Conflicting information

Hi

We have been told by some to only do ship's tours for St Petersburg, mentioning visa problems, then others have said it's OK to book independent companies. We have always gone for local companies and are now struggling to decide.

Please can I ask for help here.

Thank you experts

You don't need a visa if you book with an independent company. That has been confirmed by many people who have done them.

Personally, I have very rarely seen anyone claim that it needs to be a ship tour. Whoever that is mentioned, the information seems to have originated from cruise line employees.

Book an independent tour and don't worry about it.

You don't need a visa if you book with an independent company. That has been confirmed by many people who have done them.

 

Personally, I have very rarely seen anyone claim that it needs to be a ship tour. Whoever that is mentioned, the information seems to have originated from cruise line employees.

 

Book an independent tour and don't worry about it.

I've all-too-often come across inaccurate assertions that a visa is required unless you take a ship's tour.

And yes, it comes from cruise lines or those mis-led by the cruise lines.

Cruise lines are very crafty.

They'll say that if you use ship's tour you don't need a visa, but if you want to go ashore independently you do need one.

That's true - depending on the interpretation of "independent".

Yes, if you want to wander off and explore by yourselves you need a visa.

But what cruise lines fail to tell you is that tours organised by accredited local operators (Alla, TJ, SPB, DenRus, Red Oktober & all the others mentioned on this forum) have the same visa-free status as ships' tours.

Princess take "mis-leading" information one step further. They say you can only go ashore visa-free if you take ship's tour - and that's simply a downright bare-faced lie.

IMHO and ITOOOOTF, tours provided by local operators are generally cheaper and, more importantly, far better than ships' tours. All in 16-seat vans, much more personal, flexible, quicker (boarding & alighting at each stop, and thro the traffic), and incorporating things impossible for larger groups such as Peterhof by hydrofoil rather than bus, and a subway ride.

You do have to pre-book (the tour ticket e-mailed to you gets you thro immigration without a visa), but you pay nothing (and don't even quote credit card details) until the second day - they trust you.

Some folk still lack confidence and stick to ships' tours. They do miss out, but ships' tours in St Petersburg are still far better than in many places in the world - hardly surprising, since they're provided to the cruise lines by the same excellent local operators

JB :)

ITOOOOTF - in the opinions of others on this forum ;)

We just used SPB tours in St Petersburg for a 2 day tour and did not need a visa. Our tour was cheaper than the ships and had half the amount of people, better food and less waiting time. Complete no brainer

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

We did the 2 day Comfort Tour with Alla Tours, which was excellent. All documentation sorted for us.

As others have noted here there is no need to do a ships tour. You can book with any of a number of agencies you will see listed on this board, Alla, TJ, SPB, etc. What you do not want to do unless you are an experienced and very independent traveler is try to tour on your own. Not that it cannot be done but it requires getting your own Visa as well as arranging everything yourself and what you cannot do is just walk off the ship on your own like you would do in virtually any other port.

John Bull has laid it all out for you and he's 100% correct on every detail.

I am on Arcadia at the end of August and I have booked Alla Tours. They requested passport details and we have downloaded our tour tickets that they made available on our Alla account. Our tour tickets are our "visas".

Worked out about £50 cheaper each for the 2 day grand tour as opposed to what P and O are offering for the small group tour.

In fact the cruise companies use the local tour guides that also freelance or work casually for the local firms, so the extra £50 is probably factoring in a cruise ship profit, don't you think? ;)

under no circumstances does it HAVE to be a ship's tour in order to provide a visa. Independent tour companies can do the same thing, and they will issue you a tour ticket to present to immigration. But often, cruise lines like to make it SOUND like their excursions are your only option.

RCL held those of us on independent tours in the dining room until they decided to let us disembark. Apparently they didn't hold us until all ships tours had departed, because some of those didn't depart for a long time.

We think JB is being too kind to the cruise lines. When it comes to St Petersburg, many cruise lines are worse then sharks....in that they either mis-inform their cruisers or just do not give them any info. The cruise lines really want to sell their own excursions, which are marked-up to such a degree as to give them a hefty profit. The reputable private tour companies can usually provide a better tour, at substantially lower prices, for much smaller groups (or even individuals). And the licensed private tour companies do cover all their cruise customers under a group visa...at no additional cost to the cruiser.

