Mikamarii

We visited Moorea and Papeete in 2022 on ovation.  We scuba dive. They didn't have dives for us in Moorea but we did dive in Papeete. 

Shockingly, Papeete was pretty underwhelming and has been our least favorite dive site of the ones we have done. 

While I can't specifically say Moorea would be better for snorkeling, I would go for that one. Just touring around the island,  Moorea appears so much more natural and pristine. Far fewer boats/yachts parked and touring around the island. If we could return we would spend 100% of our time in Moorea. Think Oahu vs Maui. 

10 hours ago, notscb said:

If you're curious, the 2013 study linked was funded by the Meltzer Research fund, based in Norway, but was peer and IRB reviewed as it was conducted by the University of Bergen.

 

Everyone definitely has an opinion on this topic, but I think it's always important to consider what the data says followed by what the locals who are impacted by the tourism say.

 

@Biker19 also reminds us of an excellent point- Cruise lines are highly incentivized and have very obviously been working toward keeping folks spending onboard as much as possible which really backs up what the data currently shows. Personally, I was always the type of cruiser who looked forward to the destination (enjoying the ship, but the ship wasn't the destination per se). I'm sad to see the industry pivot toward the ship as the destination model.

Thank you. I didn't clue in that the survey was linked so I was able to read both of them. There's definitely some fascinating stuff. Some interesting points that I drew from the research (mainly the 2019 study). Again my interpretation only. 

-When accommodations and transportation factored in land travellers spend more. When that is removed the spending is roughly equal.

- cruise passanger spending is on par with camping visitors and people who visit family/friends. 

- When factoring in shore excursions purchased through the cruiseline they make the assumption that only 50% of that goes to Norway and rest to the cruiseline. I think that is lowballed. There is definitely markup but I don't think that it is that much. It also stated that the northernmost ports have almost 0 independently purchased shore excursions which then lowers overall spend. It makes it seem like this is the fault of the passanger; however, This is maybe because there are fewer services up there and tour operators have contracts with the cruiselines and don't sell as much privately. Regardless, this overall underestimates the amount spent if using a 50/50 distribution. 

- in this study, the contribution to the Norweigan economy by cruises does not include taxes/port fees/ and supplies purchased by the cruiseline itself. It's only a study on cruise passangers. I believe this undervalues cruises. On our missed Norway port we were refunded 31USD per person. A lowball estimate of 2000 passangers on our fjords cruise equates to 62000USD (roughly 665000NOK) lost to the Government for an 8hr visit.

While the survey is being honest and true to its study it does make it easy for anti-cruisers to interpret that cruise lines don't contribute as much. If I stay at a hotel for the night and spend 300 on a hotel and 30$ (10%) goes to taxes that number is included in the land based overall spending but my port fees aren't included in the cruise passanger spend (for this study)

- 92% of cruise passangers spend money while in port in Norway.

- spending by cruise tourists has declined. They estimate several different factors for this. A big one though is they admit that the latest survey is much more robust and interviewed more than twice as many people Than the previous study. 

- they say only 8% of cruise dollars is left in Norway vs 86% by land travellers. My opinion is this is a little misleading. They take the percentage based off total spend of the entire vacation and because cruises are expensive it makes the number seem small. It also makes the assumption that every dollar spent on cruise fare goes to the cruiseline which isn't true as previously mentioned by port fees.  If the cruise is 10k and I spend 1000k in ports they calculate that only 10% of the money goes to Norway. But 100% of that 1000k goes to Norway just like a land passanger and, as previously stated, hotels aside, spending is roughly equal. 

- People who cruise are more likely to return to Norway vs a land visitor

-Surveys that show locals against cruising also have a strong opposition to tourism in general. Largely because of perceived lack of spend by cruise passangers. This survey also mainly focuses on cruise passanger perception. So the numbers they use are thay the cruise passangers feel the port they visited was overcrowded not specifically the locals. 

Thank you for providing the link. It was a really interesting read. We do try to limit or spending on the cruise line excursions and book independently and spend more money directly in port. I appreciate some of the concerns with Cruising but also feel that it is improperly targeted as a form of travel. 

9 hours ago, notscb said:

The economic impact of cruise tourism in Norway has been studied in 2013 and in 2019  and what was surprising is that the overall spending of cruise ship passengers is actually lower than other tourists to the area (of which there are many- it's Norway). In the time since the 2013 study, cruise pax spending on land has decreased. I doubt the delay is truly revenue related, but more giving an opportunity for cruise lines to pivot to meet the new eco-regulations.

