Deceptive itinerary for St Petersburg

I signed up with one of the recommended tour groups for a 2 day shore excursion in St. Petersburg, but I kinda feel I've been deceived because the scheduled itinerary doesn't match the sample itinerary on their website.

For the sample itinerary, they're supposed to meet you at the ship on day 1 at 8:30AM and then you go on a city highlights tour from 8:30-10AM. At 10, you travel to Peterhof. And, then on day 2, you meet at the ship at 7:30 and then there's supposed to be another city highlights tour from 7:30-8:30AM.

And, the website does warn that "the itineraries below are samples. The actual start and end times of our tours are adjusted to coordinate with your ship's arrival and departure."

So, I figured that the scheduled times might be different from the sample itinerary but that you should still do all the same things in the sample itinerary.

But, on the scheduled itinerary they've given me after I sign up, my ship arrives at 8AM but they don't meet us until 9:30AM on the first day. At 10AM, we travel to Peterhof. But, this means that there's no longer a city highlights tour on day 1.

I thought this may have been a mistake where they gave me the wrong time to meet up on the first day, but they're telling me that the time is correct- the sample itinerary is only just a sample and that my scheduled itinerary has been adjusted to when my ship arrives and the days off for the museums.

Does that make sense to anybody? If my ship is arriving at 8AM, it seems like a wasted opportunity to not meet until 9:30AM and not begin the tour until 10AM?

Did this happen to anybody else for their tours? Did you have two city highlights drive tours on both days or just one city highlights tour on one day?

Am I being unreasonable or misinterpret their sample itinerary or something?

Perhaps the early starts are for ships which arrive earlier. It can take time to clear a ship after arrival and for passengers to clear immigration.

We visited St Petersburg last year - we had 3 days there as part of our cruise, and used one of the major companies ashore for an excellent 3 day package.

In our experience on the first day it was quite slow to get through Immigration, and we were on a relatively small ship - less than 700 passengers.

I noted the timings in my trip diary for the first day in St Petersburg:

7.30am Ship berthed

8.20am We exited the ship, in the first couple of dozen people after the ship was cleared for disembarkation. We were met straight away by our tour guide, but had to wait for the other two members of our group, who did not come through immigration until 9.05am.

We had been given a meeting time of 9am, but we got off the ship as soon as we could because we didn't know how long immigration would take.

There were still plenty of others disembarking after 9am.

If your ship berths at 8am, disembarkation may not start until 8.45am, and if you have a number of people in your group, and a large number of passengers to disembark and be processed by immigration, then 9.30am could well become a realistic start time for your tour.

The tour guides will be familiar with the ships, their size and the berthing times. They adjust start times accordingly. Our tour order was adjusted from the draft itinerary in order to maximum the time we had. It was very well organised and the guide was excellent.

Hopes this helps!

One thing that's deceptive worldwide is the quoted ship arrival times. Sometimes it's when disembarkation starts, sometimes it's when a ship arrives - which may mean that disembarkation can be an hour or so later.

Might be worth checking the port website, sites like Cruisett, and various TA's websites - if you find two times they're probably arrival & disembarkation times.

If several ships arrive about the same time, it's possible that immigration is staggered to make best use of the manpower.

Or the tour operator may have found that all too often there's one or two on a tour that are slow to head for the gangplank & get held up by the immigration line, as the kiwi found out. So they've adjusted the start time to avoid wasting their time or the time of others on the tour.

Does the revised itinerary have a correspondingly late finish time?

Does seem a shame though, that a tour doesn't start til 9.30. :(

JB :)

Deceptive? With what you have shared, I don't believe that this qualifies as deceptive in any manner. In fact, it appears that the later start on the first day is for the comfort of those on the tours.

I believe that the later start on day 1 is to compensate for the long immigration lines on the first day in port. People have complained about standing for a half hour or more in the immigration line on day #1, particularly when booked on one of the larger ships like Princess, NCL or RCCL. It looks like your tour company has accommodated its clients with a later start on the first day when the lines are the worst and it takes the longest for all passengers to disembark.

Your start time on day 2 should be earlier to compensate for the later start on day 1 and you should not lose any time whatsoever. Immigration goes much more smoothly on day #2.

