Regent or Viking Ocean?

Yes, all these lines are doing that, positioning themselves as luxury. And probably they are all close. It's my belief that one of the biggest distinguishing factors is passenger to space ratio (that being said, I enjoy Azamara, which ranks fairly low, as you can see). Here are some numbers from another site (hope this is okay with cruisecritic), in order of ratio (didn't bother with the mass market but included Celebrity Equinox for comparison.) Having been on both Mariner and Voyager, I can tell you that Mariner definitely has better public spaces, but that's at the expense of cabin size, of course. Nice to see that the Paul Gauguin, my favourite ship, fares well beside Voyager:

 

Seven Seas Explorer 1 : 74.672

Silver Shadow 1 : 72.463

Silver Whisper 1 : 72.464

Seabourn Odyssey 1 : 71.115

Seabourn Encore 1 : 71.116

Silver Muse 1 : 68.47

Seven Seas Mariner 1 : 67.718

Silver Spirit 1 : 66.689

Crystal Serenity 1 : 63.1810

Seven Seas Voyager 1 : 59.6711

Seven Seas Navigator 1 : 58.2712

Paul Gauguin 1 : 58.1813

Silver Wind 1 : 5814

Silver Cloud 1 : 57.38

Queen Mary 2 1 : 56.6916

Crystal Esprit 1 : 5517

Crystal Symphony 1 : 53.1718

Marina 1 : 52.4519

Riviera 1 : 52.4520

Disney Dream 1 : 51.8821

Disney Fantasy 1 : 51.8822

Viking Sky 1 : 51.423

Viking Star 1 : 51.424

Viking Sea 1 : 51.435

Azamara Journey 1 : 44.85

Insignia 1 : 44.240

Nautica 1 : 44.241

Regatta 1 : 44.247

Sirena 1 : 43.8855

Celebrity Equinox 1 : 42.8167

Azamara Quest 1 : 42.35

This is quite interesting, but for me the criteria isn't particularly valid. So long as I have a veranda suite in line with industry norms, that doesn't seem minuscule, I don't really care about cabin square footage. Character and design mean more to me.

I'm really enjoying the modern relaxed vibe of the Viking Star.

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This is quite interesting, but for me the criteria isn't particularly valid. So long as I have a veranda suite in line with industry norms, that doesn't seem minuscule, I don't really care about cabin square footage. Character and design mean more to me.

 

I'm really enjoying the modern relaxed vibe of the Viking Star.

 

 

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It's not the square footage of the cabins that's relevant here, but the overall passenger to space ratio, which equates to the spacious feel of public spaces, or lack thereof. Viking Star sounds very nice, I'm thinking I'd like it too.

That's the rub: Some people love a large, comfortable cabin with a nice veranda and don't care much for public spaces...whereas others would be happy with a 150 sq ft interior cabin as long as there's a lot of public space. Some people want light, airy designs, other prefer dark wood and leather. Some want modern, some want traditional. Some want a butler, some don't.

Bottom line is that there is no one perfect cruise ship. There might be a perfect one for you, or a perfect one for me, but not a perfect one.

Let's just be thankful we have the choices we have.

Wendy, thank you for taking the time to post all of that - very interesting stuff.

We are ones that want space in our suite - the more the better. We think that the pubic spaces on Explorer, Voyager and Mariner is just fine (not enough public spaces on the Navigator IMO).

Decor doesn't bother me much as long as everything is functional. For instance, the chairs that Regent ships had for a while were too low and the bar chairs were too high (made me feel like I was a child in a high chair). The colors on Viking reminds me a bit of the color palette that Regent used to have.

My required criteria is excellent service and great food. I know that every dish that is prepared onboard will not be to my liking since food is subjective but most of the food needs to be on point. The two times that we strayed from Regent on Oceania, we found the public spaces excellent, the suite great, the service top notch but the food failed (except in the specialty restaurants). The way alcohol was handled was also a big turn-off.

IMO, price is a determining factor as well. The prices on Regent are so high that many people are unable to afford it. While we can afford a couple of lower to middle priced cruises, Regent has priced themselves out of our range. So, the alternative would be cruising more often on a luxury-lite ship or less on Regent. At least for now, we'll keep cruising on Regent. You never know when you can find an extraordinary deal like we found on our August 30th sailing. We will continue to look for itineraries that are not selling well rather than changing to a less inclusive cruise line.

