Automatic Gratuities

Ok, I'm new here and I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death already. I've seen several discussions about tips in various threads. Who, what, where, when and how much to tip on top of the automatic gratuities, etc. I didn't really want to hijack someone else's thread with this so hear goes.

Does anyone see the cruise lines all but making automatic gratuities mandatory as a bait and switch scheme? When I go out to eat, I typically tip 20-30% so I have no issues with tipping for good service. It just irks me that the cruise lines advertise a price for the cruise and then "oh by the way", we're going to tack on another 10% to the cost of you cruise because we think our employees deserve it but we're too cheap to pay it.

I've been a member of various internet forums for years and I've seen several discussions about tipping in restaurants. It seems that for many, when the gratuity is automatically added to the bill, they only leave that amount when they might have otherwise left more. I'm curious if any of the onboard staff think that the automatically gratuities actually net them less money than if it were optional. Myself, I'm less inclined to leave more on top of the automatic gratuity.

I've been fortunate the last few years and have gotten a nice job that allows me more luxuries and I like to tip well. But it just doesn't sit well with me when companies refuse to pay their employees a decent wage and act as though it's their customers responsibility to do so. Automatic gratuities don't encourage employees to go above and beyond because they're going to get it whether they do a good job or not.

Ok, flame suit on. :D

Well,

You've read all the other tipping threads.

You've been on other internet forums that discuss tipping.

You are aware that this is an issue that crosses the spectrum.

I'm glad you had the opportunity to come to cruise critic to voice your special opinion.

Ok, I'm new here and I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death already. I've seen several discussions about tips in various threads. Who, what, where, when and how much to tip on top of the automatic gratuities, etc. I didn't really want to hijack someone else's thread with this so hear goes.

 

 

 

Does anyone see the cruise lines all but making automatic gratuities mandatory as a bait and switch scheme? When I go out to eat, I typically tip 20-30% so I have no issues with tipping for good service. It just irks me that the cruise lines advertise a price for the cruise and then "oh by the way", we're going to tack on another 10% to the cost of you cruise because we think our employees deserve it but we're too cheap to pay it.

 

 

 

I've been a member of various internet forums for years and I've seen several discussions about tipping in restaurants. It seems that for many, when the gratuity is automatically added to the bill, they only leave that amount when they might have otherwise left more. I'm curious if any of the onboard staff think that the automatically gratuities actually net them less money than if it were optional. Myself, I'm less inclined to leave more on top of the automatic gratuity.

 

 

 

I've been fortunate the last few years and have gotten a nice job that allows me more luxuries and I like to tip well. But it just doesn't sit well with me when companies refuse to pay their employees a decent wage and act as though it's their customers responsibility to do so. Automatic gratuities don't encourage employees to go above and beyond because they're going to get it whether they do a good job or not.

 

 

 

Ok, flame suit on. :D

The only thing you're going to get flamed for is bringing up the tipping topic, which has been "done to death" over and over and over and over again.

Not again. :(

You must have read this before: The automatic gratuities also go to staff in the background that the customers don't usually see.

You don' like the way the cruise industry pays staff? Are you in a position to change this?

If the auto-gratuity amount became mandatory then it would have to be added to the invoice at the time of booking as the Government Taxes and Fees are. And it is already being done in Australia where the initial fare quote to a citizen of Australia or New Zealand for a cruise on ships based Down Under year-round must be the grand total including all taxes, fees and gratuities. As you can guess the price ends up higher that what someone from the rest of the world pays even after taxes and daily auto-grats are added. Plus the prices of drinks on board is substantially higher due to the lack of 15% gratuity; rather than charge the exact equivalent of price + 15% they of course round the price well up.

(And I suggest you look up the definition of "bait and switch" which refers not to switching the price on an advertised item, but to either substituting an inferior item or forcibly trading you up to a higher priced item by refusing to sell the advertised one)

Thank you for starting the 1,000,000th thread discussing that old dead horse that's been beaten to death called "tipping".