 

 

I've never really delved in to this and not an economist but it seems to come up often and lots of strong opinions on it. It always made me think about where these numbers come from.

I've been on some boards and panels for our local government and tourism is always on the agenda. Usually the drivers of these are hotel owners/representatives as it is such a massive industry. So the numbers are gonna be driven by their own interests. I think it's fair to say Hotel companies loathe the cruise industry. They make 0 dollars off it. If they are driving the research they will want to make the cruise industry look bad. They will also have a large representation (ie loudest voice) but there are many smaller voices that are getting drowned out as they probably love the money the cruise passangers bring. 

When looking at per person spending it makes sense that the land traveller will spend more. Hotels alone are 300+ a night and yes people eat 3 times a day and snacks. But is that spending going straight to the local economy? Most people are staying and eating at large chain hotels/restaurants/etc so how much of that money is staying in the economy compared to what a cruise passanger is spending.

When they calculate the spending do they include port taxes and fees? I think they usually cost 30-50USD person. So a family of four that doesn't even get of the ship is spending 120-200USD into the local government. I don't know what the actual number is but we recently missed a port and were refunded 31USD per person in port fees. 

The numbers would look different if it was averaged out per hour spent? A cruise passanger may, on average, may only spend 60-70 a day but that is usually within a 6-8hr period vs 24 hr period for a land guest. The land guest will still come out on top given the hotel costs but the numbers probably wouldn't look as drastic.

We recently left Nuuk, Greenland and was quite surprised at the size and amount of new construction going on in the area. Greenland cities can only be accessed by air or boat, not road. Not sure how many people are planning a week-long land vacation in Greenland but imagine the number is small. The money driving a chunk of this economy is likely from cruise passangers.

The one thing I try to keep in mind at each port is the jobs that it creates for locals. When we arrive we always see so many workers around, from info booths, to security, to port workers, bus drivers, etc. That has to be a big boost for the locals even though the individual worker isn't making money directly from the hand of the cruise passanger.

I do appreciate the fact that thousands of people are unloading on small towns doubling or tripling their population. I can see the frustration from locals. 

Ok sorry for the long winded post. It's always an interesting topic. Not an expert opinion by any stretch just some tuesday morning musings. Feel free to rip me apart. We love cruising and will continue to do so as long as we can. Whether by excursion, souvenir, or food, we always try to spend money in every port. We have also returned to a couple places for land based tours after visiting by cruise ship because we wanted more time there.  

Facinating stuff! Thanks all for taking the time to research the answer and offer an opinion. The AI response is pretty cool and informative. 

For reference ive attached the letter that was in our room. We have to drop it off at guest services by Sept 3 as we dont arrive at our first Canadian port until the 4th. Funnily enough we are meeting friends at each port but aren't bringing items off the ship. 

Ill report back if i have the opportunuty to speak to an agent. 

21 minutes ago, Middleager said:

Interesting question.

 

Since you're on a cruise port visit, you're not taking your luggages out to leave at that port, would it be necessary to declare the items bought but staying in your cabin, while you are in port?

 

If you declare everything, and say you almost reached your limit, but when you return to the ship then go to Boston, you're taking the stuff out of ship, to US.  Does that mean your purchase resets from 0 for the purpose of declaration to customs when you go back to Canada.

 

I'd like to know the answer too.

Ya we definitely arent bringing anything off the ship. On the letter in our room it says Canadian citizens must fill out portion for declared goods which is what is throwing us off since they would likely know we arent staying in Canada and continuing on to Boston. 

The decleration form only says the entitlements when "returning to canada" not whether or not we are bringing goods in. This is super nitpicky on the wording on our part. 

Im probably reading way to much in to this but still like to know for my own (and others benefit). If we get a chance to speak to a Border Agent ill ask and report back on what they say. 

24 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Opinion only. Make any necessary declaration at the first Canadian port. Take a picture of the declaration form in case there is an issue on the return flight. 

This is what we are going to do. I think if anything quirky arose we would have an easy time explaining it and wouldn't be punished over it (well i hope anyway) as we arent trying to circumvent anything. Its more of a procedural issue i suppose. 

We are Canadian citizens currently on a Transatlantic ending in Boston. We have two stops coming up in PEI and NS before ending in Boston. We have been away from Canada since Aug 06. 