That's the rub: Some people love a large, comfortable cabin with a nice veranda and don't care much for public spaces...whereas others would be happy with a 150 sq ft interior cabin as long as there's a lot of public space. Some people want light, airy designs, other prefer dark wood and leather. Some want modern, some want traditional. Some want a butler, some don't.

 

Bottom line is that there is no one perfect cruise ship. There might be a perfect one for you, or a perfect one for me, but not a perfect one.

 

Let's just be thankful we have the choices we have.

Hallelujah to that!

...

Bottom line is that there is no one perfect cruise ship. There might be a perfect one for you, or a perfect one for me, but not a perfect one...

Absolutely correct.

Wendy's numbers are a good place to start, but different ships divvy up the space in different way. Some use a higher fraction for the cabins, some a higher fraction for public spaces. And some ships use their space better than others.

I hesitate to single out one ship as an example, but the Paul Gauguin has 200 sq. ft. cabins on deck 4, but they are so well designed that they are much better than similarly sized cabins on other ships. Wendy calls them the "tiny perfect cabins."

However, as part of the process of choosing a ship, one of the metrics that one should also consider is the number of passengers per staff. This relates to the quality of the service you will get. Numbers range from 1:1 or better to 1:0.3 or less.

But, as with the passenger/size ratio, not all staff are the same. Two ships with identical passenger/staff ratios can have fairly large differences in the quality of the service delivered to the passengers.

The good news is that all the lines are in cut-throat competition with each other, so you are unlikely to have a dreadful experience on any of them: they want you to (1) come back, and (2) tell your friends how great it was. It is just that for every individual some offerings will be better than others.

I am terrifically appreciating this thread. Thanks especially to Barbarian Paul for the on board posting. But it's also helpful reading all the input.

Wendy, thank you for taking the time to post all of that - very interesting stuff.

 

We are ones that want space in our suite - the more the better. We think that the pubic spaces on Explorer, Voyager and Mariner is just fine (not enough public spaces on the Navigator IMO).

 

Decor doesn't bother me much as long as everything is functional. For instance, the chairs that Regent ships had for a while were too low and the bar chairs were too high (made me feel like I was a child in a high chair). The colors on Viking reminds me a bit of the color palette that Regent used to have.

 

My required criteria is excellent service and great food. I know that every dish that is prepared onboard will not be to my liking since food is subjective but most of the food needs to be on point. The two times that we strayed from Regent on Oceania, we found the public spaces excellent, the suite great, the service top notch but the food failed (except in the specialty restaurants). The way alcohol was handled was also a big turn-off.

 

IMO, price is a determining factor as well. The prices on Regent are so high that many people are unable to afford it. While we can afford a couple of lower to middle priced cruises, Regent has priced themselves out of our range. So, the alternative would be cruising more often on a luxury-lite ship or less on Regent. At least for now, we'll keep cruising on Regent. You never know when you can find an extraordinary deal like we found on our August 30th sailing. We will continue to look for itineraries that are not selling well rather than changing to a less inclusive cruise line.

Couldn't agree more with UUNetBill about different ships appealing to different tastes, and that we're never going to all agree on the best line. And there are certainly worse problems to have than deciding which ship to sail on, when a good many of them, despite their strengths and weakness, are generally excellent.

I think your comments about Regent pricing are dead-on. When I see an interesting itinerary on one of the fancy Regent brochures we all get, my enthusiasm inevitably wanes when my gaze wonders down to the pricing column. In my opinion, their product is superlative, but since I don't care about cabin size, I'd rather cruise more frequently on more reasonably priced ships, where the quality of the dining is getting pretty close or even equal to Regent levels. And in terms of Regent's other features, I thought their entertainment was average and their lectures kinda boring, so aside from food and cabin size (at least on the Explorer) you're money isn't buying much else.

