Thomas Keller NY Times review

WOW

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/dining/pete-wells-per-se-review.html

Interesting article. Maybe he has his hands in too many projects and has lost focus. Seems to happen fairly often with chefs, who instead of sticking to the kitchen, build empires and no longer actually oversee the kitchen.

Aside from this, I have repeatedly asked why Seabourn needed to sign a partnership deal with him (from what I've been told was a significant amount of $, not counting the different uniforms for the crew in the Colonnade on TK nights, different plates, glasses, etc.) or some other name chef, who will never actually cook your meal on one of the ships. I realize other lines are associated with various name-brand chefs, but I never had an issue with the food on Seabourn in the past, and while I liked some of the new offerings, the association would not make me choose to sail on Seabourn by itself.

I have to wonder why SB has entered into a venture with a celeb chef.

IME once the chef spreads their wings beyond their first venture things begin to slide, the more they become celebrity the less they become a chef and the enterprise takes on a "McDonalds" approach.

IME (and i've had a lot of visits to world wide top restaurants) many are good initially but once they end up with waitlists for bookings and return clientele is not as important then they begin to drop the ball.

I also wonder if they realise that TK is far from a well known name in some areas of the world that have a large customer base for SB?

IME a good chef given good ingredients and a free hand can usually come up with some spectacular dishes... he/she just doesn't feel the love when asked to follow another recipe

I have to wonder why SB has entered into a venture with a celeb chef.

 

IME once the chef spreads their wings beyond their first venture things begin to slide, the more they become celebrity the less they become a chef and the enterprise takes on a "McDonalds" approach.

 

IME (and i've had a lot of visits to world wide top restaurants) many are good initially but once they end up with waitlists for bookings and return clientele is not as important then they begin to drop the ball.

 

I also wonder if they realise that TK is far from a well known name in some areas of the world that have a large customer base for SB?

 

IME a good chef given good ingredients and a free hand can usually come up with some spectacular dishes... he/she just doesn't feel the love when asked to follow another recipe

Does the name Charlie Palmer ring a bell with you? This isn't Seabourns first go round with a name brand chef.

Somewhat unrelated it seems the author of that review likes to produce hit pieces on celebrity chefs/owners.

See for example his review of Guy Fieris restaurant - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/dining/reviews/restaurant-review-guys-american-kitchen-bar-in-times-square.html

I only "know" the name Charlie Palmer because I've sailed on Seabourn. Same with this TK......NEITHER are well known outside the USA!

Charlie Palmer is the same thing...

They are well known but IME not necessarily outside of the US.....

We never sailed SB during the CP days.. the food we had was quite good but not spectacular... I suspect had we sailed over the last few months then I wouldn't be considering a return....

Maybe we need to wait until TK has been done over ;)

Cross posting Gran ;)

Edited to add...

Perhaps the reviewer like me has had enough experience of what happens when good restaurants and chefs go viral....

Charlie Balmer, Thomas Killer, who cares? Just cook my steak to spec, will 'ya? Sounds like a reach for SB these days. Just in time for my next cruise. Lovely, can hardly wait.

We have always avoided the "precious" restaurants with celebrity chefs. After reading this review, I don't have high hopes for the direction Seabourn is taking. Ultimately, a name means nothing. There was a terrific German chef on our Med. cruise about 4 years ago. He had owned a 1-star Michelin restaurant in Hamburg…. a quiet man with really good intuition about food. As much as he could deviate from the "plan" he did. It was a particular pleasure to go shopping with him, which we did twice. They should have given him the reins. Based on my experience, the one-star chefs are the people who really, really work hard to show their stuff, putting terrific food on your plate, and with real care. The 2-stars are looking for the 3rd star, and the 3-star have become complacent and arrogant. Daniel Boulud's restaurant in NY is where we had the most expensive and one of the worst meals of our lives, not to mention the overall experience. We waited over an hour for our table, so they offered us a glass of champagne, and then they charged us for it! They actually, physically, moved our table, causing the water glasses to tip over and the contents to spill in our laps. Not a single apology. Quite the reverse, the waiter said it was our fault because my foot was in the way. Where was the NYTimes that night?

Until his name appeared on this forum I had never heard of Mr Keller. That said I welcome the opportunity to try a few dishes inspired or created by him, particularly as I can do it for no additional cost.

Like the Grand Salon I can metaphorically sit at the back of the room and give it a go. If I like what I see I stay, if I don't then I can quietly slip out back to familiar surroundings.

I really do struggle to understand why people are so critical. Seabourn are trying to add value to your cruise whilst leaving your sacred bread sticks untouched and doing so without charging a supplement. You get a whole day on board for the price of lunch at Per Se.

Henry :)

. You get a whole day on board for the price of lunch at Per Se.

 

Henry :)

But will I get 13 other days of very ordinary food as a result ???

I like to choose my fine dining venues and I can say without question that I would never have booked at per se...

Cosme maybe, Gabriel Kreuther possibly

But will I get 13 other days of very ordinary food as a result ???

 

I like to choose my fine dining venues and I can say without question that I would never have booked at per se...

