Disney Fantasy loses an anchor

well to get technical

they (we) almost always know EXACTLY where it is ....

not the sort of thing where you wake up in the morning a say "gosh .... I wonder when the anchor and chain fell off?"

so not lost :p

Yeah, you can't walk down to your local boat supply and buy one. :D

Yep. Last time I shopped for one at West Marine, they had just sold their last 7.5 ton anchor to some guy with an 18' center console.....:D

Anybody heard whether it's been recovered and reinstalled yet ?

Guess I just didn't realize they were something that gets "lost"

As the Capt. says, it ain't lost, because if they don't report it to the local authorities to get it noted on the charts, there can be large fines for the next poor cruise ship that comes along and gets their anchor tangled with yours. They don't get "lost" often, and you really try not to "lose" one, but they are one of those things that "when you need one, you really, really, need one", so having a spare is good insurance.

Yeah, you can't walk down to your local boat supply and buy one. :D

 

And no one wants to invest in 15,000 lbs. of cast steel and keep it in "inventory" just in case some ship needs it. You get these when the ship is built and you're buying the other two anchors.

Hi Chief, Capt_BJ and Skipper!

Firstly a quick thanks for all of your input into this thread! I'm sure I'm not the only one who has enjoyed all of your knowledge and insight!

A quick question for all of you!

The it is stated that the Magic class have anchors weighing 28,200 lbs.

How do they work out the weight of the anchor to ship size ratio?

And what would the weight of the Dream class anchors be then?

I also heard on the grapevine that a link in the chain split and that is why they lost/dropped the anchor. The remaining chain on the ship did indeed recoil back into the forward morning deck and fortunately no one was hurt by it.

ex techie

I've found it amazing what the precise application of a sledge hammer will do!

 

Standard procedure and NAVY approved

 

even if I was CG

 

give it a good WHACK or 10 b4 you futz with the brake .... if the brake is OFF ... it is OFF ... looking for more OFF is bad . . .

LMAO!

ex techie

and as you know the anchor works best when used frequently. I've seen the chain and anchor so rusted that it would never drop .... would not surprise me if this was a factor in the NAVY video posted.

I wonder what they do for the Dream since she essentially just goes to Nassau, CC and back?

They can't drop the anchor at Nassau harbour or while docked at CC, or PC?

Anyone have any ideas?

ex techie

Hi Chief, Capt_BJ and Skipper!

 

Firstly a quick thanks for all of your input into this thread! I'm sure I'm not the only one who has enjoyed all of your knowledge and insight!

 

A quick question for all of you!

 

The it is stated that the Magic class have anchors weighing 28,200 lbs.

 

How do they work out the weight of the anchor to ship size ratio?

And what would the weight of the Dream class anchors be then?

 

I also heard on the grapevine that a link in the chain split and that is why they lost/dropped the anchor. The remaining chain on the ship did indeed recoil back into the forward morning deck and fortunately no one was hurt by it.

 

ex techie

While weight is a factor, probably the most important feature when sizing an anchor is the area of the flukes, since this is what gives the holding power. They calculate the pull on the anchor chain caused by the ship's weight, and then determine what kind of loading that force has on the fluke area, and then using soil dynamics they will determine if the flukes will hold the weight in the worst possible sea bed composition.

Interesting that they broke a chain. Could be Chinese chain, which has a very bad reputation for breakage in the industry. The anchor chains are "ranged" (laid out neatly) on the drydock floor every docking, cleaned, and inspected by class for deformation (stretching) or corrosion, usually painted, and frequently "end for ended" meaning they swap ends of the chain between the anchor and the bitter end point, so that the section that had been in the water is now in the chain locker, so it's not as subject to corrosion.

I wonder what they do for the Dream since she essentially just goes to Nassau, CC and back?

They can't drop the anchor at Nassau harbour or while docked at CC, or PC?

Anyone have any ideas?

 

ex techie

One advantage that cruise ships have is that the windlass is normally inside the forward mooring deck, so the brake drum surface is not exposed to the elements like on a cargo ship, so the drums don't rust up as much, and they can also more easily lift the brake bands off to clean the drums, since there is a deck overhead to provide a lifting point.

While weight is a factor, probably the most important feature when sizing an anchor is the area of the flukes, since this is what gives the holding power. They calculate the pull on the anchor chain caused by the ship's weight, and then determine what kind of loading that force has on the fluke area, and then using soil dynamics they will determine if the flukes will hold the weight in the worst possible sea bed composition.

 

Interesting that they broke a chain. Could be Chinese chain, which has a very bad reputation for breakage in the industry. The anchor chains are "ranged" (laid out neatly) on the drydock floor every docking, cleaned, and inspected by class for deformation (stretching) or corrosion, usually painted, and frequently "end for ended" meaning they swap ends of the chain between the anchor and the bitter end point, so that the section that had been in the water is now in the chain locker, so it's not as subject to corrosion.

Thank you Chief!

Yeah they did that during the Magic dry dock I was part of.