Which gets us back to the topic of this thread, and Viking. So, tonight we're staying in port in St. Petersburg. We finished the first of a two day grand excursion (amazing!!), and got back to the Viking Star late in the afternoon. Tonight we had dinner in their second specialty restaurant called The Chef's Table, whose fixed menu changes every three days. It's a clever way to turn one specialty restaurant into four or five over a two week cruise. Anyway, the meal was delicious and fun and creative and unlike any other dining experience I've had on a cruise ship. I just tried to post the menu but I keep getting an error message, alas.

Anyway, I really appreciated the sense of innovation, which seems to inform a lot of Viking's approach to cruising. (And then, fyi, we had a blast watching the second Sean Connery James Bond movie From Russia With Love by the pool, on a screen hidden from view during the day via a decorative screen, listening through high fidelity cordless headphones.)

We're really enjoying ourselves, at a cost point considerably below that offered by Regent. And in many ways we feel like the experience is superior.

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BP (and others): I'm trying hard to get a handle on the "cost point" consideration.

Sometimes the posts seem to indicate that once one factors everything in (excursions, wine in suite, business air, gratuities, not sure what I'm forgetting), Regent isn't really more expensive than Viking. Other posts seem to indicate that, oh, yes, Regent is definitely more expensive. I'm very much appreciating all the details, and I look forward to being able, somehow, to figure out pricing (I'm not good at such things).

Thanks again for the posts.

After all the price and feature comparisons, isn't the subjective experience the end result? If you love the product, when on the ship, then you've made the right choice. Price is definitely a consideration for us. If it weren't, then I'd cruise Regent and the Paul Gauguin. But Regent is "out" most of the time for us, except for the odd cruises that stand out because they are good value (our SA trip in Mariner last winter is a case in point.) Since we have enjoyed Azamara, and hope to again, I am looking at Viking and thinking, "maybe"! That is if I can hold my nose and ignore some of the odious business practices of the company (this from reading the River board for years.)

...

...

However, as part of the process of choosing a ship, one of the metrics that one should also consider is the number of passengers per staff. This relates to the quality of the service you will get. Numbers range from 1:1 or better to 1:0.3 or less.

 

But, as with the passenger/size ratio, not all staff are the same. Two ships with identical passenger/staff ratios can have fairly large differences in the quality of the service delivered to the passengers.

....

Here is a page that lists pax/staff ratios:

https://www.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-passenger-crew-ratio/

I note that the Paul Gauguin is "up there" with Mariner and Voyager, and Azamara Journey statistically close. In fact all the "top" lines have probably insignificant differents: from one to .72 on Explorer, .65 on the Paul Gauguin, .59 on Viking, .56 on Insignia. All good numbers.

A I am looking at Viking and thinking, "maybe"! That is if I can hold my nose and ignore some of the odious business practices of the company (this from reading the River board for years.)

 

 

 

Well Wendy, you need to peruse the Azamara Board as their Business Practices have driven us away from them after canceling our 2018 TA and offering a 3 day shorter TA 2 weeks earlier with 3 fewer ports at the exact same price plus some OBC that would be impossible to spend. Many other issues there and many of us are not rebooking and som are bidding adieu to Azamara as they refuse to recognize many of their horrible home office business practices or do anything about them. Was a real cheerleader for them after last years Norway Cruise even with their less than stellar home office but, they have outdone themselves this time with a Charter and an absurd number of Cuba cruises from November 2018 continuing back to back for several months.

Hark the Raven, never more!!!

i am really enjoying reading all the posts on the Viking ship even though i don't think i will ever sail on it. We put our toe in the water of river cruising on one of their River boats and i will never sail with them again. Worst overall vacation experience i have ever had but that doesn't stop me from reading with interest all about the ocean ship or looking at the many great pictures.

Thanks again for posting during your vacation.

Well Wendy, you need to peruse the Azamara Board as their Business Practices have driven us away from them after canceling our 2018 TA and offering a 3 day shorter TA 2 weeks earlier with 3 fewer ports at the exact same price plus some OBC that would be impossible to spend. Many other issues there and many of us are not rebooking and som are bidding adieu to Azamara as they refuse to recognize many of their horrible home office business practices or do anything about them. Was a real cheerleader for them after last years Norway Cruise even with their less than stellar home office but, they have outdone themselves this time with a Charter and an absurd number of Cuba cruises from November 2018 continuing back to back for several months.

 

Hark the Raven, never more!!!

Interesting. I know in the past they've had issues caused by various charters, and tee'd off many customers. And they share their practices with Celebrity, of course, so that's something that can't be avoided, so point well taken. But with their miniscule cancellation penalty, I'm not too worried about that right now. But I am disappointed, since you were part of the reason we booked the Norway cruise for next year. Of course, we've been on Journey, so we know the product, and really enjoyed it, so I see no reason to cancel because "something" might happen. I pushed strongly for Hurtigruten, a completely different experience, but husband won out on that decision. Didn't know about Viking's itinerary at the time.

Wendy, would not cancel or change your Norway cruise. The onboard experience is excellent and we enjoyed it very much. Enough that we booked this cancelled TA that fit nicely with a pre River Cruise. We stopped sailing another line because of the home office and found that the Azamara home office wasn't any different and at this point probably worse. Had lots little nagging problems that we eventually worked out but, because we were proactive. This cancellation and their very many errors in handling, informing , offers, etc. run the gamut of everything that can go wrong will go wrong. They finally made one single apology as they put no decision date in the letter sent to our TA and different dates were coming from different places so we had a date until the very next day when a poster talked to the home office and was given a different date. And only the CC people are aware of the issues as the website is mute to this issue and many people and their TA's still haven't been notified.

Don't think your Norway cruise will be cancelled but, if so expect the same so if you can live with that and the horrible customer non-service, while onboard you will forget about Miami and enjoy the heck out of you and David. Rumor has it they are looking for a third ship and that will help but, alienating their current and long term customers for a charter they still haven't acknowledged they are doing and multiple 9 or 10 day cruises they are doing at a very high per diem and veterans are saying the 2019/2020 per diems are ridiculous. Take advantage while you can with their great Norway.

Wendy, would not cancel or change your Norway cruise. ...

Don't think your Norway cruise will be cancelled but, if so expect the same so if you can live with that and the horrible customer non-service, while onboard you will forget about Miami and enjoy the heck out of you and David. Rumor has it they are looking for a third ship and that will help but, alienating their current and long term customers for a charter they still haven't acknowledged they are doing and multiple 9 or 10 day cruises they are doing at a very high per diem and veterans are saying the 2019/2020 per diems are ridiculous. Take advantage while you can with their great Norway.

Thanks Dave. We certainly do intend to "enjoy the heck" out of this cruise. I guess the risk will happen when I book Air, but if I can manage to do that using reward flights, the risk will be slight. And if the whole thing got cancelled, I have always figured in the past that we could concoct a new holiday, using the air, in a pinch.

Here's that fixed menu for the dinner my wife and I had last night at The Chef's Table, one of the two specialty restaurants in the Viking Star, both of which are complimentary.

Today was our second day in St. Petersburg, where the last half of our two day "Grand Tour" excursion through Alla Tours included a trip on the metro (the stations are beautiful and our final stop was actually the deepest station in the world, with an escalator that took about 4 1/2 minutes to get to the surface), a boat ride through the city's canals, and visits to multiple palaces, including Catherine's summer palace and Peter The Great's palace, Peterhof. Exhausting but wonderful.

Four other ships in the harbor this morning. A Costa, an AIDA, the HA Zuiderdam, and the RC Serenade Of The Seas. And docked closer to some of the palaces were an Azamara and an Oceania. A lot of people up and about but the crowds weren't that bad.

Tallinn, Estonia tomorrow!

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I would like to thank the OP for starting this very interesting thread. The photos are great and the conversations are so informative. I know that it sometimes veers of track but then floats on back and everyone seems to be enjoying the ride. Keep it coming as time allows. thanks

While I appreciate whatever Paul posts, I do not find a comparison of a luxury cruise line and a premium plus cruise line of much value (other than it is interesting).

As has been posted, there are many negatives that people have experienced with Viking in general. Due to their reputation, I have suggested to people that ask me not to cruise on anything owned by Viking. OTOH, it does seem that they are trying harder with Viking Ocean than with their river cruises. Does this make up for the bad experiences that passengers of their river cruises have experienced? That is up to the reader to decide.

It seems that some posters on this thread are Regent customers that are looking for a less expensive alternative. I suggest that you look at the Azamara, Oceania and Viking Ocean boards as well as their reviews to get in-depth experiences of people that have cruised these lower priced cruise lines.

I am all over Cruise Critic -- not only on the Regent board. While I certainly respect Paul's opinions, he is only one of thousands of opinions. I personally would not pay for a suite on Viking Ocean that is equivalent to a suite on Regent to "try out" a premium plus cruise line. As many know, we did try Oceania and paid for a humongous (misspelled) suite with the best butler that we've ever had and were able to dine in specialty restaurants every night ....... but it was not the luxury experience that we have on Regent.

So, my advice is to study the Viking Ocean ships -- read every review you can of Viking Ocean and make sure that the monetary savings is worth the change from a luxury cruise line to a premium plus cruise line.

While I appreciate whatever Paul posts, I do not find a comparison of a luxury cruise line and a premium plus cruise line of much value (other than it is interesting).

With all due respect, I have to disagree. I feel the comparison is very valuable, especially as it is being done by someone who has sailed almost exclusively on luxury lines. The world of luxury cruising is getting very competitive and the main luxury lines such as Regent, SB, SS & Crystal need to be on top of their game to retain passengers. Personally I would rather try Viking Ocean than either Azamara or Oceania. I have tried neither but from the research I have done there seems to be a lot of negative comments about both lines. At this point the feedback on Viking Ocean is very positive. I am not interested in comparing Viking River and Ocean - apples and oranges.

With all due respect, I have to disagree. I feel the comparison is very valuable, especially as it is being done by someone who has sailed almost exclusively on luxury lines. The world of luxury cruising is getting very competitive and the main luxury lines such as Regent, SB, SS & Crystal need to be on top of their game to retain passengers. Personally I would rather try Viking Ocean than either Azamara or Oceania. I have tried neither but from the research I have done there seems to be a lot of negative comments about both lines. At this point the feedback on Viking Ocean is very positive. I am not interested in comparing Viking River and Ocean - apples and oranges.

With equal respect, I must disagree with you. The following is a quote from the TS's (thread starters) first post ...... I have highlighted the relevant parts):

"Hello, looking for some opinions (which I know can be subjective). Two similar itineraries being offered by Regent and Viking from Tokyo to Vancouver. My DH have never sailed either line (previously have been on royal, princess, Norwegian, celebrity and azamara). Friends of ours who we would be travelling with are open to either cruiseline. Can anyone who has cruised both give your general observatikns or thoughts. Would be looking at a regular balcony cabin on either. Thanks in advance.

Agree with you that the luxury cruise lines need to be on top of their game. And, I'm not comparing Viking Ocean with Viking River cruises other than to state that they have the same owners. One problem that has been highlighted on this thread is how the home office can cause problems on a cruise (specifically posts regarding Azamara). So, IMO, home office responses cannot be totally discounted.

While I appreciate whatever Paul posts, I do not find a comparison of a luxury cruise line and a premium plus cruise line of much value (other than it is interesting).

 

So, my advice is to study the Viking Ocean ships -- read every review you can of Viking Ocean and make sure that the monetary savings is worth the change from a luxury cruise line to a premium plus cruise line.

Sometimes the price difference between Viking Ocean and Regent is quite small. In booking our 2018 transatlantic on Viking Ocean, we considered an almost identical cruise on the Regent Explorer. An apples-to-apples comparison for a Concierge-level suite showed that Regent's price was higher, but not by much (after deducting for air). Despite the 'good value' offered by Regent, we opted for Viking Ocean. For almost no 'monetary savings,' it turns out.

The difference between premium plus and luxury is becoming blurred and somewhat arbitrary. In the end, it's up to you, if it matters at all, how the cruise lines are positioned.

I have found this thread very helpful and informative. It prompted me to look at some itineraries on Viking that were very exciting. I also like the aesthetics of the Viking Ocean ships. In contrast, I was looking at the 2019-20 Regent offerings and just had to yawn. Unless you cruise just to be on the ship, I think Regent should offer something new...perhaps a new itinerary or a themed cruise - something to mix it up to intrigue both loyalists and new customers.

I too am happy to have found this thread as we will be "newbies" on both cruise lines next year and it will be interesting (to say the least) to see how they compare in our eyes. We have mucked about on quite a number of cruise lines through the years and have always been drawn to interesting itineraries first and foremost. We have found two (one on each cruise line) that sparked our interest and look forward to both. For us the novelty of a new brand adds an additional spark to our cruise adventure (new ships to explore, new menus and new groups of people to mingle with all add a certain something extra to the cruise).

Sometimes it's the small details that can really help differentiate a luxury cruise line. Having sailed on three of them, Crystal, Regent, and now Viking, I thought it might be interesting to list the small things that I've only experienced on Viking. Of course I have to qualify that my memory is fresher because I'm currently sailing on the Viking Star in the Baltic. So here goes!

1. A personalized, printed booklet that lists all flight, hotel, excursion and port information sent prior to the cruise. I'm used to having to put that together myself, so I loved this.

2. A dining representative permanently stationed outside of the buffet (called The World Cafe) to assist in specialty dining reservations. So helpful! All the restaurants on board, like fellow luxury lines Regent and Crystal, are complimentary. But you can only eat in Crystal's once without paying (annoying and cheap), and we found specialty reservations on Regent for more desirable times almost impossible to get, other than the two we were allowed to book prior to embarkation. Not so with Viking.

3. A special audio vox headset to use on every excursion for each passenger in their cabin. Better than having to fiddle with a new one on every excursion.

4. A genuinely engaging and friendly cruise director. Crystal's was friendly but not around so much. Neither was Regent's. Now of course I've only been on Regent once, so I'm not as biased as those who've sailed on them a 100 times, but both my wife and I perceived a much higher level of interest, warmth and friendliness toward past Regent cruisers. Not so much for the new ones. It didn't really bother us so much at the time, but upon reflection it does now. Especially after engaging with the Viking cruise director and his staff, virtually all of whom have made an effort to seek out almost every passenger and initiate a conversation.

5. The bathroom is similar in size to Crystal, smaller than Regent, but we love that heated floor!

6. The basket of crisp, individually wrapped apples positioned just outside of the ship for passengers going off on excursions. And the warm, moist hand towel ready for us upon our return. Of course there's bottled water as well, but that's a available on most luxury lines.

7. The blankets always offered in the main theater, should you wish to feel a little cozier!

8. The poolside movies with blankets, high fidelity Bluetooth headphones, and gourmet popcorn. This is a feature on many mass market lines, but I feel like Viking has really elevated the experience. The ship's huge, LED screen is hidden by artsy metal grillwork during the day, so I didn't even know it was there. The Crystal Serenity is an older ship, but I'm surprised one was never installed in dry dock. The Seven Seas Explorer is brand new, but oddly doesn't have it. That was a mistake. I was surprised by how much fun the experience actually is.

9. A retractable glass cover over the pool. Great for chilly days and movie nights, especially in the Baltic.

10. My wife just brought up the healthy smoothies available in the buffet and the snow room, which has to be experienced to be believed. Of course the buffet offers omelette and waffles cooked to order, but I love the personally mixed salads as well.

Anyway, it's a warm beautiful day in Tallinn, Estonia! Tallinn has one of the largest, best preserved medieval old towns I've ever experienced. You can even walk across the top of the fortified city wall, like the guards in ages past. The whole place is a blast to wander around and explore. We sail for Gdansk Poland tonight.

The Norwegian Getaway is docked next to us. It's sheer enormity is hard to believe. Next to that is another Costa liner, and next to that is a smaller Windstar ship. Frankly, with no balconies and it's sails down, it doesn't look as nice as I thought it would.

Here are some pics from our days in St. Petersburg.

The Cathedral Of The Spilled Blood:

Peter and Paul Cathedral:

The Hermitage!

Canals!

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Thanks for continued posts, BP. Glad that you visited both upper and lower Tallinn-- we love that port. Also much enjoyed Gdansk. Hoping for continued fun experiences for you.