Another game played by the cruise lines is to try and delay anyone, with private tours, from getting off the ship. We have even heard some tales of cruise staff telling folks they cannot depart the ship unless they are on a cruise line excursion (this is just not true). Some tour companies are now even warning customers (in advance) not to be swayed by the cruise line propaganda (a good word to use in Russia.

Hank

Hi

We have been told by some to only do ship's tours for St Petersburg' date=' mentioning visa problems, then others have said it's OK to book independent companies. We have always gone for local companies and are now struggling to decide.

Please can I ask for help here.

 

Thank you experts[/quote']

 

 

I have been on this board for many years, and your comment just keeps coming up. As JB said, the cruise lines try and scare you into believing that you MUST use their tours to tour St Petersburg. As all my fellow posters have said, just not so.

 

You didn't mention who gave you that false info, but we just assume it was some one from the cruise line.

 

You came here for advice and you have gotten it wisely. You certainly can book a tour thru the cruise line but it is not your only option to see St Petersburg and probably not your best option.

 

Cheers

 

Len

under no circumstances does it HAVE to be a ship's tour in order to provide a visa. Independent tour companies can do the same thing, and they will issue you a tour ticket to present to immigration. But often, cruise lines like to make it SOUND like their excursions are your only option.

 

RCL held those of us on independent tours in the dining room until they decided to let us disembark. Apparently they didn't hold us until all ships tours had departed, because some of those didn't depart for a long time.

Did any long time participant on this board make note of the name or the email of the St. Petersburg port official that posted for a while trying to get information about behavior like RCL's behavior? We need to get in touch with him so he can go after RCL for behavior that is totally illegal. Until the recent references to RCL's behavior, Princess won the prize for unethical tactics.

Did any long time participant on this board make note of the name or the email of the St. Petersburg port official that posted for a while trying to get information about behavior like RCL's behavior? We need to get in touch with him so he can go after RCL for behavior that is totally illegal. Until the recent references to RCL's behavior, Princess won the prize for unethical tactics.

It does little good to complain. Apparently, the Russian authorities do not want to get involved in what happens on the ships...and draw the line at the end of thee gang plank. So the Russian authorities could care less whether you are coming off a ship as part of a cruise line tour (covered under their group Visa) or simply walk off on your own and have the paper work for a private tour/Visa...or even have your own personal Visa. To the authorities, they are just processing bodies and they just want to ascertain that you can legally leave the ship (anyone with a group or personal visa and valid Passport would be legal).

We have seen unethical tactics on many cruise lines (we have cruised on 14 lines) and not just in Russia. On some ships we have heard port lecturers (who work for the tour company that gets a franchise on the ship) try to scare folks from even going ashore in places like France, Italy, and Greece. In Rio de Janeiro, on a Celebrity cruise, the port lecturer and the cruise line staff went out of their way to scare folks away from a famous jeweler (the best in Rio) because that jeweler would no longer play the game and pay promotional fees. Go figure.

So to reiterate (many cruisers do not understand this issue), the cruise lines promote their own excursions because they are very profitable. In fact, some of those excursions are so overpriced as to be near ridiculous. In most cases the cruise lines have a contract with a private company who staffs the onboard tour desk, provides the port/shopping lectures, handles to booking of all excursions, and pays the cruise line a nice percentage. Since this third party company must make a nice profit, the cruise line must make a nice profit, and the shore excursion company must also make a nice profit...one can quickly get the picture of why costs are high. But if you book a private shore excursion directly with the shore provider, you are cutting out the cruise line and the cruise line's contractor. So, most of the time you will get a much better price...plus you have many more tour options. Given all these facts, is it any wonder that some Port Lecturers will subtlety (sometimes not so subtle) try to dissuade passengers from doing anything on their own (including scratching their own arm)

One might also consider that when any tour company (or professional tour guide) takes you to a shop, restaurant, or just about anything....they (and/or their company) are getting some kind of promotional consideration from that establishment. We know one "jewelry factory" in Egypt that actually increases their prices for cruise ship excursions...to cover their additional cost to payoff the tour company. And this is not a unique situation. So while there are some good reasons to book a cruise line excursion (or any excursion) one should do so with the knowledge of how it all works.

