Passports, get them ordered now

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#41
Washington State
20,802 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by sparks1093
DHS has access to databases that you didn't as a notary and all passengers on a closed loop cruise are run through those databases while the cruise is ongoing. A US citizen having a passport on a closed loop cruise would do nothing to increase the national security since US citizens on a closed loop cruise present a low risk to the National Security to begin with. Making a phony drivers license isn't as easy as many think it is and making one that will stand up to the scrutiny of a trained law enforcement professional is even harder.
Interesting information! I still don't understand the rationale in exempting any person (or cruise) from requiring passports. IMO, if you travel outside of the U.S., a passport should be required

With the thousands of passengers leaving the country on closed loop cruises every year, it would be interesting to know how many had to return to the U.S. via plane that did not have a passport. This obviously requires more work on the part of the U.S. Embassy, the cruise ship and perhaps even the airlines.
#42
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,382 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Interesting information! I still don't understand the rationale in exempting any person (or cruise) from requiring passports. IMO, if you travel outside of the U.S., a passport should be required

With the thousands of passengers leaving the country on closed loop cruises every year, it would be interesting to know how many had to return to the U.S. via plane that did not have a passport. This obviously requires more work on the part of the U.S. Embassy, the cruise ship and perhaps even the airlines.
The reason for requiring passports is to prevent someone from sneaking into the country in order to harm the country. Who is going to sneak into the country just to sneak out of the country so they can sneak into the country again 7 days later? That's what would have to happen in order for them to embark on a closed loop cruise. I doubt that anyone sneaking into the country is all that worried about leaving in order to take a vacation. As I point out on another thread I don't think that those sneaking into the country would do so via a closed loop cruise.
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#43
Washington State
20,802 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
This thread is about getting your passport as soon as you can. I agree with this. If what I suspect happens (everyone needing a passport to enter the U.S.), I hope that this thread will be remembered!
#44
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,382 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
This thread is about getting your passport as soon as you can. I agree with this. If what I suspect happens (everyone needing a passport to enter the U.S.), I hope that this thread will be remembered!
That's the rub- the law has always required passports. This is pointed out in the DHS regulations that give us the closed loop cruise exception (plus about 11 other exceptions). Now, it is possible that some exceptions may be done away with, but if I didn't have a passport I wouldn't be rushing out to get one just because that might happen. I currently use an EDL to cross the border that is 8 miles from my front door, are you suggesting that should no longer be valid?
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CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#45
Washington State
20,802 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by sparks1093
That's the rub- the law has always required passports. This is pointed out in the DHS regulations that give us the closed loop cruise exception (plus about 11 other exceptions). Now, it is possible that some exceptions may be done away with, but if I didn't have a passport I wouldn't be rushing out to get one just because that might happen. I currently use an EDL to cross the border that is 8 miles from my front door, are you suggesting that should no longer be valid?
Not sure what a "EDL" is. However, most cards (like NEXUS) that gets people across the Canadian border faster have had background checks (every 5 years in the case of NEXUS). If you do anything wrong (even carrying merchandise across the border for someone else - something seemingly innocent) you lose the card forever. If are arrested - even for misdemeanor, it can be taken away forever. IMO, people carrying these cards are less of a risk than people that carry only passports.

Having said that, this thread is a good wake-up call for people. Whether or not they decide to get a passport is up to them. Posters are only here to give opinions, suggestions and to provide information about their personal experiences. I think that this has been done quite well.
#46
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,382 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Not sure what a "EDL" is. However, most cards (like NEXUS) that gets people across the Canadian border faster have had background checks (every 5 years in the case of NEXUS). If you do anything wrong (even carrying merchandise across the border for someone else - something seemingly innocent) you lose the card forever. If are arrested - even for misdemeanor, it can be taken away forever. IMO, people carrying these cards are less of a risk than people that carry only passports.