Does anyone see the cruise lines all but making automatic gratuities mandatory as a bait and switch scheme? When I go out to eat, I typically tip 20-30% so I have no issues with tipping for good service. It just irks me that the cruise lines advertise a price for the cruise and then "oh by the way", we're going to tack on another 10% to the cost of you cruise because we think our employees deserve it but we're too cheap to pay it.

 

Whether you pay the automatic gratuities or they add that same figure to your fare, you are paying the employees salaries either way. Just as when you purchase something at a grocery store, the price you pay for the item includes a percentage that goes to the salaries of the store's employees.

We had to eat out twice in one day and the gratuities came to $9.50 per person (at roughly 20% of the bills). Seems reasonable to pay what the cruise lines charge for three meals a day and twice a day cabin service. I don't see why someone doesn't have a problem with a restaurant making its customers pay the wages of its staff but do have a problem with the cruise lines doing the same thing.

Yea sparks1093, post of the day and true in every way. :) Thank you for putting it so simply and so correctly.

My point is if the charge is going to be mandatory to pay it, it should be part of the initial price instead of advertising one price and then adding on more fees.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

My point is if the charge is going to be mandatory to pay it, it should be part of the initial price instead of advertising one price and then adding on more fees.

I hate that I am saying this and giving anyone ideas ( :eek: ) but the charge is not mandatory on all lines. The auto grats can be removed if one desires.

My point is if the charge is going to be mandatory to pay it, it should be part of the initial price instead of advertising one price and then adding on more fees.

As a long-ago Finance professor I had would tell the class when someone asked a question that essentially answered itself, but the questioner didn't quite realize that fact:

That's intuitively obvious.

If it ever becomes mandatory it would have to be on the initial invoice. Period. A point so obvious that its not really a point.

Right now NCL is skirting the line of mandatory-or-not by no longer adjusting auto-grats onboard, but through appeal to the home office after disembarking. Seems that they are on the road to becoming the first US-based line to incorporate tips into the fare and be done with it. (Another all too obvious observation, no?)

You have invited flames, but I don't want to play. Have a nice day.

My point is if the charge is going to be mandatory

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

There's your first mistake.

It's not mandatory.

As a long-ago Finance professor I had would tell the class when someone asked a question that essentially answered itself, but the questioner didn't quite realize that fact:

 

That's intuitively obvious.

 

If it is mandatory it would have to be on the initial invoice. Period. A point so obvious that its not really a point.

 

Right now NCL is skirting the line of mandatory-or-not by no longer adjusting auto-grats onboard, but through appeal to the home office after disembarking. Seems that they are on the road to becoming the first US-based line to incorporate tips into the fare and be done with it. (Another all too obvious observation, no?)

Actually, those outside the United States can adjust the service charge onboard the NCL ships and NCL didn't change any policies for getting back the daily service charge for those from the United States, they just changed the procedure. Folks have posted that they are getting their refunds from NCL under the new policy.

I hope all cruise lines make the daily service charge/automatic gratuities mandatory.

There's your first mistake.

 

It's not mandatory.

As I stated in my OP, they're all BUT mandatory. If I have to go to the desk and specifically request that I not be charged, what's the difference?

I along with nobody else seem to think that any of the staff don't deserve a good wage, be it through a higher wage or a lower wage plus tips. I'm not going to opt out of the tips. My point is if everyone agrees with the OVERALL price paid, why must we stick with this current pricing system? If the overwhelming majority think the 18% is good, what is the benefit of advertising one price instead of adding the 18% to the price to begin with? If it isn't to make the price more appealing to sell more cruises, then I don't know what it is.

I'm not intending for this to be a hostile subject and don't see why it needs to be.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

As I stated in my OP, they're all BUT mandatory. If I have to go to the desk and specifically request that I not be charged, what's the difference?

 

I don't understand. If you are going to pay them, why does it matter if they are included in your fare or if they are added to your account on a daily basis. If you don't want to pay them at the end of the cruise, you can pre-pay them when you make your final payment.

As I stated in my OP, they're all BUT mandatory. If I have to go to the desk and specifically request that I not be charged, what's the difference?

