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NTSB report just out on shore excursion accident in 2015.


kennicott
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NTSB report out today, for Ketchikan accident. "A floatplane pilot for a Ketchikan-based air tour operator and the company's safety "culture" were directly responsible for the 2015 crash that kiled the pilot and eight Holland America cruise-ship passengers on a shore excursion, the National Transportation Safety Board found Tuesday."

"Board members also discussed competitive and time pressures among air tour operators in Ketchikan, including the fact that Promech's flights were running too late on the day of the crash to return by the 12:30 p.m. "all-aboard" time for Westerdam passengers to leave Ketchikan. Missing the deadline meant Promech would have to transport the passengers to their ship's next port of call at its own expense."

"Lives depended on the pilot's decision making," Sumwalt said in the NTSB statement. "Pilot decisions are informed, for better or worse, by their company's culture. This company allowed competitive pressure to overwhelm the common-sense needs of passenger safety in its operations. That's the climate in which the accident pilot worked."

 

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/aviation/2017/04/25/ntsb-blames-flightseeing-pilot-employer-safety-culture-for-crash-near-ketchikan-that-killed-9/

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I'd already decided some time ago.....no helicopters and no small planes

 

Having done one float plane, I agree with you. I wasn't anxious to get back in the air. I wasn't one who loved the view from the air either, though most do.

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I was on a Misty Fjord flight shortly after that accident. Pilot was extremely careful and we felt very safe. We actually flew over the crash site. Accidents can happen on any excursion....busses, cars, trains, planes...doesn't matter. Why deny yourself a wonderful experience just because an accident happened in the past? Ships have also had problems....does that keep you from sailing?

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Our glacier float plane flight is from Juneau on 8th May, thanks for that cheery message [emoji52]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

We used Wings Airways in Juneau 6 years ago and can't brag enough about the tour. The Taku Lodge Feast & 5 Glacier Discovery Tour was awesome! I was a little concerned that it would be a rough flight but my concerns were definitely not warranted. We had a very smooth flight and everyone had a window to enjoy the beautiful glaciers. Our pilot seemed extremely skilled and safety conscious. Would do this one again in a heartbeat.

 

Kathy

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We used Wings Airways in Juneau 6 years ago and can't brag enough about the tour. The Taku Lodge Feast & 5 Glacier Discovery Tour was awesome! I was a little concerned that it would be a rough flight but my concerns were definitely not warranted. We had a very smooth flight and everyone had a window to enjoy the beautiful glaciers. Our pilot seemed extremely skilled and safety conscious. Would do this one again in a heartbeat.

 

Kathy

 

 

That's the one we have booked Kathy. Did the bear come to the salmon grill? [emoji846]

 

 

countdown.pl?image=alaska&name=GrumpyNormanG&date=5-6-2017&text=&ship=Nieuw Amsterdam

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That's the one we have booked Kathy. Did the bear come to the salmon grill? [emoji846]

 

 

countdown.pl?image=alaska&name=GrumpyNormanG&date=5-6-2017&text=&ship=Nieuw Amsterdam

 

No, we didn't get to see the bear just a few dogs. lol We did, however, see evidence on that a bear (or bears) had been there. Enjoyed the fresh grilled salmon and the short hike that we took on the property. So beautiful and peaceful!

 

Just a little tip - you can sit shotgun on the plane. We didn't realize it until someone else sat up there. We all had awesome views, but seems like that front seat would have been optimum.

 

I hope you enjoy the tour as much as we did.

 

Kathy

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We used Wings Airways in Juneau 6 years ago and can't brag enough about the tour. The Taku Lodge Feast & 5 Glacier Discovery Tour was awesome! I was a little concerned that it would be a rough flight but my concerns were definitely not warranted. We had a very smooth flight and everyone had a window to enjoy the beautiful glaciers. Our pilot seemed extremely skilled and safety conscious. Would do this one again in a heartbeat.

 

Kathy

 

We're doing this excursion on our cruise June 8th....I am most excited about this excursion and will be bummed if it gets cancelled due to weather, but better safe than sorry! We'll have a back up plan if it does indeed get cancelled...can always get out to Mendenhall or find a whale tour, Alaska Brewery.....lots of options. We're also doing the Deadliest Catch in Ketchikan, Dyea Dave in Skagway, Kenai Fjords Tour in Seward, Horseback riding Knik River, Matanuska Glacier Hike, Float Raft trip down Kenai River.

 

We're spending a day in Victoria and 2 days in Vancouver pre-cruise. Counting down....39 days to go!

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We're doing this excursion on our cruise June 8th....I am most excited about this excursion and will be bummed if it gets cancelled due to weather, but better safe than sorry! We'll have a back up plan if it does indeed get cancelled...can always get out to Mendenhall or find a whale tour, Alaska Brewery.....lots of options. We're also doing the Deadliest Catch in Ketchikan, Dyea Dave in Skagway, Kenai Fjords Tour in Seward, Horseback riding Knik River, Matanuska Glacier Hike, Float Raft trip down Kenai River.

 

We're spending a day in Victoria and 2 days in Vancouver pre-cruise. Counting down....39 days to go!

