Passports, get them ordered now

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#21
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by zqvol
I would not be surprised to see an executive order requiring passports for all people entering and leaving the US by any means.
I wouldn't rule anything out, but the current regulations came about following legislation to tighten border entry controls for those entering the country. Even in light of that legislation DHS still provided several exceptions to the requirement to present a passport and of course closed loop cruises is the most commonly talked about on here. DHS determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise presents a low risk to the national security, hence the exception. The President might sign an Executive Order asking DHS to re-examine the issue, I'm not sure that an Executive Order would actually supersede existing law and regulation.
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#22
16,733 Posts
Joined Mar 2005
Originally posted by sparks1093
I wouldn't rule anything out, but the current regulations came about following legislation to tighten border entry controls for those entering the country. Even in light of that legislation DHS still provided several exceptions to the requirement to present a passport and of course closed loop cruises is the most commonly talked about on here. DHS determined that a US citizen on a closed loop cruise presents a low risk to the national security, hence the exception. The President might sign an Executive Order asking DHS to re-examine the issue, I'm not sure that an Executive Order would actually supersede existing law and regulation.
Keep dreaming if you think the executive order would not at least attempt to supersede existing law, and then wait the two or three years while the courts decide that the order is invalid.

Just get a passport.
#23
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by zqvol
Keep dreaming if you think the executive order would not at least attempt to supersede existing law, and then wait the two or three years while the courts decide that the order is invalid.

Just get a passport.
Already have one, thanks anyway. (But if I didn't have one I wouldn't be panicked into getting one.)
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CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#24
Pennsylvania
5,280 Posts
Joined Jul 2010
Originally posted by sparks1093
I'm not sure that an Executive Order would actually supersede existing law and regulation.
From what I know about regulation (as opposed to laws) an EO would likely override any interfering regulation.

Unlike laws, regulations come from within the particular executive department.
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#25
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Underwatr
From what I know about regulation (as opposed to laws) an EO would likely override any interfering regulation.

Unlike laws, regulations come from within the particular executive department.
Those regulations came from enabling legislation though and have the force of law. Current President may try to modify the regs, he may not. Only time will tell. I'm not really going to let all that he might do dictate my day to day actions.
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CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#26
Palm Harbor, FL
4,619 Posts
Joined Nov 2001
Seems I read recently that a number of States (9 maybe) don't have driver licenses that meet the Federal ID requirements for domestic air travel starting in 2018.

We've been using our passports for even domestic travel for a couple of years.
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#27
Washington State
21,269 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
IMO, most people in the U.S. would vote to require passports for everyone arriving in the U.S. While they can still be counterfeit, it is more difficult to counterfeit a passport than a Drivers' License. Also, there are different styles of Drivers' Licenses (one style for every state) which makes recognition challenging.

As many of you know, when you enter some countries, you receive a stamped piece of paper (entry card) that you must have when you depart the country. This is how they track anyone trying to stay in the country illegally.

In any case, I think that we should all have passports (and we do live in a state where we will not be able to board a plane without one in the not so distant future - regardless of the destination).

If/when new laws go into effect, IMO, it is much better to have the passport than trying to obtain one when hundreds of thousands of other people are applying at the same time.
#28
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
IMO, most people in the U.S. would vote to require passports for everyone arriving in the U.S. While they can still be counterfeit, it is more difficult to counterfeit a passport than a Drivers' License. Also, there are different styles of Drivers' Licenses (one style for every state) which makes recognition challenging.

As many of you know, when you enter some countries, you receive a stamped piece of paper (entry card) that you must have when you depart the country. This is how they track anyone trying to stay in the country illegally.

In any case, I think that we should all have passports (and we do live in a state where we will not be able to board a plane without one in the not so distant future - regardless of the destination).

