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Legal Aspect of Smoking on Cruiseship?


jackjia199637
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Is that pedway system not owned by Saint John, if so there is your answer, it is an enclosed city public space. I'd have to bet that if you looked up your bylaws they have included that space in their write up.

 

Because technically it doesn't fall under the current ban for Canada or the ban for the province of N.B., so I'd bet the city has it somewhere in their paperwork.

 

Parts of it may be owned by the city, but other parts are owned by the private businesses the hallways run through (Brunswick Square, Market Square, etc.)

 

Have you ever been there? It's basically like walking through a closed mall.

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Irregardless of smoking preference, I think this is curiously interesting! Based on some of the info here, why then does the casino close, or more specifically, not operate while in port?

 

By-laws prohibiting gambling and not wanting to comply with federal regulations about how much must be paid out (I'm iffy on the second part, a friend of mine who works in a casino tried to explain to me the rules on how much they're required to pay out and apparently cruises are notoriously lower than land based casinos, but a lot of it went over my head, to be honest).

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To anyone thinking this thread has merit at all in Canadian waters. The provincial/municipal bans that the OP has brought up, fall under the same enforcements as a city leash law on your dog.

 

Also the $300 mention is actually an Ontario bylaw figure (OP is from Toronto, Ontario and I think is confused on what is a federal law and provincial bylaw), not Vancouver's. Vancouver's "break the smoking" regulation bylaw is $250.

 

We are not talking about breaking Canadian laws that throw you in jail and throw away the key.

 

And I may be off here, but I'm pretty sure our waters off the coast fall under federal jurisdiction "Canadian waters" not the city.

Edited by che5904
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Have you ever been there? It's basically like walking through a closed mall.

 

No I haven't yet had the pleasure. I haven't seen much of Saint John since I was 3 (and a ton of things have changed since then ;)). On our cruise to the east coast, we grabbed a rental car and headed for Gagetown. So pretty well the most I seen lately of Saint John is the highway.

 

But as I said if you research your City bylaws you will probably find it covered in there, the same as Ottawa's is.

 

"workplace: means any enclosed area of a building or structure in which an employee works and includes washrooms, corridors, lounges, eating areas, reception areas, elevators, escalators, foyers, hallways, stairways, amenity, areas, lobbies, laundry rooms and parking garages utilized by an employee."

Edited by che5904
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Casino may not be offically open but you never see the doors closed. On some ships the casino is a right of way public easement for traveling through. How's that for lawyer talk.

 

And if they did close the doors and forced me to detour around or up and over and kept me from my rightful enjoyment of that easement then that would be a causa belli.

 

On MSC Divina the casino is non smoking so that completely violates the smoke filled casino act of NCL and others.

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On MSC Divina the casino is non smoking so that completely violates the smoke filled casino act of NCL and others.

 

The casino on Divina is usually nonsmoking. However, the casino manager and/or pit bosses have the authority to allow smoking at gaming tables with actively playing/spending smokers.

 

It's all about the $$$.

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Just for the record . People smoke in the casino when it is open , closed and any time in between ...

 

Ok , thats it for me . Im going to look for a Tray thread..

 

I didn't know this actually. You mean I froze up on deck for nothing, when we were in non-international waters? I didn't realize it double as a smoking lounge, we've only used it to gamble.

 

That's too bad, we'll miss you, don't get lost among the trays.

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Casino may not be offically open but you never see the doors closed. On some ships the casino is a right of way public easement for traveling through. How's that for lawyer talk.

 

And if they did close the doors and forced me to detour around or up and over and kept me from my rightful enjoyment of that easement then that would be a causa belli.

 

On MSC Divina the casino is non smoking so that completely violates the smoke filled casino act of NCL and others.

 

Not sure whether that made a drop of sense or not but it sounded very impressive :)

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I feel compelled to respond to this message as I am sick and tired of all of the smoking threads and comments. If you do not like it, stay at home! Since when did we turn this into a "legal matter". Are smokers not allowed to travel because you don't like it... too bad! I do not like people who wear too much perfume, so should I start a thread that says so?

... give me a break people!

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No I haven't yet had the pleasure. I haven't seen much of Saint John since I was 3 (and a ton of things have changed since then ;)). On our cruise to the east coast, we grabbed a rental car and headed for Gagetown. So pretty well the most I seen lately of Saint John is the highway.

 

But as I said if you research your City bylaws you will probably find it covered in there, the same as Ottawa's is.

 

"workplace: means any enclosed area of a building or structure in which an employee works and includes washrooms, corridors, lounges, eating areas, reception areas, elevators, escalators, foyers, hallways, stairways, amenity, areas, lobbies, laundry rooms and parking garages utilized by an employee."

 

Yeah, so like I said - it's likely "technically" not allowed, but I doubt they'd ever try to enforce it.

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That's too funny :D What's the old dazzle them with brilliance line? :)

 

Funny that - I thought that the b stood for 'bovine excrement' - not brilliance. Obviously I have a lot to learn about the legal 'system' on the other side of the pond.:rolleyes:

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Funny that - I thought that the b stood for 'bovine excrement' - not brilliance. Obviously I have a lot to learn about the legal 'system' on the other side of the pond.:rolleyes:

 

Nope the line is if you can't dazzle them with brilliance you have to baffle them with the other. Me thinks there was a lot of baffling there.