This is our first time we've visited a Canadian port on any cruise. In our room this evening we had Canadian custom forms in our stateroom with a note saying it had to be filled out which brought up some questions for us regarding how we declare. I couldn't find the answer on the Travel Canada website. 

Do we fill out the form with everything we've purchased while away? We leave Canada and arrive in Boston a few days later. When we return to Canada on our flight do we fill out the customs form as if we have only been gone a couple days (ie since our stops in PEI and NS) and not declare the goods we already declared? Or do we declare everything again and fill out the second form as if we have been gone since Aug 06. Or do we not declare in our Canadian stops since we aren't bringing anything in to Canada? We haven't spent more than our allotted amount so not concerned about being over just want to make sure we do things properly and more curious now than anything. 

We are new Nexus members and don't want to do anything to jeopardize our status!

Hope that all made sense.

Thanks all. 

I dont think it was primarily  Royal that chose to stop sailing out of Amsterdam; rather the Amsterdam Govt. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2024/07/03/amsterdam-cruise-ships-cap-crowds/74294779007/

Likely part of the reason they were soft on the protesters. 

We're on the second leg of a B2B on Jewel. Would love to do fjords itinerary again and would be an extra bonus to not have to return to Amsterdam again. 

They are supposed to be loaded to your seapass card and just request to use it. It has been hit and miss for us with these. We did a B2B2B last year as platinum turning emerald. Our first cruise evertime i asked the server/bartender they said there were no discounts on the card even though we had never used one. 

The 2nd cruise i got it once while the third cruise got the 50% both times. 

We are currently on a cruise and both wife and i got the 50% off both times; however when i tried to get a gingerale for my kids (with their cards) i was told there was no coupons on it 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️. I'm sure i could press the issue just didnt want to make an issue for a couple dollars. We hit diamond after this cruise so shouldnt have to worry about it anymore. 

Just wanted to do a quick follow up as we were in Olden today. Hopefully our experience can help others. The sail in was beautiful. We also did Flåm this cruise. We preferred the Flåm sail in but this was wonderful to see if you have a chance to experience it. We did the Flåmsbana and zipline tour in Flåm. It was the highlight of our trip and highly suggest if you are physically able and dock in Flåm. 

Thanks to some previous advice we held off on buying skylift tickets. I checked weather leading up to our port day and it forcasted cloudy skies and lots of rain for our day. Sailing in it looked the forcast would hold true but we ended up having beautiful weather. It was cloudy but little to no rain and the sun poked through from time to time. 

Our ship tendered in and we were brought to Olden. The tender actually brought us closer to Olden than if we docked. Its true there isnt much do in the town of Olden. A couple shops and grocery stores but incredible views every way you look. 

At our tender spot there was tents set up for the skylift and other sightseeing journeys. They were charging 900k per person for shuttle and skylift at the pier. We asked if we could just pay for a shuttle in to Loen. The staff said they could but the only thing to do in Loen is the skylift so it wasnt really worth it to pay for a bus in as Olden had more shops. 

We opted not to do it as it was alot of money for four people and was a bit cloudy so we werent sure what we would get at the top.  We walked around town and found a map for a hike to "Hauren" mountain. It is 4km each way and took us about 1h15min up and about 45ish min down. Its not a hard hike but is a bit of a steep uphill walk all the way up and decline down. The views at the top were breathtaking and well worth it. I cant compare to the skylift views but seeing how our view was free it was well worth it plus we love hiking. Added that there were only a few others doing the hike so we had the top all to ourselves and got some great family photos. Ive added a few photos for reference. The last picture is of the road which covers almost the whole 4km. The final 200m to the top was an off road trail and was a little muddy today. 

Hope this helps others. 

55 minutes ago, hallasm said:

I will be very surprised if Jewel does not tender to Loen - this has been common practice in recent years - but there may be weather challenges.

Wait to buy your tickets until you know where you will land. There is ample capacity for both the shuttle and the cable car.
If it turns out that the weather is bad, it may be a good idea to wait to buy tickets.

Not much fun going to the top of the mountain if there is no view.

Sounds great thanks!

We always like to buy tickets in advance but from what im seeing the skylift doesnt really sell out. Not like the train in Flam!

Looking at the Port of Olden site again it looks like some ships have (Loen) next to it. So im assuming if it doesnt say that we will be docked or tendered in to Olden. 

Jewel gets in before another ship and Jewel is a bit larger so maybe we will be docked. 

