Fincantieri Shipyard Seized, including Vista

5000 workers sent home.

Huge whoops.

Story in Huffington Post

5000 workers sent home.

 

Huge whoops.

 

Story in Huffington Post

The article does not mention anything about the Vista. It only says parts of the ship yard.

Article about the seizure. http://www.ansa.it/english/news/business/2015/06/30/parts-of-fincantieri-shipyard-seized_3efc2763-66e3-4c7e-b654-8aa542aaf1ec.html

(ANSA) - Trieste, June 30 - Carabinieri police on Tuesday made a court-ordered preventive seizure of areas of Italian shipbuilding company Fincantieri's shipyard at Montefalcone in northern Italy as part of a probe into alleged illegal waste management at the site.

Seven people including the former shipyard manager Carlo De Marco have been placed under investigation in the probe launched by local prosecutors in May 2013. The other suspects are subcontractors operating at the site.

Fincantieri said Tuesday it would take all appropriate legal measures to have the seizure repealed.

Meanwhile, it was "forced" to suspend all activities at the shipyard, it said.

Approximately 4,500 people are employed on the site including Fincantieri workers and employees of its subcontractors.

Of these, only those in charge of systems maintenance - roughly 100 people - will remain in service.

The probe concerns the use by subcontractors of a temporary dump made available by Fincantieri for storage of production waste prior to disposal. Prosecutors argue all the companies and not just Fincantieri needed proper authorisation to handle the waste - authorisation which they allegedly did not have.

The waste in question was not damaging to human health, Fincanieri said.

Isn't a ship still owned by the shipyard until after sea trials? I always thought there was some kind of ceremony when the ownership is transferred to the cruise line. If the shipyard's assets are seized, that would include the Vista.

Isn't a ship still owned by the shipyard until after sea trials? I always thought there was some kind of ceremony when the ownership is transferred to the cruise line. If the shipyard's assets are seized, that would include the Vista.

That is correct. The ship still belongs to Fincantieri until after the sea trials when they more-or-less hand over the keys.

Isn't a ship still owned by the shipyard until after sea trials? I always thought there was some kind of ceremony when the ownership is transferred to the cruise line. If the shipyard's assets are seized, that would include the Vista.

I havent heard that it was accepted yet by Carnival and apparently a lot of work left to be done so the shipyard still owns it.

Will be interesting to see how this play out.

I havent heard that it was accepted yet by Carnival and apparently a lot of work left to be done so the shipyard still owns it.

 

Will be interesting to see how this play out.

This is true

I havent heard that it was accepted yet by Carnival and apparently a lot of work left to be done so the shipyard still owns it.

 

Will be interesting to see how this play out.

It will all be over by the weekend.

It will all be over by the weekend.

I don't know. I guess it depends on the waste practices containment or disposal.

Sounds, well, you know.

Glad we are not booked on her first cruise. this might take a long time to sort out.

Glad we are not booked on her first cruise. this might take a long time to sort out.

This can go either way. I do believe they pad in extra time, as well as Europe cruises, just in case there are any delays. All the new ships launched early. The Sunshine, well, who still thinks that was new?

This can go either way. I do believe they pad in extra time, as well as Europe cruises, just in case there are any delays. All the new ships launched early. The Sunshine, well, who still thinks that was new?

If we booked the first cruise would be worried. After the Sunshine fiasco cant imagine booking the inagurual cruise out of that shipyard.

If we booked the first cruise would be worried. After the Sunshine fiasco cant imagine booking the inagurual cruise out of that shipyard.

Okay, you guys aren't helping my anxiety! We are booked on the inaugural cruise! Apparently I missed something important about the Sunshine's inaugural run...:( I keep telling myself that this will be over shortly with no ill effect on our cruise. I'm closing myself into Tripland where everything is sunny and perfect!

Okay, you guys aren't helping my anxiety! We are booked on the inaugural cruise! Apparently I missed something important about the Sunshine's inaugural run...:( I keep telling myself that this will be over shortly with no ill effect on our cruise. I'm closing myself into Tripland where everything is sunny and perfect!

Sunshine cancelled its first cruise and than sailed with a few hundred contractors still putting the ship back together again.

Okay, you guys aren't helping my anxiety! We are booked on the inaugural cruise! Apparently I missed something important about the Sunshine's inaugural run...:( I keep telling myself that this will be over shortly with no ill effect on our cruise. I'm closing myself into Tripland where everything is sunny and perfect!

Well you know what they say, Murphy's law.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. :rolleyes:

I'm sure they allowed time for delays. Hopefully this delay won't go passed on what they planned for.

Okay, you guys aren't helping my anxiety! We are booked on the inaugural cruise! Apparently I missed something important about the Sunshine's inaugural run...:( I keep telling myself that this will be over shortly with no ill effect on our cruise. I'm closing myself into Tripland where everything is sunny and perfect!