 

Cosme maybe, Gabriel Kreuther possibly

No, you won't. Seabourn aren't giving up on the rest of the ship. Who knows, possibly it will breath life into the kitchen, teach cooks new skills which they can carry through to dishes outside the TK menu.

I wouldn't pay to see Opera but on two separate occasions I found myself drawn into Lee Bradley's Tenor recital. You might just find something in there which tickles your taste buds. If not there are other items on the menu and different dining venues.You could even ask the kitchen to prepare you something specifically given notice.

For me this isn't a p1ssing competition about which chef is more worthy of praise, it's about another couple of food options during a holiday on board a boat.

I wouldn't dream of ordering 2 starters because I couldn't decide which I fancied the look of at a land based restaurant but I've done it on a cruise. You can let your guard down a bit on the basis you'll never see these people again - well except for the people you see again on another sailing :)

Henry :)

Bear in mind, Henry, that I am pretty sure that there is no TKing yet on Sojourn. Several trustworthy people have said that recently Odyssey has had various problems, which seem to be thanks to the gradual introduction of the TK menus. Passengers on Odyssey have been guinea pigs to a system which is not yet working properly - this should not happen. I appreciate it is difficult with ships always being 'at work' but I think could have been better handled.

I think Quest is to have some work done during dry dock in April, possibly introducing new cooking methods for the TK Ad Hoc food, which will then be rolled out in full?? on 23rd April. Eventually I expect all will be well, but it is still a work in progress.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has been doing an Antarctic on Quest recently - and also on how these cruises have been generally.

Passengers on Odyssey have been guinea pigs to a system which is not yet working properly - this should not happen. lincslady.

Quite agree with your comment. SB must re-establish itself as the best cruise line. If it doesn't it will lose valuable passengers.

Kind regards,

Tony

We live in the metro NYC area ad have dined at Per Se. I quite agree with this review. We do not plan to return there.

We also have given up after several visits to Daniel. We had better service than the above poster describes, pretty plates but the same final opinion. They are very, very impressed with themselves. Of course, Boulud has 11+ [i have lost count] restaurants.

If SB felt the need to align with a name chef, perhaps they should have done a bit more research and even some 'sea trials' to see what worked.

well you can be pretty sure if the NYT is critical of something - it probably means it's pretty darn good. these people generally know nothing but how to be critical. that's why they type and act pretentious - because they can't cook. listen to them at your own peril.

i applaud seabourn's efforts to "energize" their offering. i quite liked the TK dishes. in the MDR some of the dishes were very unique and imaginative. "Le Homard de Vin" comes to mind. it's very clever. i didn't personally care for every choice, but everyone i tasted was well constructed and almost perfectly executed (in my opinion).

the care that is taken in procuring and handling special ingredients and some of the advanced techniques that are being used in the kitchen to prepare these are the stuff of 2 or 3 michelin stars. admittedly a challenge to do all this on a floating hotel traveling all over the world - but kudos to seabourn for allowing us the chance to enjoy these offerings.

i also really like the ad-hoc style dinners at the colonnade. it will be good for seabourn to inject a little "fun" into the experience - i love the casual family style service, the wine tumblers, the staff uniforms. makes for a really pleasant evening out on the rail! in fact the only time i felt like a guinea pig was when enjoying the rib eye dinner there (well make that simply a pig!).

of course, a few glitches are going to happen. but they will work out the bugs. i give them credit - seabourn needs to look forward and inject some new energy and cache into the brand as they roll out their new ships. i'm looking forward to see how this all evolves!

We are on Odyssey now and fully enjoyed the 3 course TK menu in the MDR last night.

At this point in the development of the TK offering I can state unequivocally that the chefs and wait staff are very enthusiastic and proud about this addition to the Seabourn experience. It's all about attention to detail, the best possible selection and use of ingredients, and a degree of sophistication that is contagious. So it seems to me that in the few months since TK was first introduced the concepts and applications have taken hold successfully. Oh, and I hasten to add, Chef Rajah is executing superb cuisine - TK and "normal" Seabourn fare - across all the dining venues, too!

Everyone might as well withhold their opinions until they have partaken of a couple of repasts here on board. Like me, you will "get it" only when you observe

first hand how is all works. And it is working now very well indeed!

Happy sailing from the South Pacific one day from Fakarawa!

We are on Odyssey now and fully enjoyed the 3 course TK menu in the MDR last night.

 

At this point in the development of the TK offering I can state unequivocally that the chefs and wait staff are very enthusiastic and proud about this addition to the Seabourn experience. It's all about attention to detail, the best possible selection and use of ingredients, and a degree of sophistication that is contagious. So it seems to me that in the few months since TK was first introduced the concepts and applications have taken hold successfully. Oh, and I hasten to add, Chef Rajah is executing superb cuisine - TK and "normal" Seabourn fare - across all the dining venues, too!

 

Everyone might as well withhold their opinions until they have partaken of a couple of repasts here on board. Like me, you will "get it" only when you observe

first hand how is all works. And it is working now very well indeed!