Having said that, this thread is a good wake-up call for people. Whether or not they decide to get a passport is up to them. Posters are only here to give opinions, suggestions and to provide information about their personal experiences. I think that this has been done quite well.
Enhanced Drivers License, which serves the same function and purpose of a passport card. AFAIK Washington state also issues them. Also AFAIK if a background check was done it was only a rudimentary name search of the NCIC database or some such (the same as is done when a passport is issued). Yes, it has been a good discussion.
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Previous cruises:

NCL Dream CTN May 2008
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NCL Sky Bahamas April 2010 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=66539
CCL Pride Bahamas October 2012 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=110323
NCL Gem Bahamas May 2014 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=255699
CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#47
1,846 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by Travelcat2
This thread is about getting your passport as soon as you can. I agree with this. If what I suspect happens (everyone needing a passport to enter the U.S.), I hope that this thread will be remembered!
But short of going to certain federal locations, a passport wouldn't be required for a year. So why get one "as soon as you can"? Or would you like everyone to carry passports wherever they go and they must present the "papers" whenever asked for them?
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#48
Ottawa Canada
2,278 Posts
Joined Sep 2004
Originally posted by S.A.M.J.R.
But short of going to certain federal locations, a passport wouldn't be required for a year. So why get one "as soon as you can"? Or would you like everyone to carry passports wherever they go and they must present the "papers" whenever asked for them?
Maybe not a bad idea! http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...126-story.html
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#49
Washington State
20,802 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by S.A.M.J.R.
But short of going to certain federal locations, a passport wouldn't be required for a year. So why get one "as soon as you can"? Or would you like everyone to carry passports wherever they go and they must present the "papers" whenever asked for them?
I did not start this thread and don't believe that everyone in the U.S. has to have a passport. However, For those people that are planning a cruise outside of the U.S., I wouldn't wait until the government forced me to get one as the wait times would be horrendous. I feel that cruisers need to be proactive so that we don't see a thread on CC 6 months now posting about how they missed their cruise because their passport did not arrive on time.

Sparks1093: Yes - Washington state does issue Enhanced Drivers' Licenses -- just never heard them referred to by their initials. When I referred to background checks, when you apply for NEXUS/Global Entry, the background check goes back a long way. I know of people that have been declined due to misdemeanor in the 50's. People with DUI's are definitely declined. Although Canada is very welcoming to foreign visitors, if these visitors want "quick entry" into the country, they want to make sure that their backgrounds are clean. Out of curiosity - are you able to go in the NEXUS line with your Enhanced Drivers License when entering Canada?
#50
1,846 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by Liz54
Maybe not a bad idea! http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...126-story.html
Please don't tell me you're actually suggesting people should be required to carry ID papers with them at all times.

Originally posted by Travelcat2
I did not start this thread and don't believe that everyone in the U.S. has to have a passport. However, For those people that are planning a cruise outside of the U.S., I wouldn't wait until the government forced me to get one as the wait times would be horrendous. I feel that cruisers need to be proactive so that we don't see a thread on CC 6 months now posting about how they missed their cruise because their passport did not arrive on time.
Well, you wouldn't see that thread because it would be at least a year before someone isn't able to fly. You still haven't explained why you think it's a good idea to require passports on a closed loop cruise.
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#51
Washington State
20,802 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by S.A.M.J.R.
Well, you wouldn't see that thread because it would be at least a year before someone isn't able to fly. You still haven't explained why you think it's a good idea to require passports on a closed loop cruise.
Actually I have explained it but have no problem doing so again. Passports are more difficult to counterfeit than birth certificates and/or drivers' licenses. Also (and I didn't mention this previously), if someone used false identification to get onto a closed loop cruise in order to pick something up in Mexico, the Caribbean or ???, they could quite easily bring it back into the U.S. (assuming such items were plastic-based and not easily detectable by x-ray). I think that you know where I'm going with this.