However, if you don't like the start time of your tours, there are other choices out there and you can cancel your booking and choose another tour provider.

What the previous poster said. Because the two companies I am looking at offer essentially the same tours, I am choosing based on the slightly later day 1 start time because what I've read about possible immigration delays on day 1 and I'm a first-timer to St Petersburg. On day 2 these companies flip and the one that started earlier on day 1 starts later than the other on day 2.

I just checked the itinerary for the company we are using and on Day 1 we are picked up at 8:30am and returned to the ship at 5:30pm. On Day 2 we are picked up at 7:30am and returned to ship at 5pm and sailing off at 6pm. I presume there may be a possibility of this changing slightly but I wouldn't expect any dramatic changes.

Do you mind if I ask which company you are going with? Hope it all works out.

All such itineraries are subject to the ship's clearance and thus the vagaries of the various customs and immigration officials' moods and demeanours that day.

These are the same kind of people you find in international arrivals at Miami MIA!

If they find a slight problem in the paperwork, it could result in a big delay. But maybe not.

All quoted arrival times are approximate

I signed up with one of the recommended tour groups for a 2 day shore excursion in St. Petersburg, but I kinda feel I've been deceived because the scheduled itinerary doesn't match the sample itinerary on their website.

 

For the sample itinerary, they're supposed to meet you at the ship on day 1 at 8:30AM and then you go on a city highlights tour from 8:30-10AM. At 10, you travel to Peterhof. And, then on day 2, you meet at the ship at 7:30 and then there's supposed to be another city highlights tour from 7:30-8:30AM.

 

And, the website does warn that "the itineraries below are samples. The actual start and end times of our tours are adjusted to coordinate with your ship's arrival and departure."

 

So, I figured that the scheduled times might be different from the sample itinerary but that you should still do all the same things in the sample itinerary.

 

But, on the scheduled itinerary they've given me after I sign up, my ship arrives at 8AM but they don't meet us until 9:30AM on the first day. At 10AM, we travel to Peterhof. But, this means that there's no longer a city highlights tour on day 1.

 

I thought this may have been a mistake where they gave me the wrong time to meet up on the first day, but they're telling me that the time is correct- the sample itinerary is only just a sample and that my scheduled itinerary has been adjusted to when my ship arrives and the days off for the museums.

 

Does that make sense to anybody? If my ship is arriving at 8AM, it seems like a wasted opportunity to not meet until 9:30AM and not begin the tour until 10AM?

 

Did this happen to anybody else for their tours? Did you have two city highlights drive tours on both days or just one city highlights tour on one day?

 

Am I being unreasonable or misinterpret their sample itinerary or something?

Last year, we were on a private tour and Alla did the same thing to us. They are trying to manage times through immigration first day and canal tour availability. I really didn't like the idea of the early start day 2 and late start day 1. Our tour organizer went back and managed to get things adjusted a bit - getting the two days a bit more even again. However, I had planned for a somewhat independent night excursion first day for just my husband and myself...the negotiated itinerary made that difficult, so I dropped it.

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on the private tour companies vs cruise ship tours? I have heard that the people taking cruise ship tours get off the ship first? But they are also typically taking much larger groups?

Last year, we were on a private tour and Alla did the same thing to us. They are trying to manage times through immigration first day and canal tour availability. I really didn't like the idea of the early start day 2 and late start day 1. Our tour organizer went back and managed to get things adjusted a bit - getting the two days a bit more even again. However, I had planned for a somewhat independent night excursion first day for just my husband and myself...the negotiated itinerary made that difficult, so I dropped it.

Would you recommend the tour operator you went with?

cleobella -

There had been problems reported in years past of the ships not letting people on independent tours off first. However, I do not believe that this issue has been reported recently on any cruise line.

We took a private tour (just our family) and were able to jump lines at the entrances to museums (they limit how many large tour groups can enter at once, but seemed to allow smaller groups in immediately). Our family was small enough that we could maneuver around the larger tour groups and the sites weren't crowded for us. We were able to stop immediately whenever we got hungry, and could customize the itinerary, cutting out souvenir shopping since we didn't want to do this.

People on the larger private group tours (which are generally capped at 16 people I believe) can tell you their experiences.