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And THIS is why I come back to Cruise Critic every frellin' day. Every time you think there can't possibly be something new for people to ask... someone comes up with something!

 

Richard

 

Well now, where else could you get this type of entertainment for free. Sometimes these boards are better than a comedy show.

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NCL's smoking policy still allows smoking on balconies. I think only one other cruise line allows this. We love NCL, but don't like this policy, but most of the time we don't notice smoke.

 

What about smoking on the ship?

We want you to be comfortable on board, so public areas throughout all our ships are smoke-free. If you smoke regular or electronic cigarettes, you can do so on your balcony, in the casino or in the Cigar Bar (where available). If you prefer pipes or cigars, you can smoke in the Cigar Bar or designated smoking lounge. Also, you can smoke cigarettes, pipes and cigars outside on open decks (just not around food venues, sports decks, kids’ pool areas and other designated nonsmoking areas). Smoking inside your stateroom will result in a $250 cleaning charge added to your onboard account.

 

If you’re 18 through 20 years of age and you have the written consent of your parents or guardian (parent or guardian must be on board), you can purchase beer or wine for yourself only when the ship is sailing in international waters (except on Alaska and Hawai‘i cruises where you must be 21 years of age to consume or purchase alcohol of any kind).* If you want to gamble in our casinos, you must have a valid ID showing you are 18 years or older. If a Guest under the age of 18 wins in the casino and cannot provide proof of age, he or she will not be paid the winnings. There is no casino on Pride of America.

 

Electronic cigarettes cannot be used in public areas where there is a No Smoking policy in force; simply because these cigarettes look so realistic and therefore other guests’ perception is that we are not enforcing the No Smoking rule.

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NCL's smoking policy still allows smoking on balconies. I think only one other cruise line allows this.

 

.

 

There are 4 that I know of at this moment, but one will be restricting it as of next month on their balconies.

 

So to my knowledge there are still 3. So lots of other lines that people can choose if this bothers them.

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NCL's smoking policy still allows smoking on balconies. I think only one other cruise line allows this. We love NCL, but don't like this policy, but most of the time we don't notice smoke.

 

What about smoking on the ship?

We want you to be comfortable on board, so public areas throughout all our ships are smoke-free. If you smoke regular or electronic cigarettes, you can do so on your balcony, in the casino or in the Cigar Bar (where available). If you prefer pipes or cigars, you can smoke in the Cigar Bar or designated smoking lounge. Also, you can smoke cigarettes, pipes and cigars outside on open decks (just not around food venues, sports decks, kids’ pool areas and other designated nonsmoking areas). Smoking inside your stateroom will result in a $250 cleaning charge added to your onboard account.

 

If you’re 18 through 20 years of age and you have the written consent of your parents or guardian (parent or guardian must be on board), you can purchase beer or wine for yourself only when the ship is sailing in international waters (except on Alaska and Hawai‘i cruises where you must be 21 years of age to consume or purchase alcohol of any kind).* If you want to gamble in our casinos, you must have a valid ID showing you are 18 years or older. If a Guest under the age of 18 wins in the casino and cannot provide proof of age, he or she will not be paid the winnings. There is no casino on Pride of America.

 

Electronic cigarettes cannot be used in public areas where there is a No Smoking policy in force; simply because these cigarettes look so realistic and therefore other guests’ perception is that we are not enforcing the No Smoking rule.

 

 

NCL, Carnival and Holland America..quite a large share of the market still allow smoking on balconies.

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Aww... C'mon. The OP asks a thought provoking question. And it's a question that maritime workplace regulators have been asking. Take a look at this:

 

http://www.ukchamberofshipping.com/media/filer/2012/10/09/03-12-12_smoking_guidelines.pdf

 

Now, I DO want know if a NCL ship is docked in a Canadian port, can Canadian laws around the quality of the SYRUP on board be enforced?

 

Hehe. Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

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Now, I DO want know if a NCL ship is docked in a Canadian port, can Canadian laws around the quality of the SYRUP on board be enforced?

 

Hehe. Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

 

That would only apply in the ships that port in Quebec, since that's the only place that would care about anyone using the term "maple syrup" for something that doesn't meet our great Maple syrup standard.

Edited by che5904
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Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal.

 

Washington state also has a highly restrictive smoking law, and a few years ago I submitted this question to the department in Seattle responsible for enforcement. Their response was that they believed Washington's law DOES apply to cruise ships when in WA state waters, but since such ships rarely stay overnight, they supposed that enforcement would be difficult as a practical matter. Nevertheless, they encouraged people to submit well-documented complaints.

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I know this is a hot topic. But my curiosity is in the legal aspect of the smoking on cruiseship.

 

Shouldn't casino and most spaces on board be considered as Public Space, so isn't it illegal to smoke in public spaces when ship docked in ports like Vancouver in Canada where smoking in public space is illegal.

 

I would hire a lawyer

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Canada Place is part of Port Metro Vancouver operations which operates under federal law so the City of Vancouver's anti-smoking by-law wouldn't be enforceable.

 

If there was a federal law covering that it would have to be port police or perhaps the RCMP to do the enforcement.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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