 

I along with nobody else seem to think that any of the staff don't deserve a good wage, be it through a higher wage or a lower wage plus tips. I'm not going to opt out of the tips. My point is if everyone agrees with the OVERALL price paid, why must we stick with this current pricing system? If the overwhelming majority think the 18% is good, what is the benefit of advertising one price instead of adding the 18% to the price to begin with? If it isn't to make the price more appealing to sell more cruises, then I don't know what it is.

 

I'm not intending for this to be a hostile subject and don't see why it needs to be.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

Cruise lines pay taxes. If they added the gratuities to the fare that would raise their taxes.

Why haven't you also mentioned the port fees that are added after the fare quote??? Those are also add-ons to the basic fare.

The reason it is a hostile subject is because it has been discussed to death. You are not the first to ask why the gratuities are not added to the fare.

Cruise lines pay taxes. If they added the gratuities to the fare that would raise their taxes.

 

 

 

Why haven't you also mentioned the port fees that are added after the fare quote??? Those are also add-ons to the basic fare.

 

 

 

The reason it is a hostile subject is because it has been discussed to death. You are not the first to ask why the gratuities are not added to the fare.

The taxes and fees are readily apparent within seconds of going through the cabin selection process.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

You are right...this has been beaten to death.

Tip as suggested, and everyone gets what they're supposed to get! Very easy.

If you want to give more, you certainly can. It's not needed, but go ahead!

Not again. :(

 

You must have read this before: The automatic gratuities also go to staff in the background that the customers don't usually see.

 

You don' like the way the cruise industry pays staff? Are you in a position to change this?

Actually that's not true, at least for the lines that I've seen disclose the breakup of who gets what, it only ever includes Stewards, waiters, their assistants etc that provide direct service.

Now it may be true of those who make no disclosure.

If you're so sure the topic has been beaten to death why bring it up again? The search feature would have answered your question.

But then you're also the one who started a thread for men to wear shorts in the MDR at dinner.

Do you want to sail on ships that pay crew decent wages? Sign on for a US flagged ship like NCL's Pride of America or one the Great Lakes ferries. Only problem is that NCL America has just that one ship. Because paying "decent wages" is something that many will advocate in the abstract as long as they themselves don't have to pay it.

Well,

You've read all the other tipping threads.

You've been on other internet forums that discuss tipping.

You are aware that this is an issue that crosses the spectrum.

 

I'm glad you had the opportunity to come to cruise critic to voice your special opinion.

The only thing you're going to get flamed for is bringing up the tipping topic, which has been "done to death" over and over and over and over again.

Thank you for starting the 1,000,000th thread discussing that old dead horse that's been beaten to death called "tipping".

You evidently were all being forced at gunpoint to read an obvious tipping thread....

If you're so sure the topic has been beaten to death why bring it up again? The search feature would have answered your question.

 

But then you're also the one who started a thread for men to wear shorts in the MDR at dinner.

 

Do you want to sail on ships that pay crew decent wages? Sign on for a US flagged ship like NCL's Pride of America or one the Great Lakes ferries. Only problem is that NCL America has just that one ship. Because paying "decent wages" is something that many will advocate in the abstract as long as they themselves don't have to pay it.

Probably because Pride of America doesn't go where I want to go?

Is it unreasonable for a person vacationing in the CARIBBEAN to be able to expect to wear shorts on a CARIBBEAN vacation and not have to pack 2 outfits for every single day? Does the desire to wear shorts infer whether one is a good tipper or not?

If this is a topic you don't want to discuss, you're free to scroll on past the thread title. I have been able to answer several questions by doing a forum search but if it's forbidden to start a new thread for something that's already been discussed, then the last new thread would probably be several years old. The reason I prefaced the thread the way I did was to show I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel or start a flame war.

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

...

 

Is it unreasonable for a person vacationing in the CARIBBEAN to be able to expect to wear shorts on a CARIBBEAN vacation and not have to pack 2 outfits for every single day? ...

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I've been on 5 cruises in the Caribbean (2 different lines) and there's never been a requirement for 2 outfits for each day. :confused: