New Ship 2020

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I have sailed on Azura, Ventura and Britannia and do not recognise most of the so called appalling problems embarking, dis-embarking, with the lifts or other moans.

And to those people who seem to come on this board with the sole intention of advertising Celebrity, go and read the endless complaints on their boards of a similer nature.

Here are the deck plans for the Koningsdam :

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/deckplans/ko.pdf

From looking at those deck plans, the "Pinnacle" class (which she's the first of) is yet another development of the very successful Holland America "Vista" class.

Personally I'd like to see a Pinnacle class ship in P&O's fleet...I'd certainly book a cruise or three on her.

As for anything bigger than Azura or Ventura.... no thank you.

VP

I have sailed on Azura, Ventura and Britannia and do not recognise most of the so called appalling problems embarking, dis-embarking, with the lifts or other moans.

And to those people who seem to come on this board with the sole intention of advertising Celebrity, go and read the endless complaints on their boards of a similer nature.

I believe you may have posted this on the wrong thread Brillo, but as someone who has actually cruised on Celebrity I do feel that I am well able to make justifiable comparisons on all the items you quote. Your lack of cruises on other lines does somewhat limit your ability to make such a comparison.

However that is not to say that P&O do not offer a very enjoyable holiday, just that it could be so much better.

I believe you may have posted this on the wrong thread Brillo, but as someone who has actually cruised on Celebrity I do feel that I am well able to make justifiable comparisons on all the items you quote. Your lack of cruises on other lines does somewhat limit your ability to make such a comparison.

 

However that is not to say that P&O do not offer a very enjoyable holiday, just that it could be so much better.

I think that the main point is that if you can read you can see that there are complaints about Celebrity on the Celebrity part of CC. You do not need to cruise with them to make comment on what has been posted.

To say someone cannot comment on this is just daft.

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I think that the main point is that if you can read you can see that there are complaints about Celebrity on the Celebrity part of CC. You do not need to cruise with them to make comment on what has been posted.

 

To say someone cannot comment on this is just daft.

 

 

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I did not say, nor would I, that the poster could not make a comment, just that my personal experiences were more valid than their hearsay ones.

I did not say, nor would I, that the poster could not make a comment, just that my personal experiences were more valid than their hearsay ones.

So the comments on the Celebrity site are not valid?

BTW you will notice I still have not made any negative remarks about any other cruise line. But other people have the right to quote statements made on CC about any other line.

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So the comments on the Celebrity site are not valid?

 

BTW you will notice I still have not made any negative remarks about any other cruise line. But other people have the right to quote statements made on CC about any other line.

 

 

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Dai, stop being so pedantic, my actual words were MORE valid, which I would expect most people to accept as reasonable when comparing hearsay to an actual experience.

Dai, stop being so pedantic, my actual words were MORE valid, which I would expect most people to accept as reasonable when comparing hearsay to an actual experience.

I am making the point as I have been told so many times that I am not allowed to post about other lines. That will not happen again.

If I have to be pedantic about it so it be.

I will not be bullied and I am not saying you would do that. I will also defend anyone else who I think is being bullied.

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The rumour on Arcadia at present is that the new ship is destined for the Far East to attract the Chinese gambling market.

Perhaps another tall story set off by officers to see how far it travels.

Sue

The problems I see are that they are not filling the big ships they already have. Our cruise on Oriana in 2 weeks is sold out, except for half a dozen inside cabins. Azura tomorrow still has all grades available, so does Ventura in a week or so. Britannia the same.

It's quite interesting.

The problems I see are that they are not filling the big ships they already have. Our cruise on Oriana in 2 weeks is sold out, except for half a dozen inside cabins. Azura tomorrow still has all grades available, so does Ventura in a week or so. Britannia the same.

 

It's quite interesting.

Not quite true Jean, Britannia has 5 grades sold out and on all ships the saver fare is very close to the select fare. That is a sure sign of a nearly full ship. BTW no ship sails full. They have to have some spare capacity. They are filling their ships and they can see the increase in passengers coming along. This time 3/4 years ago we would see many posts about prices falling. There are very few now.

I expect to see some deals before Christmas as this is always a slack time.

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The price of ours with 2 weeks to go is still £300 pp more than we paid. 14 nights on Ventura in 2 weeks time is only £1099.

The price of ours with 2 weeks to go is still £300 pp more than we paid. 14 nights on Ventura in 2 weeks time is only £1099.

Which is only £100 less than the select fare which comes with car parking worth more than that. So prices have not gone down.

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Just been looking at what the space ratio will be on the new ship, and on lower berths it will be 34.6 which is slightly better than Britannia at 33.2 and we never felt overcrowded on her, except in the lifts.;)

However this is still way below the Oasis class at 41.7, and all of the other RCI classes.

