Cap_D

That Celebrity would place the minibar items under the bed is ridiculous for many reasons. But, I also wouldn't want a minibar item that was under a bed. I do think at times when someone has received an extra bottle of XYZ, and stuff of that nature, it's leftovers that the enterprising crew member gives to the next guest. But, storing alcohol under the bed should be a no no, including because then guest may be doing it for reasons other than wanting the cooler. And, for revenue, they should want to keep a good inventory. (Which apparently they were not if minibars were not charged when / if they should have been. Kind of thought it was a way to make passengers feel like they got a perk).

Yup. Keeps the TAs in business, and allows for all sorts of false freebies, and incentives.

And, should add may be entirely wrong and out of line, but the new President has not come across as a sophisticated brand ambassador type or hasn't been given that training, and script. Rather, behind the scenes and not in tune with the customer they've had.

She's not a hospitality person or marketer and it shows in the video from the President's Cruise and handling of all the changes. She was fortunate that they had arranged to fly in Captain Kate to the President's Cruise. As for the marketing, it's just one BS promo after the same, sliced a different way, while the overall price is inching up, insults and cutbacks are growing, and foot in mouth surveys will become the norm. Meanwhile, all of the bookings and reputation is based on the LLP era. The halo of an empowered crew first leads to happy passengers, elevated ship for everyone, influencer videos, impressions of what the Retreat should be, crew to passenger ratios, culture, design choices, whimsy, pricing that didn't become annoying while onboard, and so on, plus past positive experiences, that is what was selling the full ships of today. Meanwhile there were other retirements or layoffs / attrition proximate to LLP departure that probably also were partially due to their work about to be undone. Was on an E class ship when the announcement was made. Small sample, but we didn't get the warm and fuzzies when the topic was mentioned to people that took pride in what they were providing (and built) during chit chat.

They must have let go their marketing and consumer PR staff. I do think RC did a so so job at socializing new MDR menus because they owned up to it, and seemed to even encourage press. But months later to do the survey is a head scratcher, and not indicative of a company that wants to present itself as working day and night to give the best vacation experience. Meanwhile, Celebrity is operating in an entirely different universe where they went to the Jos A Banks school of advertising (urgency and same price different gimmick) while inching higher, the Captains are a comedy act or aspirational traveler (see anything from Captain Kate during her 3 months off, still on the ship, doing excursions and unboxings), and there's nothing much about the onboard product. While in reality, they are doing all of the cutbacks, etc.

Well said!

TBD. And, still further out in time than any trip/experience we've had planned in advance.

This is awesome. We have done something similar for selecting specialty dining days. For the benefit of anyone coming to this thread as a new cruiser: While we are not vegetarians, the vegetarian options are helpful as a side dish for the table. Otherwise the entrees often don't come with any material vegetable.

The changes make sense if they don't care, and want to "find" revenue. Fully agree. But, they really should come clean and own it. The lack of price transparency for cruisers, perhaps has always been an issue, but really gets compounded when everything is intentionally on the decline (and passengers can't exactly go somewhere else for a cookie that is worth $2, a different store, etc.). On land, I've left hotels, restaurants (with paying), changed itineraries, and more to have the experience desired at the time and place chosen. So, with cruising there's a degree of trust in the selection that is required, and causes the extra degree of criticism.

Nothing comparable on E-Class. Far less passenger accessible fridges in the lounge. It would take a long time to get anything comparable since staff would have to go to the back, if they're allowed to once someone has a drink or two already. And, pre staff cutbacks, the retreat staff could rarely keep up with the demand from guests seeking to lounge. So, anyone looking to grab and go will just add to the log jam.

If Celebrity actually cared to do this, they'd have someone trained to do it. They probably let that person go last week. I think this goes to cutbacks in service. Leadership from the top has through actions made it clear that its all about selling, and not about meeting or exceeding expectations.

