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phoenix_dream

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  1. Very nicely said. It is indeed true that most of us are doing our best here in the US. In point of fact, while I am not defending how well we are or are not doing, we currently rank 9th (depending on date of survey) in deaths per 100.000 of population. But for some reason the US is the country consistently criticized on Cruise Critic, even though several other countries with large amounts of cruisers as well as infected people per their population are not even mentioned (I will not single out any one). One reason our numbers are large is because we are large, and sensationalist news headlines like to focus on things that will grab people's attention. Large numbers do that, especially when quoted without context, such as rates per capita. Unfortunately cases are rising again in many countries, even those who had good numbers before. We are all fighting this together and it would be nice if we could think that way.
  2. I don't think they mean to say that wearing masks and hand washing are not valuable any more. I think what they are saying is that if fewer people are getting sick because of these mitigation effects, then the virus will find a way to mutate to make itself more infectious when it does come in contact with people. Masks and handwashing still help prevent the virus from contacting people in the first place. I also agree with TeeRick (who knows WAY more about this than I do) that this article is sensationalism at its finest. This is a very preliminary study, not yet proven to be valid. And even if they were correct that a new strain is more infectious, it would be way too early to determine how effective masks and handwashing would be against it. This is the type of journalism that is not worthy of the name. Scare tactics. All this does is serve to scare people unduly, and cause those already skeptical about what is being reported in the press to become more skeptical, which in turn breeds the morons who think this is all a hoax so they don't follow any of the rules.
  3. Regarding your first point, the privately owned islands are indeed considered a foreign port as they are technically still part of their original country, at least to my understanding. Regarding your second paragraph, it is not those already at deaths door I am concerned about. Any of us, healthy or not, are at risk of being put at deaths door by Covid. And if I recall the CDC was in fact talking about requiring ventilators onboard. Will that be in the final agreement? No one yet knows, but it may well be.
  4. I think it is very possible, and reasonable, to expect cruise lines to seriously update their medical crisis facilities, including adding at least one ventilator. We can say it would not be expected for this one disease. At the same time, this one disease has shut down cruising worldwide for six months, and most cruising is still stopped. Also, if memory serves, that is what the CDC was requiring prior to a resumption of cruising - not sure what the ultimate requirements will be. Also, sad to say, this may not be the only disease ultimately requiring this. It could be 10 years before another pandemic, it could be 20 years, or it could be one or two years. I'm sure that don't want to ever be shut down for this long again. I also think there has been a boatload of knowledge (pun intended) that has been developed since the original attempt to quarantine passengers. With enhanced ventilation, enhanced procedures, and on and on, a quarantine now would be much different than the quarantine back in March.
  5. Unfortunately, while it is not real likely that someone can go from negative to deathly ill, it is certainly possible. I personally know someone who went from healthy to dead in less than 10 days (granted, she was more elderly and in a nursing home, but there are a lot of pretty senior people on cruises I have been on with Celebrity). i believe the document recommends no cruises longer than 10 nights to begin with. Now, that is not to say that the cruise lines will begin with those, but the recommendations do not limit to 3-5 day cruises. So within a couple of months, if no crisis occurs, it is very possible for the cruise lines to begin longer cruises. I guess we will need to wait and see.
  6. Have had more time to look over the whole document. One of my primary concerns is what happens if you get sick/test positive. According to the document (and this is the gist of it, not the exact wording), the cruise ships are supposed to disembark you ASAP at the nearest port, which is supposed to agree to accept you and somehow (it is not described) get you home. So let's say I catch the virus, and get really sick quickly. I get dumped in a foreign port in a third world country which may not have good medical facilities, and am too sick to fly home (even if by some miracle there was some transportation pre-arranged, which I'm sorry, but I can't see always happening). So there I am, perhaps deathly ill, put in this awful situation. How does that make sense to anyone?!?! And even if I am not deathly sick, what airlines will accept me onboard (and for that matter, SHOULD accept me onboard)??? I can't see them chartering flights for me! Certainly not on their dime. Am I misreading this? Thoughts?