The private tours are less expensive and waste less time than the ship tours (it takes awhile to get large groups boarded and unloaded on buses, and with larger groups you are going to need to take more frequent breaks, as people will need to use the facilities at different times. I have read some reviews in which people have experienced difficulties when passengers who aren't really mobile sign up anyway and they can only go through museums at a very slow pace. There is a lot of walking through the fountains at Peterhof, in Catherine's Palace and in the Hermitage)

I would recommend only signing up with one of the major, well established tour groups in St. Petersburg since they handle your visa paperwork. If a newer tour company folds, then you won't be let off the ship so it isn't worth the risk of using a less established company even though it will be cheaper.

We took a private tour (just our family) and were able to jump lines at the entrances to museums (they limit how many large tour groups can enter at once, but seemed to allow smaller groups in immediately). Our family was small enough that we could maneuver around the larger tour groups and the sites weren't crowded for us. We were able to stop immediately whenever we got hungry, and could customize the itinerary, cutting out souvenir shopping since we didn't want to do this.

Would you recommend the tour operator you went with?

It was one of the majors...and to tell you the truth, I think they are all about the same, so I would never recommend one over the other. Our guide was good and quite likable, but that was luck of the draw.

The above is coming from someone who absolutely hates organized tours. Unfortunately, visas just did not cost justify for the little time we had there.

Or the tour operator may have found that all too often there's one or two on a tour that are slow to head for the gangplank & get held up by the immigration line, as the kiwi found out. So they've adjusted the start time to avoid wasting their time or the time of others on the tour.

 

Does the revised itinerary have a correspondingly late finish time?

 

Does seem a shame though, that a tour doesn't start til 9.30. :(

It sounds like the tour really won't start until 10AM. 9:30AM is when you meet the guide, and you've still got to factor in another 15 minutes to wait for everybody else to show up despite the late time start. After that, there's not really any time for a city tour before we travel to Peterhof at 10.

If we had met the guide at 8:30 and waited 15 minutes for everybody, at least we'd still have more than an hour for a city tour.

The revised itinerary doesn't have a correspondingly later finish time because I'm presuming they wanted to get back to the ship early enough on the first day to make more money on evening excursions.

Although, I do realize that we do begin the 2nd day a half hour earlier so I'm not losing as much time as I initially thought. But, it still means that I've lost about 30 minutes. The sample itinerary promised 2.5 hours of city highlights drive tour on day 1 and day 2, but it seems like we're only going to do 1.5 hours of city highlights drive tour on day 2.

Ar you able to tell us which company you are using hobbess?

In recent years immigration officer staffing and more accommodating policies on the ship regarding independent tour member disembarkation, St Petersburg has become very fast in clearing passport control, about 5 times faster than a typical airport.

Clearance on docking takes 20-30 minutes and the first passengers off are usually through passport control in a few minutes. A 7:00 arrival would mean 7:30 or sooner for the first disembarkation. If it is a small group, and all of you leave together, you could be on the road 45 minutes from the time the ship ties down.

There are some things that can delay it, for example having some stragglers and no reserve vehicles to take late comers to the tour in progress. Make sure your tour guide/operator has that capability or your tour is only as fast in starting as the slowest person in the group.

Another factor is first destinations. For example many of the ship tours and large mass independents have to use early entry at the Hermitage which means thousands of people assembling and being herded through a limited time window of viewing a limited, abbreviated path where every person follows the same path. That can delay getting on with the tour by quite a bit. Crowding and time to get in various places depends a lot on the itinerary and whether it is a shared itinerary with hundreds or thousands following in small groups of 15-45 to the same places at the same time. If you have a customized itinerary that is not a standard one, you have a much better chance of avoiding crowds, and adding other activities not on the standard tour the larger companies adhere to, will mean avoiding crowds and delays.

I know one company ordered 760 Hermitage tickets from a supplier for one day, at the same time, the same time the ship bus tours are scheduled to enter so you can imagine the crowding that will be expected.

Create your own itinerary, look up what others have done and do the opposite if you want a less rushed and crowded excursion.