Kindly advise how you know that it would take a year to implement a new passport requirement for closed loop cruises? IMO, with the current strained relationship with Mexico, this restriction could be put on in a moment's notice. I could be wrong which is why I'm asking the question.

While I'm enjoying this debate, my mind is starting to think of ways people may think of to bring explosives into the U.S. Not something that I want to think about.
#52
1,846 Posts
Joined Oct 2011
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Actually I have explained it but have no problem doing so again. Passports are more difficult to counterfeit than birth certificates and/or drivers' licenses. Also (and I didn't mention this previously), if someone used false identification to get onto a closed loop cruise in order to pick something up in Mexico, the Caribbean or ???, they could quite easily bring it back into the U.S. (assuming such items were plastic-based and not easily detectable by x-ray). I think that you know where I'm going with this.
How would requiring a passport prevent that issue though?
I don't think anyone is denying DL's are easier to counterfeit. But what benefit do you have by requiring passports on closed loop cruises? You think someone is going to fake a DL and BC to take a 7 day cruise to the Caribbean?

Kindly advise how you know that it would take a year to implement a new passport requirement for closed loop cruises? IMO, with the current strained relationship with Mexico, this restriction could be put on in a moment's notice. I could be wrong which is why I'm asking the question.
Granted I have a passport, but hypothetically, let's say I didn't, and I had a cruise leaving in two weeks. Our government in it's infinite wisdom and operating with haste (which we know neither of those two happens much less at the same time) says "Everyone must have a passport for all cruises starting in 2 weeks." A) I think the cruise lines would fight that requirement in court because they know plenty of cruisers don't have a PP. B) I would be fighting myself (I don't know if it would go to court from me). I don't think it could happen "at a moments notice".

I mentioned a year, because in January 2018 is when residents of states that don't comply with the Real ID would need passports to fly.

While I'm enjoying this debate, my mind is starting to think of ways people may think of to bring explosives into the U.S. Not something that I want to think about.
Seems a lot easier to get explosives IN the US. Why bring them in from other countries?
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#53
Ottawa Canada
2,278 Posts
Joined Sep 2004
Originally posted by S.A.M.J.R.
Please don't tell me you're actually suggesting people should be required to carry ID papers with them at all times.

Oh my goodness no! The opposite! But the news story was chilling that a US citizen was asked for ID in the circumstances described.

I am a Canadian. I always have a passport. If I were an American without a passport I would get one. Things that seemed unbelievable a week ago are happening daily. Our hearts go out to our American friends
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#54
Washington State
20,802 Posts
Joined Dec 2005
Originally posted by S.A.M.J.R.
How would requiring a passport prevent that issue though?
I don't think anyone is denying DL's are easier to counterfeit. But what benefit do you have by requiring passports on closed loop cruises? You think someone is going to fake a DL and BC to take a 7 day cruise to the Caribbean?

Granted I have a passport, but hypothetically, let's say I didn't, and I had a cruise leaving in two weeks. Our government in it's infinite wisdom and operating with haste (which we know neither of those two happens much less at the same time) says "Everyone must have a passport for all cruises starting in 2 weeks." A) I think the cruise lines would fight that requirement in court because they know plenty of cruisers don't have a PP. B) I would be fighting myself (I don't know if it would go to court from me). I don't think it could happen "at a moments notice".

I mentioned a year, because in January 2018 is when residents of states that don't comply with the Real ID would need passports to fly.


Seems a lot easier to get explosives IN the US. Why bring them in from other countries?
Okay - I agree with some of what you say but not necessarily everything. I agree that there would need to be some notice before the government stopped closed loop cruises.

Yes - I do believe that people would use counterfeit DL's and birth certificates to go on a closed loop cruise if it enabled them to bring the makings for a bomb or some other illegal item into the U.S. Hate to answer a question with a question but aren't there explosives available outside of the U.S. that are not available in the U.S.?