  7. I agree with you 100%. No, it is not "fair" in some respects, and I certainly feel for those folks (although scientific studies have proved again and again that even for people with breathing difficulties mask wearing is almost always possible). At the same time, it is not fair to the other thousands of people onboard to be potentially exposed to the virus just because someone else has a medical condition. I'll go you one further in the potential flaming category. Very young children and infants cannot wear masks. Initially, they should not be allowed to be onboard either. I'm sure that will get some parents up in arms, but it is all about safety, not about individuals desire to vacation. Life is not fair and someone else's inability to wear a mask should not be allowed to endanger my life. I am certainly not without sympathy for people in that situation, but that is the situation the virus has put us all in.
  8. I certainly believe in washing your hands. But as all of the scientists out there now will tell you, most people do not catch the virus from touching something and then touching their face/eyes, etc.. Yes, that is one possible way to catch the virus but by far not the primary way of catching it. The primary way is through breathing in the particles in the air containing the virus. So yes, washing your hands is important, and will protect against more viruses than just Covid-19, but it is most definitely not the most important thing. I only wish it was.
  9. A lot of speculation not backed up by facts. How do you know cabin prices will be higher, much less double or more? They may actually be lower initially to entice people. How do you know dining will not be as satisfying? There will be fewer people in the dining room which might actually make the experience more satisfying rather than less! Getting on and off more "challenging"? How do you know that? It may be more staggered, but perhaps depending how they do it, it may very well be smoother with fewer lines and waiting around. Sounds good to me. And why is getting there "significantly more challenging"? Flying may be more risky than driving, if that is what you mean by challenging. Other than that I'm not sure what is more challenging, much less significantly more challenging. I guess I'm a glass half full kind of person. No one knows for sure yet, but some of the points you mention aren't givens at this point in time. Will cruising be different and not as much fun overall? Initially I would guess that would be true. But maybe better than you are expecting.
  10. I think you make some good points. But at the same time, even with many of the more common sense precautions I would take at home, I would encounter more exposure when traveling to a cruise ship. Riding in an airplane probably sits atop that list. I also would be getting more exposure than I would do in my day to day life, even following precautions like mask wearing and social distancing (which I always do), as I would by necessity need to interact more with others at hotels, taxis/ubers, and more eating at restaurants (albeit outside) than I normally would at home. Some of that could be mitigated by flying in the day of, but that has it's own risks unrelated to the virus. There just is no good answer unfortunately.
  11. But if it’s being compared to doing it pre-op as in the preceding post (and I’m not in the medical field but I assume that means prior to surgery?), do you not then ask the patient to self quarantine until the procedure? That’s what I’m being required to do for my upcoming colonoscopy. Nothing like that can be done for travelers. A huge difference in my opinion.
  12. As respects your last paragraph - we needed "experts" to tell us this??? This has all been discussed ad nauseum here on Cruise Critic🙂
  13. Unfortunately, the report only provides recommendations - it can't require anything. In fact, it mostly provides very vague recommendations at that (although the mask one is specific). I suspect for cruises out of the US, the CDC will definitely require masks. The key will be will the cruise lines actually enforce that policy, or be afraid to speak up to the passengers like they are for many other violations of so called recommendations.
  14. I guess there is no use further debating someone who thinks scientific facts are beliefs. Done
  15. I understand that. But IMHO the point of having these highly educated experts doing this would have been to come up with more detail about what is required. Specifically things such as passenger to doctor ratio, passenger to hospital bed ratio, specifics about medical equipment required, specifics about what is required in a quarantine area and how it needs to be managed. Truthfully, there is nothing here you and I could not have written - it is all common sense based on what we know about the virus now. Very disappointing I think. It leaves the cruise lines open to create a variety of very different plans for some very important things. I thought that is what this document was supposed to be designed to avoid. They did not need to pay experts to come up with generic, common sense "recommendations"
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