 

Sounds like you have some really good excursions planned. Hopefully the weather will cooperate, but as you say, better safe than sorry. At least there are other things of interest in Juneau if it were to be cancelled.

 

We are flying out on May 14 to spend a few days in Vancouver before we set sail on May 17. With the help of a couple of locals on another CC thread and some research on my own, we have a nice itinerary planned for our visit there.

 

We also will be doing Dyea Dave in Skagway, taking us up to Emerald Lake, etc., However, we are opting to take the train back to town. I'm really looking forward to this tour.

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I fly every time in Alaska, my upcoming trip, have 3 flights planed and may pick up a walk up 4th out of Lake Hood. Nothing beats the vastness and beauty from the air. My whole adult life had planes involved, my husband was a private pilot with a 1/3 ownership of a Cessna, just my way of life.

 

It is not for everyone- I've seen way too many people on my trips that never should have stepped foot on the plane. Be true to yourself.

 

I did see the plane take off in 2007 from Ketchikan, involved in another fatal crash. I'm just find with the risks involved at this point and won't stop flying.

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I agree, flying in both small aircraft and helicopters in Alaska is indeed safe. I don't hesitate in taking flights-sees. I spent 12 years flying commercially on the coast of Alaska and in the interior without ever having an accident or injuring a passenger. My brother did the same for a much longer period as well. We all know the story of skud running pilots and the associated competitive pressures placed upon them to push weather. Much has been accomplished to improve this problem. However, I do question contemporary cruise line shore excursion practices and procedures in Southeast Alaska today. I believe the cruise ship industry ought to begin working with air taxi firms in making adjustments.

It seems lessons would be learned from some of these accidents. But an accident with a lot of similarities to this 2015 turbo Otter seaplane one, occurred in 1994 near Juneau:

"On 22 June 1994, a float equipped Dehavilland, DHC-3 Otter, N13GA, registered to and operated by Wings of Alaska of Juneau Alaska, crashed into the Taku Inlet, 12 miles east of Juneau. The Air Taxi flight, operating under 14 CFR Part 135 by a Commercial Certificated pilot, last departed the Taku Lodge located on the Taku River, and the destination was the Juneau downtown dock near cruise ships which were awaiting many of the lodges guests to return. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident and a company flight plan was in effect. The airplane received substantial damage. Seven passengers received fatal injuries and the pilot and three passengers received serious injuries.

 

Five aircraft departed a lodge, one behind the other. Fog and drizzle were encountered, and the pilot of the first aircraft radioed to the pilots of the other aircraft to cross the river to the east shoreline. A passenger in the fourth aircraft (N13GA) stated that when the aircraft was over the middle of the river, she could not see either shore due to fog. The pilot of N13GA (a floatplane) stated that he encountered deteriorating weather & started a descent, intending to make a precautionary landing. He began to level, expecting conditions to improve. Subsequently, the floatplane hit the surface of 'glassy water' and crashed. PROBABLE CAUSE: "VFR flight by the pilot into instrument meteorological conditions (IMC), and his failure to maintain altitude (clearance) above the surface of the river. Factors related to the accident were: the adverse weather conditions, and the surface condition of the river (glassy water)." https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001206X01412&ntsbno=ANC94FA070&akey=1

 

And then, just a few weeks after the June 25, 2015 disastrous accident, "On July 17, 2015, about 1318 Alaska daylight time, a turbo Cessna 207A airplane, N62AK, sustained substantial damage following an in-flight collision with tree-covered terrain about 18 miles west of Juneau, Alaska. The commercial pilot sustained fatal injuries, and four passengers sustained serious injuries." http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/07/cessna-207a-wings-of-alaska-n62ak.html

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My most memorable shore excursion was the float plane trip into Misty Fjords. I never had flown in such a small plane and certainly not on a float plane. Not inexpensive, even in 1996, but that trips ranks as the best money I have ever spent on a shore excursion. Only my trip to see the Terra Cotta Soldiers in Xian could compare for enjoyment received!

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I have flown in Ketchikan with Carlin Air, Southeast Aviation, Family Air, and Taquan, all excellent and memorable trips with very experienced pilots. The flight with Taquan was booked through the cruise line, the others were excursions I booked directly with the local companies themselves. Here are some photos of our flight with Dave Rocke of Family Air in Ketchikan a few years ago. The photos were taken in late June:

 

The plane, and no, it wasn't the pilot who was drinking all that beer. He was making a delivery to a fishing lodge out in the wilderness somewhere:

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/beerrun.jpg

 

 

Some views:

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ketchikan6.jpg

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ketchikan4.jpg

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ketchikan3.jpg

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ketchikan2.jpg

 

 

We landed on one of the mountain lakes and got to walk around a little:

 

https://twocruisingsisters.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/ketchikan5.jpg

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However, I do question contemporary cruise line shore excursion practices and procedures in Southeast Alaska today. I believe the cruise ship industry ought to begin working with air taxi firms in making adjustments.

 

What type of adjustments?

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What type of adjustments?