The games Celebrity is playing, nickel and diming, canceling entire seasons with no price protection, deceptive advertising, and so on. They are no longer selling a high quality product as compared to the number of passengers and size of the ships, but a bait and switch and then some, especially for Retreat, without even owning it. They seem to be spineless, no desire to back-up their changes with rational explanations and roll out, and a tone deafness to common sense even if they want to or must make even more profit per passengers than ever before. Charge a fair price for the product being offered (and make clear what that is), but don't keep changing the offering and eliminating the ability of their once high ratio to passenger crews' ability to make peoples vacations worth it. Their ethos has shifted, and they have abandoned guest satisfaction and being competitive with other cruise lines with similar sized ships. Their goal is entirely and only built around extracting as much money as they can, any way they can invent to accomplish it. Whether that's stops where they count every dollar as revenue, onboard upsells, Effy and scam art galleries, non-brand champagne, and so on. It seems that whatever they can think of, they'll do, once someone is booked and, especially, and once they are onboard. We're at their mercy. Most of us have gone along with it, chasing a good experience, or rationalizing changes. Celebrity has no apparent compass that points toward customer satisfaction, it's neither premium and transparent, nor is it a value proposition. And, if they were transparent, then probably fewer people would book. We'd sample somewhere else that is trying to build market share, reputation, and more, motivated out of a desire to become established. The result is a kind of sadness, negativity, and if someone take a step back, the discovery that no one can even explain clearly what it is the cruise includes. Statements like "don't worry," "the app is always wrong," "I get a free bag of laundry because I sailed 80x," and so on. Celebrity may have once appealed to identity, nostalgia, a positive experience, a favorite bar tender, but all evidence suggests the company just doesn't care. There's not one example anyone has provided among so many threads and posts about cutbacks and what it once was. Cruises should be convenient, easy to justify and book, easy to enjoy, and easy to look back on as well worth the money and time. It is becoming anything but. Celebrity has a chance to change all of this, this new President can come out and talk straight (instead of axe throwing with influencers and crew, and a flown in Captain Kate), their CEO can go on CNBC and thank their customers and shareholders instead of saying we just want to fleece everyone, their shipbuilder can retire and let someone with common sense use their VR studio to realize the Celebrity Suite interior doors lets light in, that the infinite veranda isn't well thought out, their CMO can cut out the false promotions and actually market the experience and product, and more. And, they could start by restoring the Butler service, adding some functionality to their app and a cordless phone in the room, having a better "included" cookie, actually having the non-alcoholic drinks stocked so the crew doesn't run around looking for them, QC-ing room service, coming clean about whether vapping is allowed or not now and 2 years from now, and so on. Much of what's complained about is Celebrity's own making, and probably intentional. But, they have to decide, and so will potential customers.

I don't think Celebrity or Royal Caribbean care or they didn't advertise as much this year in the magazine. At least, at the Royal Caribbean brand they publicly acknowledged the changes to their food and beverage program. Celebrity hides behind Captain Kate, a ridiculous Presidents Cruise, and instagrammable new ships.

But, it also becomes a new or different experience for all passengers. Constantly having to think about prices and comparing contrasting what is included to what price is being charged. So, it's no longer the feeling that someone figured out how to provide a satisfying vacation with a profit for their efforts, a big part of which is to keep us fed and entertained, to one where the guest is constantly placed in a position to question whether they are getting value and what was marketed. By saying the cookie is $2, I now wonder if the other cookies supposedly offered as included are any good. The better approach if they care about the experience, is they have good cookies, charge a fair price, budget well, and then one doesn't have to wonder. Same for the fake Gelato. And in my case, I would have a premium beverage package in Retreat that gets little use and is part of the fare, although we know the cash price, but still will be asked to pay for the cookie. It's insulting and lame. I now wonder why I can't trade the bottles of booze I'm not going to drink for the cookie. Better yet, what actually is included in the fare? What are we actually paying for? The more they put prices next to things the more it's apparent that the Celebrity illusion as it was, did make for a nicer pre, actual, and post vacation experience. Now, Celebrity makes it hard to view the guests as anything but profit centers to be exploited and toyed with. That's very different from what we had experienced in 2022 when we took a shot at trying a cruise. We paid a good amount, and got a good amount in return. We did it again, but now are left asking why bother. If they think their precious Gordon Food Service cookie or lemon bar (no evidence they charging for those yet, but they will be next) is worth $2 and will give me unlimited booze (that may be next too) then why bother if they are going to also make it seem like they are using us for a game. Plus, one can't get off the ship to find a better cookie. Also, at some point, and maybe it's already past, taking a Celebrity Cruise becomes like staying at a Westin when they add all of the litter for upsells to their rooms. Stickers and signs everywhere promoting upsells. And, then the entire experience becomes one of chasing the included items, judging the unincluded items, and not focusing on rest or relaxation.

As long as the vloggers, travel agent suck ups and Instagram people continue to promote Celebrity is something amazing and infallible, the truth of how they're treating their customers as fungible will be drowned out. The content that's been produced over the last year and a half is essentially deceptive at this point, but will live on for a while.

That they even considered it, and polled it reveals they have no idea about how to generate goodwill or hospitality.