I cant remember where i saw we would be tendered now. Ive been lookong at so many port websites. 

2 hours ago, hallasm said:

Thanks for the update - yes, I can actually see that there is a tender position in Olden. @Mikamarii which ship and date?

We're on Jewel of the seas. We will be be in Olden on August 19th 

17 minutes ago, hallasm said:

Tendering is in Loen just next to the Skylift.

Perfect thanks!

On 5/31/2023 at 5:28 AM, hallasm said:

For Olden make sure to be up early and enjoy the scenic sailing through the deep fjords. Be at upper decks at sunrise.

Also check if your ship dock in Olden or is tendering to Loen.

Hello,

We will be Olden in a couple weeks. I’ve confirmed through the port website that we will be tendering. Just to confirm is Loen the only arrival dock for Tenders or could they still drop us off in Olden? It doesn’t specify anything on the port website just that we will be tendering. 

We want to do the Skylift and just trying to determine if we should purchase in advance and pay for the shuttle from Olden.

I read the article and my immediate thought was.....cruise ships don't wait they just promise to get you back to the ship if excursion booked through them ....

But NCLs website literally states "never get left behind. If a Norweigen organized tour is late, the ship will wait for you"

Pretty bold statement considering any number of things could potentially go wrong. I couldn't find an additional fine print so maybe it is buried in there. NCL did cover all of their out of pocket expenses though.

Royal's states that they will get you back to the ship not that the ship will wait. 

Ive been tracking internet prices for two upcoming cruises (did it as well for 2 previous ones last year) what I found is that regardless of the sale the price was within about 5-10$. We have a 12 nighter coming up this summer that I’ve been tracking since we booked in October. Plenty of sales in the last 6 months. Lowest I’ve seen for 1 person/2 devices is $506 cdn…highest has been $513 Cdn. 

2 hours ago, Biker19 said:

I assume you meant Odyssey.

oops you are correct....not sure what I was thinking there

4 hours ago, cruzintheworld said:

Can anyone who actually did this on RCCL tell me what your experience was? Thanks so much. If it matters, we are all US citizens and we are leaving from Port Canaveral. Thank you!!

We recently did a back to back on Quantum this past December in Ft Lauderdale. Met and waited in 270, got our new sea pass cards and waited until the ship was empty. They then escorted us off where we scanned out of the first cruise. Waited in a small waiting area off the ship (I think they were waiting for the remaining passengers to clear out of the port area as to not confuse us with any stragglers). They then walked us all to a customs agent who did their thing then they walked us back up to the waiting area. Waited about 5 minutes or so then they took our group and let us scan and get back on the ship. From the time they started walking us off the ship to the time we got back on was about 45 minutes tops.

Empathy and sympathy are two very different things. I empathize with their situation, but I most certainly do not feel sorry for someone missing a ship.

You can ask your stateroom attendant as soon as you see him/her. 

We usually book a separate room for our kids. Last year on a b2b we had the beds together on the first leg but they wanted them separated on the second leg. Asked our stateroom attendant and when he was cleaning the room that day he split the beds for us.

26 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Although this is controversial, if you use the vouchers for your drinks, there is no need to tip. Tip seems to be included as part of your benefit as others have posted. If you want to tip in addition, feel free to do so. However it is not obligatory.

Ya that is what I figured....There are 4 of us that will hit diamond for the 2nd cruise.....4 drinks a day x 4 people x 16 days is a lot to the point I would feel awful if they got nothing from those drinks haha. 

awesome thanks! Just wanted to make sure we didn't walk away assuming they got something 

I apologize if I start a tipping thread here....not my intention

We will hit diamond on the first leg of a b2b this summer (already plan on going to the loyalty desk to have it set up for the second leg)

When we order a drink does it include a gratuity for the bartender/server or is that charged separately?

 We use the scotiabank passport infinite visa. I love it. We used to have an RBC Usbank visa but traded that one in for this one since we can use it world wide. 

Like previously said it also has insurance benefits and includes 6 lounge passes per year which we love using. Not all airports have a lounge available but we've generally been able to find one. For the most part, its the plaza premium network. 

The point system is through scene+. It works out to 1PT=$0.01 if redeeming for travel or groceries. The redemption valhe isnt that great if redeeming for straight statement credit.  We primarily shop at Sobeys which is on the Scene program so lots of opportunites for bonus pts. 

We usually redeem for travel. Can be done right on the app and shows up as a credit within a couple days of requesting. 

Im very happy with this card.