hold?

I have read a lot of misinformation from posters here about Crystal and Seabourn.

Our choice for not sailing the Explorer is based on feedback from friends who have sailed her and they know what we like in terms of luxury cruises and we all are seasoned cruisers. The complaints that we heard at least from two couples was the service was uneven or hit and miss. They thought the ship was OTT glitzy which we don't like. Food was good to mediocre and service at times what they said was like watching grass grow. Their favorite ship is the Voyager and Mariner and will not be returning to the Explorer. So having those opinions of people I trust we will stick with ships we know well and not be set up for disappointment.

I pay no attention to cheerleaders or people who have never sailed on a particular line. I also don't pay attention to posters here who we don't know what we like or our expectations.

You both miss my not so good point. What I am saying is when I need another medical opinion i.e. specialist I confer with a colleague who knows whatever practice he/she is in.

 

As for cruising I will consult a trave professional who has actually been on the line not just reading about in a travel magazine. We also will talk to our friends who actually have sailed on a particular line. I am not interested in opinions from people who have never sailed the line. What credibility does that hold?

 

I have read a lot of misinformation from posters here about Crystal and Seabourn.

 

Our choice for not sailing the Explorer is based on feedback from friends who have sailed her and they know what we like in terms of luxury cruises and we all are seasoned cruisers. The complaints that we heard at least from two couples was the service was uneven or hit and miss. They thought the ship was OTT glitzy which we don't like. Food was good to mediocre and service at times what they said was like watching grass grow. Their favorite ship is the Voyager and Mariner and will not be returning to the Explorer. So having those opinions of people I trust we will stick with ships we know well and not be set up for disappointment.

 

I pay no attention to cheerleaders or people who have never sailed on a particular line. I also don't pay attention to posters here who we don't know what we like or our expectations.

Well, Leo, that sounds like you'll discount probably 99.8% of what you read on these boards since I'm pretty sure the majority of people posting don't know what you like or what your expectations are.

And the fact of the matter is you CAN get a lot of good information about a cruise line from reading about it - I can read on Crystal's website that their basic veranda cabin on Symphony is 246 sq ft - I don't need a travel agent to tell me that. I can also read a lot about dress codes, smoking policies, dining options, etc. without having to have it confirmed by multiple sources.

The problem we run into here is that most everyone here is an avid cruiser, whether we're top-tier on a particular line or not. And as such, we tend to get down into the minutiae of cruising, and that is where a lot of the petty discussions arise. Truth be told, I'm pretty certain that if any one of us sailed on any of the major luxury lines, we'd be pretty happy with the product - it's the little details that differentiate them, and that's where we, as recurring cruisers, get into the 'love it/hate it' things. For instance, I don't feel that Explorer is over the top, but you might. And that's fine. That's what choice is all about.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I sure wish we could all just ask and answer questions and share experiences without slipping into the personal sniping. But I won't hold my breath...

(yn)