Butlers were and are one of the last lines of defense or only access point to what is available in the ship but not accessible to a guest. Intercepting milk with lactose because the room service has no QC or management, locating the vitamin water that is onboard and part of the drink package, but never readily available, helping stock water (so a guest doesn't need to carry around a handful of waters), working the system to provide a dessert that meets a dietary need, remembering a preference, and so on. They were a bit of glue and a face for what could otherwise be a faceless experience that is left to corporate parameters and chance (e.g., that anyone else is paying attention). When posters talk about Celebrity and past experiences, it's examples like the ones above that have created repeat customers and satisfaction, and cost the company very little compared to finding a new customer to churn through. It's also what makes the Retreat worth a premium, as it has provided a hedge against a potentially bad experience with no options for # of days. We had read about it when considering our first booking, and experienced it first hand on our cruises. Now if anyone looks or starts to hear about any of this, the impression will be entirely different. Corporate doesn't seem to care, and it seems anyone servicing a Retreat guest will be incentivised to do the minimum, and maybe penalized if they go above and beyond for customer satisfaction, etc.

Lemon Squares are available at the Gordon Food Service store in Hollywood, Florida. How does this compare to what is available on the ships? https://gfsstore.com/products/728012/

This would be unfortunate. Lavazza is a good quality bean and the coffee (milk) bar as part of the ship is a significant amenity. And, it's kind of nice to have something a little different.

Depending on their supplier, but here's one they use frequently, the cookie costs 37.4 cents. https://gfsstore.com/products/675504/ If using frozen dough and baking onboard the price drops to 16.6 cents from a frequent supplier. https://gfsstore.com/products/113125/ The likelihood anyone is mixing flour, sugar, eggs, fat, salt, etc. from scratch is very low. A single Mrs. Fields chocolate chip cookie trails for $3.19 at some malls, and a single cookie at Whole Foods is $1.50 - $2 depending on location, but less if you buy a package.

What exactly is included? And, to the poster that will say "don't worry you won't go hungry on Celebrity," or that "Celebrity can change anything at anytime," go ahead. But the changes, and this change is ridiculous.

What other options have a ship wide mindset of doing what they can, with what they have available? At least from a Retreat vs anything else perspective, the key appeal has been having crew or an apparatus to deal with guest requests and relations issues in a manner that is holistic and defaults to pleasing the customer. Any thoughts on who does that as well as Celebrity of a few months ago or 2019? Not just a Butler, but overall being on top of things .. We've only sailed twice, in retreat, in 2022 and 2023. Issues we had were addressed, and while some were avoidable and a team could maybe help (as would a cordless phone or app to use services), the reason to rebook or praise was always the principled intent of the crew from the steward, butler, Luminae team, to the Hotel Director, F&B director, etc. Very personal, and always helpful to defaulting if they had or could do it, they'd do their best and were generally working with decent stuff. (That seems what most positive sentiments about Celebrity have always been from reading the posts, terrific Luminae waiters and maitre ds, crew like Cranston (have not had the pleasure), the person that goes to the other end of the ship to find a bottle of wine instead of giving up, decent sheets, the cool hand towel at a port, remembering our young child's name and aiming to cater to him no differently than anyone else, etc. ). Also, anything on Princess or is it just bleh? Would love to hear if anyone has experience with Princess current suite / signature product as the new Sun Princess looks interesting. That said, very skeptical about anything owned by Carnival or with the public track record of Princess sailing on the West Coast where it seems like it's one issue after another related to the crew, cleanliness, and ship. There's something to crew that seem to care and I don't get that vibe from Princess' marketing or public persona.

The Butler was one person that was synced to you vs a generic system that continues to only be accessible by corded phone or, if the Retreat Concierges remain, in person contact after vying for their attention. They enabled Retreat customers to access food and services that would have otherwise not been available or taken too long to be convenient on a vacation. Technology, a coffee maker, and some other changes could help improve the situation, but that assumes Celebrity wants people to access food and services. A cordless phone that works ship wide and on location delivery is available on other cruise lines like NCL Haven, and as we have already about first hand experiences on MSC where regardless of room the Butlers are seemingly ubiquitous.

Exactly. On Beyond, the retreat sundeck is a different menu compared to Luminae (with occupancy of about 172 guests) or the Cosmopolitan (also not showing lunch), outside, etc.

Exactly why boards like this are so important. Before I commit to vacationing on a boat (at sea) with prepayment, I would like to know generally what I'm going to be getting or I may go somewhere else setting aside contractual obligations and reservations. And, if the cruise fare doesn't include the 4 lunches previously included, then that is relevant and material to my decision, and possibly others, too. And, considering this community is a good source of information, and observations, and Celebrity is not or conflicts with its own information, plus has the reservation to change, it's worth sharing what we all know. Similarly, I'm very appreciative of those that do share what they see and experience. And, at some point, the effort and angst, and actual post reservation service and product changes, will lead me or others to simply opt out of cruising.