Hank

It does little good to complain. Apparently, the Russian authorities do not want to get involved in what happens on the ships...and draw the line at the end of thee gang plank. So the Russian authorities could care less whether you are coming off a ship as part of a cruise line tour (covered under their group Visa) or simply walk off on your own and have the paper work for a private tour/Visa...or even have your own personal Visa. To the authorities, they are just processing bodies and they just want to ascertain that you can legally leave the ship (anyone with a group or personal visa and valid Passport would be legal).

I was motivated to track down the thread I mentioned in post #12, and I succeeded. Here's the link to the September 2015 thread by someone who used a posting name of MrKaplan. He wrote, "My name is Kirill and I work in commercial department of "Passenger Port Saint-Petersburg "Marine façade". I am NOT connected to tour companies in any way and my only goal at this stage is to make services better INSIDE the Port."

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2261960

MrKaplan hasn't come back on this board since his 2015 posting so your pessimistic post about a lack of Russian interest in solving cruisers' problems may be 100% correct. I'm not quite so ready to give up and may even do a bit more sleuthing about Passenger Port Saint Petersburg marine facade to see if we can get MrKaplan back on this board.

Admittedly, inside the port isn't the same as inside the ship! Ultimately, there may be little the SPB port authority can do to change the bullying tactics of cruise lines like RCL. However, it seems wrong to give up without even trying.

I was motivated to track down the thread I mentioned in post #12, and I succeeded. Here's the link to the September 2015 thread by someone who used a posting name of MrKaplan. He wrote, "My name is Kirill and I work in commercial department of "Passenger Port Saint-Petersburg "Marine façade". I am NOT connected to tour companies in any way and my only goal at this stage is to make services better INSIDE the Port."

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2261960

 

MrKaplan hasn't come back on this board since his 2015 posting so your pessimistic post about a lack of Russian interest in solving cruisers' problems may be 100% correct. I'm not quite so ready to give up and may even do a bit more sleuthing about Passenger Port Saint Petersburg marine facade to see if we can get MrKaplan back on this board.

 

Admittedly, inside the port isn't the same as inside the ship! Ultimately, there may be little the SPB port authority can do to change the bullying tactics of cruise lines like RCL. However, it seems wrong to give up without even trying.

We have seen quite a few of your previous posts and know that you do know your away around the cruise business (from a passenger perspective). Over our forty+ years of extensive cruising (and literally hundreds of port calls) we cannot recall a single instance of a port trying to solve cruiser problems. In fact, many ports (Livorno quickly comes to mind) seem to go out of their way to make cruise passengers life as difficult as possible. On HAL we have even had 1 port (Sousse, Tunesia) hold our ship hostage for about 2 hours....in an attempt to collect a bribe from the ship (which was refused). In another port (Brazil) the local police raided our Azamara cruise ship and seized all the fine jewelry from the shop (we later heard it was not returned) because they "claimed" the shop did not list every single stone on the form required by the authorities! In the Port of NYC, the Longshoreman refused to take our luggage at noon (on embarkation day) because they said "it is our lunch hour and HAL did not pay for an extra gang to work lunchtime."

We could list other examples of Ports "taking an interest in cruise passengers" and it would not be pretty :(. And if you think any port will interfere in internal ship policy (vis-a-vis passengers) I have a bridge to sell you that is located in the middle of the Sahara Desert :).

Hank

RCL didn't do anything to hinder passengers once they had disembarked and were walking to the port to go through immigration. We were going to wait until the ship was cleared and then walk off, but they said we had to go to the dining room until the crew members informed us we could disembark. Might have been trying to prevent everybody stampeding for the gangplank, although I don't believe that would have happened. They apparently were going to go by the reporting time on your tour ticket (which was 8 am for most everybody). We hung by the doors and when they said 8 AM could go, we went. No issues with the lines. We were in line maybe 15 minutes. I did hear that there were some line issues for immigration later (and for returning in the evening, and again when the crew members began to disembark to go out for the evening).

I can't think Russian immigration would have anything to do with what the cruise line chose to do aboard the ship...but if they were doing things like telling you which lines to stand in at immigration that might be different.