The question about how much safer passports are keeps running through my mind. I know little about what goes on in terms of getting a passport (even though I've had several over the years). I do recall that they were made in Thailand - not the U.S. (at least that was a case a few years ago). I believe that they are more traceable when going through passport control (actually, I have no idea how anyone could verify a "certified" birth certificate on short notice). They do track which countries you have been in so they would see if you have made trips to the Middle East, etc.

In terms of cruise lines getting upset if closed loop cruises were suddenly stopped, it actually would only affect a few cruise lines (large ones but only a few). Many cruise lines do not even offer closed loop cruises. In fact, I learned about them on CC.

Perhaps there is a half-way measure that could be put into place until passports could be issued? Maybe a copy of your income taxes from last year (you could black out the financial data but show the name and address on the form), a copy of a utility bill that matches the name/address on your DL? Additionally, you could save a copy of your Passport Application (which may not have been filed but at least it shows some kind of intent).

I'm glad that the subject of 2018 has been brought up since I do live in a state that will require passports to board an airplane..... another thing to remember to do before your vacation
#55
Wherever there is water, a boat and the wind!
1,143 Posts
Joined Oct 2009
Originally posted by S.A.M.J.R.
Please don't tell me you're actually suggesting people should be required to carry ID papers with them at all times.


Well, you wouldn't see that thread because it would be at least a year before someone isn't able to fly.....
Maybe not. The recent ban on people entering from certain countries went into effect immediately, causing confusion and chaos all over the world. What promise that the same speed of action wouldn't happen with passports?

Interesting side note about that ban on Muslims from certain countries - Trump has no business dealings in any of those seven countries. However, for some countries that have produced actual known terrorists, such as the country that 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were from, no ban was included. Is it coincidence that Trump has business interests with those not included in the ban but has no business interests with those that are?
#56
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,382 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
I did not start this thread and don't believe that everyone in the U.S. has to have a passport. However, For those people that are planning a cruise outside of the U.S., I wouldn't wait until the government forced me to get one as the wait times would be horrendous. I feel that cruisers need to be proactive so that we don't see a thread on CC 6 months now posting about how they missed their cruise because their passport did not arrive on time.

Sparks1093: Yes - Washington state does issue Enhanced Drivers' Licenses -- just never heard them referred to by their initials. When I referred to background checks, when you apply for NEXUS/Global Entry, the background check goes back a long way. I know of people that have been declined due to misdemeanor in the 50's. People with DUI's are definitely declined. Although Canada is very welcoming to foreign visitors, if these visitors want "quick entry" into the country, they want to make sure that their backgrounds are clean. Out of curiosity - are you able to go in the NEXUS line with your Enhanced Drivers License when entering Canada?
There is only one lane going into Canada near where I live but no, if they did have a Nexus lane I do not think that I would not be eligible to use it. That's the thing, issuing a passport doesn't involve a background check, it just verifies a person's citizenship (although some checks are done because some people cannot have a passport and that information has to be available somewhere). It doesn't mean the person doesn't have a record or is on any type of no travel list. It just means that they have provided proof that the holder is a citizen of the US. TSA Pre-check, Global Entry, and Nexus are all programs where the traveler is able to provide their personal information and a background check is run on them to ensure that they are a "trusted traveler" which reduces their wait time when entering.
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I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

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#57
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,382 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by sloopsailor
Maybe not. The recent ban on people entering from certain countries went into effect immediately, causing confusion and chaos all over the world. What promise that the same speed of action wouldn't happen with passports?

Interesting side note about that ban on Muslims from certain countries - Trump has no business dealings in any of those seven countries. However, for some countries that have produced actual known terrorists, such as the country that 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were from, no ban was included. Is it coincidence that Trump has business interests with those not included in the ban but has no business interests with those that are?
There is a big difference between how our government can treat potential visitors to the country and how it must treat US citizens. I believe the last time changes were made it took something like 2 or 3 years for DHS to promulgate the final regulations and for them to take effect.
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Previous cruises:

NCL Dream CTN May 2008
NCL Sky Bahamas April 2009 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=54257
NCL Sky Bahamas April 2010 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=66539
CCL Pride Bahamas October 2012 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=110323
NCL Gem Bahamas May 2014 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=255699
CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#58
Enosburg Falls, Vermont
16,382 Posts
Joined Apr 2009
Originally posted by Travelcat2
Okay - I agree with some of what you say but not necessarily everything. I agree that there would need to be some notice before the government stopped closed loop cruises.