If/when new laws go into effect, IMO, it is much better to have the passport than trying to obtain one when hundreds of thousands of other people are applying at the same time.
The law already does require passports for non-US and US citizens arriving by land or air and has very few exceptions (such as allowing the use of passport cards, EDLs, Nexus cards, etc. and land and sea ports of entry). As stated a US citizen on a closed loop cruise presents a low risk to the National Security- the cruise lines do a great job of making sure only passengers come back with the ship and the passengers are vetted during the cruise (US citizen and non-citizen alike) so if there are any issues they will be addressed upon the ship's return.
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US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#29
San Jose, Calif
1,486 Posts
Joined Feb 2010
Originally posted by sparks1093
Those regulations came from enabling legislation though and have the force of law. Current President may try to modify the regs, he may not. Only time will tell. I'm not really going to let all that he might do dictate my day to day actions.
With the current administration's attitude towards law and order, we might get closer to having to carry our passports at all times and occasionally being stopped to "show your papers." If you scoff at this, consider that during WWI and II, several countries who had relatively good freedom to move around like we do now were changed to a police state environment where everyone needed to be able prove they were legal residents at any time. Considering the incendiary rhetoric of the new president during and after this election, I would not be surprised if we get to that point in the next four years. I certainly hope not. But considering how unorthodox this election was, all bets are off for what the future will bring.
#30
Washington State
21,269 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Of course the turnaround time now for passports is not long..... but what would happen if passports were required for all flights or if the "closed loop" cruises were no longer exempt? This is why I am so strongly in favor of getting passports now. As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...flight-real-id

In terms of closed loop exemptions - I have been against this for a long time. If you or a family member get sick -- if someone at home passes away or there is some other emergency, the delays in getting home are simply not worth it. Instead of getting off the ship and to the airport to fly home, you end up spending time at a U.S. Embassy..... just too big a risk IMO.

And here are the nine states that will require more than a drivers' license to board planes as of next year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/airl...cense-tsa-rule
#31
Wherever there is water, a boat and the wind!
1,144 Posts
Joined Oct 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
.... As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...flight-real-id

And here are the nine states that will require more than a drivers' license to board planes as of next year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/airl...cense-tsa-rule
You need to take another look at the links you provide. It isn't the states that are requiring additional identification. It is the federal government, and this only because the driver's licenses in these states do not meet federal standards for identification documents. These states have had 11 years to comply. Can't imagine why they haven't bothered. If they issued compliant driver's licenses, then the passport requirement would go away, just like in most of the states - the ones who take proof of identification seriously.

Quoted from the very article you linked to:

"The IDs from these nine states do not meet the federal government’s minimum security standards. And, according to the REAL ID Act of 2005, federal agencies (like the TSA) are prohibited from “accepting for certain purposes driver’s licenses and identification cards from states not meeting the Act’s minimum standards.”

"In order for states to pass the government’s security standards, they must verify every ID applicant’s identity, put anti-counterfeit technology in the production of the card and conduct background checks on those who issue driver’s licenses."
#32
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by SantaFeFan
With the current administration's attitude towards law and order, we might get closer to having to carry our passports at all times and occasionally being stopped to "show your papers." If you scoff at this, consider that during WWI and II, several countries who had relatively good freedom to move around like we do now were changed to a police state environment where everyone needed to be able prove they were legal residents at any time. Considering the incendiary rhetoric of the new president during and after this election, I would not be surprised if we get to that point in the next four years. I certainly hope not. But considering how unorthodox this election was, all bets are off for what the future will bring.
I suppose anything is possible, but I'll wait and see rather than fear the worst to that extreme.
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US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#33
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Of course the turnaround time now for passports is not long..... but what would happen if passports were required for all flights or if the "closed loop" cruises were no longer exempt? This is why I am so strongly in favor of getting passports now. As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...flight-real-id

In terms of closed loop exemptions - I have been against this for a long time. If you or a family member get sick -- if someone at home passes away or there is some other emergency, the delays in getting home are simply not worth it. Instead of getting off the ship and to the airport to fly home, you end up spending time at a U.S. Embassy..... just too big a risk IMO.