Hi

I have just received my brochure from P and O today containing the last push drive for selling excursions and our luggage labels.

At the bottom of page 19 of the book there is a little "sticky reminder" that says....."St Petersburg important information"

QUOTE :-

Russian visas are not necessary when joining an organised shore excursion or booking private arrangements through the Shore Excursion Office on board.

It is a requirement that all guests stay in their excursion group to ensure they comply with visa regulations.

Should you wish to visit St Petersburg independently, a visa MUST be obtained prior to arrival.

FINISH QUOTE

Now, what they should add and what we all now know is......BUT if you book a tour through a reputable local tour operator, your tour ticket will act as your visitors visa as long as you are on your tour.

Naughty eh?? :rolleyes:

That's called being economical with the truth.

That's called being economical with the truth.

I agree. This statement is almost a scam.

You know, like the pop-ups we get on the laptops......your pc is in danger.....you have to buy this special pass to make sure you continue to function!!

But we all have the "fear factor" and that is taken advantage of.

Ker-ching!!

jasperado

The cruise companies play upon people's fear and ignorance. I'm lucky to be very well travelled and more or less know where to look for information. Not for one moment am I scared we may miss the boat. We have never even been close, even after a few rum punches in the Caribbean! Any reputable tour operator will ensure you are back in time.

I don't like excursions on a large coach, but neither do I think the cost of private tours normally to be justified, so we try to seek the happy medium. We often end up in small group tours in mini buses.

It also depends what a port of call has to offer. In some we have done HOHO buses and in others just taken a taxi.

In SPB we booked the 2 day Comfort Tour with Alla. We were very lucky as there was only one other couple booked on the trip from our ship, so just four of us. That was as good as having a private tour.

We have only done a couple of ship excursions. Mainly due to time constraints or not being able to find an alternative.

The. Mark up on ship excursions are astronomical and they make me feel as if I have been robbed.

Over our forty+ years of extensive cruising (and literally hundreds of port calls) we cannot recall a single instance of a port trying to solve cruiser problems... And if you think any port will interfere in internal ship policy (vis-a-vis passengers) I have a bridge to sell you that is located in the middle of the Sahara Desert :).

Sounds appealing. I'll keep your bridge offer mind. But seriously, I can think of one specific issue which might cause port authorities to intervene. I can't believe the Port authorities will take kindly to reading documents from the cruise ships that claim that Russian law requires ship's excursion customers disembark first. Over-reach like that might produce some action where the vague "trying to solve cruiser problems" would not.

Hi

We have been told by some to only do ship's tours for St Petersburg' date=' mentioning visa problems, then others have said it's OK to book independent companies. We have always gone for local companies and are now struggling to decide.

Please can I ask for help here.

 

Thank you experts[/quote']

 

There are approved tour guides for which a visa is not required. We highly recommend TJ Travel, which provided the highlight tour of our Baltic cruise. The guide and driver were fantastic. The proprietor came highly recommended by both family and friends and they were right on target about this outfit.

In May I sailed on the Regal Princess and used SPB tours in St Petersberg. I emailed them my passport info and they took care of everything. On arrival going thru customs they checked passport info and my tour tickets and it was no problem. Had a great 2 day tour with SPB at way less cost than through Princess in a small group of about 12.

What was funny is I was one of the first ones off the ship and in front of me at customs was one of the Regal Princess shore excursion workers. For some reason her paperwork was not in order and they would not let her out. When I left she was waiting for her supervisor to get it figured out so she could go ashore and do her job lol.

It's been almost 8 years since we were in St. Pete but I still recall my moment of panic when the cruise director on Celebrity stated the night before arrival that anyone without a visa, and not on the ship's tour, couldn't get off the ship. Totally false! As many others have stated, you do not need an independent visa when going with approved tour-groups. (We used Alla and were very pleased). The day the ship arrived, an announcement was made that everyone taking a private tour had to congregate first to wait in a lounge that was on the opposite end of the ship from the disembarkation level. With trepidation, we totally ignored the announcement and walked off the ship by ourselves. Russian immigration officers never batted an eye and our Alla tour guide was waiting for us once we got through. It is sad to hear the cruise ships are still intimidating passengers not using the ship's tour in St. Pete.