 

Okay, very good question. I was about to launch into a detailed diatribe but then, I asked myself, has the person asking this question actually read the accident reports concerned with those in question here besides the one the NTSB just released? If so, then they might likely be able to answer some of their own questions. Anyway, a little repeat with links, after that we talk:

"I agree, flying in both small aircraft and helicopters in Alaska is indeed statistically safe. I don't hesitate in taking flights-sees most of the time. I spent 12 years flying commercially on the coast of Alaska and in the interior without ever having an accident or injuring a passenger. My brother did the same for a much longer period as well. We all know the story of skud running pilots and the associated competitive pressures placed upon them to push weather. Much has been accomplished to improve this problem. However, I do question contemporary cruise line shore excursion practices and procedures in Southeast Alaska today. I believe the cruise ship industry ought to begin focusing on this as their requirements obviously exacerbate the hazard. They should begin working with air taxi firms in making adjustments.

It seems lessons would be learned from some of these accidents. But an accident with a lot of similarities to this 2015 turbo Otter seaplane one, occurred in 1994 near Juneau. "On 22 June 1994, a float equipped Dehavilland, DHC-3 Otter, N13GA, registered to and operated by Wings of Alaska of Juneau Alaska, crashed into the Taku Inlet, 12 miles east of Juneau. The Air Taxi flight, operating under 14 CFR Part 135 by a Commercial Certificated pilot, last departed the Taku Lodge located on the Taku River, and the destination was the Juneau downtown dock near cruise ships which were awaiting many of the lodges guests to return. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident and a company flight plan was in effect. The airplane received substantial damage. Seven passengers received fatal injuries and the pilot and three passengers received serious injuries.

Five aircraft departed a lodge, one behind the other. Fog and drizzle were encountered, and the pilot of the first aircraft radioed to the pilots of the other aircraft to cross the river to the east shoreline. A passenger in the fourth aircraft (N13GA) stated that when the aircraft was over the middle of the river, she could not see either shore due to fog. The pilot of N13GA (a floatplane) stated that he encountered deteriorating weather & started a descent, intending to make a precautionary landing. He began to level, expecting conditions to improve. Subsequently, the floatplane hit the surface of 'glassy water' and crashed. PROBABLE CAUSE: "VFR flight by the pilot into instrument meteorological conditions (IMC), and his failure to maintain altitude (clearance) above the surface of the river. Factors related to the accident were: the adverse weather conditions, and the surface condition of the river (glassy water)." https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20001206X01412&ntsbno=ANC94FA070&akey=1

And then, just a few weeks after the June 25, 2015 disastrous accident, "On July 17, 2015, about 1318 Alaska daylight time, a turbo Cessna 207A airplane, N62AK, sustained substantial damage following an in-flight collision with tree-covered terrain about 18 miles west of Juneau, Alaska. The commercial pilot sustained fatal injuries, and four passengers sustained serious injuries." http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/07/cessna-207a-wings-of-alaska-n62ak.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

The NTSB written report on this accident was finally published: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR1702.pdf Excerpts:

 

"4.1 New Safety Recommendations

To the Federal Aviation Administration:--------

 

 

"Analyze automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast data from Ketchikan air tour operations on an ongoing basis and meet annually with Ketchikan air tour operators to engage in a nonpunitive discussion of any operational hazards reflected in the data and collaborate on mitigation strategies for any hazards identified. (A-17-42)

 

 

Develop and implement special operating rules for the Ketchikan air tour industry that include en route visual flight rules weather minimums that are tailored to the industry’s unique requirements and are more conservative than those specified in 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 135. (A-17-43)

 

To Cruise Lines International Association:

Encourage your members that sell air tours as shore excursions to review the circumstances of this accident and to consider ways to mitigate associated risks. (A-17-44)"

 

Board Member Statement---Member Christopher A. Hart filed the following concurring statement on May 1, 2017:------

 

"Nonetheless, by analogy here, the big picture would suggest that two other participants that are involved in this situation – the cruise ship operators and the Medallion Foundation – should work with the carriers in an effort to create a sightseeing program that eliminates financial incentives to carriers to take more risk. The cruise ship operators make the flight services available to the passengers, and the Medallion Foundation was created to help improve the safety of the carriers in Alaska, so they, in addition to the carriers, have a vested interest improving the safety of the sightseeing carriers by eliminating these adverse incentives.

 

Time Pressure. Another issue in this accident was the time pressure that was created by the agreement between the cruise ship operator and the sightseeing carrier that if the carrier returned passengers too late to catch the ship, the carrier would be responsible, at its expense, for timely delivery of the passengers to the cruise ship’s next port of call, which might be several hundred miles away. In this accident the pressure to return the passengers to the ship in time clearly played a key role in the pilot’s decision to take a shorter but obviously more dangerous route back to the ship.

 

 

As with the adverse safety incentives, the cruise ship operators and the Medallion Foundation should work with the carriers to develop agreements that eliminate this time pressure because they all have a vested interest in improving safety. The program would need to be more comprehensive than simply enlarging the time window because the problem, although it might be less frequent, could still occur."

 

Acting Chairman Sumwalt and Members Weener and Dinh-Zarr joined in this statement.

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