There are hundreds of great museums, palaces and activities so get creative, pick things you are really interested in and not just the set itineraries that have become standard. The city is too interesting, varied and fun to be stuck in cookie cutter programs. Visit non-cruise travel forums or web communities to see what others are doing on their land based exploration, you will get lots of ideas that open up options you don't read about here.

Same with evening activities, there is so much more than tourist ballet and a folkloric show that has no, even remote, relationship to St Petersburg. When was Cossack dance part of Northwestern Russia? Never, it is not even Russian. If you are a ballet lover and regularly go, book your cruise every early in the season, before the Stars of the White Nights so you can see world class ballet in one of the most revered theaters. Tourist ballet is not the same experience at all. Go explore or go to a jazz club or blues river cruise, there are supper clubs with shows, 8,000 fine restaurants. There are night openings of galleries and even St Isaac Cathedral. 15 years ago everyone had customized tours but now everyone just seems to goes with the flow just does the identical thing as everyone else on the ship. The two cities visited that have the most to offer yet are not really explored much are Berlin and St Petersburg.

spbstan-

When you write things like your last post you are most helpful. We have been to St Pete twice and took standard tours both times. We plan to go again next year and are looking at doing a customized tour. I'm already researching places to go :D.

<<<Karen>>>

Karen, you have an advantage in that you will not have to adhere to the defacto standard tours that have evolved over the last 15 years. since cruises ships started arriving in larger numbers. If you have any chance of returning on your own, by air or train, get the 3 year multiple entry visa because you would have the option of visiting without pre-planning any time you were in Europe. A visit now is a lot cheaper than in the past because of the weak ruble. A dollar or ruble goes a lot further, almost 1/2 price. The cruise ships, their tours and a few tour operators seem not to have gotten the message about lower costs however.

You can also do free form tours with free time if you plan your own shore visit from a cruise ship.

It is probably the most easily explored cities on the cruise, just getting out on foot and seeing what each block reveals. Signs are in both Latin characters and Cyrillic and there are so many iconic visual landmarks that are visible from almost anywhere in the city center that is very hard to get lost. If you did get lost, just ask the nearest teenager, probably knows English.

I think the biggest shame is coming all the way here and not meeting any locals who are not paid to entertain you and keep you away from experiencing the real culture. It is much more interesting for a visit that did interact with the city but that is how how standard tours evolved for cruise passengers. If got to experience more they would want to return for extended stays, and they would not be so convinced of some of the most obviously false myths that get passed on between cruisers.

There is no rule that limits tours to cookie cutter style rushed activities but that is what the recommended activities are. It IS possible to explore on your own if you wish on a cruise visa waiver.

Just FYI I did talk to a few different companies for tours and it seems that different ones do start at earlier times so if that is an issue for you, can't you switch?

If you are only there a couple days, you might as well get the plan you want : )

Jenn

We used TJ Travel for a private tour..just the two of us a guide & driver. We had no trouble being a few of the first off the ship (RCI) and walked quickly through immigration...our guide was waiting for us and we were on our way. The advantage of doing a "private" tour is we had to wait in "no" lines and went at our speed and had the flexibility to change up things on a moments decision. We had an amazing two day VIP tour..a truly trip/visit of a lifetime. Consider this way to get the most and see the most out of this amazing city with out being bogged down waiting for other's. TJ Travel (Tatyana & Julia the owner's) were amazing to work with. I had emailed several of the other companies and they were the first to respond..and I am so glad I had such a good gut feeling in all my emails to them. Enjoy whatever works for you.

Just FYI I did talk to a few different companies for tours and it seems that different ones do start at earlier times so if that is an issue for you, can't you switch?

 

If you are only there a couple days, you might as well get the plan you want : )

 

Jenn

Depending on who is also on your tour, or if you are doing a private tour, if you want to start earlier, tell the tour company your wishes.

Almost every company that is servicing St Petersburg will bend over backwards to make your tour as wonderful as possible. If that means wanting to get an earlier start, tell them and I'd bet they would accommodate you as best they could.

If you want something from your company, just speak up.

Cheers

Len

Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on the private tour companies vs cruise ship tours? I have heard that the people taking cruise ship tours get off the ship first? But they are also typically taking much larger groups?