Sunshine cancelled its first cruise and than sailed with a few hundred contractors still putting the ship back together again.

As someone mentioned above, Sunshine wasn't a new build but rather a total renovation of an older ship, a renovation so extensive they decided to change the name of the ship from Destiny. That project was fraught with problems from the beginning due to lack of original plans for Destiny and all the modifications that had been done in the intervening years. And there were also reports (not sure how substantiated) of worker slowdowns and outright destruction of the goods to be installed on the ship (televisions, etc.). So, don't compare what happened with Sunshine to Vista's situation - it's a new build and assuming this situation with Fincantieri can be resolved soon, the current schedule should not be in much jeopardy.

Not good news for the Carnival Vista:

Link from Il Piccolo:

http://ilpiccolo.gelocal.it/trieste/cronaca/2015/07/01/news/fincantieri-resta-chiusa-entrano-solo-150-impiegati-1.11706214

"Not to mention the very serious consequences not only for the image for the likely delay in the delivery of orders. Currently under construction in Monfalcone are the Carnival Vista, the flagship of the group, launched only last week that was to get out of the basin and should be delivered in April next year. Then there is being built the Princess Cruises, the MSc Seaside whose "cut sheet" took place last week, but the backlog of the plant there is also a second unit for the same MSc."

You seem to have missed the point: the Sunshine renovation was a bit of a nightmare (reference Drydock Dave's reports at the time) and really cannot be compared to a new build with accurate, documented specs and plans from which to work. If Vista is delayed, I am doubtful it will be due to any of the issues that Sunshine experienced but rather due to Fincantieri's problems with Italian government entities. Apples and oranges in terms of reasons for delays.

 

BTW, welcome to CC.

You missed my point. The reason for a delay is irrelevant, whether it be from vandalism (Sunshine), engine malfunctions (Freedom of the Seas) or possibly [to be determined] from a shipyard seizure (Vista).

It can delay a ship's inaugural sailing with already booked passengers and can cause certain sailings to be canceled with vacations interrupted. Guests could have their reservations altered or canceled to accommodate contractors to finish the work needed and guests can experience unusual amout of leakage, smells and broken show elements, including emergency lighting.

Apples to apples: a delay is a delay and confirmed passengers should be hopeful everything remains on track with a small cushion built in.

Okay, I've been watching this thread, and posted on the other thread about this, but I'll weigh in here. Appears that a couple of posts from joepeka and allenm015 may have gone "poof", or it may be my browser acting up, but from the last post, let me say a couple things.

If Sunshine was delayed due to lack of original plans and plans of the modifications over the years, that is Carnival's fault, not Fincantieri's as full plans are supplied at delivery, and Carnival's refurbishment technical department should have documented the changes subsequent to building. So I say, shame on Carnival. The sabotage was caused because of disputes between the yard and labor, but again, should have been caught by Carnival's on site team in the early stages, and not "at the last moment" as Mr. Cahill's statement suggests. So, enough said about Sunshine.

Now, Vista is not scheduled for delivery until March/April next year. That means there is a lot of work still to do, which is true for any ship that has just been launched, but particularly a cruise ship.

Will this case be settled quickly? Given the snail's pace that the Concordia trial took, with court recesses, national vacations for lawyers, etc, I wouldn't hold my breath.

Will this affect the delivery date? Maybe, and that depends more on Carnival than the Italian courts. There is enough time until delivery to allow for added workers and contractors to work extra shifts to complete Vista on time, but that of course costs more. How the contract between Fincantieri and Carnival is worded on cost/time overruns is unknown, but someone would have to pay the bill to speed up the process, and if they are not willing to pay, then the time line will slip.

In some instances, the completion process may not be able to be speeded up, as there may be limits on how many workers you can stuff into an area, how much damage one craft working in the same area may cause to another craft's work, or whether sub-contractors or suppliers have shifted production schedules because of Fincantieri's delay, and will require time to retool.

My professional opinion at this time is that there may be a delay in delivery, or there may be significant unfinished work at delivery as there was with Sunshine. Any work stoppage like this during a ship's building process is not a good thing. There can also be damage to the work already completed because areas are not sealed or climate controlled during the delay.

Okay, I've been watching this thread, and posted on the other thread about this, but I'll weigh in here. Appears that a couple of posts from joepeka and allenm015 may have gone "poof", or it may be my browser acting up, but from the last post, let me say a couple things.

 

 

 

If Sunshine was delayed due to lack of original plans and plans of the modifications over the years, that is Carnival's fault, not Fincantieri's as full plans are supplied at delivery, and Carnival's refurbishment technical department should have documented the changes subsequent to building. So I say, shame on Carnival. The sabotage was caused because of disputes between the yard and labor, but again, should have been caught by Carnival's on site team in the early stages, and not "at the last moment" as Mr. Cahill's statement suggests. So, enough said about Sunshine.