Yes - I do believe that people would use counterfeit DL's and birth certificates to go on a closed loop cruise if it enabled them to bring the makings for a bomb or some other illegal item into the U.S. Hate to answer a question with a question but aren't there explosives available outside of the U.S. that are not available in the U.S.?

The question about how much safer passports are keeps running through my mind. I know little about what goes on in terms of getting a passport (even though I've had several over the years). I do recall that they were made in Thailand - not the U.S. (at least that was a case a few years ago). I believe that they are more traceable when going through passport control (actually, I have no idea how anyone could verify a "certified" birth certificate on short notice). They do track which countries you have been in so they would see if you have made trips to the Middle East, etc.

In terms of cruise lines getting upset if closed loop cruises were suddenly stopped, it actually would only affect a few cruise lines (large ones but only a few). Many cruise lines do not even offer closed loop cruises. In fact, I learned about them on CC.

Perhaps there is a half-way measure that could be put into place until passports could be issued? Maybe a copy of your income taxes from last year (you could black out the financial data but show the name and address on the form), a copy of a utility bill that matches the name/address on your DL? Additionally, you could save a copy of your Passport Application (which may not have been filed but at least it shows some kind of intent).

I'm glad that the subject of 2018 has been brought up since I do live in a state that will require passports to board an airplane..... another thing to remember to do before your vacation
If someone presented a phony drivers license to board a closed loop cruise what do you suppose would happen when the number on the license was checked against the DMV records? They would show no record of that license being issued. CBP would then have some serious questions for that traveler upon the cruise's return. The Drivers license/birth certificate option is only available to US citizens and I am seriously confused why you think anyone would go to the kind of expense and trouble it would be to have phony documents made up in order to leave the US just to turn around and come back a few days later. If someone wants to bring something illegal back from a closed loop cruise they can do that by using authentic documents and them having a passport would not keep them from bringing something back.
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Previous cruises:

NCL Dream CTN May 2008
NCL Sky Bahamas April 2009 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=54257
NCL Sky Bahamas April 2010 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...?EntryID=66539
CCL Pride Bahamas October 2012 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=110323
NCL Gem Bahamas May 2014 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=255699
CCL Fascination S. Caribbean October 2016 http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberre...EntryID=551888

US Navy, too many to count but included 4 Med cruises (totaling 21 months) 1975-1992

I cruise because that's where the ocean is.

It beats haze gray and underway any day!
#59
Wherever there is water, a boat and the wind!
1,143 Posts
Joined Oct 2009
Originally posted by sparks1093
There is a big difference between how our government can treat potential visitors to the country and how it must treat US citizens. I believe the last time changes were made it took something like 2 or 3 years for DHS to promulgate the final regulations and for them to take effect.
You seem to be forgetting that the current administration cares little about how things were done in the past, and cares only about getting their agenda in place as quickly as possible with little to no discussion or vetting. How things were done until now may not have much influence on how things get done from this day forward.
#60
Lake Erie's South Shore
3,586 Posts
Joined Mar 2008
My passport expires in September, but I plan on getting my photo taken at Costco tomorrow and applying online tomorrow. DH and I have our KTN's, which speeded our return home from Niagara Falls Canada after a trip to see the winter lights made from 1/19 to 1/21.

One never knows what might occur in the near future. A concern I have is that countries we hope to visit may impose obstacles to our entry as is proposed for foreigners coming to the U.S.e.g that cell contacts and internet explorations will need to be disclosed as a condition for admittance.
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