We are booked on a private excursion in St. P. Here is what our tour provider wrote when we finalized our booking with them and they emailed our tour tickets:

"Sometimes our clients say that ships try to control disembarkation process stating that all those passengers having made their own independent arrangements must wait until the ship's own excursion passengers have exited first. The ship has no right to hold its passengers aboard against their will. In fact there is no difference for Russian Сustoms between passengers booked with ship sponsored excursion and passengers booked with a private one. That means you can disembark at the time specified in your tour ticket."

I intend to bring a print out of the email from which I quoted to show the cruise staff if they try to interfere. Hopefully any pushback from cruise staff will be brief and end in our favor.

Here's our itinerary:

Good morning from St Petersburg! Hope all is going well.

Please kindly find the timing for both days. We shall certainly be flexible and get adjusted on the spot if necessary. The tour order may vary due to the traffic situation in the city these days.

June 21st - Sunday 08.30AM - 4.45PM

08.30- 09.15 Drive to the Hermitage museum

09.15 - 11.30 Tour of the Hermitage museum (early opening)

11.30 - 14.00 Drive around the city, several photo stops and inside visits to St Isaac's and Spilled Blood Cathedrals, Peter and Paul Fortress

14.00 - 14.30 Drive to Grand Hotel Europe

14.30 - 16.00 Brunch time at the restaurant

16.00 - 16.45 Drive back to the ship, time at leisure

Evening

19.00 - 19.45 Drive to Alexandrinsky or Hermitage theatre

20.00 - 22.45 Ballet performance and a glass of champagne at the intermission

23.00 - 00.30 Time on your own in the city center

00.30 - 01.00 Return to the ship

Please note that due to the draw bridges in St Petersburg during the navigation period it is necessary to cross the Neva River to the Port territory side before approx 1.00AM because after that time the bridges will be put down only around 3.00AM for several minutes.

June 22nd - Monday 08.30AM - 5.00PM

08.30 - 09.30 Drive to Pushkin

09.30 - 10.30 Tour of Catherine palace (early opening)

10.30 - 11.30 Tour of the Catherine Park

12.00 - 13.30 Time for lunch at Podvorie restaurant (the exact time is TBA closer to the date)

13.30 - 14.00 Drive to Peterhof

14.00 - 15.00 Tour of Grand Palace

15.00 - 15.45 Tour of the Lower Park with Fountains

15.15 - 17.00 Drive back to the ship

The cost of the services will be USD 794.00 for both days which includes a private AC van for both days, services of an English-speaking guide, entrance fees to the Hermitage, Spilled Blood and St Isaac's Cathedrals, Peter & Paul Cathedral, Catherine palace in Pushkin, Peterhof Grand palace and Lower Park, photo/video charges where applicable.

The cost of a private van with a guide for the evening tour will be USD 110.00 bulk. The cost of a ballet ticket to Alexandrinsky or Hermitage theatre will be USD 70.00 per ticket, total cost for 7 of you will be USD 490.00.

Meals are not included, you will have brunch at Grand Hotel Europe and lunch at Podvorie. You will be able to pay directly to the restaurants, they accept major credit cards.

The total cost of the services for both days including the evening ballet performance will be USD 1394.00 bulk.

Bollinge - if you'd booked as seven individuals for a regular 2-day tour a year or two back, the cost would have been more than double.

Because of the fall in the rouble I'm out of touch with prices, but they certainly haven't halved, so it looks to me like you got a pretty good deal on the tour :), & around even-money on the ballet plus that post-ballet free time in town.

There's one complication worth pointing out, though I can't advise.

The quoted price is in USD, so paying in roubles is open to dispute on exchange rates. But paying cash in USD won't get you as good an exchange rate as your card supplier, and I have no idea whether even a card that doesn't normally charge foreign-exchange fees, like Halifax Clarity or Nationwide Select, will charge for payment in USD in Russia on a sterling account.

We kept life simple by taking US dollars, but for seven of you that's likely to be quite an expensive way of doing it.

Worth investigating the cost of the various options?

BTW, a lot of bars & outlets in St Petersburg don't accept plastic or foreign currencies. Might be worthwhile taking at least a few roubles for a drink or three post-ballet. You can use-up left-over roubles toward the lunch next day or for the guide's tip.

Super city, have a good one

JB :)