 

 

 

Now, Vista is not scheduled for delivery until March/April next year. That means there is a lot of work still to do, which is true for any ship that has just been launched, but particularly a cruise ship.

 

 

 

Will this case be settled quickly? Given the snail's pace that the Concordia trial took, with court recesses, national vacations for lawyers, etc, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

 

 

Will this affect the delivery date? Maybe, and that depends more on Carnival than the Italian courts. There is enough time until delivery to allow for added workers and contractors to work extra shifts to complete Vista on time, but that of course costs more. How the contract between Fincantieri and Carnival is worded on cost/time overruns is unknown, but someone would have to pay the bill to speed up the process, and if they are not willing to pay, then the time line will slip.

 

 

 

In some instances, the completion process may not be able to be speeded up, as there may be limits on how many workers you can stuff into an area, how much damage one craft working in the same area may cause to another craft's work, or whether sub-contractors or suppliers have shifted production schedules because of Fincantieri's delay, and will require time to retool.

 

 

 

My professional opinion at this time is that there may be a delay in delivery, or there may be significant unfinished work at delivery as there was with Sunshine. Any work stoppage like this during a ship's building process is not a good thing. There can also be damage to the work already completed because areas are not sealed or climate controlled during the delay.

Thanks for the input. Italy does move at a snails pace on things. All that being said, it is mainly a wait and see type of thing.

So if the Vista is late and won't be ready will we get our money back? Like our airline tickets?I just spent 2400 on them. Who will come good for that?

So if the Vista is late and won't be ready will we get our money back? Like our airline tickets?I just spent 2400 on them. Who will come good for that?

Maybe and maybe not. Probably not the airline fare.

The Carnival ticket contract says that if they cancel the cruise at the port of embarkation, you will get your cruise fare returned. However, another clause says that if the "performance of the proposed voyage" is hindered by " war, hostilities, blockage, ice, labor conflicts, strikes on board or ashore, restraint of Princes, Rulers or People, seizure under legal process, breakdown of the Vessel, congestion, docking difficulties or any other cause whatsoever", then "if the Guest has not embarked, Carnival may cancel the proposed voyage without liability to refund passage money or fares paid in advance." This may not be applicable, since the ship is not owned by Carnival yet, so the seizure is of a Fincantieri asset.

Getting airfare refunded would depend on how much Carnival wants to spread goodwill.

Okay, I've been watching this thread, and posted on the other thread about this, but I'll weigh in here. Appears that a couple of posts from joepeka and allenm015 may have gone "poof", or it may be my browser acting up, but from the last post, let me say a couple things.

 

If Sunshine was delayed due to lack of original plans and plans of the modifications over the years, that is Carnival's fault, not Fincantieri's as full plans are supplied at delivery, and Carnival's refurbishment technical department should have documented the changes subsequent to building. So I say, shame on Carnival. The sabotage was caused because of disputes between the yard and labor, but again, should have been caught by Carnival's on site team in the early stages, and not "at the last moment" as Mr. Cahill's statement suggests. So, enough said about Sunshine.

 

Now, Vista is not scheduled for delivery until March/April next year. That means there is a lot of work still to do, which is true for any ship that has just been launched, but particularly a cruise ship.

 

Will this case be settled quickly? Given the snail's pace that the Concordia trial took, with court recesses, national vacations for lawyers, etc, I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

Will this affect the delivery date? Maybe, and that depends more on Carnival than the Italian courts. There is enough time until delivery to allow for added workers and contractors to work extra shifts to complete Vista on time, but that of course costs more. How the contract between Fincantieri and Carnival is worded on cost/time overruns is unknown, but someone would have to pay the bill to speed up the process, and if they are not willing to pay, then the time line will slip.

 

In some instances, the completion process may not be able to be speeded up, as there may be limits on how many workers you can stuff into an area, how much damage one craft working in the same area may cause to another craft's work, or whether sub-contractors or suppliers have shifted production schedules because of Fincantieri's delay, and will require time to retool.

 

My professional opinion at this time is that there may be a delay in delivery, or there may be significant unfinished work at delivery as there was with Sunshine. Any work stoppage like this during a ship's building process is not a good thing. There can also be damage to the work already completed because areas are not sealed or climate controlled during the delay.

thanksfor sharing you sure know your stuff.

As I recall from Sunshine threads, workers were sabatoging the rebuild destroying parts. There was a very interesting thread on this and amazing what was going on.

So if the Vista is late and won't be ready will we get our money back? Like our airline tickets?I just spent 2400 on them. Who will come good for that?

I certainly can understand your concern. For now, I think you have to sit tight. For what it is worth, when events of this nature (not specifically a new build, but cancellations) happen Carnival has very much been on the positive side in terms of what is offered as compensation (compared to other cruise lines, despite their contractual obligations). For now, let's sit tight and hope it gets resolved. The ball is in Fincantieri's court now, not Carnival's.