 

Happy sailing from the South Pacific one day from Fakarawa!

Many thanks for the positive review. Chef Rajah is an outstanding chef so your positive comments do not surprise me in the slightest. With luck he will put on an evening of Indian cuisine.

well you can be pretty sure if the NYT is critical of something - it probably means it's pretty darn good. these people generally know nothing but how to be critical. that's why they type and act pretentious - because they can't cook. listen to them at your own peril.

 

i applaud seabourn's efforts to "energize" their offering. i quite liked the TK dishes. in the MDR some of the dishes were very unique and imaginative. "Le Homard de Vin" comes to mind. it's very clever. i didn't personally care for every choice, but everyone i tasted was well constructed and almost perfectly executed (in my opinion).

 

the care that is taken in procuring and handling special ingredients and some of the advanced techniques that are being used in the kitchen to prepare these are the stuff of 2 or 3 michelin stars. admittedly a challenge to do all this on a floating hotel traveling all over the world - but kudos to seabourn for allowing us the chance to enjoy these offerings.

 

i also really like the ad-hoc style dinners at the colonnade. it will be good for seabourn to inject a little "fun" into the experience - i love the casual family style service, the wine tumblers, the staff uniforms. makes for a really pleasant evening out on the rail! in fact the only time i felt like a guinea pig was when enjoying the rib eye dinner there (well make that simply a pig!).

 

of course, a few glitches are going to happen. but they will work out the bugs. i give them credit - seabourn needs to look forward and inject some new energy and cache into the brand as they roll out their new ships. i'm looking forward to see how this all evolves!

Thanks for that.

Henry

We are on Odyssey now and fully enjoyed the 3 course TK menu in the MDR last night.

 

At this point in the development of the TK offering I can state unequivocally that the chefs and wait staff are very enthusiastic and proud about this addition to the Seabourn experience. It's all about attention to detail, the best possible selection and use of ingredients, and a degree of sophistication that is contagious. So it seems to me that in the few months since TK was first introduced the concepts and applications have taken hold successfully. Oh, and I hasten to add, Chef Rajah is executing superb cuisine - TK and "normal" Seabourn fare - across all the dining venues, too!

 

Everyone might as well withhold their opinions until they have partaken of a couple of repasts here on board. Like me, you will "get it" only when you observe

first hand how is all works. And it is working now very well indeed!

 

Happy sailing from the South Pacific one day from Fakarawa!

Again, thanks for that.

Henry

I can't wait to try the TK options when I board the Encore when it leaves Athens.

New ship,new restaurant,what's not to like and a Sushi restaurant.

Life's good everyone,isn't it.

I can't wait to try the TK options when I board the Encore when it leaves Athens.

New ship,new restaurant,what's not to like and a Sushi restaurant.

Life's good everyone,isn't it.

Couldn't agree more.

We join Encore in Dubai but will start our trip on Sojourn in Nov so we arrive in Dubai 2 weeks before you arrive in Dubai. That will make for some interesting talking points when we settle into the new ship.

We look forward to seeing you again then! It's hard to believe that it's been 13 months since John Delaney presented Encore to us at the luncheon hosted jointly by our TA and Seabourn.

Happy sailing!

We join Encore in Dubai but will start our trip on Sojourn in Nov so we arrive in Dubai 2 weeks before you arrive in Dubai. That will make for some interesting talking points when we settle into the new ship.

 

 

 

We look forward to seeing you again then! It's hard to believe that it's been 13 months since John Delaney presented Encore to us at the luncheon hosted jointly by our TA and Seabourn.

 

 

 

Happy sailing!

Indeed Markham,and a very nice lunch it was at The Connaught.

I couldn't resist getting on in Athens and bedding the ship in for those of you getting on in Dubai for the Christmas trip.[emoji12]

There are a lot of us that know each other on At Christmas and another couple that we know are joining in Athens.

Hope all is going well,please send my love to Julie and Keith

MrL,

Right now Julie is sitting next to me at Seabourn Square "preshopping" for black pearls before our stops in Fakarawa and Rangiroa. I won't tell Keith, of course.

Happy sailing!

We are on Odyssey now and fully enjoyed the 3 course TK menu in the MDR last night.

 

 

 

At this point in the development of the TK offering I can state unequivocally that the chefs and wait staff are very enthusiastic and proud about this addition to the Seabourn experience. It's all about attention to detail, the best possible selection and use of ingredients, and a degree of sophistication that is contagious. So it seems to me that in the few months since TK was first introduced the concepts and applications have taken hold successfully. Oh, and I hasten to add, Chef Rajah is executing superb cuisine - TK and "normal" Seabourn fare - across all the dining venues, too!

 

 

 

Everyone might as well withhold their opinions until they have partaken of a couple of repasts here on board. Like me, you will "get it" only when you observe

 

first hand how is all works. And it is working now very well indeed!

 

 

 

Happy sailing from the South Pacific one day from Fakarawa!

Markham - would it be possible for you to post some menus? Not necessarily whilst you are on board - don't want to use up your valuable internet time!