And here are the nine states that will require more than a drivers' license to board planes as of next year: http://www.travelandleisure.com/airl...cense-tsa-rule
We'll see what happens with those in the states that aren't REAL ID compliant, but 41 states are. Even if they did need an ID other than their drivers license to fly they don't have to jump to a full passport book, they could obtain a passport card for that purpose.

And as far as closed loop travel goes it is an individual decision, one that doesn't affect you at all, so if the person does make the wrong choice they have a little more hassle to face in getting home. Millions of people travel on closed loop cruises every year without any issues at all, so it just isn't that risky.

Back when the law changed requiring passports many people panicked and got passports, only to find out once the dust settled that they didn't really need them at all for the type of travel they do.
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Previous cruises:

NCL Dream CTN May 2008
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NCL Sky Bahamas April 2010 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=66539
CCL Pride Bahamas October 2012 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=110323
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CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#34
1,848 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
[quote=Travelcat2;52127085] As mentioned earlier, there are several states that will no longer accept drivers' licenses are identification for boarding a flight. Those that may question what I'm posting, check out this article: http://www.travelandleisure.com/arti...flight-real-id/QUOTE]
Can you PLEASE use updated facts? An article from 2015, especially one dealing with government regulations is not accurate. Up to date information: https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs
Starting January 22, 2018, passengers who have driver’s licenses issued by a state that is not yet compliant with REAL ID and that has not received an extension will need to show an alternative form of acceptable identification for domestic air travel.
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#35
Texas
852 Posts
Joined Apr 2012
Originally posted by SantaFeFan
With the current administration's attitude towards law and order, we might get closer to having to carry our passports at all times and occasionally being stopped to "show your papers." If you scoff at this, consider that during WWI and II, several countries who had relatively good freedom to move around like we do now were changed to a police state environment where everyone needed to be able prove they were legal residents at any time. Considering the incendiary rhetoric of the new president during and after this election, I would not be surprised if we get to that point in the next four years. I certainly hope not. But considering how unorthodox this election was, all bets are off for what the future will bring.

Make passports great again!
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#36
Pennsylvania
5,280 Posts
Joined Jul 2010
Originally posted by sloopsailor
These states have had 11 years to comply. Can't imagine why they haven't bothered.
Some states have laws or constitutional clauses that are more respective of citizens' privacy than the US Constitution.
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#37
Wherever there is water, a boat and the wind!
1,144 Posts
Joined Oct 2009
Originally posted by Underwatr
Some states have laws or constitutional clauses that are more respective of citizens' privacy than the US Constitution.
What? Requiring an ID document to actually represent the person who is carrying it is anti-privacy?
#38
Washington State
21,269 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
I do understand that the nine states are not compliant and could change their Drivers' Licenses to become so but this does not change the issue of the ease of counterfeiting them. I was a Notary Public and had people present me with Drivers' Licenses from different states. Trying to determine their authenticity was not always easy. In any case, I strongly believe that anyone entering the U.S. should have a passport - not as concerned about flying within the U.S. (although based on history, I probably should be).
#39
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,870 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
I do understand that the nine states are not compliant and could change their Drivers' Licenses to become so but this does not change the issue of the ease of counterfeiting them. I was a Notary Public and had people present me with Drivers' Licenses from different states. Trying to determine their authenticity was not always easy. In any case, I strongly believe that anyone entering the U.S. should have a passport - not as concerned about flying within the U.S. (although based on history, I probably should be).
DHS has access to databases that you didn't as a notary and all passengers on a closed loop cruise are run through those databases while the cruise is ongoing. A US citizen having a passport on a closed loop cruise would do nothing to increase the national security since US citizens on a closed loop cruise present a low risk to the National Security to begin with. Making a phony drivers license isn't as easy as many think it is and making one that will stand up to the scrutiny of a trained law enforcement professional is even harder.
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Previous cruises:

NCL Dream CTN May 2008
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NCL Sky Bahamas April 2010 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=66539
CCL Pride Bahamas October 2012 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=110323
NCL Gem Bahamas May 2014 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=255699
CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!