Amazing to see that amount of such huge chain, and be able to stand next to one of the anchors, and see the props close up after a polish!

ex techie

One advantage that cruise ships have is that the windlass is normally inside the forward mooring deck, so the brake drum surface is not exposed to the elements like on a cargo ship, so the drums don't rust up as much, and they can also more easily lift the brake bands off to clean the drums, since there is a deck overhead to provide a lifting point.

Good info!

But I was wondering if they had even ever deployed them since her sea trials?

And if so where would they do it?

Would they stop in open ocean on a slow sea day and do it just to keep all of the components of the windlass moving and from ceasing up?

FYI, the Dream has only really done Port Canaveral, Nassau and Castaway Cay with the very very rare deviation from that route.

ex techie

Good info!

But I was wondering if they had even ever deployed them since her sea trials?

And if so where would they do it?

Would they stop in open ocean on a slow sea day and do it just to keep all of the components of the windlass moving and from ceasing up?

FYI, the Dream has only really done Port Canaveral, Nassau and Castaway Cay with the very very rare deviation from that route.

 

ex techie

With permission from the harbor master, it is fairly common to exercise an anchor at the dock. They can lower the anchor all the way using the hydraulic/electric motor, rather than dropping it, and let it pile up on the harbor bottom in a "dog turd" (sorry, maritime lingo). They will do this to inspect the chain and to renew the "shot" markings (painted links, and steel banding put on the center stud to tell how many shots are out) (a shot is 90'). You just have to watch the chain carefully when bringing it back onboard not to allow it to twist.

No, you don't want to lower the anchor at sea. With it hanging straight down, all the weight is on the windlass, and most likely it won't have the power to raise it again. Plus, if it "runs" it is lost for good.

With permission from the harbor master, it is fairly common to exercise an anchor at the dock. They can lower the anchor all the way using the hydraulic/electric motor, rather than dropping it, and let it pile up on the harbor bottom in a "dog turd" (sorry, maritime lingo). They will do this to inspect the chain and to renew the "shot" markings (painted links, and steel banding put on the center stud to tell how many shots are out) (a shot is 90'). You just have to watch the chain carefully when bringing it back onboard not to allow it to twist.

 

No, you don't want to lower the anchor at sea. With it hanging straight down, all the weight is on the windlass, and most likely it won't have the power to raise it again. Plus, if it "runs" it is lost for good.

Again, great info!

Exercise an anchor. What a great descriptive and accurate way to describe it!

Can't say I ever knew of this happening on the Magic, but then again we would call every 2 weeks at Grand Cayman so I guess they would alternate the Port and Starboard anchors to exercise them there.

Thank you again for taking time out of your day whilst at sea and working away from home when you could be resting to answer all of these questions CC members fire at you on a daily basis!

You have become quite the celebrity go-to guy around here for current ship knowledge!

I really appreciate it, and those that are snarky, wasn't there someone with the name Jazy something, obviously misunderstood, or weren't able to comprehend or interpret what was being told to them.

Great job Chief!

ex techie

No problem, helps to pass the time. We only got internet onboard about 6 months ago, and it is such a low budget affair, that on our current heading, we have been having spotty service for days. Many times I'll compose a response and when I try to post it, signal has dropped. So, I've learned to save a copy to notepad before posting, and then later that day, or a couple days later, when signal is back up I don't have to retype. Makes me chuckle a bit with all the posts about internet speeds.

I'm looking at an old reference but I suspect the basics still apply .... "American Merchant Seaman's Manual", 1942. Was my father's from his time on Liberty Ships and T-2 tankers during WWII .....

"The safety of a ship often depends on the ability of its anchors to hold. With this important point in mind the American Bureau of Shipping has laid down a rigid set of regulations governing the manufacturing and testing of anchors.

Every anchor must pass a severe test both as to materials and construction and must meet the requirements of the A.B.S. ....."

"All anchors are to be tested under under the inspection of a surveyor to this bureau ..."

and then there is a discussion of the weights for different anchor designs vs size of ship & length of the chain (then called the anchor cable)

Just one of the millions of international standards today and the reason inspectors of the various insurance underwriters and USCG are routine presence in shipyards internationally.

One should note that in most cases the anchor is not what is holding the vessel in place, rather it is the weight of the chain which is streamed to the bottom. Digging in of the flukes only comes into play when the anchor begins to drag which ideally, you do not want to happen. The length of chain run out is called the scope.

"The scope of the chain to be laid out when anchoring varies, depending on the size of the ship, the weather and tide conditions, and the quality of the holding ground. Although no fixed rule can be given, a length of chain equal to five times the depth of the water will usually be sufficient."

A vessel typically turns into current and wind and comes to a stop and drops the anchor on the bottom, then backs away slowly "veering" chain to lay on the bottom until the desire scope is reached. At anchor the position is monitored and if it is determined the anchor is dragging, additional chain is veered.