Just been looking at what the space ratio will be on the new ship, and on lower berths it will be 34.6 which is slightly better than Britannia at 33.2 and we never felt overcrowded on her, except in the lifts.;)

However this is still way below the Oasis class at 41.7, and all of the other RCI classes.

That's not the figures Pete posted on another thread. There he had the RCI ships much the same as all other brands ie. Between 33 and 36.

On his figures the best ship was Arcadia with a score in the mid forties.

Could these high figures have something to do with the large central promenades which would be counted for tonnage but not give any extra space.

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That's not the figures Pete posted on another thread. There he had the RCI ships much the same as all other brands ie. Between 33 and 36.

 

On his figures the best ship was Arcadia with a score in the mid forties.

 

Could these high figures have something to do with the large central promenades which would be counted for tonnage but not give any extra space.

 

 

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Not sure what Pete posted but from the Choosing Cruising website all RCI ships exceed 40 except the vision class (2 of which are going to Thomson/TUI) which are 39.3.

Yes the bigger ones will include the covered Royal promenade areas, but these are well specified passenger spaces with lots of seating in the bars, restaurants and cafes as well as shops, so it should be included just as the atrium on P&O ships will be included.

Have Carnival Gone To Far?

It was this post under the above Thread

"

Although I like the big ships, this number of passengers on such a 'small' ship is a concern to me.

Actually only nearer 20% smaller than the Oasis class ships, but that aside as above it's still a worry.

However, there are alternative measures to try and see if the vessel will be cramped, which is the passenger to space ratio. The larger the number, the more space per passenger. It can be slightly distorted by the fact of smaller cabins could mean more public space.

Current examples of Passengers-to-space ratio:-

P&O Ships

Arcadia 44

Oriana 37

Britannia 33

Azura 31

Ventura 31

Using the general formula for calculating the ratio, a ship of 180,000 GT with 5,200 passengers, it works out at 34, which is comparable with Britannia and some of the other cruise lines, so perhaps I shouldn't be too concerned.

Princess

Royal Princess 33

Emerald Princess 31

RCI

Oasis 36

Freedom 34

Quantum 35

Celebrity

Reflection 34

Constellation 35

NCL

Breakaway 30

Epic 31

Escape 32

Carnival

Vista 28

Magic 29

Valor 31

"

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=51037236

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This seems to be a very subjective topic as I have found a list on another site which puts the big RCI ships at 39 and Royal and Regal Princess at the same 39. Most others are around 33 to 37. Arcadia comes out well at 39.6 but Adonia poorly at less than 30 at 26.8.

QM2 comes out very well at around 50.

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Dai, not sure where Pete got his RCI data from but the Choosing Cruising site, using Pete's methodology clearly shows Oasis at 41.7, whilst using the same method his 33 for Britannia is correct. If you want to make comparisons I suggest you do your own calculations taking the published gross ships weights and dividing by the lower berth passengers. From these you will note that Carnivals mass market brands fare quite poorly.

Dai, not sure where Pete got his RCI data from but the Choosing Cruising site, using Pete's methodology clearly shows Oasis at 41.7, whilst using the same method his 33 for Britannia is correct. If you want to make comparisons I suggest you do your own calculations taking the published gross ships weights and dividing by the lower berth passengers. From these you will note that Carnivals mass market brands fare quite poorly.

I cannot mention the site I have for the details I have as it is a TA. But it is clear people are using different criteria.

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I cannot mention the site I have for the details I have as it is a TA. But it is clear people are using different criteria.

 

 

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Just found it Dai and a lot of the ratio scores do not agree with the cruise lines published tonnage and passenger numbers, mind you neither does the site I quoted.

The figures they have for Britannia do not agree with P&O's data, so the correct passenger space ratio should be 38.6, which is quite a bit better than the 34.6 for the new ship, however my RCI figures are more accurate than Pete's.

Just found a site with the ratios too. Not sure why sites figures and the cruise lines figures differ when the actual calculation looks so straightforward.

I'm not sure the method of calculating it is that useful as it doesn't include non enclosed spaces. Surely the amount of open deck space should be a factor plus as has been said the Oasis class ships have huge open air 'neighbourhoods' that won't be included in the calculation and yet (at least in good weather) become big public spaces.

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We should not get too hung up on the maths. Ratios cannot tell the whole story of how a ship feels and operates.

We also never know how many people will be on our cruise. It would be very rare to sell all berths, for example.

It is a fact that luxury ships offer more space and higher fares than mass-market ships. That's what you pay for.

My concerns is P&O fares are rarely cheap, but the new ship will be pretty dense, if they regularly sell the many of their third and fourth berths.

Well I consider my upcoming cruise to be cheap. We have had many deals with P&O that I consider cheap and we usually book on launch.