Note that putting the anchor on the bottom with a less or no scope and hence preventing the flukes from digging in is a ship handling tool called dragging the anchor. Before the days of bow thrusters is was a "poor man's tug" able to offer control of the bow in currents or crosswinds while approaching a pier.

WRT running out the chain in deep water ... I recall reading a NAVY mishap report of the ship that did just this, intentionally. Seems they thought it would be a good way to inspect the chain so under control they walked the chain out ALL THE WAY in deep water. Amazing that everything held together given the weights! Now came the lesson. They engaged the "winch" and discovered there was not enough power to lift the weight ...... oops. SO, they sailed quite a distance to shallower water and when the anchor touched bottom they were able to continue dragging the anchor and chain up the slope (that scope business again) and bring up the chain as the weight was relieved . . .

shame on me and I should not type technical stuff b4 breakfast

is a ship handling tool called dragging the anchor. Before the days of bow thrusters is was a "poor man's tug"

the proper term is DREDGING

http://www.marineinsight.com/marine-navigation/dredging-anchors/

shame on me and I should not type technical stuff b4 breakfast

 

is a ship handling tool called dragging the anchor. Before the days of bow thrusters is was a "poor man's tug"

the proper term is DREDGING

 

http://www.marineinsight.com/marine-navigation/dredging-anchors/

No worries Capt!

As a seafarer, by "breakfast", I'm guessing you mean enough caffeine! ;) :) lol!

So funny that even the Navy could make a mistake like that and release all of her chain and then have to sail to shallow water to get it back aboard!

We all are human after all!

Thanks for the great article, and it had never occurred to me that a ship could use her anchors for manoeuvring, just for positioning and if the brown stuff really hits the fan, with enough time, then some drag to slow her down before kissing the dock! lol!

Questions though,

Who determines how many shots of chain to let out when anchoring?

Is it the First Officer who recommends to the Capt, and the Capt agrees or amends it?

Are the amount of shots determined by wind speed as well as what the anchor is landing on? Rocky vs. sandy sea bottom?

Thanks again!

ex techie

No problem, helps to pass the time. We only got internet onboard about 6 months ago, and it is such a low budget affair, that on our current heading, we have been having spotty service for days. Many times I'll compose a response and when I try to post it, signal has dropped. So, I've learned to save a copy to notepad before posting, and then later that day, or a couple days later, when signal is back up I don't have to retype. Makes me chuckle a bit with all the posts about internet speeds.

Haha! I can imagine before you got internet for personal use aboard, as slow as it is, the same old movies were watched time and time again!

But still thank you for spending the time and effort!

ex techie

Questions though,

Who determines how many shots of chain to let out when anchoring?

Is it the First Officer who recommends to the Capt, and the Capt agrees or amends it?

Are the amount of shots determined by wind speed as well as what the anchor is landing on? Rocky vs. sandy sea bottom?

the Captain/Master always retains the responsibility. They might delegate the authority for a decision but they retain the responsibility (there a a couple of limited exceptions but let's not go there ...)

SO ... the Captain decides ... but usually the BOS'N says

Capt'n, I recommend 2 shots on deck .....

and Captain usually says "very well"

Are the amount of shots determined by wind speed as well as what the anchor is landing on? Rocky vs. sandy sea bottom?

absolutely ... on a typical day at Grand Cayman you drop the anchor to a sand bottom and expect little wind or current so you do not need to lay much chain .... on a BLUSTERY DAY however . . .

as I mentioned the chain is actually the BIG factor. SO ... if you drop chain over rock vs sand one might expect the chain to hold better ......

on the other hand ..... is weather expected?

and is that 'rock' protected coral!!!!!

THESE ARE THE THINGS the guy in the Captain's Chair is expected to think about ....

while also shaking hands with the frequent fliers . . on a cruise ship

Thank you for your reply Capt_BJ!

Very informative!

ex techie

Found this photo:

You can see how much chain is attached to each anchor. During each dry docking, they run out all the chain and surveyors inspect each link for condition, IE cracks etc. If any links are not up to snuff, they are replaced.

Note the very small workers in the photos,

AKK

Found this photo:

 

 

 

You can see how much chain is attached to each anchor. During each dry docking' date=' they run out all the chain and surveyors inspect each link for condition, IE cracks etc. If any links are not up to snuff, they are replaced.

 

Note the very small workers in the photos,

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Great information and picture Skipper!

I'm guessing replcing a link is not an easy job! :eek:

 

ex techie

Great information and picture Skipper!

I'm guessing replcing a link is not an easy job! :eek:

 

ex techie

Pretty easy when you fire up the "gas axe" (cutting torch). Joining links come in pieces. To keep the number of joining links to a minimum, they will usually renew a whole shot.

The missing anchor is back. I don't know when it was pit back but we are on this week and I asked an officer if it was a new one or if retrieved. He said it was retrieved.

The missing anchor is back. I don't know when it was pit back but we are on this week and I asked an officer if it was a new one or if retrieved. He said it was retrieved.

That is about what we expected.;)

AKK